Watson/QB's

[NorthHawk]

The punishments in the NFL are all over the map, so it's not surprising it's only 6 games.
Josh Gordon got years for smoking pot, There's a player who's name escapes me is on an indefinite suspension for betting on his own team to win, and Jameis Winston got 3 games for so called non violent sexual assault.
So it's no surprise that the suspension is as it is and that Goodell will have to make the decision upon appeal.
The NFL wanted a female judge to in part take away the perception of 80 year old men deciding the fate of women and now it's backfired as women's groups are up in arms.
We'll see what the final tally will be, but it might mean a revisit by the NFLPA if it's too heavy. I don't think it's strike worthy, but even more trust will be lost when the agreed upon arbiter is overruled by a representative
of the NFL (Goodell) while being opposed by the Union.

[RiverDog]

The punishments in the NFL are all over the map, so it's not surprising it's only 6 games.
Josh Gordon got years for smoking pot, There's a player who's name escapes me is on an indefinite suspension for betting on his own team to win, and Jameis Winston got 3 games for so called non violent sexual assault.
So it's no surprise that the suspension is as it is and that Goodell will have to make the decision upon appeal.
The NFL wanted a female judge to in part take away the perception of 80 year old men deciding the fate of women and now it's backfired as women's groups are up in arms.
We'll see what the final tally will be, but it might mean a revisit by the NFLPA if it's too heavy. I don't think it's strike worthy, but even more trust will be lost when the agreed upon arbiter is overruled by a representative
of the NFL (Goodell) while being opposed by the Union.

The player that got suspended indefinitely for betting on his own team is Calvin Ridley. In addition to his at least year long suspension, he'll have to forfeit over $11M. If Watson's 6 week suspension stands, he'll forfeit less than $1M. It's one of the reasons why I think that the arbitrator's decision is outrageous. She was appointed to help bring some sanity to this process, and all she's done is make it worse.

Like I keep saying, two wrongs don't make a right. Yes, Ridley's suspension was over the top, but is letting Watson off with a slap of the wrists a remedy? It would have made more sense had she said that there was a double standard as to how the players were treated vs. owners and/or that there wasn't enough evidence conclude that a violation of the Personal Conduct Policy had occurred, accepted the union's proposal, and not suspended him at all. Once she issued the suspension, she accepted the league's argument that a violation had occurred.

[Oly]

It would have made more sense had she said that there was a double standard as to how the players were treated vs. owners and/or that there wasn't enough evidence conclude that a violation of the Personal Conduct Policy had occurred, accepted the union's proposal, and not suspended him at all. Once she issued the suspension, she accepted the league's argument that a violation had occurred.

Exactly.

[obiken]

It would have made more sense had she said that there was a double standard as to how the players were treated vs. owners and/or that there wasn't enough evidence conclude that a violation of the Personal Conduct Policy had occurred, accepted the union's proposal, and not suspended him at all. Once she issued the suspension, she accepted the league's argument that a violation had occurred.

There's plenty of Hypocrisy to go around River, the Browns fans are all in on DW. Moreover, name me a team that needed an upgrade at qb that wouldnt have taken Watson at a decent price, including the Hawks.

[Hawktawk]

Let’s see how it goes . Dude hasn’t played in a year and it will be around a year and a half minimum . What’s his game going to look like ? I’d heard he wasn’t sharp passing . I hope he’s terrible .

[RiverDog]

Let’s see how it goes . Dude hasn’t played in a year and it will be around a year and a half minimum . What’s his game going to look like ? I’d heard he wasn’t sharp passing . I hope he’s terrible .

I'm not that much into rooting against individuals, but it wouldn't hurt my feelings if he did a face plant. The only problem is that it has to happen to the Browns. That fan base has suffered more than any other in the league. I'd rather have seen him playing and failing for the Cowboys or Redskins/Commanders.

[Hawktawk]

Let’s see how it goes . Dude hasn’t played in a year and it will be around a year and a half minimum . What’s his game going to look like ? I’d heard he wasn’t sharp passing . I hope he’s terrible .

