KJ and the bad play call

[Stream Hawk]

I have always thought that once we win another one, the conversation will die. Otherwise it’s kind of endless. Hopefully that can happen with the rebuild & without the divisive Russell.

Time & winning a sb made me a little less mad about sb 40’s blown calls.

[Aseahawkfan]

I'm not sure if I buy into the 3rd year QB thing. Rookies and even 2nd year QB's, yes, but by the time they get through their third season like Russell had, they've pretty well adapted to the league and their offense. Most 3rd year QB's have a considerable amount of autonomy. Justin Hebert, for example, will be entering his 3rd year, and I expect him to have quite a bit of authority when it comes to changing plays and adjusting a game plan. I also don't think that Russell hit the optimum ball placement with his pass. It should have been a little lower and closer to Lockette's body, forcing him to go down for the ball instead of leaving it up where a defender could intervene. But that's just the opinion of a beer drinking Monday morning armchair quarterback.

I don't buy the story about Beast wanting to change the play. He might have thought it, perhaps even said it out loud, but no one would have paid any attention to him, nor should they have.

I watched an interview with Tom Brady where he still ran the plays as called by Bill B even to the last year he was with the Patriots. Why? That is how Bill B wanted it. You watched Hass for years and how pissed off Mike Holmgren would get if Hass did not run what Holmgren wanted run. So not sure why you think it's different for Russ. It was clearly stated that the passing play called was a 1 read and throw play. You hit the spot, bang bang done. It wasn't a multiple read play. That is when a QB is expected to read the defense making multiple reads through a receiver progression. It wasn't a read option play because Russ running risks the clock winding down.

That play in particular was a one read, fast play to avoid using much clock and take a shot at the end zone. There was only one read. The only other option would have been Russ throwing it away as Russ holding on to it and running would damage the clock. If you want to bash Russ for not throwing the ball away, have at it. There was nothing else for him to do but throw to the spot or throw it away. That was the play. One read, bang bang. Done. Down over, if it doesn't work, then we move to a run play or read option. If it does, take the field on defense.

This is the part I don't understand why anyone is debating. It was clearly stated it was a one read and throw play. That means no read progression, No reading the defense, no checking for other receivers. It was also stated that no running or risking a sack or holding onto the ball as that risks the clock and field position. So the options are make the read and throw or throw the ball away if the play looks dead. Russ threw the ball to the spot he expected the receiver to be at. Kearse failed to get the pick on Browner, which opened the passing route to get jumped by Butler. Butler made an amazing read and beat Lockette to the spot to make the interception. Amazing play by the DB. But that's the play.

It was a bad play call because the chance of Kearse picking Browner was slim to none. If that pick doesn't work, you risk the route getting jumped as was done. I doubt many QBs make the read to throw the ball away as that was the only other options, especially young QBs like Russ. Those were the only two options Russ had, period. A one read and throw play allows for nothing else and the clock did not allow for improvisation or running. It worked fast or not at all and it failed in spectacular fashion due to the pick failing to seal off the route which led to Butler making the aggressive and successful route jump.

I spent too much time analyzing this play. It was a terrible play call mainly due the personnel. I think only Baldwin could have made that route work myself or Tate if he were still with us. Lockette was the worst person to pick for that type of route. Kearse was never gonna push Browner off his position, no receiver in the league was doing that. I doubt even a TE could pick Browner myself.

We'll have to live with it. Pete will have to live with it. The whole team will have to live with knowing that a bad play call stopped them from back to back Super Bowls and reaching true dynasty status.

[NorthHawk]

Didn’t the OC have contact with Russ until the 15 second mark like today?
If so, the OC could have told him to switch to their 2nd play in the headset when he saw the Defense was stacking
the middle where the pass play was supposed to go.
I maintain that it’s all on the coaches for that disaster.

[ACES 13]

So many good points in this thread, but I am surprised no one points out the primary receiver on this play was basically our Ace Return Man and our fifth receiver! Also Browner being in their defensive backfield he probably recognize the play from the formation and told his teammates what they were running. I'm over it! Butler made a great play lock it should not have been the primary receiver! That's my take. If it would have worked it would have been the best play a call of all time!

[RiverDog]

So many good points in this thread, but I am surprised no one points out the primary receiver on this play was basically our Ace Return Man and our fifth receiver! Also Browner being in their defensive backfield he probably recognize the play from the formation and told his teammates what they were running. I'm over it! Butler made a great play lock it should not have been the primary receiver! That's my take. If it would have worked it would have been the best play a call of all time!

