Russell Wilson trade results thus far

[Old but Slow]

In looking at the trade, I am only really concerned about our end of it. I am hoping for value from the players we gained and the other assets. We are building a team as is Denver, and I expect Russell to be very good for them. But whether Russ does very well or very badly means little to me except that I enjoy watching him. The trade should be evaluated by how it works for the Seahawks, not how well it works for Denver.

It is understood that a trade involves 2 or more parties, but I am not concerned that we might have helped an AFC team. Even should Denver go to the Superb Owl, it does not mean that we would have gone if we had not traded. No, I will focus on how the Seahawks adapt and grow, and on that I will rate the trade (in a couple of years).

While I have never been a Bronco fan, but I will follow them a little more closely now because I am a fan of Russell Wilson and what he has done for us. But, I won't be rooting.

[Aseahawkfan]

Yeah, arguing that a 10 year veteran that has gone to two Super Bowls is going to wilt under pressure simply because he's playing for a different team is pretty laughable. He'll be excited to be with a new team, anxious to produce for them, but that's a lot different emotion than feeling pressured.

However, Russell's going to have to change the way he was doing things here for the past 1.5 years if he's going to be successful. He can't be passing up 8-15 yard open receivers on 3rd down in lieu of trying to find a deep ball target, and he's going to have to use the entire field rather than ignoring the middle. His 3rd down completion percentage really sucked. There were times that I felt that his having Metcalf available was counter productive.

Having said that, he obviously has the ability to be self critical and change his game, get back to what was working for him.

But what none of us know is if this is Pete's design or Russ choosing to play this way which is what some fans seem to think. Yet I've never known a QB other than Peyton who picked the offense they play in. More like the coach finds a QB who can run the offense they want to run. When Russ first came into the league, Pete built the entire offense on Russ's deep ball ability and scrambling ability. It's not like Russ thought this up. It was Pete who embraced it and made it part of the offense. I remember the receivers talking about scrambling drills during practice and immediately falling into scramble drills when they saw Russ running. Pete has always preached, "Run to move the ball, throw to score." He likes the play action deep pass play with a grinding run game. He hired an OC to train Russ this way for years. Pete has stated quite a few times that putting the ball in the air leads to higher turnovers. He hates turnovers. So he prefers that lower volume passing game. He's not a WCO short passing game guy.

I know he's made comments about Russ taking the check down. But when you've already trained a guy to play a certain way for years and he's been producing at a high level, does Pete really encourage the check down or is he just saying it sometimes as a random comment like when they talk about using the TE more and never do.

I guess we'll see what kind of offense they run in Denver and if that OC truly commits to building an offense around more use of short passing. I really want to see what Russ does when not with Pete. I want to see what Pete does when not with Russ. I think Pete likes the play action deep pass game built off the run. He'll run that type of offense if he has the QB to do it. He'll encourage that type of offense. Just as giving up explosive plays on defense reduces win percentage, making explosive plays on offense increases win percentage. Those are the metrics Pete follows on both sides of the ball. I doubt we'll see a short passing game in Seattle with Carroll unless he has absolutely no choice because his QB sucks like Geno who can only safely throw high percentage short passes. If Geno starts trying to throw deep, he'll rack up the ints and Pete will freak out. Not sure about Lock. He might be able to do the deep shot game, but we'll see.

I personally think Russ can run a WCO style passing game, but I'm not sure what Denver will do. I don't know that team or what they have planned for Russ. We'll see next year early.

[RiverDog]

Yeah, arguing that a 10 year veteran that has gone to two Super Bowls is going to wilt under pressure simply because he's playing for a different team is pretty laughable. He'll be excited to be with a new team, anxious to produce for them, but that's a lot different emotion than feeling pressured.

However, Russell's going to have to change the way he was doing things here for the past 1.5 years if he's going to be successful. He can't be passing up 8-15 yard open receivers on 3rd down in lieu of trying to find a deep ball target, and he's going to have to use the entire field rather than ignoring the middle. His 3rd down completion percentage really sucked. There were times that I felt that his having Metcalf available was counter productive.

Having said that, he obviously has the ability to be self critical and change his game, get back to what was working for him.

