Jimmy G to Seattle

[tarlhawk]

It seems a lot of people are contrasting power tackles who explode out of their 3 point stance and burst under the pads of the DE/Edge they face to blow open a running lane ...against what we drafted...two gifted athletic tackles (from a lamentable pass heavy 2 point stance system). This will likely limit the between the tackle A and B gaps leverage for run blocking...but at the same time gives quick transition to getting into seal block assignments on the outside corners...need RB speed and quick athletic pulling guards/tackles.

Penny and Walker III have the necessary burst to get outside and up field quickly with a quick block from that sides Tackle/TE/WR against the DE/LB trying to set/contain the "edge". Quick athletic tackles are also a big aid to our seldom called screens. Waldron should have a good feel of what areas of his scheme/play calling can be utilized to spring our Penny/Walker duo early into the 2022 season. Its just a "wait and see" ...plenty of anxiety and until potential flashes consistently into execution (moving the chains)...there will be lowered expectations. Go Hawks

[Aseahawkfan]

It seems a lot of people are contrasting power tackles who explode out of their 3 point stance and burst under the pads of the DE/Edge they face to blow open a running lane ...against what we drafted...two gifted athletic tackles (from a lamentable pass heavy 2 point stance system). This will likely limit the between the tackle A and B gaps leverage for run blocking...but at the same time gives quick transition to getting into seal block assignments on the outside corners...need RB speed and quick athletic pulling guards/tackles.

Penny and Walker III have the necessary burst to get outside and up field quickly with a quick block from that sides Tackle/TE/WR against the DE/LB trying to set/contain the "edge". Quick athletic tackles are also a big aid to our seldom called screens. Waldron should have a good feel of what areas of his scheme/play calling can be utilized to spring our Penny/Walker duo early into the 2022 season. Its just a "wait and see" ...plenty of anxiety and until potential flashes consistently into execution (moving the chains)...there will be lowered expectations. Go Hawks

The tackles are young. It seems pretty nuts to think that a couple of young rookie tackles are going to come out of the gate firing on all cylinders to the tune of the playoffs and Super Bowl contention when I've never seen it happen before on any team I can recall. They are talent tackles. Even talented tackles take some time to develop. That development can lead to some serious pain in the run and pass game. That's if both tackles work out when in reality only one is likely to do so. Rookie tackles is a recipe for a very hard year on offense unless both of them turn out to be Walter Jones reborn.

[NorthHawk]

Even Walter Jones had a learning curve.

One of the problems with Cross is he's so light and susceptible to the bull rush. He was drafted at 307lbs. So he has to add about 30 lbs to get to the size that fits the format of a McVay Offense (should Waldron follow that scheme).
Even if he does add 10 or 15lbs, there is a question of whether he can retain his quickness and develop the power required to play against full grown men.
Cross is pretty young, though so he has some time before his body fills out, but that won't help us this year, which is what we are talking about. His athleticism helps, no doubt, but athleticism alone doesn't make a player good enough
to play at an NFL level against Pro Bowl and All Pro caliber players. There are too many other variables Cross will have to esperience that he's never encountered in college like all OT's in their rookie year.
Lucas might be ahead of him early because he has more weight and played in a scheme where they ran the ball around 44% of the time (compared to 22% for Cross). It has exposed him to a few more blocking concepts, but it
still means that he will face players far more athletic, powerful, quick, and with better technique than any college OT has faced.

It's a big step from playing against kids to playing against full grown men who are the 31 (or fewer this year) best players in the world at what they do. And it takes a while to learn how to counter their attacks.
It's a huge learning curve and we have to be patient as they develop. I just hope our FO has enough patience to let them learn unlike the shuffling they did with Carpenter, Britt, and Ifedi (even if Carpenter was never cut
out to be a T at the NFL Level and maybe Britt either).

[c_hawkbob]

10 or 15 lbs ain't much for a 300+ pounder. I speak from experience.

Putting on even 30 lbs or adding the strength necessary for pro competition is pretty low on my list of worries for Cross. Of much more immediate concern is his learning curve, and hopefully he can keep that tight. I too don't expect all pro rookie seasons for either of our bookends, but have high hopes for year 2.

[NorthHawk]

10 or 15 lbs ain't much for a 300+ pounder. I speak from experience.

Putting on even 30 lbs or adding the strength necessary for pro competition is pretty low on my list of worries for Cross. Of much more immediate concern is his learning curve, and hopefully he can keep that tight. I too don't expect all pro rookie seasons for either of our bookends, but have high hopes for year 2.

Hopefully it's good weight and not bad weight. As well, he will have to adjust to the extra weight and keep his athleticism which for some people doesn't happen.
But like I said, he's pretty young so it might work out well.