The two starting WR's were Baldwin and Kearse. The #3 man was Paul Richardson, who got hurt in the divisional round of the playoffs and wasn't available for the SB. Lockette was the #4 WR, unless you're counting Percy Harvin, who was traded in Week 7. I don't have a huge problem with him being the primary target as he was experienced and was a relatively reliable receiver. My biggest beef was the play call. I don't like the idea of a 5'10" QB throwing over the middle on a congested field.

I'll never get over it. We had an opportunity to win two SB's in a row, which is rarified air. I doubt that we'll have that opportunity again in my lifetime.

[Aseahawkfan]

Didn’t the OC have contact with Russ until the 15 second mark like today?
If so, the OC could have told him to switch to their 2nd play in the headset when he saw the Defense was stacking
the middle where the pass play was supposed to go.
I maintain that it’s all on the coaches for that disaster.

There was no second play to my knowledge. The entire idea behind this play was to take a shot at the end zone with a one read fast pass play that would eat very little clock, stop the clock if it failed, then set up for a run play with Lynch on the following downs. It was more of a take a shot at the end zone, if it works cool, if not then we have time to set up the last few run plays with Lynch. They called the play, then started focusing on what to do after almost immediately from what I understand. It was an almost throwaway play no one thought would fail in such a spectacular fashion.

That part I kind of understand. It was such a fast play no one should have had time to make a play on the ball. But Butler made an absolutely amazing play reading that and jumping the route aggressively. It took an amazing read and jump by Butler. I don't question that at all.

[Aseahawkfan]

So many good points in this thread, but I am surprised no one points out the primary receiver on this play was basically our Ace Return Man and our fifth receiver! Also Browner being in their defensive backfield he probably recognize the play from the formation and told his teammates what they were running. I'm over it! Butler made a great play lock it should not have been the primary receiver! That's my take. If it would have worked it would have been the best play a call of all time!

We all acknowledge that. Unlike Riverdog I do have a problem with Lockette being the receiver in that situation. Lockette is a guy that was drafted due to his elite speed and size. He was a 6'2" receiver who could run a 4.2 40. He was much like D.K. Metcalf without the hands and route running. He couldn't run precise routes and he had a lot of drops. So we decide to have him run a very precise route and make a bang bang catch with no time. Seems like a really bad use of personnel IMO. I don't blame Lockette for an OC asking him to do more than he's been capable of in a high pressure big game situation.

Browner likely did alert the defense. Probably saw the Kearse pick coming and knew Kearse couldn't move him. If Browner and Kearse got in a fight in the street, Browner would murder Kearse without breaking a sweat. All you gotta do is watch the video of Browner completely obliterating three defenders on special teams on the same play or ramming through a blocker to strip the ball off the RB against Carolina or beat up that GB receiver to know no one is going to out-physical Browner. Browner was a physical freak at CB. If he could flip his hips, he probably be a pro bowler.

[RiverDog]

We all acknowledge that. Unlike Riverdog I do have a problem with Lockette being the receiver in that situation. Lockette is a guy that was drafted due to his elite speed and size. He was a 6'2" receiver who could run a 4.2 40. He was much like D.K. Metcalf without the hands and route running. He couldn't run precise routes and he had a lot of drops. So we decide to have him run a very precise route and make a bang bang catch with no time. Seems like a really bad use of personnel IMO. I don't blame Lockette for an OC asking him to do more than he's been capable of in a high pressure big game situation.

I didn't say that I didn't have a problem with Lockette being the primary receiver in that situation. I said that I didn't have a huge problem. Would I have preferred it was Doug Baldwin or Jermaine Kearse? Yes. I just thought that the biggest problem was the actual play selection.

Browner likely did alert the defense. Probably saw the Kearse pick coming and knew Kearse couldn't move him. If Browner and Kearse got in a fight in the street, Browner would murder Kearse without breaking a sweat. All you gotta do is watch the video of Browner completely obliterating three defenders on special teams on the same play or ramming through a blocker to strip the ball off the RB against Carolina or beat up that GB receiver to know no one is going to out-physical Browner. Browner was a physical freak at CB. If he could flip his hips, he probably be a pro bowler.

Agreed about Browner. He was one of the founding members of the original LOB. In addition to not being very agile, he had a problem with penalties when he was with us, drew a lot of PI's.

[Hawktawk]

So many good points in this thread, but I am surprised no one points out the primary receiver on this play was basically our Ace Return Man and our fifth receiver! Also Browner being in their defensive backfield he probably recognize the play from the formation and told his teammates what they were running. I'm over it! Butler made a great play lock it should not have been the primary receiver! That's my take. If it would have worked it would have been the best play a call of all time!

