NFL Sunday

[TriCitySam]

A lot of sloppy football. I think this 3 game preseason and a week pause before game 1 is going to take some adjustments.

Yeah, to repeat Dick Vermeil at the HOF induction: "There is no correlation between practicing less and getting better. Never has, never will be."

[Aseahawkfan]

Yeah I do. Good running game, good oline, good Wr’s, and their QB was Drew Lock, yeah I think their home.

And a good defense. Denver defense was rated 3rd best scoring defense in the NFL last year. They were 8th in yards allowed. The Denver secondary is a highly rated unit with Patrick Surtain and Justin Simmons. Justin Simmons is considered on of the best safeties in the NFL.
https://www.denverbroncos.com/news/broncos-safety-justin-simmons-ranked-no-81-on-2022-nfl-top-100

[Aseahawkfan]

In addition to those two teams, I thought that the Chargers looked pretty good in beating the Raiders, a team that went to the playoffs last season. The Bolts didn't turn the ball over and committed just 5 penalties for a measly 21 yards, Hebert was 26-34 with 3 TD's and no INT's, defense picked off Carr three times and sacked him 5 times.

That division is going to be brutal. Denver needed a Russ. You aren't going to win in that division without a top QB no matter how good your defense or surrounding weapons are. Every team in that division is stacked.

I give Russ his credit. He wasn't looking for an easy route to more Super Bowls. He's looking to play against the very best and believes he can beat the Mahomes and Herbert's the NFL if the team around him is good enough. We'll see tonight if his supporting cast is better than he's had here the last three or four years.

[RiverDog]

In addition to those two teams, I thought that the Chargers looked pretty good in beating the Raiders, a team that went to the playoffs last season. The Bolts didn't turn the ball over and committed just 5 penalties for a measly 21 yards, Hebert was 26-34 with 3 TD's and no INT's, defense picked off Carr three times and sacked him 5 times.

That division (AFC West) is going to be brutal. Denver needed a Russ. You aren't going to win in that division without a top QB no matter how good your defense or surrounding weapons are. Every team in that division is stacked.

Chiefs and Chargers sure look stacked. The Raiders didn't look as polished as the other two teams, but I agree, at this point, the AFC West is by far the toughest division.

I give Russ his credit. He wasn't looking for an easy route to more Super Bowls. He's looking to play against the very best and believes he can beat the Mahomes and Herbert's the NFL if the team around him is good enough. We'll see tonight if his supporting cast is better than he's had here the last three or four years.

Russell didn't have that many options. For sure, the Hawks weren't going to trade him to a divisional opponent and probably wouldn't have traded him to a conference foe, either. That eliminates 15 teams. Take out the AFC teams that were not in the QB market (KC, Chargers, Bills, Bengals, etc) and you're down to 10-12 teams. Then eliminate the teams that weren't willing to hire a coach to Russell's liking as the Broncos did with Hackett, the financial commitment it was going to take to sign him to an extension, plus the willingness to part with the draft picks/players that the Hawks received. I don't think any other team could have matched what Denver was willing to give.

[Aseahawkfan]

Russell didn't have that many options. For sure, the Hawks weren't going to trade him to a divisional opponent and probably wouldn't have traded him to a conference foe, either. That eliminates 15 teams. Take out the AFC teams that were not in the QB market (KC, Chargers, Bills, Bengals, etc) and you're down to 10-12 teams. Then eliminate the teams that weren't willing to hire a coach to Russell's liking as the Broncos did with Hackett, the financial commitment it was going to take to sign him to an extension, plus the willingness to part with the draft picks/players that the Hawks received. I don't think any other team could have matched what Denver was willing to give.

