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by **obiken** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 1:37 am

A serious quad injury for JA. River, Cbob, ASHF, is it not time to declare him an official Hawkshack fan bust??

by **Aseahawkfan** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 2:05 am

Injury bust.

It's always going to be a bad value trade. Trading two firsts for a safety is just a bad idea before it is even done.

Jamal tried. Much like Penny wanted to get back on the field. Jamal has had injury problems since he came here. I keep wondering if it is the way he is being asked to play, his conditioning here, or he's just snake bit.

It was a bad trade. Could have probably found a safety to do the job just as well with one of those first round picks. But Pete gets shiny toy disease sometimes and sells John on bad trades.

by **obiken** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 2:07 am

This is why ASHF that I think owners should balk like hell before paying a defensive player a guaranteed contract.

by **RiverDog** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 4:44 am

Except for the play he got hurt on, he wasn't looking very good anyway, with several missed tackles and an INT that sailed through his hands. He's more than just a walking pile of Ace bandages, he's a bust, period. The Broncos racked up 433 yards of total offense against a defense that he's supposed to be the lynchpin to.

by **tarlhawk** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 6:22 am

Surprise...surprise (not)...we win a very close game of turnovers and yet you still find time to comment on the loss of a KEY component of our defenses ability to impact highly mobile QB. Always opportunity to take and not give...such temptations. We take by making pot shots at anothers misfortunes instead of giving our prayers and best wishes to a player who gave his all on the field...he didn't get an interception? So what? Diggs had an even easier interception go down his body eluding his hands...but they made plays to be in the right spot for an interception...and that offers the opportunity for a quick turnover while still busting up the pass play. So easy to see as an observer "what should have happened" Russell is very tough to defend for anyone and our victory was actually an escape...we dodged a bullet as a team ...but losing Adams is a "big deal" in spite of naysayers...sorry if I offended anyone in my restraint of saying more but you kinda struck a nerve...

by **RiverDog** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 6:28 am

tarlhawk wrote:Surprise...surprise (not)...we win a very close game of turnovers and yet you still find time to comment on the loss of a KEY component of our defenses ability to impact highly mobile QB. Always opportunity to take and not give...such temptations. We take by making pot shots at anothers misfortunes instead of giving our prayers and best wishes to a player who gave his all on the field...he didn't get an interception? So what? Diggs had an even easier interception go down his body eluding his hands...but they made plays to be in the right spot for an interception...and that offers the opportunity for a quick turnover while still busting up the pass play. So easy to see as an observer "what should have happened" Russell is very tough to defend for anyone and our victory was actually an escape...we dodged a bullet as a team ...but losing Adams is a "big deal" in spite of naysayers...sorry if I offended anyone in my restraint of saying more but you kinda struck a nerve...

The thread was about Adams, not Diggs. Start one about Diggs and I'll take some pot shots at him, too.

And of course, we all wish Jamal our best towards a speedy recovery. But that should be implied, a sentiment that all us regulars understand without our having to say it.

by **curmudgeon** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 7:08 am

Fra-jil-lay……

by **Hawktawk** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 7:27 am

No Tari has it .find the negative in a great win .

by **RiverDog** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 7:53 am

Hawktawk wrote:No Tari has it .find the negative in a great win .

Like I said, the thread title was "Adams". There's other threads circulating that has plenty of positive remarks and comments about the game being a great win. It's pretty difficult to be positive about this subject.

by **govandals** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 8:22 am

After watching another pass bounce off his facemask, I thought, jeez, I'm so done with this guy, just put in Ryan Neal. Well, after another Jamal injury, Pete put in Josh Jones, I didn't see a tangible difference in the defense after that. I'm fine if Jamal doesn't play again this year, let our young secondary take their lumps and learn and grow. I think he gets cut this offseason, anyway, as the negative cap hit is somewhere in the $4-6 million range.

by **RiverDog** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 8:30 am

govandals wrote:After watching another pass bounce off his facemask, I thought, jeez, I'm so done with this guy, just put in Ryan Neal. Well, after another Jamal injury, Pete put in Josh Jones, I didn't see a tangible difference in the defense after that. I'm fine if Jamal doesn't play again this year, let our young secondary take their lumps and learn and grow. I think he gets cut this offseason, anyway, as the negative cap hit is somewhere in the $4-6 million range.