The two starting WR's were Baldwin and Kearse. The #3 man was Paul Richardson, who got hurt in the divisional round of the playoffs and wasn't available for the SB. Lockette was the #4 WR, unless you're counting Percy Harvin, who was traded in Week 7. I don't have a huge problem with him being the primary target as he was experienced and was a relatively reliable receiver. My biggest beef was the play call. I don't like the idea of a 5'10" QB throwing over the middle on a congested field.

I'll never get over it. We had an opportunity to win two SB's in a row, which is rarified air. I doubt that we'll have that opportunity again in my lifetime.

This I agree with . Also had wanted to bring up P rich because he was our Hamlin in a way , beginning to take the top off and be a reliable dynaminc receiver . His injury really degraded us at the position .

But in the end it’s you that quoted Huard as did I . Don’t let a skunk stink . He made 3 critical errors ending with “ he led him too much “ from Collinswirth “ I can’t believe the play call “ .
I never gave Russ a complete pass . As bad as the call was if he puts it on the numbers it’s a TD . Bad call bad read it’s still a few inches from glory . If it’s and buts was candy and nuts we would all have a merry Christmas . I take the good with the bad . There are teams that have not been to one . Much less three . Many don’t have a Lombardi . Few have been to back to back. You think we had it bad ? How about the bills ? 49 bothers me less than XL. That was taken by the officials . This was Seattle at its finest clawing back to the 1 for another heart stopping victory like so many before . I was proud of the team including Russell. It’s in hindsight when he’s talking about how he wants to win 2 or 3 more it’s a bit hard to swallow for me .

[tarlhawk]

Its a shame to end a great game in such dramatic fashion...I still feel uneasy about what the Patriot rookie Cornerback Malcom Butler said immediately after the game. Normally a rookie doesn't jump routes since their lack of experience gives them little play recognition but Malcom stated he "recognized" the play called as something the Patriots had covered in practice so New England was ready when we tried it on them. Bevell said it was a rarely used play that had been used earlier in the 2014 season and was surprised they "recognized" it.

[Hawktawk]

Its a shame to end a great game in such dramatic fashion...I still feel uneasy about what the Patriot rookie Cornerback Malcom Butler said immediately after the game. Normally a rookie doesn't jump routes since their lack of experience gives them little play recognition but Malcom stated he "recognized" the play called as something the Patriots had covered in practice so New England was ready when we tried it on them. Bevell said it was a rarely used play that had been used earlier in the 2014 season and was surprised they "recognized" it.

Browner had been with the organization a year earlier . Butlers story is that Belichick grilled him for 2 weeks running that play over and over every practice “ get over the top! The only way to stop it is get over the top “ but he said the only time he got over the top was that play . Bill had done some film study . Who knows maybe they filmed our practice The Goat …..

[govandals]

Here we go again, huh? The most over analyzed play since the Immaculate Reception. Here is my random thoughts. I've watched this game countless times.
Seems most people want to blame somebody for the loss. Blame Malcolm Butler. It's a savy, fantastic, perfect play by him.
Passing the ball was absolutely the correct call. However that pass to that player was not. Replace Lockette with Chris Matthews on that play and we probably win. Russ rolling out or a fade to Matthews would have been better choices as well.
I cannot understand those who say just give the ball to Lynch. I've seen folks spew forth all sorts of numbers on our short yardage run game that season. We simply were not good at that. This was a Tom Cable ZBS line, not built for cramming the ball down the other guys throat.
Not the best throw by Russ. Should have been more into Lockette's body, he led him too much. Short/intermediate accuracy has never been a Russ strength, yet in the biggest moment on the biggest stage, Bevel puts Russ in that situation.
Poor job by Russ not identifing Butler.
Kearse did his job on Browner. He pushes him back 2-3 yards. Those blaming Kearse for not "picking" Browner need to watch the play again. What else could he have done? Browner had no effect on that play at all.
Obviously, the injuries on defense took a toll. Avril's concussion was big but Lane's injuries were huge. Tharold Simon was abused in the 4th quarter. No one mentions the fact Marcus Burley was inactive for this game, be was a decent backup nickel CB. IIRC, Simon was more an outside CB and not a nickel.
I've lost a little respect for KJ Wright for his comments.
Whether you like Pete Carroll or not, big kudos to him for always taking ownership for that fiasco. To my knowledge, he has never publicly blamed anyone but himself.