RD” I'm not that much into rooting against individuals, but it wouldn't hurt my feelings if he did a face plant. The only problem is that it has to happen to the Browns. That fan base has suffered more than any other in the league. I'd rather have seen him playing and failing for the Cowboys or Redskins/Commanders.[/quote]


I have no problem rooting against individual players including a couple of our former guys . I rooted against worthless burger his entire career . Hutch ? I didn’t want him winning a single thing . I’m a ruthless fan .

[RiverDog]

I have no problem rooting against individual players including a couple of our former guys . I rooted against worthless burger his entire career . Hutch ? I didn’t want him winning a single thing . I’m a ruthless fan .

Yeah, I used to be that way, rooted like hell against Alex Rodriguez, and I did root against Aaron Rodgers last season because of his lying about his vaccination status and his buddying up with that moonbat Joe Rogan. But more times than not, I'm more indifferent towards them vs. actively rooting against them. But I do have my most hated teams. I root against the Cowboys at all times and the Redskins and Raiders are near the top of my chit list.

[Hawktawk]

I have no problem rooting against individual players including a couple of our former guys . I rooted against worthless burger his entire career . Hutch ? I didn’t want him winning a single thing . I’m a ruthless fan .

“, I used to be that way, rooted like hell against Alex Rodriguez, and I did root against Aaron Rodgers last season because of his lying about his vaccination status and his buddying up with that moonbat Joe Rogan. But more times than not, I'm more indifferent towards them vs. actively rooting against them. But I do have my most hated teams. I root against the Cowboys at all times and the Redskins and Raiders are near the top of my chit list.[/quote]

I’m
I’m a big raiders fan twice a year now never had much of a problem with the skins and I recall a guy named palmetto warrior after super bowl XL who came on the forum and was quite supportive . Angry at the league . Steelers ? Always . Anyone in our division . Hate every guy , wish them no luck other then I couldn’t hate Larry Fitzgerald. The hell with them . As for Cleveland fans so sad . Had a guy win a playoff game , booed him out of town a year later and now embracing an entitled pervert who would be doing time if he weren’t a fabulously wealthy superstar . If they didn’t win a game it would serve them right

[RiverDog]

I’m a big raiders fan twice a year now never had much of a problem with the skins and I recall a guy named palmetto warrior after super bowl XL who came on the forum and was quite supportive . Angry at the league . Steelers ? Always . Anyone in our division . Hate every guy , wish them no luck other then I couldn’t hate Larry Fitzgerald. The hell with them . As for Cleveland fans so sad . Had a guy win a playoff game , booed him out of town a year later and now embracing an entitled pervert who would be doing time if he weren’t a fabulously wealthy superstar . If they didn’t win a game it would serve them right

My dislike of the Raiders goes back to the days of the old AFL. The Raiders were known as a dirty team, plus my dad liked the Raiders, so naturally, I had to root against his favorite and became a huge Chiefs fan. Later, I didn't care for the way Al Davis treated the city of Oakland, leaving them for LA.

I've been pretty neutral about the Steelers. We went back there a few years ago to watch them play the Hawks and their fans were as nice as they could be. We had a fun time with them after the game. As far as the Redskins goes, I dislike them for the same reason I dislike the Cowboys, ie their owner.

Cleveland got screwed out of the original Browns when Art Modell moved them to Baltimore and left behind one of the most dedicated fan bases in the league. I've been sympathetic to them since.

[Aseahawkfan]

I only dislike teams we're facing in a given week or the Cowboys while Jerry Jones owns them and the Redskins while Snyder owns them or a Division rival, them I want to see fail all the time, every week.

I don't much care for Aaron Rodgers because of his stupid Discount Double Check pew pew symbol. Just stupid.

Never disliked Hutch. Ruskell messed that up. I wanted Ruskell gone after that. Glad Paul Allen saw early on Ruskell and all his mistakes had to go.

[c_hawkbob]

Back to the OP, don't count your chickens before they hatch, the NFL is appealing the 6 game/no fine slap on the wrist: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/343 ... suspension

[RiverDog]

Here's something that I didn't realize:

The players’ union has until the end of business Friday to respond in writing. The union could challenge the appeal ruling in federal court, setting the stage for a prolonged fight. Both sides could still reach a settlement to avoid a lengthy battle. The NFLPA didn’t immediately comment on the appeal.

