Pittsburgh Preseason Game

[Aseahawkfan]

I am already in the Lock camp. He made some nice throws.

[jshawaii22]

Travis Homer looks lighter and real quick.
Coby Bryant got burned on the 2nd TD, but looks pretty good.
Bellore trying out at LB... not looking good to me.
All 3 of Pitts QB's drove straight down the field on their first drive against whatever D we had to score a easy TD.
No comment on the QB's. Does it really matter? Neither is a starting QB in the NFL.

[Aseahawkfan]

I am not real impressed by the defense right now. Not sure what Fangio's 3-4 scheme looks like, but my buddy tells me that is a 3-4. It looks a lot like Pete's 4-3 to me. Maybe someone on here can explain to me what Fangio's 3-4 looks like. I'm used to the Pittsburgh Zone Blitz 3-4 and in that scheme the rush LBs play off the line to disguise the pressure. In this Fangio 3-4, it looks like the rush backer plays on the line much like a 4-3. So I'm not sure what the advantage is. Maybe it is easier to shift the alignment so the rush backer can line up on either side thus aligning coverage to align in a stronger formation depending on where the offense lines up its receivers?

[Hawktawk]

Geno was ok . Victimized by a couple of key drops but showed mobility and calmness in the pocket . Lock made some nice throws. But seemed confused at key moments . Either can win 10 with the rest of the pieces functioning . That’s my concern with the defense . But week one preseason I’m cool . We are fine .

[trents]

The Hawk's running game was the most impressive piece to me. Both Homer and Dallas had a number of chunk plays. Picket was impressive and was the best QB on the field tonight. Smart, mobile and accurate. Hawks' defense needs some work. They were pushed around and often out of position.

[c_hawkbob]

Neither QB looked particularly bad or brilliant. I do think we'll wind up with Lock starting though. Homer looked real good both running and receiving.

Defense looks ragged on the back end but Poona looks real good as a 3-4 nose.

[Old but Slow]

The rookie class came to play. Some typical mistakes, but something to build on. Mafe, oh my.

Haard to rate the QBs, as Lock has not been playing with the first offense. Next game I would hope that we can see Lock start and play a half with the ones.

Very well played game for a preseason. Only 5 penalties total. A lot of fun plays, and a lot of bad ones. I enjoyed it.

[RiverDog]

Quarterbacking looked pretty equal. If I had to give a nod to anyone, it would be Lock as he seemed to handle himself better in the pocket, but it's a little apples vs. oranges as he played in the 2nd half against lesser competition. Stats were a near dead heat, with Geno going 10-15 for 100 yards, 0 TD's, 0 INT with one rushing TD and Lock 11-15 for 102, 2 TD's, 0 INT's and a fumble. Lock missed a presnap read then didn't do a head check to his blind side, the result of which was a sack fumble that lost the game for us.

Offensive line looked awfully suspect, got pushed around quite a bit by the Steeler's #1's. We didn't convert on a 3rd down until late in the 2nd half, continuing a trend that was established last season. I saw where Curhan got the start over Lucas at RT. Curhan actually looked pretty good playing guard.

Hometown hero Kenny Pickett looked very good, albeit it in the 2nd half. Tomlin is going to have a QB controversy on his hands taking a local player as a QB as there's going to be a lot of fan pressure to start him.

Mafe showed some real promise, made a very athletic play sacking a mobile QB on a 4th down. Taylor looked pretty good, could be a breakout season for him. DB's for the most part were in good position but couldn't make plays on the ball. A blown coverage that resulted in a gift TD. A dropped INT. Lots of missed tackles. Not sure if Barton is the answer at ILB. Bellore needs to stick to special teams.

All in all a pretty ho hum performance, some good things, some not so good. About what you'd expect out of a preseason game.

[NorthHawk]

The first pre season games are real difficult to make any real observations.
The Offenses and Defenses of both teams were vanilla for the most part and there is no scheming of plays.
As well, many of the #1s didn't see the field.

