Cutdown to 53

[Agent 86]

Post anything you see today, deadline is approaching in half an hour:

Marquise Blair DB
Aaron Fuller WR
Tanner Muse LB
Freddie Swain WR
Scott Nelson DB
Dakoda Shepley OL
Tyler Mabry TE
Cade Brewer TE
Ronnie Rivers RB
Jameson Houston CB
Aaron Donkor LB

[Agent 86]

DB Marquise Blair
WR Aaron Fuller
OG Dakoda Shepley
WR Freddie Swain
TE Tyler Mabry
LB/S Tanner Muse
S Scott Nelson
CB Jameson Houston
TE Cade Brewer
LB Aaron Donkor
RB Ronnie Rivers
OG Shamarious Gilmore
OG Keenan Forbes
CB Josh Valentine-Turner
DB Antonio Valentino
OG Eric Wilson
WR Deontez Alexander
LB Joel Iyiegbuniwe
DB Bubba Bolden
DT Matt Gotel
CB Elijah Jones

[Aseahawkfan]

You're posting the guys who have gotten cut?

[RiverDog]

Here's the final 53. I deleted the names of Field Gulls' strike throughs as it wouldn't format here in the forum, so correct me if I missed something:

Quarterback: Geno Smith, Drew Lock

Running Back: Rashaad Penny, Ken Walker, DeeJay Dallas, Travis Homer

Tight End: Will Dissly, Noah Fant, Colby Parkinson

Wide Receiver: Tyler Lockett, DK Metcalf, Dee Eskridge, Marquise Goodwin, Penny Hart, Dareke Young

Offensive Line: Damien Lewis, Austin Blythe, Gabe Jackson, , Kyle Fuller, Phil Haynes, , Charles Cross, Abe Lucas, Stone Forsythe, Jake Curhan


Defensive Line: Myles Adams, Shelby Harris, Poona Ford, Quentin Jefferson, Bryan Mone, Al Woods, L.J. Collier

Linebacker: Jordyn Brooks, Darrell Taylor, Uchenna Nwosu, Boye Mafe, Cody Barton, Nick Bellore, Tyreke Smith (IR), Alton Robinson, Joshua Onujiogu and Jon Rhattigan (PUP)

Cornerback: Sidney Jones, Artie Burns, Coby Bryant, Tariq Woolen, Mike Jackson, John Reid, J and Tre Brown (PUP)

Safety: Quandre Diggs, Jamal Adams, Ryan Neal, Josh Jones, Joey Blount.

Specialists: Jason Myers, Tyler Ott and Michael Dickson.

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2022/8/30/23 ... ross-lucas

[RiverDog]

Perhaps the biggest surprise cut was Marquise Blair, a 2019 2nd round pick. I'm surprised that they didn't cut LJ Collier. I guess it's easier to admit to a mistake on a 2nd rounder than it is a 1st rounder.

Justin Coleman, the guy that screwed up Dickson's perfect punt in the Bears game, was a bit of a surprise cut.

Mike Jackson made it. Dude plays with his balls out.

[Agent 86]

Here's the final 53. I deleted the names of Field Gulls' strike throughs as it wouldn't format here in the forum, so correct me if I missed something:

Quarterback: Geno Smith, Drew Lock

Running Back: Rashaad Penny, Ken Walker, DeeJay Dallas, Travis Homer

Tight End: Will Dissly, Noah Fant, Colby Parkinson

Wide Receiver: Tyler Lockett, DK Metcalf, Dee Eskridge, Marquise Goodwin, Penny Hart, Dareke Young

Offensive Line: Damien Lewis, Austin Blythe, Gabe Jackson, , Kyle Fuller, Phil Haynes, , Charles Cross, Abe Lucas, Stone Forsythe, Jake Curhan


Defensive Line: Myles Adams, Shelby Harris, Poona Ford, Quentin Jefferson, Bryan Mone, Al Woods, L.J. Collier

Linebacker: Jordyn Brooks, Darrell Taylor, Uchenna Nwosu, Boye Mafe, Cody Barton, Nick Bellore, Tyreke Smith (IR), Alton Robinson, Joshua Onujiogu and Jon Rhattigan (PUP)

Cornerback: Sidney Jones, Artie Burns, Coby Bryant, Tariq Woolen, Mike Jackson, John Reid, J and Tre Brown (PUP)

Safety: Quandre Diggs, Jamal Adams, Ryan Neal, Josh Jones, Joey Blount.

Specialists: Jason Myers, Tyler Ott and Michael Dickson.

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2022/8/30/23 ... ross-lucas

Thanks River, much better than my listing all the cuts that happened. I guess the 3 surprises of guys who just flat got beat out were Blair, Coleman, and Swain.