[Hawktawk]

[quote="RiverDog"

I didn't accuse you of making things up or Lynch of lying. What I said was that I don't buy the story. It doesn't fit the facts surrounding the circumstances of the 20 or 25 seconds the team had between the end of the previous play and when they had to break the huddle and get to the LOS. There's just too many other things that has to be communicated during that very short period of time for Lynch's account as you described it to be true.

Our memories are funny things. There are some things that we remember as clearly and accurately as if they happened seconds ago, yet there are other things that where, after being influenced by external factors, like the truly endless debate about that play call, when our memories are altered without our being aware of it. Memories can fade, causing us to forget about certain details, unintentionally leave out certain facts. People can be mistaken without intentionally being dishonest. Memories alone aren't a reliable means to come to a firm conclusion, especially when you start marking the elapsed time in multiple years. That's one of the reasons why we have a statute of limitations on certain crimes, because memories can't be trusted to last that long.

I have never heard anything that would indicate that Russell didn't believe in that play call and until now, never heard anyone say that the team was confused. I'm not buying what you're selling.[/quote]

Either Lynch is a flat out liar or you need to eat it River. Here you go.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEOZHjw8WM0

[Hawktawk]

Here we go again, huh? The most over analyzed play since the Immaculate Reception. Here is my random thoughts. I've watched this game countless times.
Seems most people want to blame somebody for the loss. Blame Malcolm Butler. It's a savy, fantastic, perfect play by him.
Passing the ball was absolutely the correct call. However that pass to that player was not. Replace Lockette with Chris Matthews on that play and we probably win. Russ rolling out or a fade to Matthews would have been better choices as well.
I cannot understand those who say just give the ball to Lynch. I've seen folks spew forth all sorts of numbers on our short yardage run game that season. We simply were not good at that. This was a Tom Cable ZBS line, not built for cramming the ball down the other guys throat.
Not the best throw by Russ. Should have been more into Lockette's body, he led him too much. Short/intermediate accuracy has never been a Russ strength, yet in the biggest moment on the biggest stage, Bevel puts Russ in that situation.
Poor job by Russ not identifing Butler.
Kearse did his job on Browner. He pushes him back 2-3 yards. Those blaming Kearse for not "picking" Browner need to watch the play again. What else could he have done? Browner had no effect on that play at all.
Obviously, the injuries on defense took a toll. Avril's concussion was big but Lane's injuries were huge. Tharold Simon was abused in the 4th quarter. No one mentions the fact Marcus Burley was inactive for this game, be was a decent backup nickel CB. IIRC, Simon was more an outside CB and not a nickel.
I've lost a little respect for KJ Wright for his comments.
Whether you like Pete Carroll or not, big kudos to him for always taking ownership for that fiasco. To my knowledge, he has never publicly blamed anyone but himself.

I agree with every single thing you've said other than I think Kearse was expected to impede Butler with a rub route. He didn't get near him because Browner held him with cloth in both hands. How Bevell didn't understand that was gonna be the result calling plays against the dude a couple years earlier ....Yes Carroll took all the blame but Im just gonna say Bill wouldnt , Arians wouldnt have.

Blame all around. It was still a hell of a run, a hell of a drive too till that last play. Bevell called all the other plays on that drive too.

[Aseahawkfan]

Here we go again, huh? The most over analyzed play since the Immaculate Reception. Here is my random thoughts. I've watched this game countless times.
Seems most people want to blame somebody for the loss. Blame Malcolm Butler. It's a savy, fantastic, perfect play by him.
Passing the ball was absolutely the correct call. However that pass to that player was not. Replace Lockette with Chris Matthews on that play and we probably win. Russ rolling out or a fade to Matthews would have been better choices as well.
I cannot understand those who say just give the ball to Lynch. I've seen folks spew forth all sorts of numbers on our short yardage run game that season. We simply were not good at that. This was a Tom Cable ZBS line, not built for cramming the ball down the other guys throat.
Not the best throw by Russ. Should have been more into Lockette's body, he led him too much. Short/intermediate accuracy has never been a Russ strength, yet in the biggest moment on the biggest stage, Bevel puts Russ in that situation.
Poor job by Russ not identifing Butler.
Kearse did his job on Browner. He pushes him back 2-3 yards. Those blaming Kearse for not "picking" Browner need to watch the play again. What else could he have done? Browner had no effect on that play at all.
Obviously, the injuries on defense took a toll. Avril's concussion was big but Lane's injuries were huge. Tharold Simon was abused in the 4th quarter. No one mentions the fact Marcus Burley was inactive for this game, be was a decent backup nickel CB. IIRC, Simon was more an outside CB and not a nickel.
I've lost a little respect for KJ Wright for his comments.
Whether you like Pete Carroll or not, big kudos to him for always taking ownership for that fiasco. To my knowledge, he has never publicly blamed anyone but himself.

