Russell Wilson trade results thus far

[Hawktawk]

Ok sorry . I do the majority of my postings from a 5 year old I phone with a severely cracked screen as I’m off the grid with no computer at Legacy . Times are tough you know ? That was completely unintentional so my sincere apologies . I didn’t even notice I had done it . I better give up on the emojis because they pop up all over the place . As for CHawk Bob you’re admirable as a fan , probably better then I, certainly more thankful at the players contributions over their career . I’m ruthless , just how I am . Scream , throw stuff . Cheer and swear at the same time . I can’t change at 63.

[NorthHawk]

With mobile, spellcheck can be a motor.

[Hawktawk]

With mobile, spellcheck can be a motor.

Yes irritating to me . I won spelling bees growing up. I write novels , music . I can Fing spell!

[Aseahawkfan]

If you have something to say Asea say it to me . Russell’s game went down the toilet in mid season 2020. His first half was torrid with the overwhelming majority of his Touchdowns. It was a lot like what we see now , lots of long bombs and deep outs and scramble drills . I personally advocated that he should be considered as a MVP candidate because that was then and this is now . But he got roughed up bad in Buffalo , some suspect he hid a concussion . Then came the first AZ game . 3 careless interceptions but one led to one of the greatest hustle plays in NFL history by DK , one of 2 Seahawks on the roster who can outrun Buhdda baker . But from that point on Russ threw 11 picks including a pick 6 in the playoff loss where he completed 11-29 , his worst ever playoff loss statistically . see Asea that was his whoop de do 40 TD season ending like that .,that’s not a good season . And 40 TDs is something that quite a few guys have done too .
And jaw on me all you want . I’ve been a fan since you were a twinkle in daddy’s eyes . I give credit when due , maybe too much . I rip bad play . I detest guys like Hutch that took the money and ran , that’s all
Over the league . Not just Seattle . Russ played bad at the end , wasn’t a team player , quit on the team including his hand BS which was 100 percent a narcissist selfish guy who wanted to be the big story and it screwed us all . I said it at the time . I hope he’s really ready , pulling for him . When I saw the results it was the end for me. But you go fan boy . Cheer a guy whose gone , build him up , defend his actions . You think I’m bad I have a Seahawks fan who works for me who has despised Russ since the pick in 49.
Don’t tell me how to feel .

I did say it to you, multiple times. I'm not buying what you're selling.

If you want my more direct opinion, I think your analysis is based on a small sample size completely ignoring the entirety of both Penny and Geno's careers.

I don't know how you expect a team to trade a franchise QB and a veteran defensive leader without consequences to the win-loss record. I think Seattle fans as a whole are going to learn real quick what they forgot having had an elite franchise QB for 10 years. There is a very real and very dramatic underestimation of Russell's contributions to our win-loss record since the fall of the elite legendary defense.

I think the section of the fan base that wants to think that we have better players than we do are going to get a HUGE reality check very, very soon. This team has been falling apart for quite a few years. We aren't that good. The only thing preventing us from falling off a cliff was an elite franchise QB who kept the team competitive as the defense and run game became mediocre to bad. But that franchise QB couldn't do what a segment of the fan base obviously considers easy and take us to another Super Bowl without a sufficiently good team around him. Now some are retroactively making it seem like Russell's performance was holding back the team and not the lack of quality players at many other key positions like CB, DE, DT, and O-line as well as a RB that failed to show up big during the playoffs.

That's fine. The QB gets the accolades and the blame when the team doesn't finish, especially if he's the last guy with the ball in hands when the game clock hits zero and we lose.

But Seattle fans are soon going to find out that guy that was winning enough games to get us to the playoffs yearly when gone is not easy to replace. These backups like Geno Smith who won 1 game and lost 2 even putting up these stats you keep citing and Drew Lock who couldn't even make Denver competitive aren't going to do better with a team that still lacks productive starters at key positions like CB, DE, DT, and with RBs who have not proven to be durable, productive starters with any consistency.

I've already made it clear to you. This is the offseason so you and tarlhawk and a handful of others get to keep pretending it was all Russell's fault for about 5 more months, then we to see reality and you'll have to find new excuses for why the team isn't doing well and make new excuses for Pete and John until some of these draft picks show they can step up to the NFL level of which only about 4 will likely prove that if this draft is any good. 4 won't be enough to turn around the team because we have far more than four holes on the team. And that will be if those four who are likely to make it from the draft start off playing amazing out of the gate, which is exceedingly rare even for high quality draft picks.

That's fine. It's the offseason. We don't much else to talk about until we get some OTAs and get to training camp.

Pete and the local media will blow smoke at us about how great these guys are doing. Then the real games will hit with scheming and real NFL proven superstars playing against us, then reality will set in as the losses build up and we have to hope some of these rookies at least show promise of improvement year over year as our tackles learn that playing against Nick Bosa and Aaron Donald four times a year is about as fun as it sounds.

I think we're in for a real garbage season. You ignoring Geno lost 2 of the 3 games he was in and Rashaad Penny's run success is not going to maintain at the same pace.

You also seem to forget of those six games Penny ran wild and we won coincided with Russ also having good games. The one game where Russ really had a bad game against the Rams, Penny also had a bad game.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilsRu00/gamelog/2021/

Russ's stats those last six games blow Geno Smith's numbers out of the water. He threw for 4 TDs and 0 interceptions in one game against Detroit. I guess you forgot that game in your "Russ is done" narrative.

Over that six game run with Penny running wild Russ had the following stats:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilsRu00/gamelog/2021/

Look at Russ's game logs those last six games as his health returned and the offense started to work again.

Russ threw for 13 TDS and 3 ints. QB rating over a hundred in all but two games. 99 against Frisco and 55 against the Rams where Penny also got crushed. He also ran for 60 yards and 1 TD.

