OT: USC, UCLA Leaving Pac-12

[RiverDog]

The Pac-12 has been a ghost of its former self for several decades. The addition of Colorado and Utah hasn't worked out the way they had hoped. The conference hasn't had a national champion in football or men's basketball, the two highest profile collegiate sports, in nearly two decades.

Now the two lynchpins of the conference, the two Los Angeles schools, football powerhouse USC and men's basketball giant UCLA, have decided to leave the conference for the Big 10 in 2024:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb ... ar-AAZ2EAI

This really sucks, as some of my fondest memories growing up involves Pac 10, or before it, Pac 8 football and men's basketball. Now their status as a Power 5 football conference is in danger and they could be relegated to the likes of the Mountain West and Western Athletic conferences.

So what happens now? Do they revert back to calling themselves the Pac-10? Doing so would eliminate their football conference championship game, so they would likely want to expand, but where? Boise State would add to the competitiveness, at least in football, but they exist in a very small market. Or how about San Diego State? They'd have a market to themselves without the NFL to compete with. San Jose State would be an option, but they're in a market that already has two conference members.

[NorthHawk]

It really sucks.
I wonder how the Rose Bowl will change.
We might see some of the rest of the remaining larger programs try to follow.
I can see the Huskies consider it and the article mentions Cal and Stanford so what’s left of the Pac12 won’t be
very competitive in Football relative to the other divisions.

[RiverDog]

It really sucks.
I wonder how the Rose Bowl will change.
We might see some of the rest of the remaining larger programs try to follow.
I can see the Huskies consider it and the article mentions Cal and Stanford so what’s left of the Pac12 won’t be
very competitive in Football relative to the other divisions.

The Rose Bowl's current contract with the Pac-12 and Big 10 runs through 2026, so nothing's happening to the Grandaddy of them All for a few years.

But there are serious questions about the stability of the remainder of the conference. I read some talk about the possibility of coaxing Notre Dame into joining, but IMO it would make no sense for them to come out here. Unless they can poach a couple of teams from another conference, like Oklahoma and Texas, I can't see the conference staying together for long. There's no two teams that are not already in a Power 5 conference that they can add that will come anywhere close to replacing USC and UCLA.

Oregon State and Washington State are going to be left without a chair once the music stops. They're a better fit for the Mountain West anyway.

[Old but Slow]

The whole situation with college football has evolved to a point in which conferences are becoming less important. Earning a conference championship no longer has the cache that it once had, as teams look more to national ranking. National ranking requires quality opponents. If conference schedules don't offer enough strength, top teams will look elsewhere.

Maybe it is a time for them all to be independent. Teams would seek opponents that they can compete with, some smaller schools my find some advantages, and competitive games could result. On the other hand, a team like WSU might be too strong to want to play and in a bad time zone for media coverage. They would end up being a big dog in a small pool.

No answers here, but it is definitely an evolving situation.

[RiverDog]

The whole situation with college football has evolved to a point in which conferences are becoming less important. Earning a conference championship no longer has the cache that it once had, as teams look more to national ranking. National ranking requires quality opponents. If conference schedules don't offer enough strength, top teams will look elsewhere.

Maybe it is a time for them all to be independent. Teams would seek opponents that they can compete with, some smaller schools my find some advantages, and competitive games could result. On the other hand, a team like WSU might be too strong to want to play and in a bad time zone for media coverage. They would end up being a big dog in a small pool.

No answers here, but it is definitely an evolving situation.

The conferences were the answer for the have-nots, the WSU's, Iowa States, Northwesterns, and Wake Forests. The strength of the USC's, Ohio States, Alabamas, and Texas' pulled them along. It was bad enough for them when the decision about the NIL came down, now they don't have the larger schools to guarantee them scheduling opportunities. WSU and OSU recruit heavily out of the LA area, now they won't be making an annual trip down there, won't be playing UCLA in the Rose Bowl and instead, will have to be content on playing in some place like Boise. Whoop-de-doo!

[obiken]

The conferences were the answer for the have-nots, the WSU's, Iowa States, Northwesterns, and Wake Forests. The strength of the USC's, Ohio States, Alabamas, and Texas' pulled them along. It was bad enough for them when the decision about the NIL came down, now they don't have the larger schools to guarantee them scheduling opportunities. WSU and OSU recruit heavily out of the LA area, now they won't be making an annual trip down there, won't be playing UCLA in the Rose Bowl and instead, will have to be content on playing in some place like Boise. Whoop-de-doo!

I dont know if I agree with all that, however I think once the ND issue is settled, WA and OR jump to the Big 10 also. I think the losers in all of this is Utah, Kyle Whittingham, who has built something special down there, and Chip Kelly. Kelly cannot recruit, KW is going to retire in 2 years max now. My question River is do we keep Dan Lanning at Oregon, he didn't bargain for all of this. Fox did to CFB like they did politics, ruined it.

