Battle in Seattle for QB1

[NorthHawk]

The two top QB's in next year's class are CJ Stroud from Ohio State and Bryce Young from Alabama, the reigning Heisman Trophy winner. We'll need a pick in the top 3 to nab one of those two. I don't think you'll see QB's slide out of the first round next spring like they did in this past draft.

Some of the QBs from successful programs are rated highly because the program is so successful and they are surrounded by elite talent. So it's difficult to determine if their success is because of them or because
their OL's are very good and their WRs are exceptional.

As well, the QBs in college can change from one year to the next in that some suddenly pop up on the radar and have a great year while others decline. It's part of being immature at that level and by just being kids.

[Hawktawk]

I think Denver has a better than good chance to win it, but why do they have to? That division is going to be beating themselves up all year so every team is going to
have some losses at times.

If you trade your one time QBOTF along with 2 really good players and a raft of draft picks for your missing piece you cannot go lose to the team you got him from . I completely agree that on paper they have the hardest division with star qb play across the board. All the more reason you can’t afford to drop a game to the worst team in history starting a dog meat #36 qb or the guy you traded .

Thank you pundits . Thank you PFF for where you put my team . It’s not going to be easy for Denver and a loss might well spin them out week 1 with Hackett and Wilson answering questions . I don’t think there will be a long honeymoon in Denver if it doesn’t go well . No 10 years of goodwill . So let’s see . I predict a Seattle win . How big depends on the next 3 weeks . If Wilson rides in here and has his way I’ve likely been wrong about all of it . It’s how important this game is IMO.

[NorthHawk]

If you trade your one time QBOTF along with 2 really good players and a raft of draft picks for your missing piece you cannot go lose to the team you got him from .

That's BS.
It's how it ends after 17 games, not the first game.

[Aseahawkfan]

If you trade your one time QBOTF along with 2 really good players and a raft of draft picks for your missing piece you cannot go lose to the team you got him from . I completely agree that on paper they have the hardest division with star qb play across the board. All the more reason you can’t afford to drop a game to the worst team in history starting a dog meat #36 qb or the guy you traded .

Thank you pundits . Thank you PFF for where you put my team . It’s not going to be easy for Denver and a loss might well spin them out week 1 with Hackett and Wilson answering questions . I don’t think there will be a long honeymoon in Denver if it doesn’t go well . No 10 years of goodwill . So let’s see . I predict a Seattle win . How big depends on the next 3 weeks . If Wilson rides in here and has his way I’ve likely been wrong about all of it . It’s how important this game is IMO.

Why do you even pretend "You're right" about this and that and attempting to predict this and that then pretending you predicted something obvious. No one cares. No one in here even has the same opinion on Russ, the team, or what not.

You painted this whole doom and gloom thing, when people in here were all over the place from some seeing doom and gloom to some seeing something else like 6 to 8 wins and you seeing 10-12. It don't matter if anyone is right or not unless you're putting money down in Vegas.

Who cares what happens with Russ. It will never change that he was the QB when we won a Super Bowl and went to another and had this amazing period of football in Seattle that we aren't likely to see again because such eras are so rare and require so much to go right.

No one is going to care if Russ does really well or he does really badly or somewhere in-between. No one else will be trying to claim "I was right" like some egotistical ass. No one cares. We all watch this game for fun and stick by our favorite team because we're fans whether they are going into season filled with doom or optimistic or somewhere between that.

[Aseahawkfan]

I think Denver has a better than good chance to win it, but why do they have to? That division is going to be beating themselves up all year so every team is going to
have some losses at times.

From what I've seen, they got two good to great RBs on offense, but not a whole lot else. One thing I do find concerning is our run defense in Seattle still looks like hot garbage, which is why I don't see why c-bob thinks Mone looks good at NT. Our d-line wasn't having a great day getting pressure or stopping the run. They're going to be going against some much better people when the season starts. If they're getting pushed around come opening day, that Denver offense will run on us like gangbusters. Denver may not be impressive overall, they're RB duo is no joke at all. Denver's rush game was top 13 with no quality QB play and both of Denver's RB were 11 and 13 respectively. Then add in Russell Wilson using the read option and you have a very good run game coupled with a QB who thrives with a good run game.