Russell could have went to a Cleveland as they were looking. I think the team would have traded Russ within the conference, but not the division. So I don't agree every NFC team was off the table. Russ had options to go to an easier division or team. But Denver really wanted him and Russ is that competitive. He believes he can go head to head with Mahomes and Herbert. He thinks he can beat them. Whether that is true or not, we will see. Russ could have said no to Denver if felt that battle was too much. Seattle did not have control of the trade, Russ did. He looked at Denver and what they offered and who would be going against and went, "That's where the best play, I want to go head to head against the best." If that is not part of his thought process, he could have just said no and waited to go to the Cowboys or said yes to the Cleveland trade. Russ has to ok those trades, so team asks him before they explore the trade or they're wasting their time.

[RiverDog]

Russell could have went to a Cleveland as they were looking. I think the team would have traded Russ within the conference, but not the division. So I don't agree every NFC team was off the table. Russ had options to go to an easier division or team. But Denver really wanted him and Russ is that competitive. He believes he can go head to head with Mahomes and Herbert. He thinks he can beat them. Whether that is true or not, we will see. Russ could have said no to Denver if felt that battle was too much. Seattle did not have control of the trade, Russ did. He looked at Denver and what they offered and who would be going against and went, "That's where the best play, I want to go head to head against the best." If that is not part of his thought process, he could have just said no and waited to go to the Cowboys or said yes to the Cleveland trade. Russ has to ok those trades, so team asks him before they explore the trade or they're wasting their time.

The Hawks obvious preference would have been to trade Russell to an AFC team. Cleveland was definitely in the market to upgrade their QB position, but would they have given Russell the type of control over the offense that the Broncos did? With the running attack that they have, I doubt that they would. Denver was by far the best option for both Russell and us. The Hawks had Russell under contract through 2022 plus they could have slapped the FT on him. They had significant leverage. Time would have been on the Hawks side. It had to be a mutually agreeable trade.

[Aseahawkfan]

The Hawks obvious preference would have been to trade Russell to an AFC team. Cleveland was definitely in the market to upgrade their QB position, but would they have given Russell the type of control over the offense that the Broncos did? With the running attack that they have, I doubt that they would. Denver was by far the best option for both Russell and us. The Hawks had Russell under contract through 2022 plus they could have slapped the FT on him. They had significant leverage. Time would have been on the Hawks side. It had to be a mutually agreeable trade.

Cleveland would have given Russ whatever he wanted. That team is terrible. Russ isn't dumb enough to go to the graveyard for football careers known as Cleveland. Nobody with a half a brain wants to go there that has a choice or isn't doing it just for the money.

Both Russ and the team had options, but Russ had more options than the team with the no trade clause. By refusing a trade, who cares if he plays out his contract and the team pays him millions to do so as they would have had to pay. Russ wants to win and he patently does not think he can win playing Carroll's way.

You're thinking of the Hawks, but this isn't about them. Would time have been on Pete Carroll's side? Would he have outlasted Russell staying with Seattle for 3 more years? I doubt Pete would have lasted. Russell could have though. Could have just said no to the trade like he probably did with the Cleveland trade when asked if that was a possibility. The trade had to be mutually beneficial with Russell having ultimate control because all he had to do at the negotiating table is pull a Michael Scott where he says, "I don't have to outlast the Seahawks. The fans love me. If we keep losing, eventually the coach is going to take the blame. So what I'm betting is I only have to outlast Pete Carroll's time here and I'm not all in. So you either find a new coach here or you find a team I want to go to and I'll ok the trade."

The more I read on this, the more clear it becomes that Russell had no problem staying in Seattle. His problem was with Carroll and how he ran the team and offensive philosophy. He was only going to ok a trade with a team that was going to embrace his vision of how the team offense should run and give him input. That wasn't going to be Pete Carroll who plans to stick by his view of offense no matter what happens. That is why I chuckle at these people who think Russ was running his own offense. He was not. He was running the offense Pete wants to run. That's what drove Russell out of here because he was no longer some young pup QB happy to do whatever the head coach says. He was a developed QB who wanted to run a more complex passing offense that threw more. Pete wasn't going for that and he still had control.

John backed Pete because they're about as tight as a GM and coach can be. Russ was the odd man out and they found a place willing to pay well in draft picks that convinced Russ they were a good destination where he could be a winner again with a coach willing to let him have the organizational voice he wanted.

