Pete’s quotes

[Hawktawk]

Post mini camp I caught a few of Pete’s headliners . A few that stuck out me were “ it’s the fastest team we’ve had “ Cobe may have the best hands on the team . Fant had the best camp . Geno is still ahead but Locke doesn’t need to do much to catch up . Boye Mafe reminds him of Cliff Avril .


Yeah I know , Pete speak . But it might be true this year . It was once upon a time .

[RiverDog]

"We're going to build around Tavaris!"

Pete Carroll, December 1st, 2011.

[NorthHawk]

It’s interesting that they have Mafe and Tyreke Smith listed as LBs.
Maybe it doesn’t mean anything at all…

[Aseahawkfan]

If two of our rooks come out of the gate performing well and four develop into quality starters within 3 years, it will have been an amazing draft. I expect a lot of growing pains, but hope we see good progress as the season progresses. I hope these guys can take the NFL beating. That's the real key to success for the young guys: staying on the field to learn and get better.

[Hawktawk]

"We're going to build around Tavaris!"

Pete Carroll, December 1st, 2011.

Never heard that from you before about 100 wins ago .

[tarlhawk]

"We're going to build around Tavaris!"

Pete Carroll, December 1st, 2011.

Not sure of the point of highlighting this quote? Coaches constantly speak using motivational speech to "pump up" a guy being counted on vice representing any real commitment when speaking "to the camera/media".

[NorthHawk]

"We don't intend to trade Russell Wilson". Meanwhile they are in serious trade discussions with Denver about trading Wilson.

[RiverDog]

"We're going to build around Tavaris!"

Pete Carroll, December 1st, 2011.

Not sure of the point of highlighting this quote? Coaches constantly speak using motivational speech to "pump up" a guy being counted on vice representing any real commitment when speaking "to the camera/media".

You'd have to have been with us in 2011. Pete's quote was made immediately following a rather routine win against a very mediocre Philadelphia Eagles team that boosted our record to 5-7. He was like a little kid on a sugar high and his statement was purely emotional with absolutely no tangible substance as just a couple months later, we signed the top FA QB on the market, used a 3rd round pick on a QB, and TJack didn't play a single down in the preseason and was gone before the opener.

Most coaches don't make the kind of 'pump up' comment that Pete did on that occasion, not at 5-7 and after beating a 4-8 team, and certainly don't say something specific like they're "going to 'build around" a certain player unless they meant it. If you feel that I'm in error, that comments like that one are used frequently by NFL coaches to 'pump up' their players, I'd love to see a comparable quote made under similar circumstances with a similar result.

Anytime someone uses one of Pete's quotes to make an argument similar to the one made in the OP, you can count on me responding with that little gem, including the enhanced fonts.

[tarlhawk]

"We don't intend to trade Russell Wilson". Meanwhile they are in serious trade discussions with Denver about trading Wilson.

Has everyone forgotten the NFL is a business first organization which seldom gets the benefit of having "leak free" negotiations. Did you really expect Pete to candidly say our team was in the middle of parlaying a deal and for it to not "hurt" a trade (bearing very important return potential)...when it wasn't a "done deal" yet? Really?

[NorthHawk]

Here's the latest one about the QB competition:

“It’s gonna be a real battle,” he said. “It’s going to be really an exciting time for our team and for those guys in particular and for our people watching. I’m pumped up about it. I really am.”

Yah, right.

[RiverDog]

"We don't intend to trade Russell Wilson". Meanwhile they are in serious trade discussions with Denver about trading Wilson.

Has everyone forgotten the NFL is a business first organization which seldom gets the benefit of having "leak free" negotiations. Did you really expect Pete to candidly say our team was in the middle of parlaying a deal and for it to not "hurt" a trade (bearing very important return potential)...when it wasn't a "done deal" yet? Really?

No, no one has forgotten that. Indeed, that's part of our response, the point being that no matter what the motivation Pete has for making such a statement, that we should all be taking what he says, or for that matter, many other NFL coaches, with a grain of salt, something that the author of the OP occasionally has some difficulty doing.

[tarlhawk]

Here's the latest one about the QB competition:

“It’s gonna be a real battle,” he said. “It’s going to be really an exciting time for our team and for those guys in particular and for our people watching. I’m pumped up about it. I really am.”

Yah, right.