I have watched the play again and listened to the interviews. Kearse pick did not work. Kearse was supposed to run across drawing Browner with him and block the route. Instead he ran into Browner, barely moved him, got jammed, and left the path to jump the route open. The pick was supposed to seal the route from getting jumped. So no, the pick did not work against Browner. That is what a failed football pick looks like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7rPIg7ZNQ8

Here is a very clear view of the play. Browner stops Kearse from running his route. It wasn't a block. He ran into Browner and could not overpower him to draw him along the route. No hold was called because Kearse ran into him. He wasn't supposed to mix it up with Browner and push him directly back. He was supposed to run across in front of Lockette to seal the route, which did not happen because Kearse wasn't capable of moving Browner in that fashion.

That pushing Browner back a few yards was a failed pick with Kearse yelling about getting held. When you can jam the receiver in the first 5 yards. Kearse got jammed and didn't turn inside pulling Browner along like he was supposed to. Which Bevell should have known would happen because Browner was literally trained by Carroll to jam the receiver and slow them down and it was one of the talents that made him valuable to Seattle in those early years.

Sorry, you are wrong on Browner not affecting that play. Browner won his match up, prevented Kearse from running the route he was supposed to run, jammed him real good, and made sure he did not get moved along the route to seal off Butler from jumping the route. Perfect play by Browner we've seen him do in Seattle many times jamming receivers at the line and disrupting their routes.

[RiverDog]

I'm with HT and ASF on this one. Browner was the key to that play. He stuffed Kearse, kept him from getting into his route, allowing Butler not to have to cover him on a slant and come down and jump in front of Lockette. I've heard this analyzed time and time again, more so than any play in Seahawk history.

[govandals]

I always thought Kearse was supposed to jam Browner on the play, Lockette comes in behind and catches the ball. This all happens so quickly that Butler cannot process the play in time and it's an easy score but Butler just jumped the route. You are saying Kearse is supposed to run a route basically directly in front of Lockette? If this is true, then yes, Kearse failed real bad and I digress. I don't see Kearse attempting to run a route at all. Even after Browner's initial stiff arm, Kearse has the early positioning to turn inside and run said route, but doesn't. Why? He just drives Browner backward. i thought Kearse's PI hand signaling to the ref after the play is because he thought Butler interfered with Lockette, not because he was held.

There is a thread over on FG about KJ's comments. There is 240+ posts in the comments section, many discuss this play and Kearse blocking/jamming Browner. Not one person states Kearse is supposed to run any kind of route on the play. Is there a link out in internet land with discussion as to what Kearse's responsibility on the play really was?

[Aseahawkfan]

I always thought Kearse was supposed to jam Browner on the play, Lockette comes in behind and catches the ball. This all happens so quickly that Butler cannot process the play in time and it's an easy score but Butler just jumped the route. You are saying Kearse is supposed to run a route basically directly in front of Lockette? If this is true, then yes, Kearse failed real bad and I digress. I don't see Kearse attempting to run a route at all. Even after Browner's initial stiff arm, Kearse has the early positioning to turn inside and run said route, but doesn't. Why? He just drives Browner backward. i thought Kearse's PI hand signaling to the ref after the play is because he thought Butler interfered with Lockette, not because he was held.

There is a thread over on FG about KJ's comments. There is 240+ posts in the comments section, many discuss this play and Kearse blocking/jamming Browner. Not one person states Kearse is supposed to run any kind of route on the play. Is there a link out in internet land with discussion as to what Kearse's responsibility on the play really was?

The play was designed where Kearse would run and cut inside drawing Browner and sealing off the defender from Lockette who was supposed to immediately turnaround and catch the ball. Kearse got jammed before he turned in. In the NFL a receiver can't make contact with the defender and if he does so, he's considered to make voluntary contact and give up the normal receiver protections becoming a blocker. But Browner jammed Kearse so he couldn't continue along his route and turn inside setting the pick and the refs looked at Kearse as having made voluntary contact and didn't call the hold. That is why some Seattle fans thought Browner should have been called for a hold. From what I understand WR picks are illegal that require physical contact, but OCs still run them as long as it looks like a naturally developing route which was the play design.