I don't know why fans don't realize Pete is every bit the control freak Holmgren or Bill B or any other head coach is. He's just not gruff and he likes to yap more than most. But people should make no mistake: Pete runs things on this team.

I even have a buddy high on Clint Hurtt because he thinks Ken Norton Jr was the reason for the bad defense. That's just BS. Pete did not sit by letting Kenny do whatever he wanted when things were not working. He oked every moved and probably suggested a lot of them in a desperate attempt to turn around a talent-depleted defense. When it didn't work, he sent Kenny packing to take the blame for Pete's failure to turn around the defense and now he's starting with another young guy in Clint Hurtt and bringing in Desai so he can implement a new Vic Fangio style 3-4 which seems to be the new flavor of the month defense in the NFL. We'll see how long Pete feels comfortable with this change which he has some understanding of from his days with Frisco.

[RiverDog]

Cleveland would have given Russ whatever he wanted. That team is terrible. Russ isn't dumb enough to go to the graveyard for football careers known as Cleveland. Nobody with a half a brain wants to go there that has a choice or isn't doing it just for the money.

That's absolutely true. Who in the hell wants to go to Cleveland anyway?

Both Russ and the team had options, but Russ had more options than the team with the no trade clause. By refusing a trade, who cares if he plays out his contract and the team pays him millions to do so as they would have had to pay. Russ wants to win and he patently does not think he can win playing Carroll's way.

You're thinking of the Hawks, but this isn't about them. Would time have been on Pete Carroll's side? Would he have outlasted Russell staying with Seattle for 3 more years? I doubt Pete would have lasted. Russell could have though. Could have just said no to the trade like he probably did with the Cleveland trade when asked if that was a possibility. The trade had to be mutually beneficial with Russell having ultimate control because all he had to do at the negotiating table is pull a Michael Scott where he says, "I don't have to outlast the Seahawks. The fans love me. If we keep losing, eventually the coach is going to take the blame. So what I'm betting is I only have to outlast Pete Carroll's time here and I'm not all in. So you either find a new coach here or you find a team I want to go to and I'll ok the trade."

The more I read on this, the more clear it becomes that Russell had no problem staying in Seattle. His problem was with Carroll and how he ran the team and offensive philosophy. He was only going to ok a trade with a team that was going to embrace his vision of how the team offense should run and give him input. That wasn't going to be Pete Carroll who plans to stick by his view of offense no matter what happens. That is why I chuckle at these people who think Russ was running his own offense. He was not. He was running the offense Pete wants to run. That's what drove Russell out of here because he was no longer some young pup QB happy to do whatever the head coach says. He was a developed QB who wanted to run a more complex passing offense that threw more. Pete wasn't going for that and he still had control.

John backed Pete because they're about as tight as a GM and coach can be. Russ was the odd man out and they found a place willing to pay well in draft picks that convinced Russ they were a good destination where he could be a winner again with a coach willing to let him have the organizational voice he wanted.

I don't know why fans don't realize Pete is every bit the control freak Holmgren or Bill B or any other head coach is. He's just not gruff and he likes to yap more than most. But people should make no mistake: Pete runs things on this team.

I even have a buddy high on Clint Hurtt because he thinks Ken Norton Jr was the reason for the bad defense. That's just BS. Pete did not sit by letting Kenny do whatever he wanted when things were not working. He oked every moved and probably suggested a lot of them in a desperate attempt to turn around a talent-depleted defense. When it didn't work, he sent Kenny packing to take the blame for Pete's failure to turn around the defense and now he's starting with another young guy in Clint Hurtt and bringing in Desai so he can implement a new Vic Fangio style 3-4 which seems to be the new flavor of the month defense in the NFL. We'll see how long Pete feels comfortable with this change which he has some understanding of from his days with Frisco.

I don't think either Russell or the Hawks had that many options. The Hawks didn't want to trade him to an NFC team and Russell wanted to go to a team that would let him freelance.

I agree with your assessment of Pete.