Poll: How many games will we win in 2022?

[RiverDog]

It's way too premature to be making predictions, but I thought it might be interesting to see what the consensus is within our little group.

[Hawktawk]

10-7 . We’re better now then at seasons end and will continue to improve . The schedule makers couldn’t have given us a better week one matchup to get everyone’s head wrapped around the task at hand . A week one litmus test on what was done here and in Denver . Lay down a marker for a league that disrespects us .

[RiverDog]

10-7 . We’re better now then at seasons end and will continue to improve . The schedule makers couldn’t have given us a better week one matchup to get everyone’s head wrapped around the task at hand . A week one litmus test on what was done here and in Denver . Lay down a marker for a league that disrespects us .

I, too, think that it's an advantage to have the Denver game early. They will be putting in a new offense and it's going to take time for them to get accustomed to it and their new QB. But I'm not so sure that it will be enough of an advantage to give us the win.

But I see us playing less than .500 ball within our division, lose at least two games against the AFC West, split with the NFC South with likely wins against the Panthers and Falcons, split our games with the two NY teams, lose on the road to the Lions.

Adding that up, that's around 6-7 wins, so I gave ourselves the benefit of the doubt.

[NorthHawk]

Denver has too much talent for us to beat them.
Besides if Denver is putting in a new Offense, aren't we supposed to be doing the same with Waldron? But with a much lesser QB and OL.

I think our low is 4 wins and our high is maybe 7 if the cards fall our way.
I think we will have 5 losses within our Division and 4 losses against the AFC West.
So that would leave 8 games to pick up some wins.
Of those, I think the most likely are 1 win against the Cards, the Falcons, Giants, Panthers, and Detroit (but I think the Lions might be tougher this year than last).
Then add in a couple of unexpected wins as is the norm in the NFL

[c_hawkbob]

5.5 man, I can read

[tarlhawk]

7-9 games based on a different beginning than in 2021. We stumbled out of the gate offensively as well as defensively.

On offense Kyle Fuller was not ready for "prime time" and O-Line mates suffered for it as important communication along the line was all messed up...not to mention the growing pains for Damien Lewis at LG after he had "nailed" RG as a rookie.

The D-Line suffered from bad execution in our secondary coverage issues. We changed our use of Jamal Adams whose blitzes came from a deeper depth disguise which only fooled our corner backs who thought he had underneath coverage only to "disappear" coming in to blitz post-snap. The messed up coverage gave our opponents QB quick easy targets which gave little time for our pass rush "to strike home" on the QB.

Why should 2022 start better? Ethan Pocic is gone (instead of being injured)...but Blythe Austin is more experienced and a good fit for what O-Line Coach Andy Dickerson wants to do to support Shane Waldron's offense.

On the defensive side our "Defensive Coaching Brain Trust" has our corner backs competing for more man coverage mixed into the zone schemes we've been relying on...this should create more hesitation on the enemy QB...affording enough time for the D-Line to disrupt the quick passing game that put us behind in time of possession.

Our team's movement toward youth will have the drawback of lacking an older vet's experience while countering the higher injury risk (an older team has to dodge)

The WILD CARD is our QB play...how quickly they respond to minimizing turnovers will be "key"...and provide the necessary offensive balance to keep our opponents defense from "loading the box" to stop our running emphasis.

[RiverDog]

7-9 games based on a different beginning than in 2021. We stumbled out of the gate offensively as well as defensively.

On offense Kyle Fuller was not ready for "prime time" and O-Line mates suffered for it as important communication along the line was all messed up...not to mention the growing pains for Damien Lewis at LG after he had "nailed" RG as a rookie.

The D-Line suffered from bad execution in our secondary coverage issues. We changed our use of Jamal Adams whose blitzes came from a deeper depth disguise which only fooled our corner backs who thought he had underneath coverage only to "disappear" coming in to blitz post-snap. The messed up coverage gave our opponents QB quick easy targets which gave little time for our pass rush "to strike home" on the QB.

Why should 2022 start better? Ethan Pocic is gone (instead of being injured)...but Blythe Austin is more experienced and a good fit for what O-Line Coach Andy Dickerson wants to do to support Shane Waldron's offense.

On the defensive side our "Defensive Coaching Brain Trust" has our corner backs competing for more man coverage mixed into the zone schemes we've been relying on...this should create more hesitation on the enemy QB...affording enough time for the D-Line to disrupt the quick passing game that put us behind in time of possession.

Our team's movement toward youth will have the drawback of lacking an older vet's experience while countering the higher injury risk (an older team has to dodge)

The WILD CARD is our QB play...how quickly they respond to minimizing turnovers will be "key"...and provide the necessary offensive balance to keep our opponents defense from "loading the box" to stop our running emphasis.

Nice take. The only thing I disagree with is that we "stumbled out of the gate" in 2021. We played what was arguably our best game of the year in our season opener in Indianapolis where we beat the Colts decisively, then in Week 2 in our home opener, leaped out to a 24-9 halftime lead vs. the Titans before the wheels came off the wagon.

[tarlhawk]

We still "stumbled"...our 1rst victory (Indy) failed to expose our weaknesses...it gave us false security.

[RiverDog]

We still "stumbled"...our 1rst victory (Indy) failed to expose our weaknesses...it gave us false security.

Yeah, maybe. Nevertheless, we won decisively in our first game, played magnificently in the first half of the 2nd game, losing in overtime, then in Week 4, played a solid game by beat the Niners on the road. After our first 4 games, we were 2-2, a better winning percentage than our final record. I don't think that constitutes "stumbling out of the gate."

The fork in the road was Week 5 at home vs. the Rams when Russell got hurt. From that point on, we lost 6 of the last 7, our only win coming against a hapless Jacksonville team, and virtually sealed our fate.