I thought that whatever Goodell decides was the end of the story, but apparently not.

[Aseahawkfan]

Here's something that I didn't realize:

The players’ union has until the end of business Friday to respond in writing. The union could challenge the appeal ruling in federal court, setting the stage for a prolonged fight. Both sides could still reach a settlement to avoid a lengthy battle. The NFLPA didn’t immediately comment on the appeal.

I thought that whatever Goodell decides was the end of the story, but apparently not.

Probably negotiated in the union contract.

[NorthHawk]

I’ve heard both.
What you quoted and Shefter read a clause in the CBA that said in part both parties agree that the decision of the final
arbiter (Goodall or his designate) is final and both parties accept the results. That was paraphrased but that’s the thrust
of the clause. So who knows how it will unfold, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it does end up in court.
Then it could get ugly if the Union gets information about owners to introduce a defense of Watson considering the
clause in the CBA that they are to be held to a higher standard.

[Aseahawkfan]

I’ve heard both.
What you quoted and Shefter read a clause in the CBA that said in part both parties agree that the decision of the final
arbiter (Goodall or his designate) is final and both parties accept the results. That was paraphrased but that’s the thrust
of the clause. So who knows how it will unfold, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it does end up in court.
Then it could get ugly if the Union gets information about owners to introduce a defense of Watson considering the
clause in the CBA that they are to be held to a higher standard.

We all know owners aren't held to a higher standard.

[c_hawkbob]

Are we not all held to higher standards than our bosses?

[Hawktawk]

Great point Bob. With rank comes privelidge. Also responsibility but rank trumps .

[Aseahawkfan]

Are we not all held to higher standards than our bosses?

Most of us don't have it written down in a contract.

If you mean your boss will drive the bus over you if he can to avoid taking the hit himself, then you are correct. I've seen that a lot.

In the old days, the owners were more like mafia bosses using their influence to keep their players free from trouble by covering everything up and sweeping it all under the carpet. If Watson did what he did in the 70s and 80s, we probably never even hear about it. But now too many eyes watching, social media is too powerful to cover up, and you gotta a lot scandals that make it to the public even if not from the news.

If the owners wrote it down in the contract, could be a legal issue.

[Hawktawk]

They were furnishing NDAs and have settled 30 lawsuits , 6 more then filed against Watson . Frankly I think the guy is a pervert that sexually assaulted women but the owners really don’t have a leg to stand on credibility wise .

[RiverDog]

Are we not all held to higher standards than our bosses?

Nope. I was once a fleet supervisor for about 9 years. Our truck drivers, in order to satisfy the terms of their CDL's, not only had to submit to random drug testing via our company policy, but also had to submit to random drug testing by the DOT in order to satisfy the terms of their CDL's. The DOT's standards are quite a bit stricter, for example, a DUI is considered .04 for a truck driver with a CDL, .08 for everyone else.

I pointed that out once in a meeting and got a bunch of dirty looks.

Sorry to have veer off topic.

[c_hawkbob]

Are we not all held to higher standards than our bosses?

Nope. I was once a fleet supervisor for about 9 years. Our truck drivers, in order to satisfy the terms of their CDL's, not only had to submit to random drug testing via our company policy, but also had to submit to random drug testing by the DOT in order to satisfy the terms of their CDL's. The DOT's standards are quite a bit stricter, for example, a DUI is considered .04 for a truck driver with a CDL, .08 for everyone else.

I pointed that out once in a meeting and got a bunch of dirty looks.

Sorry to have veer off topic.

Soooo they were subject to higher standards than their bosses ... how is that a "Nope"?

[RiverDog]

Back to topic.

I just read an article about how the so called independent arbitrator tipped her hand as to how she would rule in the case well before she heard all of the arguments:

If you were going to trace the NFL’s Deshaun Watson appeal back to a starting point, to a juncture where it became likely the league was going to overturn a decision from independent arbitrator Sue L. Robinson, it would have been early in the disciplinary hearing attended by Watson and his legal camp, along with representatives from the NFL and NFL Players Association.

That’s when the league’s lawyers were first informed by Robinson that the NFL very likely was not going to land the indefinite one-year suspension it was seeking for the Cleveland Browns quarterback, multiple sources familiar with the proceedings told Yahoo Sports.