Yeah, that's one of the big problems I've had with Adams since he came to us. He's not a ball hawk, rather a one trick pony.

by **mykc14** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 9:39 am

The worst trade in Seahawks history gets even worse. Just when you hoped that maybe there would be a chance at redeeming some of the value from that trade and subsequent stupid contract he gets hurt. Unfortunately we can't really cut him until 2024, and even then it would cost us $14 mil in dead cap (saving us $9 mil). We are stuck with this albatross for a long time, hopefully we get something out of that contract eventually.

by **govandals** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 9:59 am

mykc14 wrote: Unfortunately we can't really cut him until 2024, and even then it would cost us $14 mil in dead cap (saving us $9 mil). We are stuck with this albatross for a long time, hopefully we get something out of that contract eventually.

Agreed, no way he is here in 2024, especially at a $9 mil savings. I think they will easily swallow the $4-6 mil negative cap for 2023, though.

by **TriCitySam** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 2:40 pm

Bad luck. Wish him a speedy recovery. He can play and was not an injury guy in college or with the Jets, just really unfortunate.

by **RiverDog** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 3:50 pm

TriCitySam wrote:Bad luck. Wish him a speedy recovery. He can play and was not an injury guy in college or with the Jets, just really unfortunate.

Yeah, he was snake bit.

However, injuries were just one problem with Adams. We never had a role for him in our defense. Even Pete admitted that they were still figuring out to use him a year after we made the trade.

by **RiverDog** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 4:11 pm

No surprise here. Adams will need surgery to repair his knee. He could be out the rest of the season:

Seahawks safety Jamal Adams will need surgery to repair a knee injury suffered in Monday night’s 17-16 win over Denver, coach Pete Carroll said Tuesday morning on his weekly radio show on Seattle Sports 710 AM.

“Yeah, he’s hurt,” Carroll said. “He hurt his knee. He’s going to have to get some work on that. I don’t know the extent of that yet, but I know it’s serious.”

Carroll didn’t give a specific timeline for Adams, but the injury appears as if it could be one to put his season in danger. Seattle will likely soon put Adams on Injured Reserve (teams no longer have to declare short-term or long-term IR but any player going on IR has to miss at least four games).

The injury marks the third time in Adams’ three seasons with the Seahawks he has suffered a significant injury to cause him to miss games. Adams played just 12 games last year after having shoulder surgery in December, and also played just 12 games in his first season with the Seahawks due to a groin injury. Adams has also suffered several injuries to his fingers that caused him to have the middle and ring finger on his left hand fused in the offseason.

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/sea ... roll-says/

by **obiken** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 5:51 pm

tarlhawk wrote:Surprise...surprise (not)...we win a very close game of turnovers and yet you still find time to comment on the loss of a KEY component of our defenses ability to impact highly mobile QB. Always opportunity to take and not give...such temptations. We take by making pot shots at anothers misfortunes instead of giving our prayers and best wishes to a player who gave his all on the field...he didn't get an interception? So what? Diggs had an even easier interception go down his body eluding his hands...but they made plays to be in the right spot for an interception...and that offers the opportunity for a quick turnover while still busting up the pass play. So easy to see as an observer "what should have happened" Russell is very tough to defend for anyone and our victory was actually an escape...we dodged a bullet as a team ...but losing Adams is a "big deal" in spite of naysayers...sorry if I offended anyone in my restraint of saying more but you kinda struck a nerve...

Wow Tary, I never even realized that Diggs was hurt, I promise. Love the Hawks, River hit it on the head I never cheer for injuries, ours or theirs, to say I wish JAdams the best goes without saying. Was it a big win, no not for me. it was the worse win of my Hawks fan career. Been a Hawks fan for 46 years, during a 2-14 season all we had to cheer about was Tez making DPOTY. However, Russ made us relevant in the NW for 10 years. Before that Seattle had one title for the Sonics in 78-79, a 1/2 a title for the Huskies in 91, and the replay of a divisional win over the Yankees that is starting to get nauseating. Russ put us on prime time 47 times, only the Cowboys had more. All the other times 17, and it was mostly because of the other team. Sorry if you and Hawk Talk want to dance around the room over THE most bitter/sweet win of my lifetime, knock yourself out. The point going forward was Jamal is a bust and their is no accountability on Pete Carroll. Since Paul Allen got sick he has been on a power grab, and it wont stop till we get an owner in 5 years. Sorry if any of this offends you, I think your a good fan. Hawk Talk, not so much.

by **obiken** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 5:55 pm

The thread was about Adams, not Diggs. Start one about Diggs and I'll take some pot shots at him, too.

And of course, we all wish Jamal our best towards a speedy recovery. But that should be implied, a sentiment that all us regulars understand without our having to say it.