Such acid cynicism...much easier to be a critic than a supporter...so take the easy road...your conscience will thank you.

[tarlhawk]

No, no one has forgotten that. Indeed, that's part of our response, the point being that no matter what the motivation Pete has for making such a statement, that we should all be taking what he says, or for that matter, many other NFL coaches, with a grain of salt, something that the author of the OP occasionally has some difficulty doing.

That (grain of salt) is an accurate assumption that I felt was already understood. Coaches are fully aware that players and fans tune in for "sound bytes".

[RiverDog]

That (grain of salt) is an accurate assumption that I felt was already understood. Coaches are fully aware that players and fans tune in for "sound bytes".

You would think so, but that's not always the case. Some of us need reminders.

[Hawktawk]

"We don't intend to trade Russell Wilson". Meanwhile they are in serious trade discussions with Denver about trading Wilson.

The quote I recall from
Pete was “ we are not SHOPPING Wilson but we always look for ways to
Improve our team .

What they did was accommodate a malcontent who thought he was too good for Seattle . Had they wanted to shop Wilson he’d have been gone a year earlier .
Compared to Russell saying he hoped he’d be here when he had made clear to Seattle he didn’t and was researching Denver film ……..stop with Pete Ok?

This is about the future . Not rehashing the trade . We can do that Sept 12.

[RiverDog]

"We don't intend to trade Russell Wilson". Meanwhile they are in serious trade discussions with Denver about trading Wilson.

The quote I recall from Pete was “ we are not SHOPPING Wilson but we always look for ways to Improve our team .

What they did was accommodate a malcontent who thought he was too good for Seattle . Had they wanted to shop Wilson he’d have been gone a year earlier .
Compared to Russell saying he hoped he’d be here when he had made clear to Seattle he didn’t and was researching Denver film ……..stop with Pete Ok?

This is about the future . Not rehashing the trade . We can do that Sept 12.

The last thing Pete said prior to the Russell trade...and I'm including the full quote so as not to be accused of cherry picking, was on March 2nd:

"At this time of year, there's conversations about everybody, and it's commonplace for us to have conversations with teams about all of the players, particularly marquee players," Carroll said when asked if Seattle has engaged in trade talks regarding Wilson. "That's not changed. It's been the same every year. It's the same.

"We have no intention of making any move there (with Russell). But the conversations, [general manager] John [Schneider] has to field those, he always has. But nothing specific."

https://www.nfl.com/news/seahawks-head- ... ell-wilson

The trade was announced just 6 days later, and a deal that involves a franchise quarterback with a no trade clause, 3 veteran players, and multiple draft picks, arguably the biggest trade in Seahawk and Bronco history, just doesn't happen that fast. It's clear that the Hawks had every intention of trading Russell and were actively engaged in trade talks well before Pete made that statement, making it a bold faced lie.

I'm not going to defend Russell as he was dishonest about his true feelings on playing in Seattle, too. But if I had to give out Pinocchios, Russell would get 3 while Pete would get 4.

[NorthHawk]

I will always believe Wilson wanted to stay in Seattle, but not under Pete's Offensive scheme. That's not dishonest.
So it had to be one or the other.

[RiverDog]

I will always believe Wilson wanted to stay in Seattle, but not under Pete's Offensive scheme. That's not dishonest.
So it had to be one or the other.

Sorry, but I'm not going that far with ya.

Here's one of Russell's quotes about Pete's offensive scheme a mere month before the trade:

Additionally, despite the inconsistent year on offense, Wilson spoke highly of current Seahawks offensive coordinator Shane Waldron as the two head into their second year together.

“I think Shane Waldron is great, I think he’s a really good play-caller, I think he understands the game," Wilson said. "I’ve got great confidence in what he can do and how he calls the game. I love Shane, he’s a mastermind, he loves putting the extra work in.”

https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/02/12/russe ... uper-bowls

He can't have it both ways. He can't dislike Pete's offensive scheme while blowing kisses at the OC.

While I don't think Russell told a bold faced lie in the same manner that Pete did, IMO he was still very disingenuous with his fans about his supposedly wanting to play here for another 10 years here when it was apparent that he and/or his agent was actively working on a deal to move him. Like I said earlier, this stuff just doesn't happen. The two parties had to have been working on this for some time, going back to the end of the 2020 season when the rumors first began to circulate.