It was a revelation that Robinson delivered in front of everyone in attendance, sources said. It instantly established an eyebrow-raising blow to the NFL’s effort to impose a landmark suspension of Watson, who was accused of sexual misconduct or sexual assault against multiple women, a violation of the league's personal conduct policy. It was a moment that surprised some in attendance, who wrongly assumed Robinson wouldn’t tip her hand on a potential ruling in the middle of the process.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/nf ... r-AA10hKmG

That's outrageous, that someone hired as an independent arbitrator would prejudge the case having not heard all of the evidence to be presented by both sides. She even admitted that not only had the Personal Conduct Policy had been breached, she called Watson's personal conduct “the most egregious” the NFL has ever seen.

And it seems that if Goodell rules as expected and suspends Watson for a year, that the union will take it to court"

Two sources familiar with talks between the NFL and Watson’s legal camp previously told Yahoo Sports that Watson's team and the union have already decided to challenge the NFL in court, should the league appeal Robinson’s decision and then suspend Watson for one year.

So yeah, it's going to get ugly.

[RiverDog]

Are we not all held to higher standards than our bosses?

Nope. I was once a fleet supervisor for about 9 years. Our truck drivers, in order to satisfy the terms of their CDL's, not only had to submit to random drug testing via our company policy, but also had to submit to random drug testing by the DOT in order to satisfy the terms of their CDL's. The DOT's standards are quite a bit stricter, for example, a DUI is considered .04 for a truck driver with a CDL, .08 for everyone else.

I pointed that out once in a meeting and got a bunch of dirty looks.

Sorry to have veer off topic.

Soooo they were subject to higher standards than their bosses ... how is that a "Nope"?

Ahh, my bad. I misread your statement. Thanks for the correction.

[NorthHawk]

Back to topic.

I just read an article about how the so called independent arbitrator tipped her hand as to how she would rule in the case well before she heard all of the arguments:

If you were going to trace the NFL’s Deshaun Watson appeal back to a starting point, to a juncture where it became likely the league was going to overturn a decision from independent arbitrator Sue L. Robinson, it would have been early in the disciplinary hearing attended by Watson and his legal camp, along with representatives from the NFL and NFL Players Association.

That’s when the league’s lawyers were first informed by Robinson that the NFL very likely was not going to land the indefinite one-year suspension it was seeking for the Cleveland Browns quarterback, multiple sources familiar with the proceedings told Yahoo Sports.

It was a revelation that Robinson delivered in front of everyone in attendance, sources said. It instantly established an eyebrow-raising blow to the NFL’s effort to impose a landmark suspension of Watson, who was accused of sexual misconduct or sexual assault against multiple women, a violation of the league's personal conduct policy. It was a moment that surprised some in attendance, who wrongly assumed Robinson wouldn’t tip her hand on a potential ruling in the middle of the process.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/nf ... r-AA10hKmG

That's outrageous, that someone hired as an independent arbitrator would prejudge the case having not heard all of the evidence to be presented by both sides. She even admitted that not only had the Personal Conduct Policy had been breached, she called Watson's personal conduct “the most egregious” the NFL has ever seen.

And it seems that if Goodell rules as expected and suspends Watson for a year, that the union will take it to court"

Two sources familiar with talks between the NFL and Watson’s legal camp previously told Yahoo Sports that Watson's team and the union have already decided to challenge the NFL in court, should the league appeal Robinson’s decision and then suspend Watson for one year.

So yeah, it's going to get ugly.

The ruling made it clear she found him guilty of gross misconduct and all of what the NFL had claimed, but she referred to precedent in her punishment and thus gave him 6 games.
It's the NFL's own fault for not having taken these things very seriously in the past. As well, Goodell was the front man for much of the punishment and it has been all over the map
as we've touched on previously. So her decision could have been harsh or weak and it turned out to be weak.
Now we will see the fallout of the decision of the Union to agree to the clause that said an appeal would go to the Commissioner or his designate in the case of appeal. It was a mistake
on their part it would seem if they don't get what they want.