[tarlhawk]

My point from my earlier comment was even though our rookie tackle (s) will take plenty of lumps this year...their athleticism can still be of value for implementing some of Waldron's playbook that utilize their ability to quickly get outside with the opportunity to get some seal blocks on the opponent's Edge setters...perhaps "springing" Penny/Walker around the outside corners/screens...even jet sweeps(Eskridge/Melton). Not expecting anything foolish like any all-pro attention...QB mobility and RB ability to "get skinny" and into LB territory will be keys.

[NorthHawk]

Athleticism is always of value but it doesn't help much against excellent technique, leverage, experience, and brute power that the OTs will face this year.
The speed of the game is a huge obstacle for many and that adjustment period sometimes takes a full year. It's what players are talking about when they say the game slows down in their 2nd or 3rd years.
It's not just physical, it's mental, too. Getting to the point where the OT isn't thinking about what his assignment is or who he has to block or where he has to be on any one play is a huge step and many never
really get settled to that degree. The OT's are going to be tested both mentally and physically like they've never been tested before. It happens to all rookies and a lot never make it and some you don't expect
to do well sometimes do. So we will see if our rookie Tackles have the right combination of mental and physical toughness to make it at the NFL level. We won't really know for a couple of years, though.

[Aseahawkfan]

My point from my earlier comment was even though our rookie tackle (s) will take plenty of lumps this year...their athleticism can still be of value for implementing some of Waldron's playbook that utilize their ability to quickly get outside with the opportunity to get some seal blocks on the opponent's Edge setters...perhaps "springing" Penny/Walker around the outside corners/screens...even jet sweeps(Eskridge/Melton). Not expecting anything foolish like any all-pro attention...QB mobility and RB ability to "get skinny" and into LB territory will be keys.

You think Air Raid tackles will be ok in a McVay style offense? I don't know much what the difference is. I know the difference between zone and man blocking and can see cut blocking and such. But not sure about how an overall scheme helps guys used to an air raid offense as from what I read they are used to play deeper off the ball to be better prepared to block the the pass rush because an air raid offense is a high volume passing attack.

[Hawktawk]

The Waldron offense is reliant upon patterns that insure an open man virtually every play but are often run out of the sane formations , motion etc. the point is it’s a first read , maybe second then run or throw it away . It’s of note Stafford threw 17 picks and 4 for 6 and has a Lombardi . He had lots of help but point is it’s a gunslinger mentality grip and rip offense which both our dog meat QBs play that game . Throw to NFL open windows . I’ll also point out that our potential starter Geno took 13 sacks in 13 quarters which would be over 60 for the year . He played 3 nasty defenses in Pittsburgh , saints , and Rams so it might have leveled off but point being he got hammered and still had some pretty nice throws . Good to great qb play helps a young line as much as a good run game I’m certain we will have . Joe Burrow got sacked 75 times , 7 in the Super Bowl and 9 in the divisional . I think we have 2 disrespected QBs who are big strong big arm guys not afraid to get hit . We will be ok .

[NorthHawk]

Pete won’t permit a QB to be a gunslinger. McVay might be OK with it, but Pete won’t stand for it.
If he wouldn’t allow an extremely accurate passer in Wilson to be one, do you really think he will allow
a much less accurate QB that freedom? We saw what happened when Schottenheimer opened up the Offense
a little. At the first sign of trouble Pete shut it down. I expect the changes we will see will be limited to
pre snap motion and possibly attacking the edges. But with such inexperienced Tackles who will be over
matched early in their careers runs wide will have difficulty early along with any deep passes that take
time for the routes to develop.

[RiverDog]

Pete won’t permit a QB to be a gunslinger. McVay might be OK with it, but Pete won’t stand for it.
If he wouldn’t allow an extremely accurate passer in Wilson to be one, do you really think he will allow
a much less accurate QB that freedom? We saw what happened when Schottenheimer opened up the Offense
a little. At the first sign of trouble Pete shut it down. I expect the changes we will see will be limited to
pre snap motion and possibly attacking the edges. But with such inexperienced Tackles who will be over
matched early in their careers runs wide will have difficulty early along with any deep passes that take
time for the routes to develop.

Certainly the old Pete would have, and has done, exactly as you have described in the recent past. But after seeing his behavior during the draft, not going off the reservation and reaching past good talent for 'his guy', not trading down, etc, I have a feeling that Pete might have had a "Come to Jesus" moment after going through his worst season in 12 years, splitting the sheets with Russell, and all the rumors about him being on the hot seat.

[Aseahawkfan]

Pete's way work. His metrics are accurate. But he has to have the team to make it work. I don't know why any of you pretend that some single way is the only way to go when time and time and time again all types of different teams win with different strong players. Weak offense-strong defense. Strong offense-weak defense. Balanced teams. High volume passing. Low volume passing. Strong run game. Elite QB or serviceable franchise QB. We've seen it all over the years. There is no one way to win other than build a good team that has a lot of talent, try to stay injury free, come up big at the right time.

This idea McVay is dominant or any other coach or style is pure hogwash. Lots of different styles work. Lots of different teams.