What it does do is see how the players do in one on one matchups and if they know their assignments.
Cross did OK in pass protection and Lucas mauled a couple of players on run plays - much like Breno used to do.
The rookie CBs seem to have some promise and Mafe could be a real find. In these first games, the tackling is always suspect and it showed last night but it will get better.
The QBs are about what we should expect from them this year. Some good, some bad, but not game winners by themselves. Maybe Lock might do something special because
he's still pretty young, but expect inconsistency at QB.

Overall for me, it felt a little like the changing of the guard with a glimpse of the future with some of the rookies who did fairly well in their first live game.

[TriCitySam]

Overall, a pretty good performance by the OL - Cross was near perfect in pass blocking, allowing no pressures. A lot of young guys playing, 2nd string and a lot of 3rd string guys. Look at the list of targets and tackles, most names you don't recognize. Pickett, Geno and Lock all had similar numbers, Lock had a 131 QB rating to Genos 85. Rookies in secondary (Woolen, Bryant), looked like that. It'll be fun to see how the team progresses.

[obiken]

It was an exhibition game, and a loss, a loss against a team that is almost as dysfunctional at qb as we are, I wouldnt take too much outta this game at all. Taylor impressed me thats about it.

[Aseahawkfan]

I was watching videos on the Fangio 3-4 defense as I was expecting us to look more like a Pittsburgh zone blitz team. I guess Fangio's 3-4 system is more interested in disguising coverage. The NT is lining up in the zero technique and we use a stand up LB to rush the passer, but we usually have that guy in position each down and it looks a lot closer to a 4-3 to me along the line. But the key difference is how the NT lines up and how the coverage positions in Fangio's 3-4 as the rush can set up from either side with coverage adjusting based on how the WRs line up. It was interesting to see as my initial thought was it looks a lot like Pete's modified LEO defense, but as I watched more and learned more about the Fangio defense I can see what they're doing now.

Though the defense didn't perform particularly well giving up 32 points and getting run on, we won't see its true strength until the starters are set and we start scheming. It looks to have advantages in disguising coverages but will require good play from our secondary making sure to read and react well to what the opposing offense is doing.

[Old but Slow]

Interesting that Abe Lucas had the most snaps of anyone on the offense, and he looked good doing it. That is a big plus along with how Cross played, as well as some good play from their reserves. They did not look so good in the first quarter when Curhan was at RT, although I don't think that was deciding.

I am most excited about the pass rush. Taylor, Mafe, Robinson, my oh my. And we saw some good interior pressure from Adams and Harris. Constant pressure on a QB can have a big impact for the whole defense.

And once the DBs get healthy and with promising rookies, we could see some action.

The problem is whether we can stop the run, especially off-tackle where our pass rushers need to show that they can tackle.

[Hawktawk]

Interesting that Abe Lucas had the most snaps of anyone on the offense, and he looked good doing it. That is a big plus along with how Cross played, as well as some good play from their reserves. They did not look so good in the first quarter when Curhan was at RT, although I don't think that was deciding.

I am most excited about the pass rush. Taylor, Mafe, Robinson, my oh my. And we saw some good interior pressure from Adams and Harris. Constant pressure on a QB can have a big impact for the whole defense.

And once the DBs get healthy and with promising rookies, we could see some action.

The problem is whether we can stop the run, especially off-tackle where our pass rushers need to show that they can tackle.

Great observations. This is not a dog meat 32 ranked team

[trents]

I'd be inclined to cut Nick Bellore some slack at this point. LB is a new position for him and he is a very versatile athlete.

[RiverDog]

I'd be inclined to cut Nick Bellore some slack at this point. LB is a new position for him and he is a very versatile athlete.

The position might be new for him, but tackling isn't. Maybe it's just rust, but he looked horrible out there.

[Hawktawk]

I'd be inclined to cut Nick Bellore some slack at this point. LB is a new position for him and he is a very versatile athlete.

Rd”
The position might be new for him, but tackling isn't. Maybe it's just rust, but he looked horrible out there.[/quote]


I was surprised by Bellores performance . He’s played LB before and looked pretty good . At least he was getting to the spot , Just not wrapping up .