And you're spending your time telling me about Geno Smith and Drew Lock? And Russ has lost it?

I can barely stand to hear it. It sickens me to see Seattle fans pretend Russ is the problem. Even during a down year with injuries, this guy was still putting up real elite numbers and going 4 and 2 in his last six games.

And you're building up Geno Smith's 1 and 2 win loss record as some kind of Russ comparison? It's fricking ridiculous.

Wake up call is coming for the Anti-Russ Seattle fan base where they find the 70 year old coach who decided to jettison his franchise QB is the real problem.

[Aseahawkfan]

Here' a down, Russ is all done year:

33 SEA QB 3 14 14 6-8-0 259 400 64.8 3113 25 6.3 6 1.5 135 69 7.8 8.4 12.0 222.4 103.1 54.7

Gee, that looks like a better year than Geno or Lock ever had in their careers. Looks like a great year for Matt Hass or Dave Krieg.

25 TDs, 6 ints, 3000 yards. 103 QB rating.

Gee, what a terrible year for Russ during an injury year.

Oh wait, he ran for 183 yards and 2 TDs.

27 TDs and 6 ints. What a terrible year.

You want to know what kind of done that looks like to me? Looks like the kind of done the Mariners decided when they thought Randy Johnson would never be as good as he was after his back injury.

Because as far as I can tell, Russ is looking like a top 10 QB even in a year when we miss the playoffs and he gets injured missing more games than he ever has.

[tarlhawk]

This is the offseason so you and tarlhawk and a handful of others get to keep pretending it was all Russell's fault for about 5 more months, then we to see reality and you'll have to find new excuses for why the team isn't doing well and make new excuses for Pete and John until some of these draft picks show they can step up to the NFL level of which only about 4 will likely prove that if this draft is any good. That's fine. It's the offseason. We don't much else to talk about until we get some OTAs and get to training camp.

You also seem to forget of those six games Penny ran wild and we won coincided with Russ also having good games. The one game where Russ really had a bad game against the Rams, Penny also had a bad game.

And you're spending your time telling me about Geno Smith and Drew Lock? And Russ has lost it?

Wake up call is coming for the Anti-Russ Seattle fan base where they find the 70 year old coach who decided to jettison his franchise QB is the real problem.

Supporting management doesn't mean a person falls into an anti-Russ stereotype. I have not sounded off against Russell. I have appreciated the excitement he gave fans and even issued/posted hope for 2022 based on his injury recovery toward the end of 2021. Penny and RW as a balanced offense brought out the best of each other's skill set and I was looking forward to the two of them getting Seattle off to a fast 2022 start...as both seemed to be thriving from restored confidence...and with both of them in rhythm the O-Line came alive as if sparked.

Liking Russell doesn't bring him back...so when I talk up Drew Lock or Geno Smith...it's because both of them are here and our schedule for 2022 is tough enough to damper playoff aspirations...but our team is not "standing still" and has begun the type of improvements that builds momentum going forward...and yes off-season is an excellent time to express hope and to even find "reasons" for that hope.
An NFL player's confidence can have surprising results especially in play makers like QB / RB /WR. Having hope doesn't mean reality is ignored... it can become the driving inspiration to overcome...which is why many love the capabilities of an "underdog" to overachieve rather than give up. Go Hawks

[Hawktawk]

This is the offseason so you and tarlhawk and a handful of others get to keep pretending it was all Russell's fault for about 5 more months, then we to see reality and you'll have to find new excuses for why the team isn't doing well and make new excuses for Pete and John until some of these draft picks show they can step up to the NFL level of which only about 4 will likely prove that if this draft is any good. That's fine. It's the offseason. We don't much else to talk about until we get some OTAs and get to training camp.

You also seem to forget of those six games Penny ran wild and we won coincided with Russ also having good games. The one game where Russ really had a bad game against the Rams, Penny also had a bad game.

And you're spending your time telling me about Geno Smith and Drew Lock? And Russ has lost it?

Wake up call is coming for the Anti-Russ Seattle fan base where they find the 70 year old coach who decided to jettison his franchise QB is the real problem.

Supporting management doesn't mean a person falls into an anti-Russ stereotype. I have not sounded off against Russell. I have appreciated the excitement he gave fans and even issued/posted hope for 2022 based on his injury recovery toward the end of 2021. Penny and RW as a balanced offense brought out the best of each other's skill set and I was looking forward to the two of them getting Seattle off to a fast 2022 start...as both seemed to be thriving from restored confidence...and with both of them in rhythm the O-Line came alive as if sparked.

Liking Russell doesn't bring him back...so when I talk up Drew Lock or Geno Smith...it's because both of them are here and our schedule for 2022 is tough enough to damper playoff aspirations...but our team is not "standing still" and has begun the type of improvements that builds momentum going forward...and yes off-season is an excellent time to express hope and to even find "reasons" for that hope.
An NFL player's confidence can have surprising results especially in play makers like QB / RB /WR. Having hope doesn't mean reality is ignored... it can become the driving inspiration to overcome...which is why many love the capabilities of an "underdog" to overachieve rather than give up. Go Hawks

Truly love your reasoned input tarihawk .

Asea you can quote Russell’s 2021 season stats all you want . Lost to 3 backups including a guy in nick Foles who you call garbage who completely outplayed Russ despite getting the crap knocked of him all night . Russ had a 110 rating with 2 TDs and no picks yet was 100% the reason for the loss with several critical mistakes and a 4 and out needing only a field goal . Russ was the best quarterback in our history . One of the best true dual threats in history and a guy who set a trend and made lots of short quarterbacks wealthy who can’t carry Russels balls in a wheelbarrow . A sure fire hall of fame player . But it’s ok to say that and still say he’s slipping , he isn’t team oriented anymore . He was extremely disingenuous with the 12s. It doesn’t diminish his greatness a bit in my eyes.it’s just reality . We will know soon enough .