I hope Seattle gets far better at controlling the LoS by the time Denver arrives or we're in for a long day.

[c_hawkbob]

I didn't say Mone, I said Puna Ford.

[obiken]

There's no way we get the #1 pick via Denver.
I think we end up in the 4-8 range with our natural pick.
With 2 of them in the 1st, we could move up a couple of notches and maybe get one of the better QB prospects.

I think we end up in the 1-4 range and will get a natural pick. I think GS is the better way to go, if you want to win 5 games. IF you want to create turnovers and get a high draft pick Drew Lock is your guy. No way in hell the donkeys lose more than 7 games this year.

[RiverDog]

There's no way we get the #1 pick via Denver.
I think we end up in the 4-8 range with our natural pick.
With 2 of them in the 1st, we could move up a couple of notches and maybe get one of the better QB prospects.

I think we end up in the 1-4 range and will get a natural pick. I think GS is the better way to go, if you want to win 5 games. IF you want to create turnovers and get a high draft pick Drew Lock is your guy. No way in hell the donkeys lose more than 7 games this year.

I wouldn't be so sure about the Donks not losing more than 7. That would put them at a minimum of a 10-7 season, which would be good enough for a playoff berth if not a division championship. They play in a tough division and they have to play the NFC West, which was the toughest division in the conference last season. I don't think that they're going to tank, but it is not at all inconceivable for them to end up with a losing record.

[TriCitySam]

We'll, We know we don't have a top tier QB, so I think you've got to put them in a position to succeed, and in that situation, you'll get your QB whacked more times than not. According to PFF "Lock when kept clean, 141 passer rating, 1st among all QB's". But, it's close

[Hawktawk]

We haven’t had a top tier qb for a year now so let’s see. The line is obviously a cornerstone . Hard to tell from one preseason game just like hard to tell from a half what a qb is gonna do in a regular season game . But we ran well and pass blocked well and minus a few dropped passes , a dropped int and a missed hot read were right there . Those grading the qb battle need to remember Geno has 13 quarters starting with mostly decent to good #s and one eye popping one regarding DK. Record was still a loss in relief and 1-2 as a starter but the personal stats were not bad . I’m sure it’s in Carrols mind . I wonder how much influence JS may have on the situation because he seems very high on Lock and I’ve barely heard him say a word about Geno .

[RiverDog]

We'll, We know we don't have a top tier QB, so I think you've got to put them in a position to succeed, and in that situation, you'll get your QB whacked more times than not. According to PFF "Lock when kept clean, 141 passer rating, 1st among all QB's". But, it's close

The 'situation', if it's the one I think that you're talking about, was controllable by the QB.

The "when kept clean" stat is a little like a batter having a .350 average when thrown only fastballs. What I really want to see is what their rating is when they're under pressure.

[Aseahawkfan]

I didn't say Mone, I said Puna Ford.

Well, the whole D-line got pushed around near as I can tell. And they are what we're looking at as starters playing against the Pittsburgh scrubs. So I didn't find that particularly promising.

Losing a game 32-25 against scrubs when we're in essence playing a lot of folks who will be starting for us not particularly great now that the novelty of seeing our first football game has worn off.

[Aseahawkfan]

We haven’t had a top tier qb for a year now so let’s see. The line is obviously a cornerstone . Hard to tell from one preseason game just like hard to tell from a half what a qb is gonna do in a regular season game . But we ran well and pass blocked well and minus a few dropped passes , a dropped int and a missed hot read were right there . Those grading the qb battle need to remember Geno has 13 quarters starting with mostly decent to good #s and one eye popping one regarding DK. Record was still a loss in relief and 1-2 as a starter but the personal stats were not bad . I’m sure it’s in Carrols mind . I wonder how much influence JS may have on the situation because he seems very high on Lock and I’ve barely heard him say a word about Geno .