[NorthHawk]

They seem to be tackling differently than they used to. It seems it's more of a hit the guy hard style or something than the drive through the legs like they did in the LoB years.

[Hawktawk]

I wonder if its just rust from the limited amount of contact. If it looks that bad next game I start to worry. Im counting on a much improved defense for my lofty predictions. PC said this AM tackling was his biggest concern in the game and that he actually liked seeing both QBs play from behind as it shows their ability to do things under pressure.
Sunny day Pete. Love that guy

[RiverDog]

Here's a good YouTube video of all the offensive plays that Drew Lock participated in. He really had a nice game going, was throwing the ball well, and was making good decisions. That was, until that last fateful play where he was sacked/fumbled.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-6QcW8x3Qo

If you look at that last play, ie the strip sack, the safety/linebacker had begun to creep up to the LOS on Lock's left a few moments before the snap, which is the hot read that he missed. But even after he missed the read, Lock still should have had the pocket awareness to know that an outside blitz was a possibility as you would have to assume that he saw the safety creeping up to the LOS. He was in the gun and was squared up with the LOS looking down the middle of the field when he delivered the ball, so it wasn't a true blind side hit. He wouldn't have even had to turn his head, just a quick glance to see if the safety was coming. Had he done so, he would have seen the defender and had time to either take the sack or try to reverse spin out of it rather than exposing himself to the strip sack.

Lock has been in the league for 3 full seasons and has made 21 starts. These are the types of mistakes that people have talked about that is keeping him from taking that next step and likely one of the reasons why the Broncos gave up on him. Those things, ie hot reads and pocket presence, isn't something that's exclusive to one offense or another. It's a common attribute that quarterbacks in any offense must have to be successful.

In any event, it's just a preseason game and the first one at that, but it's something that we should be aware of as he has had a problem with turnovers.

[Agent 86]

So I am gonna tell you who I though the stars of the game were.

Mike Rob and Mike B. Oh yeah, these 2 had a chemistry going and Mike B. on the sidelines was fantastic with his questions. Mike Rob I thought gave great analysis and had awesome insight from a players point of view. Too bad we will only get these guys in pre season.

So I see these 2 guys are back in the fold. I know I saw Sherm was at one of the practices. With Bennett and Sherman, I always thought they had a beef with Pete on how things ended and they wouldn't show up again. But here they are, and looks like Pete and them are getting along great.

Which poses my conspiracy theory question, are those 2 hanging around camp and the team again because of a certain someone who is no longer in the organization? I know I am grasping at straws here with that question, but based on some articles in the past I think maybe, just maybe, it's not a coincidence? For the record, I am not an RW3 basher either.

Anyhow, I wanted to give props to both Mike's, they had me laughing and really enjoying the banter along with Menefee.

[RiverDog]

So I am gonna tell you who I though the stars of the game were.

Mike Rob and Mike B. Oh yeah, these 2 had a chemistry going and Mike B. on the sidelines was fantastic with his questions. Mike Rob I thought gave great analysis and had awesome insight from a players point of view. Too bad we will only get these guys in pre season.

So I see these 2 guys are back in the fold. I know I saw Sherm was at one of the practices. With Bennett and Sherman, I always thought they had a beef with Pete on how things ended and they wouldn't show up again. But here they are, and looks like Pete and them are getting along great.

Which poses my conspiracy theory question, are those 2 hanging around camp and the team again because of a certain someone who is no longer in the organization? I know I am grasping at straws here with that question, but based on some articles in the past I think maybe, just maybe, it's not a coincidence? For the record, I am not an RW3 basher either.

Anyhow, I wanted to give props to both Mike's, they had me laughing and really enjoying the banter along with Menefee.

They had an event called Legends Day, with in addition to Bennet and Sherman, included players like Doug Baldwin, Cliff Avril, KJ Wright, Michael Robinson, and Jermaine Kearse all returning to the training facility. Sherman has always maintained a home in Seattle and seemed to have buried the hatchet last season as he publically stated that he was open to a possible return. Bennett always seemed to me to have had more of an issue with Pete, with rumors of him reading a book during team meetings, and as you could tell from the broadcast last Saturday, seems to have made amends.