But what none of us know is if this is Pete's design or Russ choosing to play this way which is what some fans seem to think. Yet I've never known a QB other than Peyton who picked the offense they play in. More like the coach finds a QB who can run the offense they want to run. When Russ first came into the league, Pete built the entire offense on Russ's deep ball ability and scrambling ability. It's not like Russ thought this up. It was Pete who embraced it and made it part of the offense. I remember the receivers talking about scrambling drills during practice and immediately falling into scramble drills when they saw Russ running. Pete has always preached, "Run to move the ball, throw to score." He likes the play action deep pass play with a grinding run game. He hired an OC to train Russ this way for years. Pete has stated quite a few times that putting the ball in the air leads to higher turnovers. He hates turnovers. So he prefers that lower volume passing game. He's not a WCO short passing game guy.

I know he's made comments about Russ taking the check down. But when you've already trained a guy to play a certain way for years and he's been producing at a high level, does Pete really encourage the check down or is he just saying it sometimes as a random comment like when they talk about using the TE more and never do.

I guess we'll see what kind of offense they run in Denver and if that OC truly commits to building an offense around more use of short passing. I really want to see what Russ does when not with Pete. I want to see what Pete does when not with Russ. I think Pete likes the play action deep pass game built off the run. He'll run that type of offense if he has the QB to do it. He'll encourage that type of offense. Just as giving up explosive plays on defense reduces win percentage, making explosive plays on offense increases win percentage. Those are the metrics Pete follows on both sides of the ball. I doubt we'll see a short passing game in Seattle with Carroll unless he has absolutely no choice because his QB sucks like Geno who can only safely throw high percentage short passes. If Geno starts trying to throw deep, he'll rack up the ints and Pete will freak out. Not sure about Lock. He might be able to do the deep shot game, but we'll see.

I personally think Russ can run a WCO style passing game, but I'm not sure what Denver will do. I don't know that team or what they have planned for Russ. We'll see next year early.

I've never asserted that Russell picked the type of offense he wanted to play in. What I'm saying is that he seems to have gotten away from his progressions, that he tends not to throw over the middle, that he seems to be focused too much on the lower percentage, longer range passes. IMO it explains why his 3rd down completion percentage was so bad. No team is going to be successful if their QB completes just 50% of his passes on 3rd /4th downs. He has to improve on that mark if his team is going to be a contender.

[Aseahawkfan]

I've never asserted that Russell picked the type of offense he wanted to play in. What I'm saying is that he seems to have gotten away from his progressions, that he tends not to throw over the middle, that he seems to be focused too much on the lower percentage, longer range passes. IMO it explains why his 3rd down completion percentage was so bad. No team is going to be successful if their QB completes just 50% of his passes on 3rd /4th downs. He has to improve on that mark if his team is going to be a contender.

It would be interesting to be inside the room to see what happened. Was it the new offense? Was it defenses learning how to take the middle away? Was it a failure of the O-line? Was it the finger? Hard to know.

I've seen every QB, even the greats have down years. So we'll see if this was a down year or if hawktawk is right and it's a permanent loss of ability.

Heck, even Peyton and Brady had down years. Brady lost a whole year due to injury. Rodgers also lost a half a year or so due to injury. Injury years are tough. So are learning new offenses.

[NorthHawk]

Russ has an advantage in that he’s got a hand in developing their new Offense.
It’s not like he’s going to a team with an established Offense that he has to try to fit into.
What they do will in a large part be what he likes to do and is good at.

[RiverDog]

I've never asserted that Russell picked the type of offense he wanted to play in. What I'm saying is that he seems to have gotten away from his progressions, that he tends not to throw over the middle, that he seems to be focused too much on the lower percentage, longer range passes. IMO it explains why his 3rd down completion percentage was so bad. No team is going to be successful if their QB completes just 50% of his passes on 3rd /4th downs. He has to improve on that mark if his team is going to be a contender.

It would be interesting to be inside the room to see what happened. Was it the new offense? Was it defenses learning how to take the middle away? Was it a failure of the O-line? Was it the finger? Hard to know.

I've seen every QB, even the greats have down years. So we'll see if this was a down year or if hawktawk is right and it's a permanent loss of ability.

Heck, even Peyton and Brady had down years. Brady lost a whole year due to injury. Rodgers also lost a half a year or so due to injury. Injury years are tough. So are learning new offenses.