For the last six games of the year last year, we had a top tier QB and it showed. But the first 11 sucked.

[Aseahawkfan]

I wouldn't be so sure about the Donks not losing more than 7. That would put them at a minimum of a 10-7 season, which would be good enough for a playoff berth if not a division championship. They play in a tough division and they have to play the NFC West, which was the toughest division in the conference last season. I don't think that they're going to tank, but it is not at all inconceivable for them to end up with a losing record.

The Denver RBs are really, really good. They are both dual threat RBs. If Hackett builds some kind of read-option offense around Russ and the Denver RBs, they are going to be really, really hard to stop. Both of the Denver RBs are nearly 1000 yard rushers. Both can catch out of the backfield. Russell is a huge upgrade at QB compared to Lock or Smith even if he is 80 or 90 percent of what he was at his peak.

Russ will make the Denver receivers look better than they are like he does with every receiver. But those Denver RBs with Russ can do some crazy things if they maintain their production and Russ adds to the run-pass threat.

It's going to be real interesting to see how Hackett uses those RBs with Russ to create a dangerous offense. Given our defense is pretty garbage at run defense, could be a real bad day on the 12th of September. I really hope we see this D-line and the backers better at stopping the run than they're showing. They still look like they're getting pushed around to me.

[NorthHawk]

At this point I’m not concerned with the run defense. The first game is usually a mess of some sort considering the new players
that have been added and those that are not playing. if it.continues into the third game then I might have to look for a tall tree
and a short rope.

[Hawktawk]

Hacketts run attack averaged 1.8 yards per carry in his first preseason game . We’re beating Denver . They will have the bad night . Then let’s see. Our starting run defense is gonna be just fine

[obiken]

I wouldn't be so sure about the Donks not losing more than 7. That would put them at a minimum of a 10-7 season, which would be good enough for a playoff berth if not a division championship. They play in a tough division and they have to play the NFC West, which was the toughest division in the conference last season. I don't think that they're going to tank, but it is not at all inconceivable for them to end up with a losing record.

Come on River, I look on you and CBob as the grownups in the room. You guys are not HawkTalk, there’s just no way I see Denver losing more than six games. I just don’t see how barring major injuries. You’ve got Nick Chubb, you’ve got great corners, Gregory who they got from the Cowboys, And a boatload of other defensive talent. I think we get killed against Denver, the only thing that might save our butts is coaching, and the fact that it’s the first game of the year. Moreover, yes they lost Patrick, but they still have Melvin Gordon who’s got some juice left in his legs, and the best young running back in football last year who had almost 1000 yards rushing. Yes, they lost their TE, but come on Russell took gadget wide receivers and made winners out of them year after year in Seattle. You’ve got a much better offensive line than he had here, again in despite the injury, they still got plenty of wide receiver talent. The boys in Vegas would say the over under on Denver is 10.5, bet the over.
Now to Seattle, come on River, we have two new young offensive tackles, we have DK Metcalf who is becoming rapidly a diva wide receiver. Penny nuff said there, if he can stay healthy, that’s a big if. OK, we might have running back by committee with Dallas and Homer, but I seriously doubt it. To bank on Drew Lock really, come on he fumbles the ball as we saw last week, and he makes poor decisions. Okay yeah he’s got some juice on his arm whoopee who doesn’t. Geno Smith is done, he’s average at best. Our defense, come on enough said there. Even if we were to go with PC down the road, it will take three or four years to remotely have a viable playoff team. I just don’t see us improving enough in our division, we might split with the 49ers but we’re gonna lose at least five other games in my view. I don’t see us winning if we’re lucky, six games this year. Vegas has us at 5.5, You know as well as I do those boys aren’t out to lose money. I am not adamant about it, I hope I am wrong, but how many on this site are talking about X's and O's like the 3-4, not the Willy's and Joe's. There's are reason for that...