[Hawktawk]

KJ said in an interview that he expects the donkeys to finish 4 th in the division next year despite the addition of Russell . Interesting for a guy who played 9 years with Russ and also faced the broncos twice as a member of the raiders . Doesn’t mean it will happen but it’s a truly educated opinion

[NorthHawk]

They could end up first or fourth or any place in between because that division is so competitive.
The Raiders might be on an upswing but it's hard to tell with all of the turmoil they had last year and the Chargers look like they've really improved on Defense.
It's going to be fun watching that division, though.

[Hawktawk]

They could end up first or fourth or any place in between because that division is so competitive.
The Raiders might be on an upswing but it's hard to tell with all of the turmoil they had last year and the Chargers look like they've really improved on Defense.
It's going to be fun watching that division, though.

Vegas has chiefs 1 and chargers and donkeys tied for second with faders last . I agree with KJ or should I say he may be correct . Just bringing in a QB and a new HC they will have a learning curve . Hopefully we teach them a lesson in the opener . Heard Russ talk about the game in Seattle . Total Russ speak but he sounds tight . I didn’t expect the game so soon but I bet Denver didn’t either . We’re 3.5 point dogs at home . Should not be too hard to get jacked for the game if your a Seahawk .

[obiken]

They could end up first or fourth or any place in between because that division is so competitive.
The Raiders might be on an upswing but it's hard to tell with all of the turmoil they had last year and the Chargers look like they've really improved on Defense.
It's going to be fun watching that division, though.

Yeah the over under on the Broncos is 10 games, take the over. The over under on the Seattle Seahawks is six games, take the under!.

[Stream Hawk]

Have you ever thought the Hawks were a good team, Obi? Just wondering;) I mean, what did you think going into 2013 or 2005 seasons?

Re thread topic. I think Seattle got a haul and drafted well. On paper. It stings though not having a franchise QB anymore. Hope the better overall team can make up for that, and we in fact draft one next year!

[Aseahawkfan]

Asea you can quote Russell’s 2021 season stats all you want . Lost to 3 backups including a guy in nick Foles who you call garbage who completely outplayed Russ despite getting the crap knocked of him all night . Russ had a 110 rating with 2 TDs and no picks yet was 100% the reason for the loss with several critical mistakes and a 4 and out needing only a field goal . Russ was the best quarterback in our history . One of the best true dual threats in history and a guy who set a trend and made lots of short quarterbacks wealthy who can’t carry Russels balls in a wheelbarrow . A sure fire hall of fame player . But it’s ok to say that and still say he’s slipping , he isn’t team oriented anymore . He was extremely disingenuous with the 12s. It doesn’t diminish his greatness a bit in my eyes.it’s just reality . We will know soon enough .

Geno Smith went 1 and 2.

Russ's stats are still far from done and very much a starting franchise QB. He went 4-2 at the end of the season. I don't think it was any accident that Penny ran for the yards he did when Russ was playing QB and the opponent had to defend the pass unlike when Geno was playing.

Russ was no more disingenuous than Carroll or Schneider and you have a thousand excuses for them.

[Aseahawkfan]

Supporting management doesn't mean a person falls into an anti-Russ stereotype. I have not sounded off against Russell. I have appreciated the excitement he gave fans and even issued/posted hope for 2022 based on his injury recovery toward the end of 2021. Penny and RW as a balanced offense brought out the best of each other's skill set and I was looking forward to the two of them getting Seattle off to a fast 2022 start...as both seemed to be thriving from restored confidence...and with both of them in rhythm the O-Line came alive as if sparked.

Liking Russell doesn't bring him back...so when I talk up Drew Lock or Geno Smith...it's because both of them are here and our schedule for 2022 is tough enough to damper playoff aspirations...but our team is not "standing still" and has begun the type of improvements that builds momentum going forward...and yes off-season is an excellent time to express hope and to even find "reasons" for that hope.
An NFL player's confidence can have surprising results especially in play makers like QB / RB /WR. Having hope doesn't mean reality is ignored... it can become the driving inspiration to overcome...which is why many love the capabilities of an "underdog" to overachieve rather than give up. Go Hawks

You aren't anti-Russ as far as I can tell. But don't pretend hawktawk hasn't taken every shot he can at Russ including personal insults and the like. He made it personal a while back. He's posting this small sample of size of stats to make it seem like Geno Smith is on par with Russ and when you look at the overall stats Geno isn't even in the same ballpark as Russ who even in a down, injury year was a top 10 QB and top 5 in QB rating. And I gotta listen to some Seattle fans tell me Russ is done? I ain't having it. The guy's performance is pretty far from done.

I don't care if you support management. Doesn't mean I have to. I believe Pete Carroll and John Schneider made an extremely stupid decision trading Russell Wilson because of their mistakes managing the roster over the years. I don't know why Seattle fans are expecting pro bowl players year 1 out of the draft when it hasn't happened before save with one player if we're lucky in the first year. And some Seattle fans are acting like all these draft picks are going to fix all the roster issues, when we'll be lucky if four of these guys work out within 2 years as starters.

I haven't seen a coach build a second Super Bowl era on the same team with a different QB myself unless we're going back to the days of Redskins who were never built to be QB centric. I highly doubt Pete Carroll is going to strike fire twice. This is the decision I'll remember as when he really shot himself in the foot.

At this point I'd rather just see Jodi Allen sell the team like I think she's gonna do and hopefully let a new owner who cares manage it properly including changing the head coach and GM who let the roster fall into such decrepitude that they felt trading the franchise QB was a great idea.

[obiken]

Have you ever thought the Hawks were a good team, Obi? Just wondering;) I mean, what did you think going into 2013 or 2005 seasons?

Re thread topic. I think Seattle got a haul and drafted well. On paper. It stings though not having a franchise QB anymore. Hope the better overall team can make up for that, and we in fact draft one next year!