Some of you like offense, so you try to paint these ridiculous ideas that offense is what is needed. And some of us like defense, so we'd prefer a really strong defense. But the reality is lots of ways to win a championship. Pete's way works. McVay's way works. Bill B's way. Andy Reid's way. Holmgren's way. Doug Pedersen's way. Lots of ways to win, but mainly just stack a lot of talent, scheme to your talent, and try to get it to all come together when you hit the playoffs.

Quite a few coaches have proven they know how to do that.

[obiken]

Some of you like offense, so you try to paint these ridiculous ideas that offense is what is needed. And some of us like defense, so we'd prefer a really strong defense. But the reality is lots of ways to win a championship. Pete's way works. McVay's way works. Bill B's way. Andy Reid's way. Holmgren's way. Doug Pedersen's way. Lots of ways to win, but mainly just stack a lot of talent, scheme to your talent, and try to get it to all come together when you hit the playoffs.

Quite a few coaches have proven they know how to do that.

Sure, but the league has changed, no way you get away with kind of hits that Kam Chancellor laid on people. I can say without question, in the Salary cap era, you have to have a Good GM, and you only pay for a franchise QB, weapons, a LT an edge rusher, and CB to cover. You do not pay massive money to a RB, Safety, or MLB any more, you just can't. Moreover, PC's way was 10 years ago now, its gone all offense. As I said to HT on another thread, NO defense can cover Mahomy, Hill, and Kelsey, nor can they cover a Josh Allen and a Diggs. This is why I think the Broncos are the most dangerous team in the league. IF AZ looses Hopkins they were done, that's why they went out and got another one, Allen looses Diggs its over, Rogers is not going to replace Devonte Adams, you just cant. Denver has 4 good not great ones, injuries are not going to hurt them as much as other teams. Bengals proved that all you need is a defense that is mediocre, and a great offense, and you are a contender. It was probably headed that way with Walsh anyway. In 05 we had the best offense in the league, and we went to a SB. Now with all the rule changes, offenses rule, defenses drool. PC, Bilicheat, Zimmer, their are all dinosaurs.

[obiken]

The Waldron offense is reliant upon patterns that insure an open man virtually every play but are often run out of the sane formations , motion etc. the point is it’s a first read , maybe second then run or throw it away . It’s of note Stafford threw 17 picks and 4 for 6 and has a Lombardi . He had lots of help but point is it’s a gunslinger mentality grip and rip offense which both our dog meat QBs play that game . Throw to NFL open windows . I’ll also point out that our potential starter Geno took 13 sacks in 13 quarters which would be over 60 for the year . He played 3 nasty defenses in Pittsburgh , saints , and Rams so it might have leveled off but point being he got hammered and still had some pretty nice throws . Good to great qb play helps a young line as much as a good run game I’m certain we will have . Joe Burrow got sacked 75 times , 7 in the Super Bowl and 9 in the divisional . I think we have 2 disrespected QBs who are big strong big arm guys not afraid to get hit . We will be ok .

Oh brother, I have no words for all that tripe.

[Aseahawkfan]

Sure, but the league has changed, no way you get away with kind of hits that Kam Chancellor laid on people. I can say without question, in the Salary cap era, you have to have a Good GM, and you only pay for a franchise QB, weapons, a LT an edge rusher, and CB to cover. You do not pay massive money to a RB, Safety, or MLB any more, you just can't. Moreover, PC's way was 10 years ago now, its gone all offense. As I said to HT on another thread, NO defense can cover Mahomy, Hill, and Kelsey, nor can they cover a Josh Allen and a Diggs. This is why I think the Broncos are the most dangerous team in the league. IF AZ looses Hopkins they were done, that's why they went out and got another one, Allen looses Diggs its over, Rogers is not going to replace Devonte Adams, you just cant. Denver has 4 good not great ones, injuries are not going to hurt them as much as other teams. Bengals proved that all you need is a defense that is mediocre, and a great offense, and you are a contender. It was probably headed that way with Walsh anyway. In 05 we had the best offense in the league, and we went to a SB. Now with all the rule changes, offenses rule, defenses drool. PC, Bilicheat, Zimmer, their are all dinosaurs.

People been talking about changes for years. Teams have adapted for years. A strong defensive team will always be able to win Super Bowls.

I've listened to you for years. You're biased towards offense. Always have been, probably always will be. Just like I'm biased towards defense. You would be happier with some high flying, Sean Payton or McVay style of offense with a strong O-line and a middle of the pack defense.

I'd rather have a Pittsburgh or Legion of Boom style dominant defense with a good offense and a power run game.

Either style can win at any point in time. Always will be the case unless they just remove defense from the field period, which I doubt they ever do. NFL is built so there are lots of different ways to win.

I don't see not dominant coaches or teams. Fortunately thing for Seattle is we're in a NFL that is currently up for grabs. That is why you saw a Rams versus Cinci with teams that were more balanced. Neither the Rams or Bengals were the best offense or defense. Just a balanced team that got hot at the right time.