It wasn't his finger. Russell's 3rd down completion percentage actually rose after he returned from his injury. At one point, it was in the high 30's. He finished the season at 51%.

I agree with you that the last part of 2020 and 2021 could just be an anomaly. You're right lots of greats have down seasons. But then again, it could be that he's peaked. He's lost a step, is no longer as elusive as he used to be, and is going to have to make some adjustments if he's going to achieve his goal of getting back to the SB. I'm not in the HT camp that thinks he's all washed up, but neither do I think that he's currently a top 5 QB. He has some work to do.

[Aseahawkfan]

It wasn't his finger. Russell's 3rd down completion percentage actually rose after he returned from his injury. At one point, it was in the high 30's. He finished the season at 51%.

I agree with you that the last part of 2020 and 2021 could just be an anomaly. You're right lots of greats have down seasons. But then again, it could be that he's peaked. He's lost a step, is no longer as elusive as he used to be, and is going to have to make some adjustments if he's going to achieve his goal of getting back to the SB. I'm not in the HT camp that thinks he's all washed up, but neither do I think that he's currently a top 5 QB. He has some work to do.

Who would you consider better than Russ right now?

Let me see:

Mahomes
Tom Brady
Aaron Rodgers


Maybe you could elevate a few of the young guys if you think they'll keep it up.

Who you taking over Russ in a big game all things being equal as far as team quality?

I could see Joe Burow and Justin Herbert knocking Russ down some spots in time, not sure I would give them that this early.

But even a Russ missing 3 and a half games put up 27 TDs to 6 ints. I think if you put Russ on the Rams, he's an immediate upgrade even over someone like Stafford.

If you see a ton of better QBS in the league than Russ you would take over him. I guess that's how you see it. I don't see it myself. I think he's still top 5 when healthy with some younger players nipping at his heels.

[obiken]

I agree ASHF, people are going to see!

[obiken]

ASHF, I dont know how you, River, or Cbob feel, but IF the 9ers release Jimmy G, we should run to sign him. No he is not the future, but he is game enough to stop the the bleeding, and he would not cost that much in Salary.

[RiverDog]

Who would you consider better than Russ right now?

Let me see:

Mahomes
Tom Brady
Aaron Rodgers


Maybe you could elevate a few of the young guys if you think they'll keep it up.

Who you taking over Russ in a big game all things being equal as far as team quality?

I could see Joe Burow and Justin Herbert knocking Russ down some spots in time, not sure I would give them that this early.

But even a Russ missing 3 and a half games put up 27 TDs to 6 ints. I think if you put Russ on the Rams, he's an immediate upgrade even over someone like Stafford.

If you see a ton of better QBS in the league than Russ you would take over him. I guess that's how you see it. I don't see it myself. I think he's still top 5 when healthy with some younger players nipping at his heels.

What I said was a top 5 QB, not necessarily who'd I'd take in a big game. Russell's stat line wasn't that good. He's ranked 20th in completion percentage, 18th in ypg passing, and his W/L as a starter was 6-8. He was playing poorly even before his injury in 2021, actually played better after his return. Despite his hot start in 2020, he wasn't ranked top 5 in any statistical category, including metrics like completion percentage that aren't dependent on a pass happy offense, and the season ended in a dud with an embarrassing wild card playoff loss.

But to answer your question, I'd take the 3 you mentioned and Worthlessburger, who just retired. Even in a single big game, I'd take Burrow and Josh Allen in a heartbeat. Stafford got his team a Lombardi. Lamar Jackson looks like a flash in the pan, another Cam Newton, so I wouldn't put him ahead of Russell, but he does have something that Russell doesn't, an MVP.

I just don't consider Russell a current top 5 QB. I can't ignore the downturn of the past 1.5 seasons and his failure to get his team past the divisional round in the playoffs. Top 10 yes and I think he can do well in Denver, but he has some work to do. He needs to fix some things in his game.

[NorthHawk]

ASHF, I dont know how you, River, or Cbob feel, but IF the 9ers release Jimmy G, we should run to sign him. No he is not the future, but he is game enough to stop the the bleeding, and he would not cost that much in Salary.