Ouch, thats a little personal lol! Actually With Holmy I did at first. On 2013 I went into the season with a lot of hope because we had a Franchise QB, who took us a ways the year before, and we just wiped them out in the preseason. However, to be fair to all my haters, it's easy to have faith when we went 11-1 to start! 05, and you can you can ask River, I was not happy after we were 2-2. One could argue however, that the 05 team was more dominant than the 13 team. Back to the present, we are in rebuild, yes we finally had a good draft, and we are with Tex, N. O., and Car, positioned to get a really good QB. I am not the gloomer I was 20 years ago, ask the other guys. However, I don't live and die Hawk football anymore. I am all in on JS, but n the next 5 years max, PC has to go. Remember however, its not about you, me, or Hawktalk, its about the boys in Vegas, and they don't care about fandom, only about MONEY. Hawktalk is out to lunch, period. He's out there on Russ, and this season. Remember there is the optimist, the pessimist, and the Cultist. I will never be a member of a Cult, that's why I couldn't stand Trump.

[RiverDog]

Have you ever thought the Hawks were a good team, Obi? Just wondering;) I mean, what did you think going into 2013 or 2005 seasons?

Re thread topic. I think Seattle got a haul and drafted well. On paper. It stings though not having a franchise QB anymore. Hope the better overall team can make up for that, and we in fact draft one next year!

Ouch, thats a little personal lol! Actually With Holmy I did at first. On 2013 I went into the season with a lot of hope because we had a Franchise QB, who took us a ways the year before, and we just wiped them out in the preseason. However, to be fair to all my haters, it's easy to have faith when we went 11-1 to start! 05, and you can you can ask River, I was not happy after we were 2-2. One could argue however, that the 05 team was more dominant than the 13 team. Back to the present, we are in rebuild, yes we finally had a good draft, and we are with Tex, N. O., and Car, positioned to get a really good QB. I am not the gloomer I was 20 years ago, ask the other guys. However, I don't live and die Hawk football anymore. I am all in on JS, but n the next 5 years max, PC has to go. Remember however, its not about you, me, or Hawktalk, its about the boys in Vegas, and they don't care about fandom, only about MONEY. Hawktalk is out to lunch, period. He's out there on Russ, and this season. Remember there is the optimist, the pessimist, and the Cultist. I will never be a member of a Cult, that's why I couldn't stand Trump.

I gotta stick up for Obi a little bit. I'm a bit of a pessimist myself. It's not necessarily a bad thing to be. The way I look at it, it's a way to lower my expectations so that if the season turns out badly, I'm not all that broke up about it, but if it turns out well, then I'm more elated than I would have been had I been expecting it, sort of like a surprise birthday party.

[Rambo2014]

In my humble opinion watching from the outside I believe

Russell Wilson is so jealous of Tom Brady he cannot see straight

[obiken]

I gotta stick up for Obi a little bit. I'm a bit of a pessimist myself. It's not necessarily a bad thing to be. The way I look at it, it's a way to lower my expectations so that if the season turns out badly, I'm not all that broke up about it, but if it turns out well, then I'm more elated than I would have been had I been expecting it, sort of like a surprise birthday party.

There were a lot of times I flipped out River, that neither You, Cbob, or I were right. Was Igor Olshansky, a better pick at DT than Marcus Tubbs, yeah but he was no ball of fire. Was Bass a better Center than Spencer, yeah but not by much. There were a lot of 2nd round Holmy picks they were better than his fist but they only lasted 5 years anyway. Boulware, Hamlin, and Lofta, just to name a few. I think long term we should have moved off of PC 4 years ago at the latest, but last year was really the first year it just flopped.

[obiken]

I gotta stick up for Obi a little bit. I'm a bit of a pessimist myself. It's not necessarily a bad thing to be. The way I look at it, it's a way to lower my expectations so that if the season turns out badly, I'm not all that broke up about it, but if it turns out well, then I'm more elated than I would have been had I been expecting it, sort of like a surprise birthday party.

Thanks man! I agree!! Remember however, there were a lot of times I flipped out River, that neither You, Cbob, or I were right. Was Igor Olshansky, a better pick at DT than Marcus Tubbs, yeah but he was no ball of fire. Was Bass a better Center than Spencer, yeah but not by much. There were a lot of 2nd round Holmy picks they were better than his fist but they only lasted 5 years anyway. Boulware, Hamlin, and Lofta, just to name a few. I think long term we should have moved off of PC 4 years ago at the latest, but last year was really the first year it just flopped.

[Aseahawkfan]

In my humble opinion watching from the outside I believe

Russell Wilson is so jealous of Tom Brady he cannot see straight

You're just happy Russ is gone and the Rams pretty much have free reign at this point unless they fall off a cliff. No one can stop you now. And our team traded away the only competitive QB in the division besides Stafford as I don't believe in Kyler Murray or Jimmy G.

[Aseahawkfan]

Ouch, thats a little personal lol! Actually With Holmy I did at first. On 2013 I went into the season with a lot of hope because we had a Franchise QB, who took us a ways the year before, and we just wiped them out in the preseason. However, to be fair to all my haters, it's easy to have faith when we went 11-1 to start! 05, and you can you can ask River, I was not happy after we were 2-2. One could argue however, that the 05 team was more dominant than the 13 team. Back to the present, we are in rebuild, yes we finally had a good draft, and we are with Tex, N. O., and Car, positioned to get a really good QB. I am not the gloomer I was 20 years ago, ask the other guys. However, I don't live and die Hawk football anymore. I am all in on JS, but n the next 5 years max, PC has to go. Remember however, its not about you, me, or Hawktalk, its about the boys in Vegas, and they don't care about fandom, only about MONEY. Hawktalk is out to lunch, period. He's out there on Russ, and this season. Remember there is the optimist, the pessimist, and the Cultist. I will never be a member of a Cult, that's why I couldn't stand Trump.