Pete trained Browner to jam and jam hard. So not sure why he thought Kearse would be able to pick Browner and continue along the route when he knew Browner would jam him hard like he trained him to do.

The one part I agree with you is Butler made an amazing play. Even with the pick going wrong, the read was spot on and the interception the play of his career.

I still hate the play though. Worst call in NFL history IMO. If they do worst play calls in history, that one will be on the list if not number one. The play design was fine. But I find the the use of personnel and lack of awareness of the personnel you're going against to be an egregious mistake. We knew Browner very, very well and how he had been trained to defend. Picks don't work against a dude like that. You want to avoid physical entanglement with Browner as much as possible. If Browner jams you and disrupts the route, he basically won his personal battle.

[Hawktawk]

It is certainly one of the worst super bowl calls in history . If it were in the second quarter not even close . But 20 seconds . Did Bevell understand the defensive personell at the time the play was sent in ? If he didn’t then once again Russ needs to be very wary with Browner guarding Kearse over there knowing the play he was supposed to run. I shared the you tube video of Lynch being interviewed about 48-49 SB. If anyone watched that and was offended by the language I apologize . But lynch described confusion , Russ asking about changing the call . It’s not a blame game . Just what happened. Sometimes I wonder if we would have been better off getting beat in that turd of a game by Wilson vs GB, coming back humble the next year .

[Aseahawkfan]

It is certainly one of the worst super bowl calls in history . If it were in the second quarter not even close . But 20 seconds . Did Bevell understand the defensive personell at the time the play was sent in ? If he didn’t then once again Russ needs to be very wary with Browner guarding Kearse over there knowing the play he was supposed to run. I shared the you tube video of Lynch being interviewed about 48-49 SB. If anyone watched that and was offended by the language I apologize . But lynch described confusion , Russ asking about changing the call . It’s not a blame game . Just what happened. Sometimes I wonder if we would have been better off getting beat in that turd of a game by Wilson vs GB, coming back humble the next year .

The Green Bay win is part of the legendary nature of that team. Same as the legendary mistake. To beat that insane Seattle team, it took major injuries to key players in the secondary and pass rush and an egregious play call. The final call was part of why we loss, but losing Cliff Avril and Jeremy Lane who were both having a hell of a game were major reasons for losing too. If even one of those things changes, we win IMO. I think if Cliff Avril doesn't get hurt, the pressure on Brady does not let up and he crumbles to the worst loss of his postseason history. That was the biggest factor. Once that pressure let up and we had Tharold Simon playing CB, Brady went to town where he was stifled before that occurred.

Soon as Tharold came in and Cliff was out, it was like Seattle was wounded and the best QB in NFL history sees something like that like a shark: time to tear it open. They went after Tharold Simon as quickly as I've seen anyone go after us since Ken Whisenhunt went after Etric Pruitt in the 2005 Super Bowl. They were looking for any weakness in the Seattle defense. They finally had one after two of our key players went down. They would have lost badly if Avril and Lane did not go down.

It was amazing that Russell kept us in the game with Chris Matthews, Kearse, and Doug Baldwin being guarded by Darrelle Revis, the 2nd best CB in the NFL to our guy Sherm who Brady didn't even want to throw near. Lane was having a hell of a game before he got hurt. So was Avril. Completely changed everything when they went down.

Those injuries are just part of Brady's legendary career. To be as good as Brady and Bill B were, you have to be lucky as well as great. Brady and Bill B got lucky that game attacking a weak spot in the Seattle defense as soon as it showed up in a merciless fashion. They destroyed Tharold Simon, embarrassed him.

[RiverDog]

The Green Bay win is part of the legendary nature of that team. Same as the legendary mistake. To beat that insane Seattle team, it took major injuries to key players in the secondary and pass rush and an egregious play call. The final call was part of why we loss, but losing Cliff Avril and Jeremy Lane who were both having a hell of a game were major reasons for losing too. If even one of those things changes, we win IMO. I think if Cliff Avril doesn't get hurt, the pressure on Brady does not let up and he crumbles to the worst loss of his postseason history. That was the biggest factor. Once that pressure let up and we had Tharold Simon playing CB, Brady went to town where he was stifled before that occurred.

Soon as Tharold came in and Cliff was out, it was like Seattle was wounded and the best QB in NFL history sees something like that like a shark: time to tear it open. They went after Tharold Simon as quickly as I've seen anyone go after us since Ken Whisenhunt went after Etric Pruitt in the 2005 Super Bowl. They were looking for any weakness in the Seattle defense. They finally had one after two of our key players went down. They would have lost badly if Avril and Lane did not go down.