River, when was Diggs hurt? How did I miss that one? Like I said on my main response thread above, I really did not know he was hurt River.

by **Aseahawkfan** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 6:22 pm

obiken wrote:Wow Tary, I never even realized that Diggs was hurt, I promise. Love the Hawks, River hit it on the head I never cheer for injuries, ours or theirs, to say I wish JAdams the best goes without saying. Was it a big win, no not for me. it was the worse win of my Hawks fan career. Been a Hawks fan for 46 years, during a 2-14 season all we had to cheer about was Tez making DPOTY. However, Russ made us relevant in the NW for 10 years. Before that Seattle had one title for the Sonics in 78-79, a 1/2 a title for the Huskies in 91, and the replay of a divisional win over the Yankees that is starting to get nauseating. Russ put us on prime time 47 times, only the Cowboys had more. All the other times 17, and it was mostly because of the other team. Sorry if you and Hawk Talk want to dance around the room over THE most bitter/sweet win of my lifetime, knock yourself out. The point going forward was Jamal is a bust and their is no accountability on Pete Carroll. Since Paul Allen got sick he has been on a power grab, and it wont stop till we get an owner in 5 years. Sorry if any of this offends you, I think your a good fan. Hawk Talk, not so much.

It is tough watching Russ in another uniform. I don't usually get too invested in players, but Russ is one of those guys I look at and wonder how they even exist. I'm so used to athletes and celebrities in general being people who aren't particularly admirable or who live in a very selfish, egocentric way. Russ is a super busy guy leading an NFL QB life married to a pop star QB who still takes the time to be very active in his community, take some time for other kids while raising his own, isn't doing drugs or getting car accidents or cheating on his wife, or getting himself into scandals. He works hard, puts everything into football and working to be a good human rising up from the bad times and being thankful for the good times. There just aren't many people like that in the world. I tend to appreciate that mentality when I see it because it's so rare.

When the worst insult I see tossed a guy's way is he's corny or square, you must be living your life in a good way when even the rumor mill can't drum up much on you.

by **RiverDog** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 6:43 pm

The thread was about Adams, not Diggs. Start one about Diggs and I'll take some pot shots at him, too.

And of course, we all wish Jamal our best towards a speedy recovery. But that should be implied, a sentiment that all us regulars understand without our having to say it.

obiken wrote:River, when was Diggs hurt? How did I miss that one? Like I said on my main response thread above, I really did not know he was hurt River.

Seattle Seahawks safety Quandre Diggs underwent surgery and is facing a recovery period of 4-5 months, according to NFL Network's Ian Rapoport.

Seahawks head coach Pete Carroll confirmed Diggs suffered a broken fibula and dislocated ankle in the team's 38-30 season-finale victory over the Arizona Cardinals.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/100 ... 0Cardinals.

by **obiken** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 7:16 pm

RiverDog wrote:Seahawks head coach Pete Carroll confirmed Diggs suffered a broken fibula and dislocated ankle in the team's 38-30 season-finale victory over the Arizona Cardinals.[/i]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/100 ... 0Cardinals.

Damn it River! We are starting to look like the old Hawks!! I didnt realize that! He was a damn good player! Unlike Jamal, I really liked him!

by **RiverDog** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 7:32 pm

Yeah, Diggs was injured in our last game of the 2021 season. There's no reason to believe that he hasn't fully recovered, but my point was that with so many question marks from January through this summer and after we had traded away our franchise QB, it wasn't reasonable to conclude that we'd improve significantly on our 7-10 record.

by **Aseahawkfan** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 7:42 pm

Diggs looks back at full strength near as I can tell.

by **obiken** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 7:57 pm

Aseahawkfan wrote:It is tough watching Russ in another uniform. I don't usually get too invested in players, but Russ is one of those guys I look at and wonder how they even exist. I'm so used to athletes and celebrities in general being people who aren't particularly admirable or who live in a very selfish, egocentric way. Russ is a super busy guy leading an NFL QB life married to a pop star QB who still takes the time to be very active in his community, take some time for other kids while raising his own, isn't doing drugs or getting car accidents or cheating on his wife, or getting himself into scandals. He works hard, puts everything into football and working to be a good human rising up from the bad times and being thankful for the good times. There just aren't many people like that in the world. I tend to appreciate that mentality when I see it because it's so rare.

When the worst insult I see tossed a guy's way is he's corny or square, you must be living your life in a good way when even the rumor mill can't drum up much on you.