You can argue which team you like more.

But there is no argument which team was more dominant. The 2013 team and for about 4 years there had one of the greatest defenses in NFL history and the best Seahawks QB to ever put on the uniform in Russell Wilson. Shaun Alexander versus Marshawn Lynch. Now you're arguing sports car versus Mack truck. Pick your preference. The 2013 team would have smoked the 2005 team and it wouldn't have been close. The 2013 team took a 55 TD Peyton Manning and a record setting Denver offense and destroyed them in a not even close game. They came within one bad play call of beating Tom Brady and the Patriots going to back to back Super Bowl.

There is no good argument that the 2005 team was even on the same level as the 2013 and 2014 team. Pete Carroll hands down built the greatest Seattle team in history. No one even comes close to it.

You may prefer Mike Holmgren as I think a few on here do. You may like Hass better than Russ. But the 2013 and 2014 Seahawks is miles ahead of the 2005 Seahawks. Shaun Alexander would have been weeping getting hit by Kam Chancellor and Bobby Wagner. The only guys I take over people on the 2013 and 2014 team is Walter Jones and Steve Hutch. If we had a Walter Jones and Steve Hutch on the 2013 and 2014 teams, Marshawn's run and TD total would have been so insane that I can't even imagine it. Lynch was grinding yards and battering defenses with an O-line that only a QB as elusive as Russell Wilson made look good. Now if Lynch had Walter and Hutch creating holes for him to run through...damn, would have been sick because he could batter opposing D-lines much less get clean to the LBs and secondary. Lynch runs over and through secondaries.

Bottom line, there ain't no comparison. 2005 team would have been destroyed by the 2013 and 2014 team. Utterly and absolutely destroyed.

[RiverDog]

Bottom line, there ain't no comparison. 2005 team would have been destroyed by the 2013 and 2014 team. Utterly and absolutely destroyed.

This is true. During that period of time, we set an all time NFL record for the most consecutive games played without losing by more than 8 points, and that speaks to our defense. We should have won multiple Lombardi's.

[obiken]

Bottom line, there ain't no comparison. 2005 team would have been destroyed by the 2013 and 2014 team. Utterly and absolutely destroyed.

No question 13 was way better ASHF! PC or Holmy? tough question but now, right now, Holmy. Can you imagine WJ, SH, and Tobeck to block for RW running a WCOffense wow, that would have been killer. No, no way Holmy could match PC's defense. ASHF, I really think had Kenny Hamlin not gone stupid and gone to Pioneer Square and got his skull cracked, we would have won. We had to get a guy out of retirement to play his position and Willie Parker would NEVER had those big runs up the middle. SA to me was a great back, but no ML. Just between us, my favorite back was Curt Warner, His over the top play at the goal line was unstoppable.

[Stream Hawk]

Bottom line, there ain't no comparison. 2005 team would have been destroyed by the 2013 and 2014 team. Utterly and absolutely destroyed.

No question 13 was way better ASHF! PC or Holmy? tough question but now, right now, Holmy. Can you imagine WJ, SH, and Tobeck to block for RW running a WCOffense wow, that would have been killer. No, no way Holmy could match PC's defense. ASHF, I really think had Kenny Hamlin not gone stupid and gone to Pioneer Square and got his skull cracked, we would have won. We had to get a guy out of retirement to play his position and Willie Parker would NEVER had those big runs up the middle. SA to me was a great back, but no ML. Just between us, my favorite back was Curt Warner, His over the top play at the goal line was unstoppable.

I was just playing, Obi! I realize you are a true fan. I too am a bit of a pessimist. Pete is one frustrating dude, so was Holmgren! Let’s see if this draft that finally seemed to focus on the lines gets it correct.

The 2005 really should have won it all. Yep, the Hamlin incident in ~October sealed their fate. Edit - so did the refs and drunkass Jerramy Stevens;)

But that Oline, Hass, Tubbs, Lofa, Joe J, SA, etc was a stacked team! Too bad we had to face Bus in his home! Yes, the 13’ Hawks would’ve taken them down. Not so sure about the 14’ team, as they seemed to be driving on fumes.

[Aseahawkfan]

Bottom line, there ain't no comparison. 2005 team would have been destroyed by the 2013 and 2014 team. Utterly and absolutely destroyed.

No question 13 was way better ASHF! PC or Holmy? tough question but now, right now, Holmy. Can you imagine WJ, SH, and Tobeck to block for RW running a WCOffense wow, that would have been killer. No, no way Holmy could match PC's defense. ASHF, I really think had Kenny Hamlin not gone stupid and gone to Pioneer Square and got his skull cracked, we would have won. We had to get a guy out of retirement to play his position and Willie Parker would NEVER had those big runs up the middle. SA to me was a great back, but no ML. Just between us, my favorite back was Curt Warner, His over the top play at the goal line was unstoppable.

I think so too. Ken Hamlin was up and coming when he decided to do an episode of "When Keepin' It Real Goes Wrong" Dave Chappelle style. It's too bad. I really liked Kenny. He was a lot like Kam.

I still remember Marquand Manuel riding his bike on the sidelines while Pittsburgh took advantage of the 3rd string safety Etric Pruitt.

No doubt Holmgren could have done wonders with Russell Wilson, the smartest running QB to ever do it in my opinion. Russ knew when to run, when to fall down and save himself from hits, and would have run Holmgren's WCO beautifully whether Shaun or Beast was back there.

Curt Warner was awesome. I do love Beast though. He was a real throwback to that old style of vicious, punishing runners like Csonka and Jim Brown.

Would have loved to have Largent as a receiver in the Super Bowl. Doug and Tate did the job. But having a top flight receiver would have been nice. It's hard to have everything at once.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Etric Pruitt. A name only Seahawks fans would remember. Not retired but a UDFA out of Southern Mississippi. Have to feel bad for that guy. Getting thrown into the Super Bowl as green as he is was just unfair. Why I don’t give the Steelers a whole lot of credit. They had officiating and a glaring whole in our secondary that facilitated the win.