He might not be a bad fit in a Peteball Offense. His biggest problem is coughing up the ball at the worst time.
But he's said to be a great teammate and he would be an immediate upgrade to the current QB class. It makes me wonder if he's one of those QBs that end up being the bridge between
better QBs his whole career where he will never be elite, but good enough to start on teams while they look for a true Franchise QB.

[RiverDog]

ASHF, I dont know how you, River, or Cbob feel, but IF the 9ers release Jimmy G, we should run to sign him. No he is not the future, but he is game enough to stop the the bleeding, and he would not cost that much in Salary.

He might not be a bad fit in a Peteball Offense. His biggest problem is coughing up the ball at the worst time.
But he's said to be a great teammate and he would be an immediate upgrade to the current QB class. It makes me wonder if he's one of those QBs that end up being the bridge between better QBs his whole career where he will never be elite, but good enough to start on teams while they look for a true Franchise QB.

I don't want to waste the time and resources on a player that is not in our future. There's only X number of snaps we have to find our QBOTF. We already have our 'bridge' candidates.

If we were going to take a shot on a veteran QB, I'd rather do it with Mayfield, although he doesn't excite me, either. As North Hawk points out, Jimmy G does not play well under pressure, and he's 30 years old. It's why the Niners are having a hard time moving him.

[NorthHawk]

He also has a huge salary, so if he's cut that salary issue goes away.
There might be other teams also interested in him and unlike Mayfield he doesn't have any baggage so he would probably cost more.
Keep him and Lock, cut Smith and move forward with plans to draft a Franchise type QB.

[tarlhawk]

He also has a huge salary, so if he's cut that salary issue goes away.
There might be other teams also interested in him and unlike Mayfield he doesn't have any baggage so he would probably cost more.
Keep him and Lock, cut Smith and move forward with plans to draft a Franchise type QB.

He might not be willing to have a backup role and I think our team wants to see if Drew can be "rescued" as damaged goods before our 2023 draft.

[RiverDog]

Here's an interesting article about the possibility of Jimmy G. becoming a Seahawk:

The Niners have been unable to find a trade partner for Garoppolo, and the quarterback’s offseason shoulder surgery is likely limiting his market. Garoppolo has one season remaining on his five-year, $137 million contract and is slated to have a $24.2 million salary in 2022. NFL teams are not eager to pay this kind of money for a quarterback who has struggled to stay healthy throughout his career.

Graziano reported on June 10 that the expectation around the NFL is for the 49ers to ultimately release Garoppolo. Whether it is Garoppolo or another quarterback, Riddick believes the Seahawks are “setting the table” for a new QB1 to succeed and does not view Drew Lock or Geno Smith as the long-term solution.

“Jimmy G is like the piece that they’re missing,” Riddick added. “Seattle’s setting the table for some quarterback in the next year or two, if it’s not Drew Lock or Geno Smith, which it ain’t gonna be. If it’s not one of those two, someone’s going to inherit a football team that is quietly set themselves up. Jimmy G would be perfect, to me, for that, and if he ever becomes free because, again, they ain’t gonna trade him to them. I’d be all over that like that, quickly.”

https://heavy.com/sports/seattle-seahaw ... ors-49ers/

[c_hawkbob]

Here's an interesting article about the possibility of Jimmy G. becoming a Seahawk:

The Niners have been unable to find a trade partner for Garoppolo, and the quarterback’s offseason shoulder surgery is likely limiting his market. Garoppolo has one season remaining on his five-year, $137 million contract and is slated to have a $24.2 million salary in 2022. NFL teams are not eager to pay this kind of money for a quarterback who has struggled to stay healthy throughout his career.

Graziano reported on June 10 that the expectation around the NFL is for the 49ers to ultimately release Garoppolo. Whether it is Garoppolo or another quarterback, Riddick believes the Seahawks are “setting the table” for a new QB1 to succeed and does not view Drew Lock or Geno Smith as the long-term solution.

“Jimmy G is like the piece that they’re missing,” Riddick added. “Seattle’s setting the table for some quarterback in the next year or two, if it’s not Drew Lock or Geno Smith, which it ain’t gonna be. If it’s not one of those two, someone’s going to inherit a football team that is quietly set themselves up. Jimmy G would be perfect, to me, for that, and if he ever becomes free because, again, they ain’t gonna trade him to them. I’d be all over that like that, quickly.”

https://heavy.com/sports/seattle-seahaw ... ors-49ers/

IMO Jimmy G and Baker M are in exactly the same position. Neither's team wants to give them up for nothing but they are not going to want to pay them either. We are equally as liable to sign either when they are released. I really don't have much of a preference one over the other, both are better than what we have now.