[c_hawkbob]

Thanks OBI, and basically I agree with your assessment of the Donkeys. Without assigning it a number (I'll let the boys in Vegas do that) they are at the very least playoff contenders. Expecting a first round draft pick that starts with any first digit better than a 2 is just unrealistic. If you're thinking single digits I want some of what you're smoking.

[RiverDog]

Come on River, I look on you and CBob as the grownups in the room. You guys are not HawkTalk, there’s just no way I see Denver losing more than six games.

Anytime I get mentioned along with Cbob I consider it to be a huge compliment, so thanks.

I'm not saying that you're wrong. You have some very sound reasons for feeling the way you do. All I'm saying is not to be so sure by saying "no way". A lot can happen, and you mentioned just one of them, injuries. All 3 of Denver's division mates have a reasonable argument for making the playoffs. IMO it's one of, if not the most competitive division in the league. There are no Texans, Jets, Giants, or Jags to weigh them down. All 3 of them have very good quarterbacks that can light up the scoreboard. All 3 of them were above .500 last season. Plus take a look at who else besides us they're playing in the NFC West. The Rams and Niners both played in the NFCCG. The Cards were 10-2 before the wheels came off the wagon.

[c_hawkbob]

Well thanks Riv, You fine company to be considered with as well!

[TriCitySam]

I get the hot read, but to me, when you send 5 out and have C and LG double teaming, you set up where you gotta dump it in less than 2.0. Hot read or not, that play wasn't working.

[RiverDog]

I get the hot read, but to me, when you send 5 out and have C and LG double teaming, you set up where you gotta dump it in less than 2.0. Hot read or not, that play wasn't working.

Good point, but as Brock Huard once said, if the bench sends in a skunk of a play, it's up to the quarterback to not let it stink.

Lock was in the gun. There was no excuse for him not seeing that blitz coming in time to at least duck and cover.

[RiverDog]

Lock has taken over first team snaps from Geno:

We may be witnessing a changing of the guard in the Seattle Seahawks quarterback battle. On Tuesday, it was Drew Lock who took first team snaps over Geno Smith. According to The Seattle Times, this is the first time we have seen Lock as QB1 in all of training camp.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/seah ... ning-camp/

This doesn't necessarily mean that Lock is 'in the lead' in the QB battle. Pete may want to give him the same opportunity as he gave Geno, getting some work with the first string unit in this Thursday's game vs. the Bears.

[c_hawkbob]

This doesn't necessarily mean that Lock is 'in the lead' in the QB battle. Pete may want to give him the same opportunity as he gave Geno, getting some work with the first string unit in this Thursday's game vs. the Bears

Agreed, and as it should be.

[Aseahawkfan]

Lock has taken over first team snaps from Geno:

We may be witnessing a changing of the guard in the Seattle Seahawks quarterback battle. On Tuesday, it was Drew Lock who took first team snaps over Geno Smith. According to The Seattle Times, this is the first time we have seen Lock as QB1 in all of training camp.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/seah ... ning-camp/

This doesn't necessarily mean that Lock is 'in the lead' in the QB battle. Pete may want to give him the same opportunity as he gave Geno, getting some work with the first string unit in this Thursday's game vs. the Bears.

If Geno isn't clearly doing better, you need to give Lock a chance to run with the 1s to figure out how that looks.

[RiverDog]

Agreed with both of you.

This shouldn't come as a huge surprise, especially given that both played relatively equally last Saturday. As a matter of fact, I believe that I wondered about it out loud somewhere in this forum if Lock wasn't going to get the start this Thursday.