NFL is wide open right now. Very balanced with lots of parity. I couldn't even tell you right now who will win the Super Bowl. I could tell you some favorites or possibilities, but that could all change in the blink of eye.

Patriots dominance ended with Tom Brady leaving. So far Andy Reid finally got a Super Bowl ring, but he isn't a good enough coach to have a dominant Super Bowl contender like Bill B. We'll see if McVay can take his shot at back to back and win it. So far he's got one ring and we'll see if he can get another.

You should be happy when the NFL is this wide open. Means things can turn around real quick.

[obiken]

That is just not true, I am not pro offense, I love defense and a Running but come on, your arguments sound like HT just denying the evidence. There is NO evidence to show that, its more than trending towards Offense. Billy B, was the model of the SALARY CAP era, and he had QB that was legendary willing to take pay cuts to make it happen. Once Brady left its done, Pete is done, your denying trend that is already on us.

[Hawktawk]

My point from my earlier comment was even though our rookie tackle (s) will take plenty of lumps this year...their athleticism can still be of value for implementing some of Waldron's playbook that utilize their ability to quickly get outside with the opportunity to get some seal blocks on the opponent's Edge setters...perhaps "springing" Penny/Walker around the outside corners/screens...even jet sweeps(Eskridge/Melton). Not expecting anything foolish like any all-pro attention...QB mobility and RB ability to "get skinny" and into LB territory will be keys.

Penny demonstrated an excellent ability to get skinny and explode through narrow windows as his performance showed. And there are veteran pieces in the interior line which is where Walker and penny make lots of their big runs from . Blythe is a solid veteran center . Phil Haynes is a road grader of whom Wyman said he was the biggest rated Hawks linemen down the stretch . “ a lot of penny’s big runs went through Phil Haynes “. And again nobody wants Duane Brown . I look at how many lines Pete has had to build from scratch in college and pros . Every line is in flux . Denver is changing some pieces and gave up 40 sacks, 5 less than Seattle . Every time I turn around I’m hearing about another team with line problems . Dynastic lines are as rare as dynasties imo because they help build dynasties . Everyone else has to figure it out . We will .

[Aseahawkfan]

That is just not true, I am not pro offense, I love defense and a Running but come on, your arguments sound like HT just denying the evidence. There is NO evidence to show that, its more than trending towards Offense. Billy B, was the model of the SALARY CAP era, and he had QB that was legendary willing to take pay cuts to make it happen. Once Brady left its done, Pete is done, your denying trend that is already on us.

Look, you can still win a lot of different ways. It's been soft on QBs for years. But they also made rules so O-line can't block as cruelly against D-lines as they used to as well, which has made it easier on pass rushers. We like to talk about how many rules in favor of the defense are in the game, but there are a lot of rules put in to cut the cruelty of O-lineman too.

You can still have a strong defensive team and win. But best of all is always going to be the balanced team with great talent. If that talent is focused on a strong passing game, cool. If it is focused on a strong defense, good. Or something between the two. Just build up good talent, put them in a position to win. Pete knows how to do that when he isn't making shiny toy trades. Whether he can do it again or not we shall see.

I get it. We're both mad he traded the franchise QB and think it was stupid. But we don't have to pain the guy as not knowing how to build a team and coach football when he clearly does. He's better at building from nothing than he is maintaining.

[obiken]

Penny demonstrated an excellent ability to get skinny and explode through narrow windows as his performance showed. And there are veteran pieces in the interior line which is where Walker and penny make lots of their big runs from . Blythe is a solid veteran center . Phil Haynes is a road grader of whom Wyman said he was the biggest rated Hawks linemen down the stretch . “ a lot of penny’s big runs went through Phil Haynes “. And again nobody wants Duane Brown . I look at how many lines Pete has had to build from scratch in college and pros . Every line is in flux . Denver is changing some pieces and gave up 40 sacks, 5 less than Seattle . Every time I turn around I’m hearing about another team with line problems . Dynastic lines are as rare as dynasties imo because they help build dynasties . Everyone else has to figure it out . We will .

Hawktalk the sucker bet for you and you should take it, is to bet Seattle to win the SB, you bet 100 bucks you win 10,000, just do it buddy, you know you want too!! There are better odds out there. Give a 100 to some bum in the streets, he cleans himself up, becomes a millionaire, and pays you back a million.

[Hawktawk]

Penny demonstrated an excellent ability to get skinny and explode through narrow windows as his performance showed. And there are veteran pieces in the interior line which is where Walker and penny make lots of their big runs from . Blythe is a solid veteran center . Phil Haynes is a road grader of whom Wyman said he was the biggest rated Hawks linemen down the stretch . “ a lot of penny’s big runs went through Phil Haynes “. And again nobody wants Duane Brown . I look at how many lines Pete has had to build from scratch in college and pros . Every line is in flux . Denver is changing some pieces and gave up 40 sacks, 5 less than Seattle . Every time I turn around I’m hearing about another team with line problems . Dynastic lines are as rare as dynasties imo because they help build dynasties . Everyone else has to figure it out . We will .