I liked watching Holmgren’s offense but it is hard to beat the Lynch and LOB prime years. Imposing their will on both sides of the ball.

[Hawktawk]

Asea you can quote Russell’s 2021 season stats all you want . Lost to 3 backups including a guy in nick Foles who you call garbage who completely outplayed Russ despite getting the crap knocked of him all night . Russ had a 110 rating with 2 TDs and no picks yet was 100% the reason for the loss with several critical mistakes and a 4 and out needing only a field goal . Russ was the best quarterback in our history . One of the best true dual threats in history and a guy who set a trend and made lots of short quarterbacks wealthy who can’t carry Russels balls in a wheelbarrow . A sure fire hall of fame player . But it’s ok to say that and still say he’s slipping , he isn’t team oriented anymore . He was extremely disingenuous with the 12s. It doesn’t diminish his greatness a bit in my eyes.it’s just reality . We will know soon enough .

Geno Smith went 1 and 2.

Russ's stats are still far from done and very much a starting franchise QB. He went 4-2 at the end of the season. I don't think it was any accident that Penny ran for the yards he did when Russ was playing QB and the opponent had to defend the pass unlike when Geno was playing.

Russ was no more disingenuous than Carroll or Schneider and you have a thousand excuses for them.

Russ was ten times as dishonest .
I’m sick and tired of your attacks on Pete Carrol and your net nanny rants if you don’t like my observations .sick of it .

Let’s talk about one of his over 100 passer ratings games . 2 actually or maybe 3 . The dreadful bears loss. Qbr of 110 . 2 touchdowns no picks . But a dreadful sack , needless one of 3 , holding the ball and running around for a 14 yard loss in the shadow of our goal post . Then needing a field goal to win 4 and out . Missed Lockett by 4 feet on 4 th down wide open .
How about the titans . Best statistical game of the season for Russ . But basically a few first downs and a blown coverage to Swain he did nothing the second half as Titans clawed back . In OT defense gets a stop and gives Russ the ball on the 13 . Careless overthrow of Lockett with DK alone at the sticks . Overthrow Dk. Third down stare at the rusher and run backwards 12 yards basically ending the game . Travis Homer was wide open on the right sidelines waving his arms up and down but 2021 Russ sees the rush and not the field
And how about Vikings and the guy he’s become the black 5’9” version of Kirk Cousins . You see nice individual stats but the one miss is the game winnner . Shut out second half .

And once again if you think a back averaging 6.7 yards per carry over 6 weeks doesn’t help a guy with one of the best play action deep balls ever you are not football savvy as I think you are . Did Tom Brady ever have a back do that ? Did Manning ?


Nobody’s pinning their ears back to rush when a big back is doing that. Nobody’s peeking in the backfield . Everyone is reacting to the ball fake.

You’re delusional if you think Russels performance in those games somehow benefitted Penney . Let’s talk 17 points vs the rams all year . That’s the game that matters . Russ was not clutch . Our only successful 2 minute drive was Genos first start in Pittsburgh .

Yeah he’s slipping . As a scout reported “ film doesn’t match the stats “ “ risk averse with a great deep ball “ craves celebrity “

All check . We will talk after Sept 12 . Until then spare me all the rants .

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Aseahawkfan and Hawktawk. The Rock meets The Hard Place. Neither backing down.

In a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately league (and world for that matter), Wilson has yet to prove he can still take you to the big show. His play has declined; no denying that. I am very skeptical he’ll do more and better in Denver than he did here. Very hard to replace a bonafide franchise QB but I don’t fault the FO for moving on from Wilson and getting a kings ransom for him. The ride was coming to an end and I can live with not getting there empty handed.

As for Penny and the offense next year, a lot to prove. Hoping the running game becomes dominant. And the QB play is above average, but that’s all very much wishing. A lot has to come together and quickly for them to be successful.

[Aseahawkfan]

Aseahawkfan and Hawktawk. The Rock meets The Hard Place. Neither backing down.

In a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately league (and world for that matter), Wilson has yet to prove he can still take you to the big show. His play has declined; no denying that. I am very skeptical he’ll do more and better in Denver than he did here. Very hard to replace a bonafide franchise QB but I don’t fault the FO for moving on from Wilson and getting a kings ransom for him. The ride was coming to an end and I can live with not getting there empty handed.

As for Penny and the offense next year, a lot to prove. Hoping the running game becomes dominant. And the QB play is above average, but that’s all very much wishing. A lot has to come together and quickly for them to be successful.

Has his play declined or the team around him?

Last year Russ threw for 25 TDs, ran for 2, and had a 103 QB rating. That is with missing 3 and a half games.

I'm of the mind that the team has declined, while Russell has remained consistent. He just can't pull off miracles when the team around him isn't capable of even maintaining equity with the opponent.

To me this is an example of Seattle fans having been spoiled by having a franchise QB like Russell for so long, they have forgotten all the years of bad QB play. When Russell has a year like he had and that is literally a great year for Dave Krieg or Matt Hasselbeck and Seattle fans are claiming he has declined or is all done, that means Seattle fans have now set their expectations for QB play so high that they are no longer even realistic.

I guess that's what happens when you have ten years of Russ compared to ten years of Dave Krieg or ten years of Matt Hass. No one would have called Russ's numbers last year, an injury year, declining or bad if they had been put up by Matt H or Dave K. But the expectation by Seattle fans are so high that anything less than an improvement over the previous year is viewed as a decline even though this is extremely common for every NFL QB great or not so great.

[Aseahawkfan]

Russ was ten times as dishonest .
I’m sick and tired of your attacks on Pete Carrol and your net nanny rants if you don’t like my observations .sick of it .