It was amazing that Russell kept us in the game with Chris Matthews, Kearse, and Doug Baldwin being guarded by Darrelle Revis, the 2nd best CB in the NFL to our guy Sherm who Brady didn't even want to throw near. Lane was having a hell of a game before he got hurt. So was Avril. Completely changed everything when they went down.

Those injuries are just part of Brady's legendary career. To be as good as Brady and Bill B were, you have to be lucky as well as great. Brady and Bill B got lucky that game attacking a weak spot in the Seattle defense as soon as it showed up in a merciless fashion. They destroyed Tharold Simon, embarrassed him.

Tharold Simon embarrassed himself that game. I remember Julian Edleman turning him inside out and after each catch, Simon would turn around with his palms up begging for a penalty, as if he needed some excuse for letting Edleman take him to the cleaners, like going into a limp after getting beat in a foot race. It was ridiculous, and it's what got the Pats back in the game.

Funny thing about Mathews. He was a one hit wonder. We picked him up late when Richardson got hurt in the divisional round of the playoffs. He had a great 1st half, looked like an All Pro until the Pats put Browner on him and took him out of the game. He could have been an argument for SB MVP had he caught another TD pass. I'm not sure if he played in another NFL game after that.

[Aseahawkfan]

Tharold Simon embarrassed himself that game. I remember Julian Edleman turning him inside out and after each catch, Simon would turn around with his palms up begging for a penalty, as if he needed some excuse for letting Edleman take him to the cleaners, like going into a limp after getting beat in a foot race. It was ridiculous, and it's what got the Pats back in the game.

Funny thing about Mathews. He was a one hit wonder. We picked him up late when Richardson got hurt in the divisional round of the playoffs. He had a great 1st half, looked like an All Pro until the Pats put Browner on him and took him out of the game. He could have been an argument for SB MVP had he caught another TD pass. I'm not sure if he played in another NFL game after that.

Just another reason why Russell was so amazing. He went into that Super Bowl with perhaps the weakest receiver group in Super Bowl history or close to it. He made them look great including the one hit wonder that almost won Super Bowl MVP. New England had a great secondary that year with Darrelle Revis and Browner doing their best rendition of the Legion of Boom. Brady had way better receiving targets than Russ, but Russ still made it work. I'm going to miss Russ. It was sure nice having a QB that was great on and off the field. The kind of guy you could look at and says, "Kids, be like Russ" and know that he would always set a great example of how to be in the game and out of the game. Russ made me think we had Steve Largent playing QB. A guy no one expected to succeed to the level he did who just kept on proving his haters wrong while still carrying himself like a class act and a great member of the community.

[RiverDog]

Tharold Simon embarrassed himself that game. I remember Julian Edleman turning him inside out and after each catch, Simon would turn around with his palms up begging for a penalty, as if he needed some excuse for letting Edleman take him to the cleaners, like going into a limp after getting beat in a foot race. It was ridiculous, and it's what got the Pats back in the game.

Funny thing about Mathews. He was a one hit wonder. We picked him up late when Richardson got hurt in the divisional round of the playoffs. He had a great 1st half, looked like an All Pro until the Pats put Browner on him and took him out of the game. He could have been an argument for SB MVP had he caught another TD pass. I'm not sure if he played in another NFL game after that.

Just another reason why Russell was so amazing. He went into that Super Bowl with perhaps the weakest receiver group in Super Bowl history or close to it. He made them look great including the one hit wonder that almost won Super Bowl MVP. New England had a great secondary that year with Darrelle Revis and Browner doing their best rendition of the Legion of Boom. Brady had way better receiving targets than Russ, but Russ still made it work. I'm going to miss Russ. It was sure nice having a QB that was great on and off the field. The kind of guy you could look at and says, "Kids, be like Russ" and know that he would always set a great example of how to be in the game and out of the game. Russ made me think we had Steve Largent playing QB. A guy no one expected to succeed to the level he did who just kept on proving his haters wrong while still carrying himself like a class act and a great member of the community.

Agreed, and it plays into my argument about wide receivers and why I want to trade Metcalf. Trade him now and use the draft picks and salary space to find our next QBOTF. We can make do without a stud receiver, but we can't make do without a stud QB.

[govandals]

A while back I saw stats showing Brady's numbers before and after the Avril injury, it was pretty remarkable. Darned if I can find it now, though.