So your list has 56 names on it, with Smith, Brown, and Rhattigan being on PUP/IR, so 53 others.

I would expect them to pick up some better depth at Inside LB in the next couple days. Happy for Dareke Young, now that he has made it I am hoping he loses the "drops". He is known as a physical WR, fast, can line up anywhere, and likes to block. I see some nice gadget plays with him and expect him to try and impose his will early on as a rookie on opposing DB's.

[RiverDog]

Thanks River, much better than my listing all the cuts that happened. I guess the 3 surprises of guys who just flat got beat out were Blair, Coleman, and Swain.

No problem.

Blair getting cut highlights just how bad our drafting has been. LJ Collier was our first rounder in that same draft that we took Blair in, and I'm surprised that they're keeping him on the roster as he hasn't shown anything worthy of a roster spot for two years. Perhaps they think that they can trade him.

[NorthHawk]

LJ Collier is currently injured, so there might be some CAP implications if they cut him today.

It says a lot about how little talent there is on this team when nobody is surprised by the cuts excepting maybe Blair and perhaps Swain.
It used to be that there were some real good players let go at the end of TC, but now they are mostly also rans.

In any event, in less than a couple of weeks we'll see how it all fits together.

Edit:
PS players haven't been announced yet, so a bunch of the cuts will end up there.

[Aseahawkfan]

My buddy thinks Collier is a placeholder for a cut from another team. Collier's zero production not hard to replace. I imagine someone decent will end up cut we can pick up for another rotational player.

[RiverDog]

LJ Collier is currently injured, so there might be some CAP implications if they cut him today.

My buddy thinks Collier is a placeholder for a cut from another team. Collier's zero production not hard to replace. I imagine someone decent will end up cut we can pick up for another rotational player.

Those are both reasonable explanations. One thing is for sure: He doesn't deserve a roster spot.

[TriCitySam]

Blair is probably the most surprising. He flashed some real skills at times, although two issues work against him: missed tackles in PS Game #2 and he's had a hard time staying healthy. No team escapes higher draft picks that don't work out, nobody. I give them credit for moving on, it supports their stance regarding competition that the best players will stay. I would imagine he get's picked up somewhere.

[obiken]

Blair getting cut highlights just how bad our drafting has been. LJ Collier was our first rounder in that same draft that we took Blair in, and I'm surprised that they're keeping him on the roster as he hasn't shown anything worthy of a roster spot for two years. Perhaps they think that they can trade him.

Thats it in a Nutshell River! Look at the bright side, 5 days and either Hawk Talk goes down, or I do!!

[Hawktawk]

Perhaps the biggest surprise cut was Marquise Blair, a 2019 2nd round pick. I'm surprised that they didn't cut LJ Collier. I guess it's easier to admit to a mistake on a 2nd rounder than it is a 1st rounder.

Justin Coleman, the guy that screwed up Dickson's perfect punt in the Bears game, was a bit of a surprise cut.

Mike Jackson made it. Dude plays with his balls out.

Hurrt was complimentary of LJ collier in the preseason . I haven’t seen a lot of evidence Pete and john hang on to guys based on draft position . They look at potential .

[Hawktawk]

Blair is probably the most surprising. He flashed some real skills at times, although two issues work against him: missed tackles in PS Game #2 and he's had a hard time staying healthy. No team escapes higher draft picks that don't work out, nobody. I give them credit for moving on, it supports their stance regarding competition that the best players will stay. I would imagine he get's picked up somewhere.

He had some serious lower leg injuries . It makes you not the same sometimes. He’s one . It was part of my amazement penny still had the burst .

[Hawktawk]

It’s a ten win minimum roster .

[RiverDog]

It’s a ten win minimum roster .

That was a good one!

[Old but Slow]

I was a little surprised when they cut Blair. He is basically a safety, but they have had him at nickel corner. My thinking is that he might have been given a chance at being a regular safety instead of a misplaced corner.

Cutting Cade Johnson was a disappointment, but he may get on the practice squad again.

I don't recall seeing much of Onujiogu, but he must have impressed in practice as an undrafted free agent from a division II school.

[RiverDog]

No team escapes higher draft picks that don't work out, nobody.

Which is the generic defense that every team gives for busted draft picks. If that excuse were accepted, the HC turnover rate would be half of what it is.

At least when you contrast it to Pete's first 2 drafts, the more recent ones have paled in comparison. Since it was added to the CBA in 2011, how many 5th year options have we picked up on our #1 picks? Answer: Zero. Nada.