Let’s talk about one of his over 100 passer ratings games . 2 actually or maybe 3 . The dreadful bears loss. Qbr of 110 . 2 touchdowns no picks . But a dreadful sack , needless one of 3 , holding the ball and running around for a 14 yard loss in the shadow of our goal post . Then needing a field goal to win 4 and out . Missed Lockett by 4 feet on 4 th down wide open .
How about the titans . Best statistical game of the season for Russ . But basically a few first downs and a blown coverage to Swain he did nothing the second half as Titans clawed back . In OT defense gets a stop and gives Russ the ball on the 13 . Careless overthrow of Lockett with DK alone at the sticks . Overthrow Dk. Third down stare at the rusher and run backwards 12 yards basically ending the game . Travis Homer was wide open on the right sidelines waving his arms up and down but 2021 Russ sees the rush and not the field
And how about Vikings and the guy he’s become the black 5’9” version of Kirk Cousins . You see nice individual stats but the one miss is the game winnner . Shut out second half .

And once again if you think a back averaging 6.7 yards per carry over 6 weeks doesn’t help a guy with one of the best play action deep balls ever you are not football savvy as I think you are . Did Tom Brady ever have a back do that ? Did Manning ?


Nobody’s pinning their ears back to rush when a big back is doing that. Nobody’s peeking in the backfield . Everyone is reacting to the ball fake.

You’re delusional if you think Russels performance in those games somehow benefitted Penney . Let’s talk 17 points vs the rams all year . That’s the game that matters . Russ was not clutch . Our only successful 2 minute drive was Genos first start in Pittsburgh .

Yeah he’s slipping . As a scout reported “ film doesn’t match the stats “ “ risk averse with a great deep ball “ craves celebrity “

All check . We will talk after Sept 12 . Until then spare me all the rants .

You're the only dishonest person claiming this garbage. You can spare me the rants. You're a cherry picking liar making claims the stats don't back up. You're a straight up trash analyst and a low character human being whose character couldn't hold a candle to Russ's character.

Another personal shot with that "craves celebrity" rubbish analysis that doesn't have any proof whatsoever. You tell me what Russ has been doing the last ten years that makes you feel like he's grandstanding or craves celebrity? What has he been doing? Going around bragging? I guess he "craves celebrity" while he's running children's football camps or showing at medical wards or organizing offseason workouts with his receivers. Yeah, he's just out their craving celebrity.

I'm not sparing you jack squat. I'm going to answer a liar like yourself every time you try to spread your lying, cherry picking, low character attacks on Russ.

[Hawktawk]

Bottom line, there ain't no comparison. 2005 team would have been destroyed by the 2013 and 2014 team. Utterly and absolutely destroyed.

This is true. During that period of time, we set an all time NFL record for the most consecutive games played without losing by more than 8 points, and that speaks to our defense. We should have won multiple Lombardi's.

Yeah we should have won many . A yard from 2

It’s kind of ridiculous to ask the question although that 2005 team was damn good and got screwed out of a super bowl by Leavy and crew .

Part of the greatness of Pete’s team is it shrugged off penalties as it had a lot but it was worth it due to the violent carnage on both sides of the ball . Holmy was not a real upbeat calm guy and it got to him in XL.

[Hawktawk]

Aseahawkfan and Hawktawk. The Rock meets The Hard Place. Neither backing down.

In a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately league (and world for that matter), Wilson has yet to prove he can still take you to the big show. His play has declined; no denying that. I am very skeptical he’ll do more and better in Denver than he did here. Very hard to replace a bonafide franchise QB but I don’t fault the FO for moving on from Wilson and getting a kings ransom for him. The ride was coming to an end and I can live with not getting there empty handed.

As for Penny and the offense next year, a lot to prove. Hoping the running game becomes dominant. And the QB play is above average, but that’s all very much wishing. A lot has to come together and quickly for them to be successful.

If Asea and I sat down face to face over a beer or whatever we would disagree on a lot less than we think . I’m with you Mack . Acnowkedge the greatness and still see the decline and it was time to move on . I don’t see how a 33 year old Russ with a young first time coach in a new town and new locker room with all new players is gonna light it up . If he does I will eat the crow and tip a cap to him . I feel optimistic about next season for lots of reasons but mostly I just do . It’s a gut instinct and I’ve been right about the team and other things based on a hunch before . We shall see

[Aseahawkfan]

If Asea and I sat down face to face over a beer or whatever we would disagree on a lot less than we think . I’m with you Mack . Acnowkedge the greatness and still see the decline and it was time to move on . I don’t see how a 33 year old Russ with a young first time coach in a new town and new locker room with all new players is gonna light it up . If he does I will eat the crow and tip a cap to him . I feel optimistic about next season for lots of reasons but mostly I just do . It’s a gut instinct and I’ve been right about the team and other things based on a hunch before . We shall see

We would be fine if you didn't call Russ names or attack him like you are. I'm genuinely pissed off we traded Russell Wilson. If I had my way, I would have fired Pete and John. I like Russell Wilson and I am never going to be ashamed or feel bad for saying it. I think trading Russell Wilson was a dumb idea. I don't see anything indicating Russell isn't still Russell. All I see is a team around Russ degrading. No consistent run game with Carson getting hurt nearly every year. Defense falling apart to the point we haven't had a double digit pass rusher since Frank Clark in 2018. Secondary a shadow of what it once was. People putting the onus on Russ for not being able to work magic when the same has happened to Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Peyton, Mahomes, and nearly every QB not named Brady far more often than not every year, especially so when the team around them starts to degrade as Seattle has.

Fact is Russ is still putting up Russ numbers. You know who isn't putting up numbers? The rest of the team other than Bobby Engram's tackles from the defense not being able to get off the field and the wide receivers who Russ is throwing to.