[RiverDog]

The conferences were the answer for the have-nots, the WSU's, Iowa States, Northwesterns, and Wake Forests. The strength of the USC's, Ohio States, Alabamas, and Texas' pulled them along. It was bad enough for them when the decision about the NIL came down, now they don't have the larger schools to guarantee them scheduling opportunities. WSU and OSU recruit heavily out of the LA area, now they won't be making an annual trip down there, won't be playing UCLA in the Rose Bowl and instead, will have to be content on playing in some place like Boise. Whoop-de-doo!

I dont know if I agree with all that, however I think once the ND issue is settled, WA and OR jump to the Big 10 also. I think the losers in all of this is Utah, Kyle Whittingham, who has built something special down there, and Chip Kelly. Kelly cannot recruit, KW is going to retire in 2 years max now. My question River is do we keep Dan Lanning at Oregon, he didn't bargain for all of this. Fox did to CFB like they did politics, ruined it.

I'm not sure if UW and UO can get into the Big 10. They're going hard after Notre Dame. Plus Cal and Stanford might be more lucrative schools for that conference, a bigger market and especially for Cal, ties with the LA schools. They've been talking that UW and UO might join the Big 12. Colorado might return the Big 12, too.

I don't think we can blame network television for realignment. This is the power hungry Big 10 schools, the Michigans and Ohio States, that are behind this. They're in an arms race with the SEC.

[Hawktawk]

Just another indication of all out greed in pro sports and let’s face it college football isn’t far removed . It’s just the university pockets most of the cash . This stuff is why I’m less inclined to watch college ball at all these days . So predictable in the end and the rivalries are shot . Hate this

[RiverDog]

Just another indication of all out greed in pro sports and let’s face it college football isn’t far removed . It’s just the university pockets most of the cash . This stuff is why I’m less inclined to watch college ball at all these days . So predictable in the end and the rivalries are shot . Hate this

Yeah, me too. They've ruined the college experience for a whole lot of people, and by 'they', I mean that it's more than just the university establishments. It used to be that college athletes weren't all that much different than the rest of the student body, just that they got their tuition paid while others had to work for it or have their parents pay for it. I can remember a top ranked UCLA team coming into Pullman on a warm fall day, and the Cougs pulling off the upset in a very close contest and how excited everyone was that they beat a mighty LA team. Now they'll have to be content in whipping up on Colorado State or Wyoming. Whoop-de-do.

[Old but Slow]

It makes me feel a bit guilty, as I now mostly watch college football to scout talent for the Seahawks. For most of my life I have watched the game to see if a championship comes to the NW hinterlands, following most of the teams in the state and enjoying the players who were consummate Huskies or Cougs, or whatever, and in all sports, the Sonny Sixkillers, the John Oleruds, the John Stocktons and so on.

Now I find I am some kind of whore to the whole thing, or, I guess that makes me the John, but whatever it is I feel like something good has been lost.

[RiverDog]

College football used to be such an event. Growing up in a small town, Walla Walla, we had two college football teams, Walla Walla CC and Whitman, and although they rarely had great teams, each fall Saturday up until Thanksgiving, I'd ride my bike the short distance to the stadium and watch some really good, quality football.

Then the combination of Title IX, the legislation that required equal participation between men's and women's collegiate programs, and rising expenses effectively killed small college and CC football. But it was still a huge event for me, watching Don James' Huskies take on teams like USC, Michigan, and Oklahoma, winning more big games than they lost. The Cougs were less successful, but they still could occasionally field competitive teams.

Now this two-conference virus is going to consume more victims. UW and UO should survive, at least for a while. I see where Oregon might get invited to join the Big 10 if Notre Dame breaks a 150-year tradition and joins a conference. UW could end up in the Big 12. But what about OSU and WSU if the Pac 12 completely disintegrates, which now seems more likely than not? The Mountain West seems the most likely destination. But will donors be motivated to contribute the big bucks that forms the life blood of the football program if they're facing off against Utah State and New Mexico instead of Stanford and USC?

It's a sad day for all football fans, no matter what your allegiance.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

You mentioned the PAC 12 pulling a couple of teams from another conference. You used Texas and Oklahoma as your examples. The SEC already beat them to it. Both teams have joined the SEC.

[RiverDog]

You mentioned the PAC 12 pulling a couple of teams from another conference. You used Texas and Oklahoma as your examples. The SEC already beat them to it. Both teams have joined the SEC.

Yeah, I guess I'd heard that. The Pac 12 had a chance to get those two a few years back and had they been successful, they likely wouldn't be in the predicament they find themselves today.

[NorthHawk]

I saw a scroll on the bottom of the TV last night that said up to 4 more Pac12 teams would be in discussions with the Big12 this week.
I'm not sure what to make of it, though and those things on the TV never go into detail.