But to give credit where credit is due, I really liked this year's draft. It has the potential to be on par with Pete's early drafts.

[Old but Slow]

River, I was disappointed that you didn't use 10 laughing heads.

[RiverDog]

River, I was disappointed that you didn't use 10 laughing heads.

LOL!

Here ya go!

[Hawktawk]

Joke is sure gonna be on someone . If I’m right I’ll still be accused of being wrong like I already am tines 10 on the Geno thing .
See you on the 12th

[c_hawkbob]

Claimed on waivers: defensive back Isaiah Dunn from the New York Jets and defensive end Darryl Johnson from the Carolina Panthers. The front office now has one hour to make the moves necessary in order to accommodate Dunn and Johnson on the roster.

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2022/8/31/23 ... yl-johnson

[Agent 86]

Claimed on waivers: defensive back Isaiah Dunn from the New York Jets and defensive end Darryl Johnson from the Carolina Panthers. The front office now has one hour to make the moves necessary in order to accommodate Dunn and Johnson on the roster.

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2022/8/31/23 ... yl-johnson

Pretty sure we all think Collier has to be one of the upcoming cuts to make room. Looking at the current roster I can't even venture a guess at the other.

Also saw Sean Mannion is signing back onto our PS and not the Vikings which means Eason is probably not a candidate for the PS.

Edit: Also just read that Justin Coleman is expected to re-sign with the Seahawks today, so that makes 3 current guys that need to go.

[RiverDog]

Claimed on waivers: defensive back Isaiah Dunn from the New York Jets and defensive end Darryl Johnson from the Carolina Panthers. The front office now has one hour to make the moves necessary in order to accommodate Dunn and Johnson on the roster.

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2022/8/31/23 ... yl-johnson

Pretty sure we all think Collier has to be one of the upcoming cuts to make room. Looking at the current roster I can't even venture a guess at the other.

Also saw Sean Mannion is signing back onto our PS and not the Vikings which means Eason is probably not a candidate for the PS.

Edit: Also just read that Justin Coleman is expected to re-sign with the Seahawks today, so that makes 3 current guys that need to go.

Yup. Collier has to be one of those cuts. I was surprised to see Coleman not make the cut, so his re-signing wasn't a big surprise.

Edit: I'm hearing now that Collier will be put on IR.

[RiverDog]

I learned something today. If a player is put on IR before the cuts are made, they can't come back during the season. But if they're on the final 53 and then put on IR, they can come back at some point. This explains why they didn't cut Collier. They must want one more look at him before they split the sheets.

[Agent 86]

I learned something today. If a player is put on IR before the cuts are made, they can't come back during the season. But if they're on the final 53 and then put on IR, they can come back at some point. This explains why they didn't cut Collier. They must want one more look at him before they split the sheets.

Aah, I wondered why that happened and why he wasn't placed on IR yesterday instead.

Looks like they waived OLB Joshua Onujiogu and placed CB John Reid on IR. That would be to make room for Dunn and Johnson.

If/when they sign Coleman back, then looks like Collier is going to IR to make room there. But haven't seen anything official on that yet.

[NorthHawk]

I learned something today. If a player is put on IR before the cuts are made, they can't come back during the season. But if they're on the final 53 and then put on IR, they can come back at some point. This explains why they didn't cut Collier. They must want one more look at him before they split the sheets.

And there are Cap implications of cutting him if he’s injured and on IR.

[Agent 86]

Official now, Coleman is back and Collier placed on IR.

[TriCitySam]

Which is the generic defense that every team gives for busted draft picks. If that excuse were accepted, the HC turnover rate would be half of what it is.

Whether fans want to recognize it or not, it's a fact, not an "excuse". If you go back and look at other teams - and I did in March - you'll see it happens to the best of them. Patriots, Ravens, Packers, Rams (etc) have all had them. From 2016 to 2021, Ravens had 6 top 3 wash out, incuding a #1. Packers had 5 #2's that didn't pan out. Rams finally decided they're better off trading picks for proven players than drafting. When I looked at that period, Seattle looked pretty good in the drafting department. Secondly, I don't blame the powers when a player washes out due to injury. That's not bad drafting, that's bad luck.

[RiverDog]

Which is the generic defense that every team gives for busted draft picks. If that excuse were accepted, the HC turnover rate would be half of what it is.

Whether fans want to recognize it or not, it's a fact, not an "excuse". If you go back and look at other teams - and I did in March - you'll see it happens to the best of them. Patriots, Ravens, Packers, Rams (etc) have all had them. From 2016 to 2021, Ravens had 6 top 3 wash out, incuding a #1. Packers had 5 #2's that didn't pan out. Rams finally decided they're better off trading picks for proven players than drafting. When I looked at that period, Seattle looked pretty good in the drafting department.