I don't get how anyone assesses this team and goes, "Russ was the problem." It's mind boggling.

Hell, I'm mad at Pete and John. I wish Paul Allen were still alive so this would have been handled as he gave Pete his walking papers for suggesting the idiot move he and John decided was best for the team.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm waiting for the hammer to finally drop on the two guys who have messed this up when they can't throw anyone else under the bus: Pete Carroll and John Schneider. But given the state of current team ownership, might be a while but it's coming.

[Old but Slow]

It is what it is. We will live with it. But it is way too early to be making judgements on the trade, who was at fault, and how the cards will fall.

[Hawktawk]

If Asea and I sat down face to face over a beer or whatever we would disagree on a lot less than we think . I’m with you Mack . Acnowkedge the greatness and still see the decline and it was time to move on . I don’t see how a 33 year old Russ with a young first time coach in a new town and new locker room with all new players is gonna light it up . If he does I will eat the crow and tip a cap to him . I feel optimistic about next season for lots of reasons but mostly I just do . It’s a gut instinct and I’ve been right about the team and other things based on a hunch before . We shall see

We would be fine if you didn't call Russ names or attack him like you are. I'm genuinely pissed off we traded Russell Wilson. If I had my way, I would have fired Pete and John. I like Russell Wilson and I am never going to be ashamed or feel bad for saying it. I think trading Russell Wilson was a dumb idea. I don't see anything indicating Russell isn't still Russell. All I see is a team around Russ degrading. No consistent run game with Carson getting hurt nearly every year. Defense falling apart to the point we haven't had a double digit pass rusher since Frank Clark in 2018. Secondary a shadow of what it once was. People putting the onus on Russ for not being able to work magic when the same has happened to Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Peyton, Mahomes, and nearly every QB not named Brady far more often than not every year, especially so when the team around them starts to degrade as Seattle has.

Fact is Russ is still putting up Russ numbers. You know who isn't putting up numbers? The rest of the team other than Bobby Engram's tackles from the defense not being able to get off the field and the wide receivers who Russ is throwing to.

I don't get how anyone assesses this team and goes, "Russ was the problem." It's mind boggling.

Hell, I'm mad at Pete and John. I wish Paul Allen were still alive so this would have been handled as he gave Pete his walking papers for suggesting the idiot move he and John decided was best for the team.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm waiting for the hammer to finally drop on the two guys who have messed this up when they can't throw anyone else under the bus: Pete Carroll and John Schneider. But given the state of current team ownership, might be a while but it's coming.

You don’t like me calling Russ names but you have referred to me as a garbage person , low character , liar , rumormonger, half the character of Wilson . I’d beg to disagree on all of that . It’s false and it’s another ad hominem personal attack on me. You can do better .

If I say I read it I did . I do not make these quotes up .
Like the checked out stuff . Some of the examples such as unnamed scouts and Fo people were written after 2020 season . There were already questions in some experts minds.

You love Russ , think he’s great , hadn’t lost a thing. You blame Pete .
Fine . Again explain what they should have done for him to keep him ?

The more I learn about it the less respect I have for the guy and I’m not alone by any means . He’s a public figure no different then an actor or politician who has placed a bullseye square on his chest by saying he can’t win here , doesn’t have the team , doesn’t have the coach .

I suspect reality will set in at some point .

You don’t like my opinion fine . Don’t question my character for being a passionate fan who doesn’t like the way the dude acted on the way out . Doesn’t change what he did but it’s a sour taste . But I’m not some low class dirtbag for calling him out .

[Old but Slow]

Not to be negative, but opinions are like assholes. Everyone's got one.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

I wanted Russ to stay and recapture the magic. My question for the keep Russel camp is how to you explain all the 3 and outs? Not taking check downs? Throwing into double coverage on deep balls when there was no need? Dismal playoff performances? I won’t give a $35 million QB a pass on those things; that doesn’t get all pinned out n the team and the coaching staff. I’ll say it again, he’s lost something or thinks his way is the best way despite teams taking it away from him. I will not be surprised if he comes up short in Denver. His game has to change and become comprehensive or he won’t win anything big again. And I’m talking about moving the chains, making those 3rd down completions, and letting the big shots come to him as opposed to forcing them.

[RiverDog]

I wanted Russ to stay and recapture the magic. My question for the keep Russel camp is how to you explain all the 3 and outs? Not taking check downs? Throwing into double coverage on deep balls when there was no need? Dismal playoff performances? I won’t give a $35 million QB a pass on those things; that doesn’t get all pinned out n the team and the coaching staff. I’ll say it again, he’s lost something or thinks his way is the best way despite teams taking it away from him. I will not be surprised if he comes up short in Denver. His game has to change and become comprehensive or he won’t win anything big again. And I’m talking about moving the chains, making those 3rd down completions, and letting the big shots come to him as opposed to forcing them.

That's pretty much my take, too. There's no doubt that Russell's game had deteriorated since midway through the 2020 season. His 3rd down completion percentage was one of the worst in the league. He refused to throw across the middle and opted for low percentage sideline throws. He wanted to play 'Hero ball'.

I would have rather seen Russell stay and fire Pete and JS. I still firmly believe that Russell still has the ability to 'recapture the magic', as you put it. It will be interesting to see how he does in Denver.

[NorthHawk]

I think he’s going to have a good year for the simple reason he’s part of creating the Offense in Denver.
Instead of being on the outside and just pushing levers when told, he’s actually going to do
things he likes and be part of the system. The whole gamut of plays is open to him instead of the
box he was confined to.

[I-5]

I think he’s going to have a good year for the simple reason he’s part of creating the Offense in Denver.
Instead of being on the outside and just pushing levers when told, he’s actually going to do
things he likes and be part of the system. The whole gamut of plays is open to him instead of the
box he was confined to.

I completely agree with this. Which means he should get the credit if it’s successful. And when defenses figure it out and it’s not successful?