[Aseahawkfan]

Has everyone forgotten the NFL is a business first organization which seldom gets the benefit of having "leak free" negotiations. Did you really expect Pete to candidly say our team was in the middle of parlaying a deal and for it to not "hurt" a trade (bearing very important return potential)...when it wasn't a "done deal" yet? Really?

I don't mind you having this opinion as long as its consistent for the player and the organization.

It's one thing to defend Seattle as business first, but take shots at Russell for looking out for his future too as a player.

I don't know if you noticed, but we have one poster who uses this excuse for Carroll and Schneider but makes Russell seem like The Devil for pursuing his businesses interests playing football. That isn't right or fair. If it's business first for the organization, then it is business first for the players too. They have the right to pursue higher compensation or what they consider a better offensive situation if they have the leverage to do so. If the organization decides they don't want to comply and trade the player, that is their option as well. Neither side is villainous or wrong for doing so.

I know this is all business. But it needs to be business for the player and organization. The fans can't continue this attacking players for making business decisions, while organizations discard players or trade them when they aren't good any more or for whatever reason while the fans act like the players owe the team something or what not. That creates a one-sided hypocrisy that isn't equitable.

[Aseahawkfan]

Sorry, but I'm not going that far with ya.

Here's one of Russell's quotes about Pete's offensive scheme a mere month before the trade:

Additionally, despite the inconsistent year on offense, Wilson spoke highly of current Seahawks offensive coordinator Shane Waldron as the two head into their second year together.

“I think Shane Waldron is great, I think he’s a really good play-caller, I think he understands the game," Wilson said. "I’ve got great confidence in what he can do and how he calls the game. I love Shane, he’s a mastermind, he loves putting the extra work in.”

https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/02/12/russe ... uper-bowls

He can't have it both ways. He can't dislike Pete's offensive scheme while blowing kisses at the OC.

While I don't think Russell told a bold faced lie in the same manner that Pete did, IMO he was still very disingenuous with his fans about his supposedly wanting to play here for another 10 years here when it was apparent that he and/or his agent was actively working on a deal to move him. Like I said earlier, this stuff just doesn't happen. The two parties had to have been working on this for some time, going back to the end of the 2020 season when the rumors first began to circulate.

I think Russell would have kept playing in Seattle for his entire career had Pete and he been able to work out whatever differences they had. It came down to business for both them. Pete wants to do things his way and he has the power. So Russell asked for a trade or maybe didn't ask and the organization decided to trade him so Russ said, "Ok. I'll see who you get and then decide if it's ok."

None of us will ever be sure what this was all about. Both Russ and Pete are very close to the vest people who are very business oriented. It's not the first time Pete and John have made rather ruthless trade or cut decisions and gotten a pass from the fan base for being "good business people" while players are attacked for "whining for wanting more money." Why this happens, I don't know. I've always been of the mind the players are business people and so is the team. This entire football thing is a constantly moving business with negotiation ongoing as well as players and the organization having to manage their public image at the same time.

All the talk was just Pete and Russ managing the public image, not creating a panic, and maintaining a positive outlook for the fan base regardless of what happened. It's part of the job as the saying goes.

[Hawktawk]

I did not say Russ was the devil but sad to say outside the love fest in the forum there are plenty of fans that think less of Russ now . Taking care of oneself in a team sport when you had the biggest contract in league history is not a team player . No I in team . Taking the field for your own Superman narrative knowing you aren’t ready to help the SEAHAWKS WIN THE GAME is not a team player. Not a guy that cared about the fans . A player who says me or the system = coach is called a COACH KILLER. Not a good title to have but it’s him now.
So the hell with him. John Swindled Denver and it will pay off soon . It’s about the future .

[NorthHawk]

Waldron wasn’t permitted to run his Offense if we are to believe it’s more like McVays.
It was the same thing we’ve seen fo more than a decade.
It may very well have been that he was sold a changed Offense with Waldron but Pete boxed them into his
philosophy. It’s just speculation but it fits the story and we did have the same Offense with 2 other OCs and
even had the more open Offense of Schottenheimer pulled back in the middle of the year.

[Aseahawkfan]

Waldron wasn’t permitted to run his Offense if we are to believe it’s more like McVays.
It was the same thing we’ve seen fo more than a decade.
It may very well have been that he was sold a changed Offense with Waldron but Pete boxed them into his
philosophy. It’s just speculation but it fits the story and we did have the same Offense with 2 other OCs and
even had the more open Offense of Schottenheimer pulled back in the middle of the year.