[RiverDog]

Back to the debate about Lock's strip sack fumble at the end of the Pittsburgh game. If you're still wondering if it was blocking scheme or a missed assignment by a lineman or running back, you need to take a peak at this video of Dave Wyman discussing it. He also has some pretty nice comments about Mafe and a few other observations of the first preseason game. Fast forward to 2:20 for his comments on Lock's fumble:

https://sports.mynorthwest.com/1652149/ ... on-opener/

[Hawktawk]

[quote="obiken]
Come on River, I look on you and CBob as the grownups in the room. You guys are not HawkTalk, there’s just no way I see Denver losing more than six games. I just don’t see how barring major injuries. You’ve got Nick Chubb, you’ve got great corners, Gregory who they got from the Cowboys, And a boatload of other defensive talent. I think we get killed against Denver, the only thing that might save our butts is coaching, and the fact that it’s the first game of the year. Moreover, yes they lost Patrick, but they still have Melvin Gordon who’s got some juice left in his legs, and the best young running back in football last year who had almost 1000 yards rushing. Yes, they lost their TE, but come on Russell took gadget wide receivers and made winners out of them year after year in Seattle. You’ve got a much better offensive line than he had here, again in despite the injury, they still got plenty of wide receiver talent. The boys in Vegas would say the over under on Denver is 10.5, bet the over.
Now to Seattle, come on River, we have two new young offensive tackles, we have DK Metcalf who is becoming rapidly a diva wide receiver. Penny nuff said there, if he can stay healthy, that’s a big if. OK, we might have running back by committee with Dallas and Homer, but I seriously doubt it. To bank on Drew Lock really, come on he fumbles the ball as we saw last week, and he makes poor decisions. Okay yeah he’s got some juice on his arm whoopee who doesn’t. Geno Smith is done, he’s average at best. Our defense, come on enough said there. Even if we were to go with PC down the road, it will take three or four years to remotely have a viable playoff team. I just don’t see us improving enough in our division, we might split with the 49ers but we’re gonna lose at least five other games in my view. I don’t see us winning if we’re lucky, six games this year. Vegas has us at 5.5, You know as well as I do those boys aren’t out to lose money. I am not adamant about it, I hope I am wrong, but how many on this site are talking about X's and O's like the 3-4, not the Willy's and Joe's. There's are reason for that...[/quote]
Hey Obiken
I’m 63 years old . Definitely grown up . And I have watched pro ball for 45 years . I’ve been right many times , some on a hunch . Looks like I’m a lot closer than ESPN to our line evaluation . I’ll be right about Geno /lock being adequate and occasionally excellent too. The most underestimated Seahawks are Pete Carroll and Geno smith .

And hey Asea if you’re reading , if you’re gonna jump on my predictions and call me a low class dirtbag for daring criticize his royal highness don’t call me a statistical ass for pointing out when I’m appearing to be correct . Sorry buddy it don’t fly with me. If we smoke denver I’ll surely be in here reminding you all of that prediction. We will see who has adult football intelligence and intuition.

I’ll wait for more criticism of merely pointing out there may be reasons for my optimism . Honestly I been on the forum 22 years and sometimes I don’t know wtf has happened to it .

[Hawktawk]

Pete said after naming Lock the unfortunately aborted starter that Geno remains #1 and I feel the same upon reflection . Lock didn’t do enough , especially on the blown read that flipped the scales . Genos performance was subtly underrated by most but not Pete .

I wonder what they do Thursday now . Play Geno the whole game or give a half or quarter to Eason .

[RiverDog]

Pete said after naming Lock the unfortunately aborted starter that Geno remains #1 and I feel the same upon reflection . Lock didn’t do enough , especially on the blown read that flipped the scales . Genos performance was subtly underrated by most but not Pete .

I wonder what they do Thursday now . Play Geno the whole game or give a half or quarter to Eason .

Geno won't play the whole game. No one plays an entire game during the preseason. They'd play some emergency QB before they'd force their starter to play the entire game.

[Hawktawk]

I have no problem with a half of Eason . He’s in the qb room . My bet we see it . He’s the biggest baddest shiny object of all .

[TriCitySam]

Pete said after naming Lock the unfortunately aborted starter that Geno remains #1 and I feel the same upon reflection . Lock didn’t do enough , especially on the blown read that flipped the scales . Genos performance was subtly underrated by most but not Pete .

I wonder what they do Thursday now . Play Geno the whole game or give a half or quarter to Eason .