I did a search on 2021 NFL draft rankings, and the first link that popped up was the Sporting News, and they had us ranked 30th:

.https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/new ... tems...%20

Using the same publication, they had us ranked 27th in 2020 and 23rd in 2019. In 2018, they didn't do a ranking, just letter grades, but they gave us a C-. Only one other team got a lower grade while 3 also had a C-.

Ironically, for 2022, that same publication gave us an A grade and ranked us 9th, which aligns with how a lot of us in this forum feel.

I'm not necessarily treating the Sporting News as the gold standard. It was the first one that popped up in my search and I used them just to maintain some consistency. But it does demonstrate that it's more than just us "fans" that harbor the opinion that we've drafted poorly in recent years.

Besides, drafting is just one component of managing draft capital. There are also the trades that we've made that didn't work out, ie Harvin, Graham, and Adams. We've also made lots of moves, trading down to accumulate picks we burned on player trades. That strategy hasn't proven to be sound, at least recently. Ironically, we didn't make any draft day trades this season.

Bottom line is that there is plenty of justification for us fanboys to feel that we've managed the draft very poorly until this season.

[Hawktawk]

Harvin and Graham worked out : we will see about Adams

[obiken]

Its not who they took River and if they worked out or not, its years of not drafting for need on the Offensive line! Its like this year PC finally addressees the oline AFTER RW is gone? I looked on it as a slap in the face to RW, to us fans, and to the media, both local and national.

[Aseahawkfan]

Its not who they took River and if they worked out or not, its years of not drafting for need on the Offensive line! Its like this year PC finally addressees the oline AFTER RW is gone? I looked on it as a slap in the face to RW, to us fans, and to the media, both local and national.

The sad truth is Pete and John drafted a lot of O-line players high, but they just sucked or were average at best.

[Aseahawkfan]

Whether fans want to recognize it or not, it's a fact, not an "excuse". If you go back and look at other teams - and I did in March - you'll see it happens to the best of them. Patriots, Ravens, Packers, Rams (etc) have all had them. From 2016 to 2021, Ravens had 6 top 3 wash out, incuding a #1. Packers had 5 #2's that didn't pan out. Rams finally decided they're better off trading picks for proven players than drafting. When I looked at that period, Seattle looked pretty good in the drafting department. Secondly, I don't blame the powers when a player washes out due to injury. That's not bad drafting, that's bad luck.

The NFL is built to punish success and allow weaker teams to rise. But let's also be real here. Packers changed GMs at some point and the draft drop off may have been due to changing GMs. Not to mention Packers nailed the most important position: QB. They have had good QB play for 30 years now from Favre to Rodgers.

Baltimore fell off and has plenty of down periods. Ozzie Newsome had a lot of great drafts over 16 years, but he had to retire at some point.

Belichick let's even his top performing drafted players leave. He's always confident he can replace players in the draft. He always does.

You could argue that we started losing because Pete was just getting outcoached on both sides of the ball. Someone figured out how to beat him and they never stopped after that second Super Bowl loss. Whereas Bill is always doing something new and maintained competitive play over his time with the Patriots. Looks like he may be back in business this year.

With Pete and John it's not just the drafts, it's also the trades that don't do much. They haven't managed the aging out of the great players from the Super Bowl Era. Even you gotta see that our lack of a quality CB since Sherm left is egregious. We haven't had quality CBs in four or five years. Even this year we're starting rookies. Pete Carroll is a former safety and prides himself on secondary play and his inability to develop an even average performing CB since Sherm left is pretty glaring.

[obiken]

Except for one position ASHF, QB. He always had Tommy, now Billy is doomed. I think he retires at the end of the year with Tommy. TB always got along with Kraft, Billy never did, he never warmed up to anybody. Billicheck was nothing before Tom and nothing after Tom. Tom's pay cuts made it all go, it started coming off the wagon when Bill was all in on Jimmy G and Tom went to Kraft. Tom wasnt scared, he was like a hunter on JG and he took out the threat! Billy was pissed! It was never the same after that!

[Aseahawkfan]

Except for one position ASHF, QB. He always had Tommy, now Billy is doomed. I think he retires at the end of the year with Tommy. TB always got along with Kraft, Billy never did, he never warmed up to anybody. Billicheck was nothing before Tom and nothing after Tom. Tom's pay cuts made it all go, it started coming off the wagon when Bill was all in on Jimmy G and Tom went to Kraft. Tom wasnt scared, he was like a hunter on JG and he took out the threat! Billy was pissed! It was never the same after that!