I still don't understand how anyone can't see that Pete Carroll is a control freak. The best head coaches are. Pete has his way of doing things that absolutely works amazing if he has the right personnel. It's never gonna run any different than what Pete knows and wants while he is head coach.

That means a play action pass low volume passing game with a strong run game that limits turnovers and tries for explosive plays. These are the metrics Pete uses to measure offensive success.

And a defense that doesn't give up explosive plays and forces long, grinding drives then hardens at the end zone to limit points while still forcing the opponent to grind clock.

It's a very sound strategy. He isn't changing it any time soon even they add in a few wrinkles. I think it might be Pete's super friendly exterior that makes it seem like he is less of a control freak than a Holmgren or Bill B, but he isn't. He's just different. He doesn't control the players talking as much or create a stifling environment, but he has a very clear way he does things. To me Carroll's like a Phil Jackson-type of NFL coach. Controlling of the strategy and the x's and o's, but let's the players sort of do what they want as long as they are not taking the team down with them.

[RiverDog]

Waldron wasn’t permitted to run his Offense if we are to believe it’s more like McVays.
It was the same thing we’ve seen fo more than a decade.
It may very well have been that he was sold a changed Offense with Waldron but Pete boxed them into his
philosophy. It’s just speculation but it fits the story and we did have the same Offense with 2 other OCs and
even had the more open Offense of Schottenheimer pulled back in the middle of the year.

Regardless of whether or not Pete let Waldron run is offense, Russell expressed his acceptance of it in that interview.

I'm not blaming either one of them for being dishonest as even a 'no comment' would have touched off countless talking heads speculating on what it all meant. But both of them were disingenuous with the public during this whole affair and it's just another reminder to take what both athletes and coaches say with a grain of salt, especially when it comes to something so monumental like a trade of this magnitude.

[Hawktawk]

Russ. Didn’t. Run . The . Offense . Russ has been somewhat off schedule his entire career with outstanding results but the last year and a half it was launching rocket shots and deep sideline routes . Avoiding between the hash marks , overlooking check downs .

Mathew Stafford threw 17 picks in this offense and won the Super Bowl . Because he wasn’t afraid to rip the next one . Run the plays as called and trust your players

This is a grip it and rip it offense , first read play action multiple plays out of the same formation and motion . If any of you saw that other then Genos 13 quarters let me know . Russ played Russ Ball last season .

[RiverDog]

Russ. Didn’t. Run . The . Offense . Russ has been somewhat off schedule his entire career with outstanding results but the last year and a half it was launching rocket shots and deep sideline routes . Avoiding between the hash marks , overlooking check downs .

Mathew Stafford threw 17 picks in this offense and won the Super Bowl . Because he wasn’t afraid to rip the next one . Run the plays as called and trust your players

This is a grip it and rip it offense , first read play action multiple plays out of the same formation and motion . If any of you saw that other then Genos 13 quarters let me know . Russ played Russ Ball last season .

That wasn't the issue. The issue was what Russell said about the offensive coordinator, and by implication, the offense in general. He signaled his acceptance of it and didn't sound at all as North Hawk had portrayed him. It was disingenuous of him to act as if everything was rainbows and unicorns while at the same time, scheming to get out of town. Understandable but nevertheless dishonest, and a good example of why we shouldn't be using player and coaches statements as an accurate representation of how things really are. If Russell lies, they all lie.

[Aseahawkfan]

Russ. Didn’t. Run . The . Offense . Russ has been somewhat off schedule his entire career with outstanding results but the last year and a half it was launching rocket shots and deep sideline routes . Avoiding between the hash marks , overlooking check downs .

Mathew Stafford threw 17 picks in this offense and won the Super Bowl . Because he wasn’t afraid to rip the next one . Run the plays as called and trust your players

This is a grip it and rip it offense , first read play action multiple plays out of the same formation and motion . If any of you saw that other then Genos 13 quarters let me know . Russ played Russ Ball last season .

Why do you believe this? Stafford has always thrown for around that many interceptions. His TD to int percentage was consistent.

Main thing that changed for Stafford is he had a much better defense. He's always been a productive QB.

McVeigh's offense is not grip it and rip it. It's more of a high volume passing attack. He doesn't use many check downs either.