[Old but Slow]

Jimmy G at QB leading the Seahawks to the Superb Owl? Jimmy G? I am sorry, but I'm not feeling this. He seems to be that player who shows a ton of promise, but never gets over the hump. I kind of took the hype when he was Brady's backup and then went to the Niners, but it just seems like a lot of "yes, yes, yes, doink".

We can do better. Be patient. Play the hand we are dealt, and keep looking.

[NorthHawk]

I don’t think Pete is patient enough to not try to sign one of them if they are cut.
He might even try to make a deal with Cleveland (SF probably wouldn’t trade to Seattle),
and give up more than necessary if the QB play is real bad.

[RiverDog]

IMO Jimmy G and Baker M are in exactly the same position. Neither's team wants to give them up for nothing but they are not going to want to pay them either. We are equally as liable to sign either when they are released. I really don't have much of a preference one over the other, both are better than what we have now.

I'm pretty indifferent to either one. Given our rebuilding status, I don't think it makes a big difference. My biggest fear would be that if any one of them, and I include Lock in that mix as well, plays just well enough to make us think he's our man, we sign him to a big contract, then they end up being a dud. At least with a rookie, we have a few years to make a decision.

[Hawktawk]

I've never asserted that Russell picked the type of offense he wanted to play in. What I'm saying is that he seems to have gotten away from his progressions, that he tends not to throw over the middle, that he seems to be focused too much on the lower percentage, longer range passes. IMO it explains why his 3rd down completion percentage was so bad. No team is going to be successful if their QB completes just 50% of his passes on 3rd /4th downs. He has to improve on that mark if his team is going to be a contender.

It would be interesting to be inside the room to see what happened. Was it the new offense? Was it defenses learning how to take the middle away? Was it a failure of the O-line? Was it the finger? Hard to know.

I've seen every QB, even the greats have down years. So we'll see if this was a down year or if hawktawk is right and it's a permanent loss of ability.

Heck, even Peyton and Brady had down years. Brady lost a whole year due to injury. Rodgers also lost a half a year or so due to injury. Injury years are tough. So are learning new offenses.[/quote]

Starting with the wild card game vs the Rams Russ is 6-9. We have discussed the third down thing last year and really the last 2 years . The finger obviously was an issue and he knew better but he’s not the first star to play when they shouldn’t . He earned the right to try . I think he’s on the decline . Still very good , very dangerous but not as confident and clutch . I think he will have a ton of weight coming into Seattle . He must win . He can’t lose after what he said and did .

[Aseahawkfan]

ASHF, I dont know how you, River, or Cbob feel, but IF the 9ers release Jimmy G, we should run to sign him. No he is not the future, but he is game enough to stop the the bleeding, and he would not cost that much in Salary.

I don't think Jimmy G is the future or anything, but an upgrade over what guys we have unless Locke is a reborn QB. He could be a solid guy for a few years with the excellent WRs we have. He at least was trained in the Bill B system and likely a total team guy.

I'd prefer Baker myself. He seems like the kind of QB with the highest chance of a 2nd career revival because he was trained in a place where NFL player careers go to die in Cleveland. That team is terrible. I don't feel Cleveland gets the most out of their players. Mayfield showed some real promise before he was hit by the Cleveland Curse. If anyone can revive the career of a QB that showed some real ability, Carroll can. I feel our best shot at a franchise QB giving a guy a 2nd chance is Baker. Maybe Pete and John are playing chicken with Cleveland. This year they can afford to do so as the rebuild the pieces around the QB. Cleveland really can't afford to keep Baker around and will have to get rid of him either this year or next. Even if we pick him up next year, we'll be a year in the rebuild with hopefully quality rooks getting experience at tackle and improving.

[Hawktawk]

As we are in a thread about Russell, the recent comments have brought to mind the great players we have been blessed by having. Russell is the best QB the Seahawks have ever had, but he has to get in line behind some others. Walter Jones, Cortez Kennedy and Steve Largent would rank ahead of Wilson, as might Marshawn Lynch, Bobby Wagner, Shawn Alexander, Kam Chancellor, and maybe a few others.