I give you that, Obi. Until Bill proves he can win without Tommy, he's got a question mark. Tommy proved he can win without Bill with a so so head coach. Arians isn't terrible, but he also isn't some kind of perennial winner. Tom proved he's the best to ever do it with or without Bill B. Only Tom's haters question his GOAT QB status. The man did something no QB has ever done in the Super Bowl and salary cap era and no one is even close to him. I doubt any QB will ever equal Tom's seven rings and ten trips at that position. A 100 years from now it will be one of those records on a list along with Dimaggio's games with a hit streak.

[RiverDog]

Its not who they took River and if they worked out or not, its years of not drafting for need on the Offensive line! Its like this year PC finally addressees the oline AFTER RW is gone? I looked on it as a slap in the face to RW, to us fans, and to the media, both local and national.

You make a good point. Pete historically has de-valued the offensive line.

Digging back to a thread I started back in December where I did a little homework on the subject, I came up with this:

Going backwards from 2021, here are the linemen we drafted with the round we selected them in parathesis:

2021 Stone Forsythe (6)
2020 Damien Lewis (3)
2019 Phil Haynes (4)
2018 Jamarco Jones (5)
2017 Ethan Pocic (2), Justin Senior (7)
2016 Germain Ifedi (1), Rees Odhiambo (3), Joey Hunt (6)
2015 Terry Poole (4), Mark Glowinski (4)
2014 Justin Britt (2), Garrett Scott (6)

In the 4 years from 2014-17, we drafted nine offensive linemen, including 1 first rounder and 2 second rounders. In the following 4 years, from 2018-21, we drafted 4 offensive linemen, with the highest being a 3rd rounder.

In each of the four earlier years, we drafted multiple offensive linemen, including 3 in 2016, while in the past 4 years we haven't had any drafts with multiple big uglies.

The average round for offensive linemen selected (add up the rounds for each player and divide by the number of players drafted) from 2014-17 was 3.9. From 2018-21 that average was 4.5.

Since 2018, we've drafted more wide receivers (5) than we have offensive linemen (4).

Obviously, this information was drawn before the 2022 draft where we took Cross with a top 10 pick and Lucas with a 3rd rounder.

[Hawktawk]

Its not who they took River and if they worked out or not, its years of not drafting for need on the Offensive line! Its like this year PC finally addressees the oline AFTER RW is gone? I looked on it as a slap in the face to RW, to us fans, and to the media, both local and national.

Oh please . I’ve had it . Joe Burrow was sacked 75 times and was a play from being a world champ. There were NFL quality linemen around Russ every game of his career .

It’s a thread unto itself explaining way more sacks than any man first 10 years without the worst line every single year which is absolutely not the facts .

I’m tired of it and I bet the men trying to block for Wilson are too . Let’s see what happens . Seattle gave up 45 last year and Denver 40. Let’s just see . See how Denver likes blocking for the hardest guy to pass block for in the history of the league .

The insults and slaps in the face were one way obi and it wasn’t coming from Seattle .

[RiverDog]

Oh please . I’ve had it . Joe Burrow was sacked 75 times and was a play from being a world champ. There were NFL quality linemen around Russ every game of his career.

Oh, please yourself! By definition, every quarterback has NFL quality linemen around them in every game of their career.

Take a look at my response to obi's observation. It's clear that in the 4 years prior to this past draft, that Pete has not dedicated resources to the offensive line. Over that period of time, he's drafted more wide receivers than he has offensive linemen.

It might just be a coincidence but wasn't until Russell left that we finally started to throw some draft picks at the big uglies. It's been 10 years since Pete spent a #1 and a #3 on offensive linemen in the same draft.

[Hawktawk]

Oh please . I’ve had it . Joe Burrow was sacked 75 times and was a play from being a world champ. There were NFL quality linemen around Russ every game of his career.

RD”Oh, please yourself! By definition, every quarterback has NFL quality linemen around them in every game of their career.

Take a look at my response to obi's observation. It's clear that in the 4 years prior to this past draft, that Pete has not dedicated resources to the offensive line. Over that period of time, he's drafted more wide receivers than he has offensive linemen.

It might just be a coincidence but wasn't until Russell left that we finally started to throw some draft picks at the big uglies.[/quote]
As you point out there were periods they spent higher capital with the same results . Highest sack totals most years although we’ve run well behind most of them . Pete and john don’t draft strictly based on need . They went and got an all
Pro lynch pin in Brown . Brought in Jackson . Outstanding offensive linemen don’t grow on trees . Someone just got tired of getting hit too much and told the world and the debate has raged ever since