Bottom line is that I'm not subscribing to your conspiracy theory.

[Agent 86]

They had an event called Legends Day, with in addition to Bennet and Sherman, included players like Doug Baldwin, Cliff Avril, KJ Wright, Michael Robinson, and Jermaine Kearse all returning to the training facility. Sherman has always maintained a home in Seattle and seemed to have buried the hatchet last season as he publically stated that he was open to a possible return. Bennett always seemed to me to have had more of an issue with Pete, with rumors of him reading a book during team meetings, and as you could tell from the broadcast last Saturday, seems to have made amends.

Bottom line is that I'm not subscribing to your conspiracy theory.

Aah Ok River, thanks for the feedback. I was not aware of the Legends Day thing, I just saw Sherm was at a practice, didn't know all the others were there.

Heh heh, I know that question was pretty desperate, thought I would stir it up a bit and see if anyone bit. You shot me down pronto

[RiverDog]

They had an event called Legends Day, with in addition to Bennet and Sherman, included players like Doug Baldwin, Cliff Avril, KJ Wright, Michael Robinson, and Jermaine Kearse all returning to the training facility. Sherman has always maintained a home in Seattle and seemed to have buried the hatchet last season as he publicly stated that he was open to a possible return. Bennett always seemed to me to have had more of an issue with Pete, with rumors of him reading a book during team meetings, and as you could tell from the broadcast last Saturday, seems to have made amends.

Bottom line is that I'm not subscribing to your conspiracy theory.

Aah Ok River, thanks for the feedback. I was not aware of the Legends Day thing, I just saw Sherm was at a practice, didn't know all the others were there.

Heh heh, I know that question was pretty desperate, thought I would stir it up a bit and see if anyone bit. You shot me down pronto

Not quite. Just wait till Hawktawk checks in and sees your post. He'll take it and run with it so fast that it will make your head spin.

[Hawktawk]

I buy it. It fits right in with my addition by subtraction theory . I caught Albert Breer with Mike Salk the other morning . He described Russels orbit being in place in Denver , having everything just his way . He said as for the hawks “ Russell had become such a distraction over the last couple of years it was affecting everything the organization was trying to do . Described a sense of “ relief” around the VMac . I suspect it’s the same in the locker room .
I buy it . I called it before I heard it elsewhere .

[RiverDog]

Told you!

[Aseahawkfan]

I buy it. It fits right in with my addition by subtraction theory . I caught Albert Breer with Mike Salk the other morning . He described Russels orbit being in place in Denver , having everything just his way . He said as for the hawks “ Russell had become such a distraction over the last couple of years it was affecting everything the organization was trying to do . Described a sense of “ relief” around the VMac . I suspect it’s the same in the locker room .
I buy it . I called it before I heard it elsewhere .

No. You made it up then and now. You really have no idea what happened behind the scenes or what people feel at the VMAC about Russ. I know I've listened to a lot of interviews from players and no one has been down on Russ that played with him. KJ thought highly of Russ. So did Tyler Lockett. So did Gregg Olsen. So not sure why you keep making this claim when there is nothing to indicate as much other than Pete and Russ having a falling out that we'll never know exactly what happened.

All you need to care about is if Pete fails to make the playoffs this year, he will start feeling the heat on his job. If he does, he might extend himself a few more years, but just making the playoffs in Seattle isn't enough any more. People want to compete for a Super Bowl again and if that doesn't happen fairly quickly, the fan base will start finding other things to do on game day and it will affect viewers. So Pete needs to be right and hit big on this draft and it has to start showing up on the field or the team ownership is going to be looking at making changes.

That's where we're at in the team building and head coach cycle. There's no more room for excuses or failure to compete in the playoffs. Pete and John need to show they're getting it done or the heat is going to be on them heavy.