Spot on ASHF as always, I just dont get Hawktalk's negativity on Russ. He made The NW relevant for 10 years! We had one Title with the Blazers, a good run with Kelly but no cigar, and I already covered WA's history, sorry with RW, were relevant, now we are not. Can you imagine AF, IF GB would have tried to trade Rogers 5 years ago, to the Browns, really the Browns? He would have went off!! He would have went crying right to the media in a heartbeat! I don't see how RW held it together! Brady, OMGosh, he would have went right to Kraft and said I want outta here, because that's exactly what he did with the Garoppolo situation. Eliminate 116 yards in penalties, two fumbles at the goal line, and we are having a vastly different conversation. I dont put any human on a pedestal, but Russ was as good as they got for me.

by **c_hawkbob** » Wed Sep 14, 2022 7:19 am

When the worst insult I see tossed a guy's way is he's corny or square, you must be living your life in a good way when even the rumor mill can't drum up much on you

Well, dresses too sharp and has a too hot a wife as well ...

I'm in complete agreement with you on Russ Asea. Sure was glad Hackett didn't let him go for that 4th and 5, he's made for those situations. He'll have more opportunities though and Hackett has probably learned his lesson. We needed the win more than he needed another hero moment.

by **RiverDog** » Wed Sep 14, 2022 7:27 am

c_hawkbob wrote:Sure was glad Hackett didn't let him go for that 4th and 5, he's made for those situations. He'll have more opportunities though and Hackett has probably learned his lesson. We needed the win more than he needed another hero moment.

There's no "probably" about it. Hackett has already admitted that his decision to try the FG was a mistake. He pretty much had to, as according to ESPN, the odds of converting on 4th and 5 are 48% and his kicker had made just one of 4 attempts from 60+.

Cbob, you've watched a lot of football. Have you ever seen a worse decision with the game on the line as the one that Hackett made when he decided to attempt the FG? I was trying to think of one and drew a blank.

by **c_hawkbob** » Wed Sep 14, 2022 7:45 am

Well there was this short pass over the middle from the one yard line in a SB game when there was Marshawn Lynch as the obvious option I seem to remember.

The importance of the game in question is what makes that the worse coaching decision.

by **govandals** » Wed Sep 14, 2022 8:56 am

The Hackett decision was far worse.

by **govandals** » Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:04 am

Didn't Belichick go for a fourth and short deep in his own territory against the Colts a few years back?? I think Brady thew a pass in the flat to a RB who got stuffed, Colts took over and scored shortly after. BB took a lot of heat for that.

by **NorthHawk** » Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:25 am

govandals wrote:Didn't Belichick go for a fourth and short deep in his own territory against the Colts a few years back?? I think Brady thew a pass in the flat to a RB who got stuffed, Colts took over and scored shortly after. BB took a lot of heat for that.

Apparently Hackett is getting grilled in Denver. They paid close to $200M for Wilson then chose to value a kicker over him when it counted.
Why did you trade a lot for him if not to use him when it counts? Not a good look.

by **c_hawkbob** » Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:29 am

govandals wrote:Didn't Belichick go for a fourth and short deep in his own territory against the Colts a few years back?? I think Brady thew a pass in the flat to a RB who got stuffed, Colts took over and scored shortly after. BB took a lot of heat for that.

Not with a SB on the line. Context is everything.

by **RiverDog** » Wed Sep 14, 2022 10:03 am

c_hawkbob wrote:Well there was this short pass over the middle from the one yard line in a SB game when there was Marshawn Lynch as the obvious option I seem to remember.

The importance of the game in question is what makes that the worse coaching decision.

That's not exactly the types of situation that I was thinking of.

I can remember a few coaches, prior to be given the option to defer, choosing to go on defense when they won the coin flip, but that's been decades ago. I can't remember the names or specific game, but I remember a coach opting to kick deep (vs. KC maybe?) rather than a squib kick at the end of a game of which the subsequent return put their opponent in FG range. Those are the types of decisions I was thinking of vs. play selection. But I do understand your point about the consequences.

by **RiverDog** » Wed Sep 14, 2022 10:07 am

govandals wrote:Didn't Belichick go for a fourth and short deep in his own territory against the Colts a few years back?? I think Brady thew a pass in the flat to a RB who got stuffed, Colts took over and scored shortly after. BB took a lot of heat for that.

Yes, on SNF as I recall. Good one. But I don't think it trumps what we saw Monday.

by **RiverDog** » Wed Sep 14, 2022 10:14 am

NorthHawk wrote:Apparently Hackett is getting grilled in Denver. They paid close to $200M for Wilson then chose to value a kicker over him when it counted. Why did you trade a lot for him if not to use him when it counts? Not a good look.