That is not Pete's offense. Pete has always been a low volume passing offense with more running. Waldron will never be able to run that. The QB doesn't have a choice. It's not the QB toning it down, it was Carroll.

Carroll does not like turnovers. When Russell was allowed to throw aka cook, soon as the ints started rising Pete put a stop to the high volume passing attack. Pete does not like like high volume passing games. Been that way since he has been here. Only time he allows it is if we're way behind as Riverdog pointed out.

Pete is never going to change. As long as Carroll is here, we will run a low volume passing game with a strong run game. That is Pete's offense. I don't even know why he brought Waldron in when he knew he would never run a McVeigh style offense.

[RiverDog]

Russ. Didn’t. Run . The . Offense . Russ has been somewhat off schedule his entire career with outstanding results but the last year and a half it was launching rocket shots and deep sideline routes . Avoiding between the hash marks , overlooking check downs .

Mathew Stafford threw 17 picks in this offense and won the Super Bowl . Because he wasn’t afraid to rip the next one . Run the plays as called and trust your players

This is a grip it and rip it offense , first read play action multiple plays out of the same formation and motion . If any of you saw that other then Genos 13 quarters let me know . Russ played Russ Ball last season .

Why do you believe this? Stafford has always thrown for around that many interceptions. His TD to int percentage was consistent.

Main thing that changed for Stafford is he had a much better defense. He's always been a productive QB.

McVeigh's offense is not grip it and rip it. It's more of a high volume passing attack. He doesn't use many check downs either.

That is not Pete's offense. Pete has always been a low volume passing offense with more running. Waldron will never be able to run that. The QB doesn't have a choice. It's not the QB toning it down, it was Carroll.

Carroll does not like turnovers. When Russell was allowed to throw aka cook, soon as the ints started rising Pete put a stop to the high volume passing attack. Pete does not like like high volume passing games. Been that way since he has been here. Only time he allows it is if we're way behind as Riverdog pointed out.

Pete is never going to change. As long as Carroll is here, we will run a low volume passing game with a strong run game. That is Pete's offense. I don't even know why he brought Waldron in when he knew he would never run a McVeigh style offense.

I agree with ASF except for the last paragraph.

I wanted to see Pete Carroll get fired this season, and I still think that Jody Allen's hesitancy to pull the trigger was a colossal mistake. But I get the feeling that Pete has changed, that something occurred within him to make him more humble, admit to himself that the game was starting to pass him by, that he needed a reset.

So we'll see if my intuition is correct, if he gives his OC more autonomy, if he adapts. Most likely not, but who knows.

[NorthHawk]

That wasn't the issue. The issue was what Russell said about the offensive coordinator, and by implication, the offense in general. He signaled his acceptance of it and didn't sound at all as North Hawk had portrayed him. It was disingenuous of him to act as if everything was rainbows and unicorns while at the same time, scheming to get out of town. Understandable but nevertheless dishonest, and a good example of why we shouldn't be using player and coaches statements as an accurate representation of how things really are. If Russell lies, they all lie.

Russ was one of the team leaders and had/has an image he zealously protects. He’s never going to even hint at dissatisfaction
to the media. As well, he accepted his position and went to work with what he had. Greg Olsen said he was the same every
single day. It’s not so much disingenuous as much as it’s protecting the team and his image. After all, what would be gained
by saying he wasn’t on board or thought it was wrong going forward?

Players act like everything is fine all the time. Apparently there was a rift between Brady and Ariens but both denied it.
It happens all the time to varying degrees in all professional sports.

[c_hawkbob]

I don't believe Russ actually lied, even once. I know Pete did. It's really that cut and dried for me.

[Hawktawk]

I don't believe Russ actually lied, even once. I know Pete did. It's really that cut and dried for me.

Good lord man . It’s hopeless .with his own orchestrated departure and his dishonesty about it Russ did for the Seattle fan base what Trump did to the Republican Party . Split it . Turned fans against our greatest coach ever to the point every thread winds up an attack on Pete for not surrounding Russ and his huge salary with all pros at every position. Letting him design the offense .

“ I want to win 3 or 4 more and I hope it’s here ? “ a man with a no trade clause ? Studying Denver film ? . Agent cursing out John ? I heard a radio interview where he challenged a reporter “ you guys make stuff up “ who pointed out he was leaking teams a year ago and publicly criticizing the organization . The interview was a couple days before the trade . Yeah he was great , best we ever had but the exit was bad .