Hawktalk the sucker bet for you and you should take it, is to bet Seattle to win the SB, you bet 100 bucks you win 10,000, just do it buddy, you know you want too!! There are better odds out there. Give a 100 to some bum in the streets, he cleans himself up, becomes a millionaire, and pays you back a million.

Obi I know your pessimistic in general . But HT is an optimist about next year , refuses to bow down to Wilson apologists. I trust my franchise . My front office . I think we got screwed . Blindsided . I think there is a real lack of appreciation from previous dude and we see him on MNF week one so we can see what’s up . But why mock me ? Wait til we play the games .I expect this raft of crap from people who think criticizing Wilson is apostasy . I never saw you as that guy . Hawktawk is optimistic . We are better than people think . If we aren’t then I eat my crow and we talk about how to get better . I’m nit gonna ghost the forum if I’ve blown this prediction . Just think old Pete has a few more seasons in him . Disagree but be respectful of the most optimistic fan on the planet

[RiverDog]

Disagree but be respectful of the most optimistic fan on the planet

There's a difference between unrealistic optimism and a sober, objective assessment of one's chances. Don't take this as a slight, but I think you skew heavily to the former, and it's all because of your obsession with one player recently departed. You can't make a comment without referring to him in some manner.

[Hawktawk]

Disagree but be respectful of the most optimistic fan on the planet

There's a difference between unrealistic optimism and a sober, objective assessment of one's chances. Don't take this as a slight, but I think you skew heavily to the former, and it's all because of your obsession with one player recently departed. You can't make a comment without referring to him in some manner.[/quote]


And as I say you can’t say anything without some dig at Pete . But that’s fine . The most consequential athlete in Seattle history forces his way out and is dishonest about it , then the despicable winning city comments that upset thousands of fans but I guess I’m the only one here . So get ready for Asea to go on a rant defending his departed savior .shut up HT .

My optimism is indeed partially based on a theory of addition by subtraction . And pointing out previous guys bad play in key moments and worse attitude is how that is demonstrated . I think the Hawks are fired up, energized and by one thing imo . I don’t think there’s 50 plus potted plants sitting around with their potted plant coach at VMac just taking it up the nether region and dying .

My projections are based on many realities outside of departed Jesus Christ superstar which I’ve detailed ad nausem .

I don’t like Russ at all, less every day. He’s right with Hutchinson only more so . Great player , in the end very bad hawk . I really barely addressed Wilson in my post to Obi “ won’t bow down to the Wilson apologists “. That was it.

I like our roster . I like our coaches . I love our first game on the schedule . It’s part of my optimism , getting a chance to tee off on the guy that was too good for Seattle in week one , totally upend the script of Seattle sucks and our savior leads league in passing and wins a championship . Are you rooting for that ? Pick a side .

Now as I’ve said if Russ hangs up 40 or even wins this it’s a whole nother discussion . I said it in my post to Obi . I’ve always eaten the crow unlike most in here . But I feel good . Hunches are part of any bet.

[RiverDog]

So I''m taking digs at Pete at the same rate of which you're taking shots at Russell? That is just plain not true.

Like I said before, the head coach is fair game for criticism in any team's fan base, even if you're a Pats fan taking shots at Belichick. It is not the same as your taking constant shots at a former player in nearly every comment in every thread.

And as a side note, please take a look at your last post. It's the same thing that Cbob complained about a few weeks ago. I'm not sure how you're doing it and I'm sure that it's an unintentional, honest mistake, but you're changing the quote in your posts to attribute comments you made to someone else. It's not a huge deal and I understand your issue with your broken cell phone, but it would be greatly appreciated if you took a little more care when responding to a comment.

[NorthHawk]

The Offense has to be able to take advantage of the rule changes that are a detriment to Defenses
As well, because the defenses are being hamstrung relative to years ago there will be more higher scoring
games. The NFL is promoting that type of game as they think it will attract more fans. Therefore the Offense
becomes more important than the Defense in that it has to be able to get into shootouts when they arise.
Defense does play an important role, but so does the Offense and when one side of the ball struggles the other
has to pick up the slack. That’s what balance is all about except today’s game is skewed towards Offense.

[Aseahawkfan]

The Offense has to be able to take advantage of the rule changes that are a detriment to Defenses
As well, because the defenses are being hamstrung relative to years ago there will be more higher scoring
games. The NFL is promoting that type of game as they think it will attract more fans. Therefore the Offense
becomes more important than the Defense in that it has to be able to get into shootouts when they arise.
Defense does play an important role, but so does the Offense and when one side of the ball struggles the other
has to pick up the slack. That’s what balance is all about except today’s game is skewed towards Offense.

They're both important, even special teams a bit.

Most lop-sided games I've ever seen were back when there was no salary cap and teams like Dallas and Frisco built crazy super teams strong on both sides of the ball. Now most of the crazy Super Bowl wins are by teams playing crazy good defense.