Yeah, that's another problem with the decision. I know that if I were a Broncos fan that I would have been livid with that decision because of that very point that you've raised.

Initially, Russell spat out the company line and supported Hackett's decision, but you know that he had to have been just burning up inside. IMO he would have had every right to have been pissed. It was a vote of no confidence, taking the ball out of his hands and giving it to a frigging kicker.

by **mykc14** » Wed Sep 14, 2022 10:50 am

RiverDog wrote:
Yeah, that's another problem with the decision. I know that if I were a Broncos fan that I would have been livid with that decision because of that very point that you've raised.

As we all should have been livid with the way the Hawks had been using RW over the last 3-5 years. We were paying for a Ferrari and treating it like a Corolla.

by **RiverDog** » Wed Sep 14, 2022 2:21 pm

The news, not unexpected, on Jamal Adams' knee injury isn't good:

Seattle Seahawks safety Jamal Adams reportedly has a torn quad, likely sidelined for all of 2022

And a little bit of background on this type of injury and the recovery time:

A partial tear can be treated without surgery. SportsMD.com explains that if a patient is “able to do a straight-leg raise and have good strength” then rehabilitation can start immediately. However, the limb would be immobilized for three to six weeks. It will take 10 to 12 weeks for the quad to be completely healed and it may be anywhere from three to six months before he returns to game action.

https://sportsnaut.com/seattle-seahawks ... torn-quad/

Oh, well....

by **govandals** » Wed Sep 14, 2022 2:36 pm

RiverDog wrote:
Yes, on SNF as I recall. Good one. But I don't think it trumps what we saw Monday.

I agree, BB's decision was the next worst one I could think of off the top of my head.

by **RiverDog** » Wed Sep 14, 2022 2:58 pm

RiverDog wrote:Yes, on SNF as I recall. Good one. But I don't think it trumps what we saw Monday.

govandals wrote:I agree, BB's decision was the next worst one I could think of off the top of my head.

Part of Belichick's logic was that he didn't want to give the ball back to Peyton Manning.

Oddly enough, thanks to analytics, teams will quite often go for it on 4th and short in their own territory in a situation like that nowadays. And if you want to go back even further, my dad told me that punting on 3rd down inside your own 20 wasn't unusual back in the 40's. Direct snap and quick kick, try to get it over the safety and get a roll. Back in the first few years of our franchise, we beat the Bears on a quick kick. It really upset Mike Ditka, said we won via a cheap, high school play. I can't imagine a team even considering such a play nowadays.

It's interesting how game strategies change over time. Thanks for dusting off the cobwebs.

by **Hawktawk** » Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:31 am

RiverDog wrote:The news, not unexpected, on Jamal Adams' knee injury isn't good:

Seattle Seahawks safety Jamal Adams reportedly has a torn quad, likely sidelined for all of 2022

And a little bit of background on this type of injury and the recovery time:

A partial tear can be treated without surgery. SportsMD.com explains that if a patient is “able to do a straight-leg raise and have good strength” then rehabilitation can start immediately. However, the limb would be immobilized for three to six weeks. It will take 10 to 12 weeks for the quad to be completely healed and it may be anywhere from three to six months before he returns to game action.

https://sportsnaut.com/seattle-seahawks ... torn-quad/

Oh, well....

Just seeing the play it happened with him shot out of a cannon shows the loss on the field. Whatever his shortcomings he is one of the hardest hitting play with reckless abandon guys Ive ever seen, great attitude, gives 110 %

It sucks. IMO its not a time to be discussing the bust hes obviously become and our defense isn't as dynamic without him . I pray for his recovery as a human being first and foremost. He was apparently so upset people had to stay with him in the locker room to console him. It seems to be never ending for this franchise. I cant think of many teams that have been torn up with injuries over the last half decade as Seattle .
Good luck Jamaal.

by **RiverDog** » Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:57 am

Well, it's official now. Jamal Adams is out for the season:

Seahawks S Jamal Adams to Undergo Season-Ending Surgery

While the Seahawks are riding high after a thrilling 17-16 victory over Russell Wilson and the Broncos on Monday Night Football, the win came at a huge cost with star safety Jamal Adams now officially lost for the season.

According to Ian Rapoport of NFL Network, Adams will be placed on injured reserve and undergo season-ending surgery to fix a torn quadriceps tendon suffered in Monday's win. Per Rapoport, the star safety is still working on figuring out when he will have surgery and who will perform the operation.

https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/news/ja ... ell-wilson

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