Regarding going to court, here is the clause in the contract the might not permit it.
It's from PFT

Any factual findings and evidentiary determinations of the Disciplinary Officer will be binding to the parties on appeal, and the decision of the Commissioner or his designee, which may overturn, reduce, modify or increase the discipline previously issued, will be final and binding on all parties.”

[RiverDog]

Regarding going to court, here is the clause in the contract the might not permit it.
It's from PFT

Any factual findings and evidentiary determinations of the Disciplinary Officer will be binding to the parties on appeal, and the decision of the Commissioner or his designee, which may overturn, reduce, modify or increase the discipline previously issued, will be final and binding on all parties.”

But is that not only within the confines of the CBA? The way I read it, there is nothing stopping them from taking the case to a federal court. Companies and unions cannot prevent an entity from pursuing legal action against them.

[NorthHawk]

That may be true, but don't most courts view agreements signed in good faith to be grounds to not rule on disagreements, if clearly stated in the agreement that decisions are final and binding?
I'm no lawyer, but it seems to me that it happens regularly but maybe I'm wrong.

[RiverDog]

That may be true, but don't most courts view agreements signed in good faith to be grounds to not rule on disagreements, if clearly stated in the agreement that decisions are final and binding? I'm no lawyer, but it seems to me that it happens regularly but maybe I'm wrong.

I'm not a lawyer, either, so I don't know what the union's odds of success would be. But no matter what Goodell decides, they can take the issue to court:

What’s clear in this situation is that we’re just getting started. With the NFL determined to seek out an indefinite suspension of at least one year, the line has been drawn in the sand. A line that the NFLPA seems set to cross. Prior to the announcement of Watson’s suspension, reports indicated that the NFLPA was prepared to sue the NFL in federal court if it chose to appeal the decision on Watson’s fate. With things being what they are, it would be safe to assume this isn’t going to end quietly.

https://en.as.com/nfl/could-deshaun-wat ... pension-n/

According to my layman's understanding of the law, the union would first have to obtain from a judge a restraining order against the league ordering them not to suspend Watson until the case is heard. They'd have to work at lightning speed in order for our judicial system to get a decision before the season opener next month.

[NorthHawk]

OK.
Good iinfo. Thanks

[RiverDog]

OK. Good iinfo. Thanks

No sweat, man! That's what we're all here for.

You're exactly right. This could get really ugly if it gets to court. They may try to strike a compromise, suspend him for more than 6 games but less than the full season, like 10-12 games. That would be a lot more than what Worthlessburger got for much less egregious offenses. I'm not sure that the league wants to hang their dirty laundry out in a federal court. But then again, the court may not enter into a case that as you say, has a pretty explicit grievance procedure that both sides agreed to.

Best drama of the season.

[Hawktawk]

]

OK. Good iinfo. Thanks

RD “No sweat, man! That's what we're all here for.

You're exactly right. This could get really ugly if it gets to court. They may try to strike a compromise, suspend him for more than 6 games but less than the full season, like 10-12 games. That would be a lot more than what Worthlessburger got for much less egregious offenses. I'm not sure that the league wants to hang their dirty laundry out in a federal court. But then again, the court may not enter into a case that as you say, has a pretty explicit grievance procedure that both sides agreed to.

Best drama of the season.[/quote]

I don’t know if I’d call Ben sexually assaulting 2 women at different times and attempting to rape them “ far less agregious “ than anything Watson did . As you have pointed out these oriental masseuse parlors can have some willing “ victims “ . Don’t misunderstand . I think Watson should be in jail. But so should have Ben . He drug a coed in a bathroom stall and tried to rape her. He sexually assaulted a hospitality manager at a golf event inn Colorado . His shortened suspension was all about playing for the Rooney patriarch family kinda like super screw XL. Now it’s come back to bite them in the ass . If it had been someone who played for the bengals or something it would have been at least a year . Maybe lifetime .

[RiverDog]

I don’t know if I’d call Ben sexually assaulting 2 women at different times and attempting to rape them “ far less agregious “ than anything Watson did . As you have pointed out these oriental masseuse parlors can have some willing “ victims “ . Don’t misunderstand . I think Watson should be in jail. But so should have Ben . He drug a coed in a bathroom stall and tried to rape her. He sexually assaulted a hospitality manager at a golf event inn Colorado . His shortened suspension was all about playing for the Rooney patriarch family kinda like super screw XL. Now it’s come back to bite them in the ass . If it had been someone who played for the bengals or something it would have been at least a year . Maybe lifetime .