Not like I want some kind of super defense and a garbage offense. I prefer a team skewed towards defense and Pete's and Bill B's way works just fine to win. They aren't dinosaurs. That's just rubbish. Sean McVay's offense isn't that sneaky or dominating, so not sure why it is seen that way. McVay got held to 3 points by Bill B in 2019 Super Bowl and even this year with Stafford he was held to 23 points in the Super Bowl.

I'd rather have the team we had when Pete first arrived with an amazing defense and a great offense. Not like Pete's team with Russell and Marshawn was some kind of sucky offense. It was extremely potent, grinding, and powerful as well.

[Hawktawk]

The team that went to 2 Super Bowls and won one was 25 TDs 5 or 6 picks pounding run game including a dynamic intelligent qb who gashed teams at key moments . And a filthy d.

At the risk or certainty of a backlash let me settle the Russ vs Pete argument regarding offense. Russ got reigned in after 3 picks in the first AZ game . Wilson’s team crashed a coaches meeting on a short week to demand changes to the offense prior to the second Az game . Reports are it was not well received . But what was the result ? The Hawks beat AZ after losing earlier in the year due to Russels picks . Argument over .

[obiken]

The team that went to 2 Super Bowls and won one was 25 TDs 5 or 6 picks pounding run game including a dynamic intelligent qb who gashed teams at key moments . And a filthy d.

At the risk or certainty of a backlash let me settle the Russ vs Pete argument regarding offense. Russ got reigned in after 3 picks in the first AZ game . Wilson’s team crashed a coaches meeting on a short week to demand changes to the offense prior to the second Az game . Reports are it was not well received . But what was the result ? The Hawks beat AZ after losing earlier in the year due to Russels picks . Argument over .

Oh please, Last year was a complete Aberration, you have to toss last year out completely!

[Hawktawk]

So I''m taking digs at Pete at the same rate of which you're taking shots at Russell? That is just plain not true.

Like I said before, the head coach is fair game for criticism in any team's fan base, even if you're a Pats fan taking shots at Belichick. It is not the same as your taking constant shots at a former player in nearly every comment in every thread.

And as a side note, please take a look at your last post. It's the same thing that Cbob complained about a few weeks ago. I'm not sure how you're doing it and I'm sure that it's an unintentional, honest mistake, but you're changing the quote in your posts to attribute comments you made to someone else. It's not a huge deal and I understand your issue with your broken cell phone, but it would be greatly appreciated if you took a little more care when responding to a comment.

HT has been a messy poster since 2000. Ill try to do better.

North can seldom post without discussing petes garbage offense bad roster etc. Its the prevailing opinion on this forum. Pete bad, Russ good. All Pete and Johns fault.

But I disagree or at least partially disagree. Im not a wimp fan that going to take it lying down what was done to my HAWKS here. Your opinions are fine,, have at it . I dont jump your $h@t every time I disagree. But if Im going to make my point about addition by subtraction its relevant to discuss former guys RECENT impact on the team. Also relevant when stories break about how he had Shottie fired then praised him publicly . Then a few weeks ago he looked in the camera and said things about a winning city that he knew exactly how it would be taken and how thousands of Hawks fans would feel hearing it.As far as I'm concerned any Hawks fan that was cool with that needs to grow a pair as a fan. Defend the rag. That is a timely relevant thing.

Hearing Denver beat reporters questioning Russel's off season jet setting around the globe is relevant . It all enters into my entire crazy theory about the guys left in the Vmac.I believe PC and JS have a fire in their bellies they haven't had for a while. There are proud men in the locker room and enough of them are good enough to do something about it.

The time for talking and speculation is drawing to a rapid close.

[RiverDog]

So I''m taking digs at Pete at the same rate of which you're taking shots at Russell? That is just plain not true.

Like I said before, the head coach is fair game for criticism in any team's fan base, even if you're a Pats fan taking shots at Belichick. It is not the same as your taking constant shots at a former player in nearly every comment in every thread.

And as a side note, please take a look at your last post. It's the same thing that Cbob complained about a few weeks ago. I'm not sure how you're doing it and I'm sure that it's an unintentional, honest mistake, but you're changing the quote in your posts to attribute comments you made to someone else. It's not a huge deal and I understand your issue with your broken cell phone, but it would be greatly appreciated if you took a little more care when responding to a comment.

HT has been a messy poster since 2000. Ill try to do better.

I'm addicted to my tablet, a Microsoft Surface 7. It's so much easier to cut and paste using my wireless mouse while sitting in my easy chair. I highly recommend something like what I have to every baby boomer that was born with a navel rather than a USB port as our succeeding generations have. It's a lot easier for me to type on a keyboard than it is to text on a cell phone. As much as you enjoy this sort of stuff, I think you'd get your money's worth out of it or something like it.

North can seldom post without discussing petes garbage offense bad roster etc. Its the prevailing opinion on this forum. Pete bad, Russ good. All Pete and Johns fault.