[NorthHawk]

I buy it. It fits right in with my addition by subtraction theory . I caught Albert Breer with Mike Salk the other morning . He described Russels orbit being in place in Denver , having everything just his way . He said as for the hawks “ Russell had become such a distraction over the last couple of years it was affecting everything the organization was trying to do . Described a sense of “ relief” around the VMac . I suspect it’s the same in the locker room .
I buy it . I called it before I heard it elsewhere .

Any tension comes from knowing one of your leaders isn't happy and will probably leave.
It doesn't mean he isn't playing well or even that it effected others negatively as his performance and practice habits didn't change outside of injury.
You're making it sound like there was this great power struggle and battle of wills on the team. There's no indication of that at all. People can be
unhappy with their job but still be an exceptional performer. It's called being a professional.

[Hawktawk]

I guess Albert Breer knows nothing , Dave Wyman ? There is plenty of reporting there was tension and dysfunction due to an unhappy qb who made it public . Rd shared an article from 2017 ESPN detailing dysfunction as far back as that.I have great friends I can’t work with .

Professional courtesy aside I can find quotes that tell me whether they liked Wilson or didn’t they are relieved for a new start . Pete and John seemed to be as well . We will have perhaps one of the most magical fascinating matchup gems ever on MNF. Tutor vs student . Hof coach vs guy coaching his first game in the league . A guy who got relentlessly booed during his Sue Bird tribute facing the 12s for 3 hours . It’s a tall order .

As for Pete he’s not planning to tank . I don’t think he will have a job if he has a losing record this year anyway .

[Aseahawkfan]

I guess Albert Breer knows nothing , Dave Wyman ? There is plenty of reporting there was tension and dysfunction due to an unhappy qb who made it public . Rd shared an article from 2017 ESPN detailing dysfunction as far back as that.I have great friends I can’t work with .

Professional courtesy aside I can find quotes that tell me whether they liked Wilson or didn’t they are relieved for a new start . Pete and John seemed to be as well . We will have perhaps one of the most magical fascinating matchup gems ever on MNF. Tutor vs student . Hof coach vs guy coaching his first game in the league . A guy who got relentlessly booed during his Sue Bird tribute facing the 12s for 3 hours . It’s a tall order .

As for Pete he’s not planning to tank . I don’t think he will have a job if he has a losing record this year anyway .

I've listened to Dave Wyman. He still thinks Russ is great and he's not sure what happened, but he did speculate they're must have been tension for this to happen. But Wyman thinks Russ is still a great player, great guy, and he still likes him. He never once referred to Russ as not prepared, checked out, or anything of the kind you have.

Albert Breer is a reporter who found some source to give him some information and he's purely speculating.

You know what? It absolutely 100% does not matter whatsoever. If Pete fails on the field, no one will care about the speculation. Sports is results driven. So if we don't see the results of the move in a positive manner in Seattle, then fans won't be happy. Period. So all this "addition by subtraction" crap you're selling us like some used car salesman comes down to results. Either we're competing for Super Bowls again very soon or we're not and Pete's going to be out the door very soon. That's how it is going to work.

Pete won't be tanking. His job is on the line and his reputation. Pete don't tank for anyone. So he's going to give it everything he has. If he fails, it will be because he and John drafted badly and made bad decisions. No more excuses. No more coordinators to throw under the bus. No more QB to throw under the bus. No more players are degrading from age. This is Pete's team again, young draft picks, following his philosophy, it's all on him now to sink or swim.

[RiverDog]

Pete won't be tanking. His job is on the line and his reputation. Pete don't tank for anyone. So he's going to give it everything he has. If he fails, it will be because he and John drafted badly and made bad decisions. No more excuses. No more coordinators to throw under the bus. No more QB to throw under the bus. No more players are degrading from age. This is Pete's team again, young draft picks, following his philosophy, it's all on him now to sink or swim.

I don't know how this thing about Pete tanking got started. No one in here that I know of suggested that he'd intentionally lose games.

[Aseahawkfan]

I don't know how this thing about Pete tanking got started. No one in here that I know of suggested that he'd intentionally lose games.

I don't know either. No one ever indicated Pete was tanking.