[c_hawkbob]

Good lord man . It’s hopeless .with his own orchestrated departure and his dishonesty about it Russ did for the Seattle fan base what Trump did to the Republican Party . Split it

No man, only you. You're the only one I see "split" from everybody else.

[obiken]

Russ did what he could with PC and the Offense, many have said it was not working like Olsen who played for us, no way PC should have ever let Russ just walk out for two 1st rounders same paid for JA, that was the joke. I am shocked he did not leave sooner, I would have. What changed the equation is Brady, Russ wants more SB's and he saw he was NOT going to get them in Seattle with PC. My issue with Russ and all athletes who want to move for Championships, is the worming out motif, rather than just saying I love my guys but they are just not skilled enough to take me where I want to go, and the coach is stuck in the defensive dinosaur era, not the new era of the offense. Nothing against anyone but love everyone, bye bye. Brady is a unicorn because he is willing to take pay cuts to win, that huge in the NFL with the cap. I see the P. Association closing that some day, but who knows.

[Hawktawk]

Good lord man . It’s hopeless .with his own orchestrated departure and his dishonesty about it Russ did for the Seattle fan base what Trump did to the Republican Party . Split it
No man, only you. You're the only one I see "split" from everybody else.

You might look around outside the forum . There’s utterly ruthless fans out there . anyone who wants to say Russel wasn’t dishonest has split with reality . “ I hope it’s here “ while watching denver film was to convince the 12s he wanted to stay so they would love him and blame Seattle when they traded him . Obviously it worked for some . For me not so much and I’ve got plenty of company .

[Hawktawk]

Russ did what he could with PC and the Offense, many have said it was not working like Olsen who played for us, no way PC should have ever let Russ just walk out for two 1st rounders same paid for JA, that was the joke. I am shocked he did not leave sooner, I would have. What changed the equation is Brady, Russ wants more SB's and he saw he was NOT going to get them in Seattle with PC. My issue with Russ and all athletes who want to move for Championships, is the worming out motif, rather than just saying I love my guys but they are just not skilled enough to take me where I want to go, and the coach is stuck in the defensive dinosaur era, not the new era of the offense. Nothing against anyone but love everyone, bye bye. Brady is a unicorn because he is willing to take pay cuts to win, that huge in the NFL with the cap. I see the P. Association closing that some day, but who knows.

I think john did what he did because he felt like myself and some others that Russ isn’t good enough to be worth the headache or a new deal he had said he wouldn’t sign anyway . If they believed he was going to play at a very high level for the next few years they would have made him honor his deal then franchise him a couple years and ride it out . Remember this was a month in the making . Looked like the molester was about 5 minutes 3 first rounders

It tells me something Seattle had to ship off a 4th rnd pick to close the deal .
Obi you crack me up because the sky is always falling but in a funny way .
Listen man . You think we’re doomed ? We were doomed last year . Russ won 6 games , went 1-3 vs backups including losing to Colt McCoy for the second season . We sucked WITH Russel and a lot of those losses had a lot to do with his play . A chance to win at the end 0-3. He’s not Dangerruss anymore . He’s Kirk Cousins. You need 8 he gets 7.

We were a year late if we wanted 3 firsts . Better late than never . When I hear denver media saying the receiving corps needs to shape up I smile . I’m relieved it’s done . So are the coaches, the players , and Jodi Allen . And like Russ said after blaming Seattle for the trade “ I’m happy to be here “. He’s not going to leave Lumen happy .

You’re really going to be surprised I think .

[Aseahawkfan]

I agree with ASF except for the last paragraph.

I wanted to see Pete Carroll get fired this season, and I still think that Jody Allen's hesitancy to pull the trigger was a colossal mistake. But I get the feeling that Pete has changed, that something occurred within him to make him more humble, admit to himself that the game was starting to pass him by, that he needed a reset.

So we'll see if my intuition is correct, if he gives his OC more autonomy, if he adapts. Most likely not, but who knows.

I don't think he's changed myself. I don't think there is any reason to. His coaching philosophy is absolutely fine. His schemes are fine. If you mean he's finally going back to the basics in team building, then I hope that change did happen. Carroll is at his best when he's building up a young team. He doesn't seem so good at maintaining a veteran team. And after that Super Bowl loss, I don't think that team could recover from that psychological blow.