But I disagree or at least partially disagree. Im not a wimp fan that going to take it lying down what was done to my HAWKS here. Your opinions are fine,, have at it . I dont jump your $h@t every time I disagree. But if Im going to make my point about addition by subtraction its relevant to discuss former guys RECENT impact on the team. Also relevant when stories break about how he had Shottie fired then praised him publicly . Then a few weeks ago he looked in the camera and said things about a winning city that he knew exactly how it would be taken and how thousands of Hawks fans would feel hearing it.As far as I'm concerned any Hawks fan that was cool with that needs to grow a pair as a fan. Defend the rag. That is a timely relevant thing.

Hearing Denver beat reporters questioning Russel's off season jet setting around the globe is relevant . It all enters into my entire crazy theory about the guys left in the Vmac.I believe PC and JS have a fire in their bellies they haven't had for a while. There are proud men in the locker room and enough of them are good enough to do something about it.

The time for talking and speculation is drawing to a rapid close.

I'm not North Hawk. I've consistently said that I blame both Pete and Russell for the split, and I have not increased my criticism of Pete since the trade. To the contrary, I've been very complimentary as to how he managed the draft this season and view some of his statements that he might be trying to change some of the things that weren't working as a positive. That doesn't mean that he gets a free pass from me this season, only that I'm pleased with some of the recent developments.

[Hawktawk]

My view of the entire situation is in flux as more developments occur . I was ready to dump Pete along with most everyone when Russ was playing scissorhands and PC was walking out on his press conference . If anything that finger episode proved that right to the end Pete respected Russ and let him back on the field in a decision that surely ended any chance of playoffs . Hindsight is 2020 looking back I think I have a better understanding of what a chaotic mess that situation must have been .

Is Pete perfect ? Of course not . But clearly a great coach and as a blue collar manager of people I see Coach = boss. player =employee . Like my old man used to say “ work and keep your mouth shut “ Is Russel all bad ? Bad person ? No . Uncoachable self centered on his personal stats as a player ? Yeah . And it mattered on the bottom line . So let’s see .

As I’ve said one of my beefs is be honest . You want to throw 50 TDs . That is a personal accomplishment . And good luck with that Denver going 4 wide throwing 35 times a game . As I heard a pundit say “ He is not Payton Manning but he wants to be “.

Seattle won doing it Pete’s way . They haven’t won much since drifting away from Pete’s way. Whatever else can be said we will be playing Pete ball . Genos stat line looked a lot like Pete ball . I’m very curious how our offense will look in reality .

[obiken]

My view of the entire situation is in flux as more developments occur . I was ready to dump Pete along with most everyone when Russ was playing scissorhands and PC was walking out on his press conference . If anything that finger episode proved that right to the end Pete respected Russ and let him back on the field in a decision that surely ended any chance of playoffs . Hindsight is 2020 looking back I think I have a better understanding of what a chaotic mess that situation must have been .

Is Pete perfect ? Of course not . But clearly a great coach and as a blue collar manager of people I see Coach = boss. player =employee . Like my old man used to say “ work and keep your mouth shut “ Is Russel all bad ? Bad person ? No . Uncoachable self centered on his personal stats as a player ? Yeah . And it mattered on the bottom line . So let’s see .

As I’ve said one of my beefs is be honest . You want to throw 50 TDs . That is a personal accomplishment . And good luck with that Denver going 4 wide throwing 35 times a game . As I heard a pundit say “ He is not Payton Manning but he wants to be “.

Seattle won doing it Pete’s way . They haven’t won much since drifting away from Pete’s way. Whatever else can be said we will be playing Pete ball . Genos stat line looked a lot like Pete ball . I’m very curious how our offense will look in reality .

HE is the coach, IF they drifted away from Pete's way thats on Pete!!

[Hawktawk]

Russ has increasingly played sandlot ball . No offensive scheme calls for not throwing between the hashes . And it didn’t used to be that way . But that’s where the third down pickups are . It’s gotten worse and worse over the last few years . The LOB could survive a stagnant offense somewhat although we had significant parts of that record setting Defense for several more years and won 2 playoff games or rather Minnesota lost one when the kicker blocked one from 22 yards or whatever . Russ is gonna do what he’s gonna do no matter the offense . It’s always worked and been fun to watch but it’s not working as much anymore .

The Titans game was an excellent example of Seattle’s offense being completely bipolar . First half a bunch of long bombs build a big lead. Second half 1 bomb to Swain on 3rd and 12 and a whole bunch of 3 and outs and punts . In Ot take a chunk shot at Lockett out of bounds ignoring a pitch and catch to DK. Overthrows DK second down . Third he is eyes down to a free rusher and spins out for a 12 yard sack on the half yard line . Game over .

I watched the play several times and Homer is wide open on the right sideline waving his arms as Wilson runs backwards .

Imo that’s the game the season went in the dumpster and everyone had a part in it but 35 million guy lost it in the end .