[c_hawkbob]

This feels like when Don King ruined Boxing to me; multiple sanctioning bodies, competing claims to "world champions", pay per view money grabs ... at this point they should just dissolve the conferences, go to a 16 team playoff and let the Bowl games fend for themselves as to participants. Like boxing, we'll never get back to what we all consider "normal".

[RiverDog]

I saw a scroll on the bottom of the TV last night that said up to 4 more Pac12 teams would be in discussions with the Big12 this week.
I'm not sure what to make of it, though and those things on the TV never go into detail.

Colorado is likely one of those 4. They were one of the original Big 8 member schools in the not so distant past.

I agree with Cbob about the boxing analogy. My old man claimed that over exposure killed boxing, that it was once on prime time network TV 5 times a week. The colleges have a similar situation, with multiple games on throughout the week and on a dozen or more channels, including all 4 major networks plus ESPN, ESPN2, Fox Sports, Root Sports, and the conference's own channels. It is for sure a big money grab by a relative handful of schools.

Regarding a CFB playoff, who knows how that will shake out? I always felt that the ideal situation would have been for the conference champs in the 5 Power 5 conferences (Big 10, Big 12, Pac-12, SEC, and ACC) be given automatic bids with 3 at large slots available for 2nd place teams, independents like Notre Dame, and bona fide mid majors. They could have had the 4 major NYD bowls represent the opening round quarterfinals and make the NYD bowls relevant again. But now, that hope is blown all to hell and gone.

I'm always hesitant to advocate that the federal government enter into a fray like this as it's not a legitimate concern of theirs, but I'm beginning to wonder if the time isn't right for them to step in and do something.

[NorthHawk]

I think the Rose Bowl will suffer because the matchup if it continues as it has would pit a team like Michigan or Ohio St against a team that would be the equivalent of a Mountain West FBS entry.
That wouldn't appeal to many viewers, I wouldn't think.
They may end up changing the format for that Bowl game regarding teams. To what teams or divisions would be the question.

[RiverDog]

I think the Rose Bowl will suffer because the matchup if it continues as it has would pit a team like Michigan or Ohio St against a team that would be the equivalent of a Mountain West FBS entry.
That wouldn't appeal to many viewers, I wouldn't think.
They may end up changing the format for that Bowl game regarding teams. To what teams or divisions would be the question.

What happens to the bowls depends on how the college football playoffs evolve. If they go to a 16 team format as Cbob suggested, there could be an opportunity for them to host some of those games.

But I agree, the CFB landscape is changing rapidly. Who knows what it will look like once the dust settles.

[TriCitySam]

The 4 mentioned with the Big12 are Colorado, Utah, Arizona and Arizona State. From the numbers I’ve seen, can’t blame USC and UCLA ( got 21MM from Pac12, could be $100MM with move in ‘24. Reports today atrthat the Bid 12 is considering UW and Oregon as well. Nobody’s clamoring to go to Pullman.

[RiverDog]

The 4 mentioned with the Big12 are Colorado, Utah, Arizona and Arizona State. From the numbers I’ve seen, can’t blame USC and UCLA ( got 21MM from Pac12, could be $100MM with move in ‘24. Reports today atrthat the Bid 12 is considering UW and Oregon as well. Nobody’s clamoring to go to Pullman.

Nor is anyone clamoring to go to Corvallis. I'm afraid those two schools are destined to become mid majors, with the best fit being the Mountain West.

[TriCitySam]

Nor is anyone clamoring to go to Corvallis. I'm afraid those two schools are destined to become mid majors, with the best fit being the Mountain West.

Right - I don't know the status of Oregon State, but I read WSU's athletic programs went backwards around $14MM last year. The difference in payout between Pac-12 and Mtn West was about $17MM per team - huge financial impact if that would occur.

[RiverDog]

Nor is anyone clamoring to go to Corvallis. I'm afraid those two schools are destined to become mid majors, with the best fit being the Mountain West.

Right - I don't know the status of Oregon State, but I read WSU's athletic programs went backwards around $14MM last year. The difference in payout between Pac-12 and Mtn West was about $17MM per team - huge financial impact if that would occur.

One of the unexpected casualties of this power grab could be EWU football. They seriously considered abolishing it a year or so ago. It's heavily subsidized by the state, and if the state has to make up the difference between what a Pac-12 WSU earns vs. a Mountain West Cougs, there might not be enough to go around for poor little Eastern.

[trents]

Hawktawk hit the nail on the head. It all boils down to greed, including NIL. Television money is the driver here. Now, even NIL will benefit only those elite athletes in two super conferences. No one else will get the necessary press. Same thing has happened with the NBA and China dollars. More money always seems to trump integrity. The NBA makes a big deal out of being an inclusive entity, trumpeting their support of BLM, transgenderism, GBLTQXYZ things, etc. while not saying a peep about the crimes against humanity that China carries on daily. Did you guys see the interview with Enes Kanter Freedom recently where he outlines how his willingness to call out China has probably put an end to his NBA career? It was refreshing.