[Hawktawk]

I agree with ASF except for the last paragraph.

I wanted to see Pete Carroll get fired this season, and I still think that Jody Allen's hesitancy to pull the trigger was a colossal mistake. But I get the feeling that Pete has changed, that something occurred within him to make him more humble, admit to himself that the game was starting to pass him by, that he needed a reset.

So we'll see if my intuition is correct, if he gives his OC more autonomy, if he adapts. Most likely not, but who knows.

I don't think he's changed myself. I don't think there is any reason to. His coaching philosophy is absolutely fine. His schemes are fine. If you mean he's finally going back to the basics in team building, then I hope that change did happen. Carroll is at his best when he's building up a young team. He doesn't seem so good at maintaining a veteran team. And after that Super Bowl loss, I don't think that team could recover from that psychological blow.

So River are you saying Jodi should have fired PC and brought back Russ with a new young offensive minded coach? After having heard all the backstory about feuding, checking out?I was there in early Dec then it looked like everyone was coming back which I was cool with. But when the trade went down I dug a little deeper and saw a guy who had become a team wrecker, a coach killer.Good luck to any young guy coaching him, he didn't respect or listen to Carroll. Denver's the guinea pig now.


Asea as for your contention about the psychological blow of that loss in hindsight its clear. Easy to forget significant portions of the LOB remained for 2 more seasons but still barely squeaked out of the WC and non competitive in the divisional.Offense DOA in the first half of every playoff loss since and even including 49. It was like a snake with its head cut off, death throes. It had to change and Russ for all his greatness had become part of the problem.If you're not "all in" its a problem, specifically the field general. It might get worse before it gets better and in hindsight the process started a year late. But this year showed the fans and the organization how over this run is . It could get better right away too. I respect Pete Carroll more every time I look at his resume and what he did here once. If anyone can do it its him.

[RiverDog]

No man, only you. You're the only one I see "split" from everybody else.

You might look around outside the forum . There’s utterly ruthless fans out there . anyone who wants to say Russel wasn’t dishonest has split with reality . “ I hope it’s here “ while watching denver film was to convince the 12s he wanted to stay so they would love him and blame Seattle when they traded him . Obviously it worked for some . For me not so much and I’ve got plenty of company .

I frequent another forum like this one except that it has a lot more traffic, and I belong to a couple of Facebook fan groups, and you're right, there are 'a few' ruthless fans out there, but they are few and far between. I can honestly say that amongst our fan base, you hold a minority opinion of RW. You need to recognize that the vast majority fans that do think Russell was dishonest don't hold him with the same degree of contempt as you have.

[RiverDog]

So River are you saying Jodi should have fired PC and brought back Russ with a new young offensive minded coach? After having heard all the backstory about feuding, checking out?

Yes, I think Jody should have fired Pete, and done so before the end of the regular season. As far as Russell having 'checked out', that's your opinion based on a cherry picked, truncated quote that also said that Pete was equally to blame.

[RiverDog]

I agree with ASF except for the last paragraph.

I wanted to see Pete Carroll get fired this season, and I still think that Jody Allen's hesitancy to pull the trigger was a colossal mistake. But I get the feeling that Pete has changed, that something occurred within him to make him more humble, admit to himself that the game was starting to pass him by, that he needed a reset.

So we'll see if my intuition is correct, if he gives his OC more autonomy, if he adapts. Most likely not, but who knows.

I don't think he's changed myself. I don't think there is any reason to. His coaching philosophy is absolutely fine. His schemes are fine. If you mean he's finally going back to the basics in team building, then I hope that change did happen. Carroll is at his best when he's building up a young team. He doesn't seem so good at maintaining a veteran team. And after that Super Bowl loss, I don't think that team could recover from that psychological blow.

Neither one of us knows whether or not Pete has changed. I'm basing my opinion on this year's draft as it was a marked departure from the ones from the past 10 or so seasons. No trading down, no early reaches, emphasis on the OL and DL lines, didn't take a QB in a weak class. I always felt that Pete and John had a certain degree of arrogance about them, that they had their own, unique system, that the didn't need highly ranked players to make it work, that the system was better than the players in it. This draft seemed to indicate a change in their outlook, an admission that what they've been doing in the past wasn't working.