Russell Wilson his first few years was razor focused , loaded with football intelligence, a master at reading the field , deadly accurate , made teams defend the whole field. He was fearless , never went eyes down under pressure . He was 100% about team success as he showed running it in from the 2 in the rams game rather than throw it to zach Miller for the rookie record for TDs.”GO Hawks “ right?

Obi that guy has been dissapearing slowly for years . Most of you didn’t notice , lived in the past , kept giving the Hawks a pass every post season flame out . The last playoff loss was dreadful to a team we had beaten earlier .

It was time buddy . Maybe Russ rediscovers his magic . I’m betting not and predict we will have more wins than Denver .
I’ll predict our offense will move the chains better and balance Top. We will know soon . I would think someone would say gee I hope you’re right . I hope I am

[Aseahawkfan]

My view of the entire situation is in flux as more developments occur . I was ready to dump Pete along with most everyone when Russ was playing scissorhands and PC was walking out on his press conference . If anything that finger episode proved that right to the end Pete respected Russ and let him back on the field in a decision that surely ended any chance of playoffs . Hindsight is 2020 looking back I think I have a better understanding of what a chaotic mess that situation must have been .

Is Pete perfect ? Of course not . But clearly a great coach and as a blue collar manager of people I see Coach = boss. player =employee . Like my old man used to say “ work and keep your mouth shut “ Is Russel all bad ? Bad person ? No . Uncoachable self centered on his personal stats as a player ? Yeah . And it mattered on the bottom line . So let’s see .

As I’ve said one of my beefs is be honest . You want to throw 50 TDs . That is a personal accomplishment . And good luck with that Denver going 4 wide throwing 35 times a game . As I heard a pundit say “ He is not Payton Manning but he wants to be “.

Seattle won doing it Pete’s way . They haven’t won much since drifting away from Pete’s way. Whatever else can be said we will be playing Pete ball . Genos stat line looked a lot like Pete ball . I’m very curious how our offense will look in reality .

There's no one to blame. Stop wasting your time assigning blame. Things happen. Changes occur. We've seen it a ton of times and it has never been productive to waste time blaming. Time to look to what's coming.

[Hawktawk]

Good point . I’m pumped to see TC start , see some preseason games that will be must see with this epic struggle between Geno and Drew . Ebony and ivory in perfect harmony I feel good . I just do

[Old but Slow]

For you, HT: "I feel good!! (bump a bump a bump) yeeeeeoww!" James Brown

[trents]

"Seattle won doing it Pete’s way . They haven’t won much since drifting away from Pete’s way."

When did they drift away from "Pete's way"? Yes, there personnel changes following the Superbowl win which prevented Pete from successfully implementing Pete's strategy but he stubbornly stuck to his strategy. Seems to me that is the problem.

[Hawktawk]

"Seattle won doing it Pete’s way . They haven’t won much since drifting away from Pete’s way."

When did they drift away from "Pete's way"? Yes, there personnel changes following the Superbowl win which prevented Pete from successfully implementing Pete's strategy but he stubbornly stuck to his strategy. Seems to me that is the problem.

We didn’t make the plays . I can’t figure all of it out we know it wasn’t working let’s see what is next

[NorthHawk]

Pete went from building a team to trying to plug holes all while the talent was wasting away.
Many of us could see what was happening but Pete just forged ahead blindly thinking we were only one or two
players away from challenging for a championship. We ended up going from one of the most talented teams to
the point where we find ourselves in a full rebuild with only a sprinkling of the talent we once had.

That’s what is meant by Pete losing his way.

This draft looked like a return to the days of building a team. it remains to be seen if that will continue in
the next few drafts. One thing that is different is they aren’t bringing in players from all over like they did
in the early years. There seems to be a lack of urgency and it makes me wonder if they think we are only
a handful of players away from a championship run and will revert back to hole plugging and trading
away good draft picks along the way.

[Aseahawkfan]

8 days boys and girls. We get to watch football get going. The fun begins. No more worrying about the past, now we get to see the future soon.

Should be fun.

[Hawktawk]

Pete went from building a team to trying to plug holes all while the talent was wasting away.
Many of us could see what was happening but Pete just forged ahead blindly thinking we were only one or two
players away from challenging for a championship. We ended up going from one of the most talented teams to
the point where we find ourselves in a full rebuild with only a sprinkling of the talent we once had.

That’s what is meant by Pete losing his way.

This draft looked like a return to the days of building a team. it remains to be seen if that will continue in
the next few drafts. One thing that is different is they aren’t bringing in players from all over like they did
in the early years. There seems to be a lack of urgency and it makes me wonder if they think we are only
a handful of players away from a championship run and will revert back to hole plugging and trading
away good draft picks along the way.

Easy to forget this garbage roster was 12-4 a year ago then someone went 11-29 for 141 and a pick 6 in the WC . Lost to a team we beat 2 weeks earlier . Is that the roster or something else ? This team looks like it’s got some talent . Let’s find out .