I have a ludicrous dream of us having the 1st and 2nd pick and getting the next Peyton Manning and Aaron Donald, but I'm not dumb enough to think that will happen.

Pete always tries his best regardless of who he has to play with. Russ always tries his best regardless of who is there. Every NFL player always tries their best regardless of how things are going. You don't even make it the NFL if you aren't ready to go hard all the time in the good and bad times. Players like Randy Moss when he was on the Raiders was obviously dogging it, but that is are super rare. He's one of the only players I've seen where I was watching the game and went, "This dude isn't even trying that hard." Most NFL players, coaches, and management are doing their best to win. Some just aren't very good or things don't work out well for a variety of reasons.

[RiverDog]

I don't know how this thing about Pete tanking got started. No one in here that I know of suggested that he'd intentionally lose games.

I don't know either. No one ever indicated Pete was tanking.

I have a ludicrous dream of us having the 1st and 2nd pick and getting the next Peyton Manning and Aaron Donald, but I'm not dumb enough to think that will happen.

Pete always tries his best regardless of who he has to play with. Russ always tries his best regardless of who is there. Every NFL player always tries their best regardless of how things are going. You don't even make it the NFL if you aren't ready to go hard all the time in the good and bad times. Players like Randy Moss when he was on the Raiders was obviously dogging it, but that is are super rare. He's one of the only players I've seen where I was watching the game and went, "This dude isn't even trying that hard." Most NFL players, coaches, and management are doing their best to win. Some just aren't very good or things don't work out well for a variety of reasons.

It's not just Pete. No coach will intentionally throw games. There were some rumors early this year that Brian Flores was ordered to lose games, but that came from his owner...supposedly.

Coaches are almost by definition very egocentric, and are very conscious of their career W/L record. I know I would be if I were a head coach.

[Aseahawkfan]

It's not just Pete. No coach will intentionally throw games. There were some rumors early this year that Brian Flores was ordered to lose games, but that came from his owner...supposedly.

Coaches are almost by definition very egocentric, and are very conscious of their career W/L record. I know I would be if I were a head coach.

I share that view with players as well. You don't even make it to the NFL level if you think about tanking.

[RiverDog]

It's not just Pete. No coach will intentionally throw games. There were some rumors early this year that Brian Flores was ordered to lose games, but that came from his owner...supposedly.

Coaches are almost by definition very egocentric, and are very conscious of their career W/L record. I know I would be if I were a head coach.

I share that view with players as well. You don't even make it to the NFL level if you think about tanking.

Even more so with the players. Why would they want to look bad? So they can get cut and have someone else replace them?

[obiken]

I agree with you ASHF in General however we go 1-4 or 1-5, I think the wheels could start coming off the wagon especially in the locker room. I am NOT wishing for doom, or preparing for it like I used to, I would be shocked to see us win 8 games, but I am more about personnel than about schemes, I just dont see us having the play makers to do the job anymore.

[Aseahawkfan]

I agree with you ASHF in General however we go 1-4 or 1-5, I think the wheels could start coming off the wagon especially in the locker room. I am NOT wishing for doom, or preparing for it like I used to, I would be shocked to see us win 8 games, but I am more about personnel than about schemes, I just dont see us having the play makers to do the job anymore.

I'm seeing some cracks in the armor myself.

The run defense don't look great. You would have thought our D-line would have dominated Pittsburgh's scrubs given we were playing quite a few starters across the D-line.

The CBs gave up 100 plus passer rating to each no name rookie QB on Pittsburgh. As far as we know those are probably our starting CBs or at least one of them.

Now Kenneth Walker is dealing with a hernia which will keep him out for a while. It's never great to start the season with a hernia as a RB.

Lock is on COVID quarantine and now can't practice. So if anything happens to Geno, we got a guy who didn't get a lot of time with the ones.

Our O-line looked good against the Pittsburgh scrubs. But so did Pittsburgh O-line given we gave up even more yards than Pitt gave up rushing.

Things are going to get harder, not easier as we play better teams with better QBs and units. It could be real bad this year, especially if our D-line keeps getting bullied against the run.