Pete’s been pretty consistent from the start about Geno being #1, and was unlikely for that to change in the near term. As Pete said, Geno has been here and knows the offense. Drew will likely have his chance, but may not be for a while.

[Old but Slow]

It seems to me that the attention Lock has been given for his late fumble is ignoring that Geno lost a couple of games with late turnovers, and that was regular season. Two of a kind?

[RiverDog]

It seems to me that the attention Lock has been given for his late fumble is ignoring that Geno lost a couple of games with late turnovers, and that was regular season. Two of a kind?

Oh, no, you're wrong! That fumble in the Pittsburgh game wasn't Geno's fault, it was a great play by the best defensive end in the history of the game! There isn't a quarterback on the planet that wouldn't have fumbled the ball on that play. (where's the sarcasm symbol?)

[Aseahawkfan]

Oh, no, you're wrong! That fumble in the Pittsburgh game wasn't Geno's fault, it was a great play by the best defensive end in the history of the game! There isn't a quarterback on the planet that wouldn't have fumbled the ball on that play. (where's the sarcasm symbol?)

If hawktawk were the GM of another team, we could trade Geno and Penny for multiple 1st round picks.

[NorthHawk]

In the long term for this year, who starts at QB doesn’t really matter much.
Neither are very good.

[RiverDog]

In the long term for this year, who starts at QB doesn’t really matter much. Neither are very good.

Unfortunately, I have to agree. To coin a phrase that an esteemed colleague of ours is fond of using, we're just whistling in the graveyard. Both of these guys, for one reason or another, were flaming busts when given the opportunity to start. What are the odds that either one will suddenly "find it"?

[Aseahawkfan]

Unfortunately, I have to agree. To coin a phrase that an esteemed colleague of ours is fond of using, we're just whistling in the graveyard. Both of these guys, for one reason or another, were flaming busts when given the opportunity to start. What are the odds that either one will suddenly "find it"?

Depends on who you ask.

I think the chances of Penny, Lock, and Smith becoming winning starters is pretty low myself, but I'd love to see it happen mainly because it benefits the Seahawks.

[Hawktawk]

Geno came in on the 2 down 9 -7 in the 4th quarter vs the rams and went 98 yards and I’ve been on board ever since . He put as many points up ( 10) as Russ the entire second game . 131 yards , 23 rushing and a TD to DK. Yeah Lockett who never falls down did so on a little out after being tripped by a defender and Genos timing pass was doomed . So yeah he “ lost “ the game despite the most efficient effective corageous quarter vs the world champs in the last 2 years . Then yeah first start in 5 years on the road he was hit and sacked all night , 3 tipped passes and an attempted strip sack he somehow held onto the ball . He led Seattle on scoring drives in 4 of the last 5 regulation possessions including the only 2 minute drive of the season to get to overtime . In overtime he drove the team within 5 yards of field goal position before being sacked for the 5th time. Of the game . But he changed field position enough to get a stop and get another possession at which point Watt made a great play and stripped him as he broke up the middle . For the game he completed 72% of his passes with 3 tips and one that I couldn’t believe he got off with Watt on his throwing arm . Completed balls to 10 guys . But yeah his turnover lost the game . Fair enough . His last start was 80% completion , 2 TDs to DK , a rushing TD on a slam dunk over the top getting hit in the mouth . 31-7
Then I watched the midget get shut out and lose to 3 backups in the next 5 weeks , averaged 9 ppg first 3 back .

I’ve been right about Geno from day one . You are a bunch of sarcastic pricks allergic to crow . As I say 22 years In the forum is really unrecognizable . Being right is some kind of punishment in here . Doom and gloom or get harassed . Eat it .

GO HAWKS!!!!shut these gloomy mouths !

[NorthHawk]

So name the teams that Geno could replace the starting QB in the NFL today.
The only possibilities I could see are the Giants and the Texans - and those are maybe's as they look to have a future whereas Geno is near the end.
I seriously doubt he would be on a team if Seattle hadn't signed him as a backup a few years ago and now have a huge hole at QB.