I was not attempting to minimize the nature of the individual acts that Worthlessburger was accused of. As a matter of fact, the reason I always refer to him as "Worthlessburger" started when that scandal broke. What he did, or was accused of doing, was at least on par with the individual acts that Watson has been accused of. The difference is in the number of accusations. Worthlessburger had two accusers. Watson has 24. That's the difference.

Although I don't subscribe to it, a person might be able to rationalize Worthlessburger's scandal as being driven by a couple of gold diggers. That's considerably more difficult when you're trying to explain 24 of them.

[RiverDog]

Hopefully, this doesn't violate our TOS, but if you click on the link and play the video, you'll hear a chant at the Browns/Jags game as Watson entered the game that is almost certainly going to be repeated if he plays this season:

https://twitter.com/barstoolsports/stat ... _&ref_url=

To say that he'd be a distraction for the Browns and the league is a gross understatement.

[NorthHawk]

Florio from PFT suggests that the reason the final punishment hasn't been delivered is because the two sides are negotiating a settlement - or at least talking about it.
That would make sense and we saw the same thing before the initial ruling.
Whether the two sides can come to an agreement or not only time will tell, but Watson's camp has publicly offered 6 games which the NFL has rejected. Apparently they
want a full season.

[c_hawkbob]

Florio from PFT suggests that the reason the final punishment hasn't been delivered is because the two sides are negotiating a settlement - or at least talking about it.
That would make sense and we saw the same thing before the initial ruling.
Whether the two sides can come to an agreement or not only time will tell, but Watson's camp has publicly offered 6 games which the NFL has rejected. Apparently they
want a full season.

I believe Watson's side's latest offer is 8 games and a $5m fine.

[RiverDog]

Florio from PFT suggests that the reason the final punishment hasn't been delivered is because the two sides are negotiating a settlement - or at least talking about it.
That would make sense and we saw the same thing before the initial ruling.
Whether the two sides can come to an agreement or not only time will tell, but Watson's camp has publicly offered 6 games which the NFL has rejected. Apparently they
want a full season.

I think you read that wrong. The arbitrator's decision was for 6 games.

But that really wasn't my point. My point is that Watson is going to be one helluva distraction if he's allowed to play even a partial season. Their sound techs are going to have to be on their toes to dub out some of those chants that are sure to occur if he plays.

[obiken]

Thats why I think Jimmy G is the best way for them to go, the league wants DW gone for the year.

[RiverDog]

Florio from PFT suggests that the reason the final punishment hasn't been delivered is because the two sides are negotiating a settlement - or at least talking about it.
That would make sense and we saw the same thing before the initial ruling.
Whether the two sides can come to an agreement or not only time will tell, but Watson's camp has publicly offered 6 games which the NFL has rejected. Apparently they
want a full season.

I believe Watson's side's latest offer is 8 games and a $5m fine.

Cbob is correct. Here's the quote from Florio's article:

According to Rob Maaddi of the Associated Press, Watson “would accept” an eight-game suspension and pay a $5 million fine to resolve the situation.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... lion-fine/

In recent days, Watson has appeared more contrite, has publicly apologized to the women that claim he assaulted in an obvious ploy to influence the negotiations. It's the first time he's given any indication of being remorseful. But the league is in the driver's seat. The only thing that the union has to leverage the negotiations with is the threat to take it to court. There's already been a huge blowback from the public over the arbitrator's 6 game ruling, now to include these "You sick f^ck" chants that league officials have to be aware of. If they go with anything less than a full season, it's going to touch off more protests and bad publicity, perhaps worse than that which followed the arbitrator's ruling.

[Aseahawkfan]

Is that what they're chanting? Damn. That is terrible.

[RiverDog]

Is that what they're chanting? Damn. That is terrible.

Yea, go up to my post with the twitter link in it and play the video. And that was in Jacksonville, one of the most passive fan bases in the league and with a very sparse crowd. Just think what it will be like in other stadiums in the regular season with larger crowds and more active fans.