[Hawktawk]

The Avril injury was caused by an obvious intentional head butt . Lanes injury was caused by an obviously intentional calculated shot on lanes knee while it was planted causing devastating injury. It took the only man capable of covering Edelman out right after he had picked Brady . Last year Brady called for penalties for shots to a knee joint after Godwin was injured on an unintentional hit . I had to throw up in my mouth a little . I recall Browner making comments pre game about “ hurting “ our defenders if they get a chance . I never understood how a league who suspended Payton a year let Browner play . Or the Roid freak Edelman who got hit so hard he was calling us the rams the rest of the game but still had enough savvy to push off on Simon twice on one TD catch with full arm extension . If you think that was just on Simon look again . Between intentional fouls knocking out key Seahawks and the nonsense Butler got away with the entire second half it’s clear the refs weren’t our buddies . Not XL but not good. Need to get off this game it just angers me every time I think about it .

[NorthHawk]

I think you're grasping at straws here. It's football, and nothing more.

[Hawktawk]

I think you're grasping at straws here. It's football, and nothing more.

I’ll never be an apologist for anything in that game . Browner said what he said and clearly 2 critical guys were knocked out . Avril’s was illegal, lanes was a dirty play by a dirty player . And I’ll defend Simon on a double push off too . But you go ahead and accept it was just football . I won’t .

[Uppercut]

If the play was a success two things would have happened with about 40 seconds left.

1. Brady would have gone the distance and threw the winning TD

2. Sea D would have stopped Brady and sports people would be talking about "What a gutsy call PC made on second down to win"

[Aseahawkfan]

If the play was a success two things would have happened with about 40 seconds left.

1. Brady would have gone the distance and threw the winning TD

2. Sea D would have stopped Brady and sports people would be talking about "What a gutsy call PC made on second down to win"

True. Success avoids criticism, failure invites it.

[Hawktawk]

There were 20 seconds left . Nobody doubts it was possible Brady gets them into FG range . Or Lynch gets stuffed or fumbles or scores . We will never know . I’d rather have lost that way then how we did .

[RiverDog]

I was honestly hoping that we wouldn't score on that play. I wanted to run the clock down and score with less than 10 seconds left on the clock.

[Hawktawk]

I was honestly hoping that we wouldn't score on that play. I wanted to run the clock down and score with less than 10 seconds left on the clock.

So it’s your fault then after all

[RiverDog]

I was honestly hoping that we wouldn't score on that play. I wanted to run the clock down and score with less than 10 seconds left on the clock.

So it’s your fault then after all

Hehe. Yeah, I know that the odds were about 95% of us winning had we scored, but I had these flashbacks of that playoff game in Atlanta a few years earlier.

[ACES 13]

I'll never get over it. We had an opportunity to win two SB's in a row, which is rarified air. I doubt that we'll have that opportunity again in my lifetime.

Really,
Is your everlasting perception that our HAWKS are less than the dominant "D" that they were...statistically better than the '85 Bears, who pounded the Donkeys 43-8, who boasted the number 1 "O" statistically of all time...with HOF'er Peyton Manning leading the ... charge, get over it!!!

It's only a game! RD! Relax, live for today, you may be gone tomorrow!

Peace, and Serenity to you my FRIEND!

[RiverDog]

I'll never get over it. We had an opportunity to win two SB's in a row, which is rarified air. I doubt that we'll have that opportunity again in my lifetime.

Really,
Is your everlasting perception that our HAWKS are less than the dominant "D" that they were...statistically better than the '85 Bears, who pounded the Donkeys 43-8, who boasted the number 1 "O" statistically of all time...with HOF'er Peyton Manning leading the ... charge, get over it!!!

It's only a game! RD! Relax, live for today, you may be gone tomorrow!

Peace, and Serenity to you my FRIEND!

Thanks, guy!

[I-5]

If Lane hadn't broken his arm by the dirty play, Brady wouldn't have had a field day on his replacement Simon..I think that was the deciding factor more than any one play. But yeah, that play sucked. Not the pass call, but that particular route that close to the end zone and that execution.

[Hawktawk]

Roid freak broke both lanes arm and leg on the same dirty play . As a bigger thicker guy he came in high and dove right at his knee .it wasn’t just deflating balls and filming opponents . 2 of our defenders were intentionally injured

[Aseahawkfan]

Roid freak broke both lanes arm and leg on the same dirty play . As a bigger thicker guy he came in high and dove right at his knee .it wasn’t just deflating balls and filming opponents . 2 of our defenders were intentionally injured

It was dirty. Super irritating. Patriots always been dirty.