Wilson might be considered in the running for most valuable, though, because of the position he plays. Replacing him will be a challenge. The next couple of drafts may give us one, but likely not. It is such a crap shoot. Witness the number of high QB picks that have failed, as well as those that are simply mediocre (strange to call some of the best athletes on the planet mediocre).

So far I am good with the trade. We got some value, and we are not faced with having to pay Russ, so we have more to spend on getting this team back together. With a new team, as that is what it feels like, I will content myself with watching the young players develop and hope that I can see another one reach the pantheon. Winning will come in time.

I know I’m this hater but I think you have Russ a little low on your list of greatest players here. Of course greatest QB but he truly did some amazing things physically and with his arm talent for 10 years , set team and NFL records . I don’t have too many guys ahead of him . Walt and Largent . That’s all .

[RiverDog]

As we are in a thread about Russell, the recent comments have brought to mind the great players we have been blessed by having. Russell is the best QB the Seahawks have ever had, but he has to get in line behind some others. Walter Jones, Cortez Kennedy and Steve Largent would rank ahead of Wilson, as might Marshawn Lynch, Bobby Wagner, Shawn Alexander, Kam Chancellor, and maybe a few others.

Wilson might be considered in the running for most valuable, though, because of the position he plays. Replacing him will be a challenge. The next couple of drafts may give us one, but likely not. It is such a crap shoot. Witness the number of high QB picks that have failed, as well as those that are simply mediocre (strange to call some of the best athletes on the planet mediocre).

So far I am good with the trade. We got some value, and we are not faced with having to pay Russ, so we have more to spend on getting this team back together. With a new team, as that is what it feels like, I will content myself with watching the young players develop and hope that I can see another one reach the pantheon. Winning will come in time.

How can you mention Kam without mentioning Earl?

I'd leave out Alexander. He's in no one's conversation for the HOF. Same with Kam, but to a lesser degree. But I'd add Earl and Easley, the former is a cinch, the latter is already in.

[Old but Slow]

How could I forget Easley? He is definitely near the top of the list. Those wide shoulder pads and long arms...he looked like a lion prowling back there.

[Hawktawk]

[list=][/list][

I've never asserted that Russell picked the type of offense he wanted to play in. What I'm saying is that he seems to have gotten away from his progressions, that he tends not to throw over the middle, that he seems to be focused too much on the lower percentage, longer range passes. IMO it explains why his 3rd down completion percentage was so bad. No team is going to be successful if their QB completes just 50% of his passes on 3rd /4th downs. He has to improve on that mark if his team is going to be a contender.


It wasn't his finger. Russell's 3rd down completion percentage actually rose after he returned from his injury. At one point, it was in the high 30's. He finished the season at 51%.

I agree with you that the last part of 2020 and 2021 could just be an anomaly. You're right lots of greats have down seasons. But then again, it could be that he's peaked. He's lost a step, is no longer as elusive as he used to be, and is going to have to make some adjustments if he's going to achieve his goal of getting back to the SB. I'm not in the HT camp that thinks he's all washed up, but neither do I think that he's currently a top 5 QB. He has some work to do.

I wouldn’t say Russ is “washed up” at this point . He’s still got a top 5 arm although I don’t know if his grip is quite the same based on a few balls even in games he played very well overall such as Bears , AZ and even Detroit . What I’ve seen is a deteriorating ability to correctly read the field pre snap as evidenced in the Titans loss and even in the season ender. Not sure if there’s a stat for coming off your first read but he’s surely got to be among league leaders . It doesn’t matter the offense if the guy isn’t going to jam it in an NFL open window instead of running backwards looking for a scramble play and getting run down . The wheels aren’t bad but they aren’t as good and now he’s another year older which makes deciding to bail an even lower percentage option . Russ is very good . He can win lots of games with the right team . But I’m not sure he can win them by himself anymore . Can’t remember his last 2 minute drive . If Hackett can turn him back into a guy that throws in the middle , is decisive and as deadly in the pocket as out and confident again we might be in trouble . But I don’t think a10 year vet is going to change his game at this point which means 2022 Russ is beatable .