[Aseahawkfan]

Denver has too much talent for us to beat them.
Besides if Denver is putting in a new Offense, aren't we supposed to be doing the same with Waldron? But with a much lesser QB and OL.

I think our low is 4 wins and our high is maybe 7 if the cards fall our way.
I think we will have 5 losses within our Division and 4 losses against the AFC West.
So that would leave 8 games to pick up some wins.
Of those, I think the most likely are 1 win against the Cards, the Falcons, Giants, Panthers, and Detroit (but I think the Lions might be tougher this year than last).
Then add in a couple of unexpected wins as is the norm in the NFL

Is Denver that talented? Their record the last five years doesn't exactly scream "talented" to me. Maybe they've been stockpiling high picks that are just now starting to perform. But who exactly are the highly talented Denver players? Because their record is way worse than us the last five years.

[Stream Hawk]

Denver has too much talent for us to beat them.
Besides if Denver is putting in a new Offense, aren't we supposed to be doing the same with Waldron? But with a much lesser QB and OL.

I think our low is 4 wins and our high is maybe 7 if the cards fall our way.
I think we will have 5 losses within our Division and 4 losses against the AFC West.
So that would leave 8 games to pick up some wins.
Of those, I think the most likely are 1 win against the Cards, the Falcons, Giants, Panthers, and Detroit (but I think the Lions might be tougher this year than last).
Then add in a couple of unexpected wins as is the norm in the NFL

I’m not seeing Denver is having more talent than us. Obviously taking the quarterback away. Thing is we know that quarterback - Pete especially knows their qb. I think we win that game, especially since I should be in attendance;).

The poll is down already but I’ve been seeing 6 win floor, 9 win ceiling. Of course, I hope I’m wrong and all stars align. But we are in a brutal division, and also we play have to play the division in the league. Overall, I see us putting it all together in the last half of the season as our Oline gels. Defense should be better all year, and also perhaps take a leap towards elite in the second half.

[Hawktawk]

We stumbled horribly out of the gate . Even in the Indy win I saw Russ doing weird things to try to throw without stepping into it and taking a hit. Tennessee was an unmitigated disaster . Defense played incredible in the first half and we saw the best of Wilson’s game with several long bomb TDs.

But time of possession wore down the defense. and coupled with Adams running out of a play Derrick Henry housed and the offense did zero other than a busted coverage to Swain on 3rd and 12. After they caught us the Defense got one more stop in overtime and handed Russ the ball at the 12 needing 3 to win . 2 terrible throws and a 12 yard sack with homer wide open later game over . After the game Pete offered rare critique of Russ and got clapped back on by Russ , one of about 4 games I recall that dynamic last year . Week 3 shut out in the second half vs Vikes . Shut out first half vs the 9ers .

Scored 17 on the Rams , 10 by Geno in the 4th quarter . Then a backup for 3 games that should have been 6. We all saw it . We will have a more consistent chain moving offense this season . Won 4 of last 6 , 2 vs bad teams 2 vs good teams . Sandwiched in a 10 point masterpiece vs the Rams , shut out . Lost nick Foles .
We lost our franchise qb awhile back .

[Hawktawk]

Denver has too much talent for us to beat them.
Besides if Denver is putting in a new Offense, aren't we supposed to be doing the same with Waldron? But with a much lesser QB and OL.

I think our low is 4 wins and our high is maybe 7 if the cards fall our way.
I think we will have 5 losses within our Division and 4 losses against the AFC West.
So that would leave 8 games to pick up some wins.
Of those, I think the most likely are 1 win against the Cards, the Falcons, Giants, Panthers, and Detroit (but I think the Lions might be tougher this year than last).
Then add in a couple of unexpected wins as is the norm in the NFL



I’m not seeing Denver is having more talent than us. Obviously taking the quarterback away. Thing is we know that quarterback - Pete especially knows their qb. I think we win that game, especially since I should be in attendance;).

The poll is down already but I’ve been seeing 6 win floor, 9 win ceiling. Of course, I hope I’m wrong and all stars align. But we are in a brutal division, and also we play have to play the division in the league. Overall, I see us putting it all together in the last half of the season as our Oline gels. Defense should be better all year, and also perhaps take a leap towards elite in the second half.

Yeah what’s with this Denver has all this talent . They haven’t made the playoff since manning retired and sad to tell you Russ is not manning . He’s not even Russ anymore .

I’m actually wondering where is their DK? Where is their Fant ? Lockett ? Penney ? Walker ? I know they’re defense is good but they lost a very good tackle in Harris’s too . Our D will be much better Good luck with a rookie head coach and a demanding QB and a new team playing in his old house vs a team he said wasn’t good enough, a hall of fame coach pushing 20 years in the league and 10 dominating the college game that was keeping him down . And he was a coach who didn’t understand offense according to the greatest qb ever , just ask him
Get. Your. Popcorn.

[trents]

7-9 but closer to 7.

[NorthHawk]

Is Denver that talented? Their record the last five years doesn't exactly scream "talented" to me. Maybe they've been stockpiling high picks that are just now starting to perform. But who exactly are the highly talented Denver players? Because their record is way worse than us the last five years

They have a better OL, better run game, better DL, better RBs
than us. Add in a top QB and their talent is much better than ours.
We probably have better WRs, but do we have the QB that can get
them the ball?
They also have a CB in Patrick Surtain who can shut down one side of the field.

[Aseahawkfan]

They have a better OL, better run game, better DL, better RBs
than us. Add in a top QB and their talent is much better than ours.
We probably have better WRs, but do we have the QB that can get
them the ball?
They also have a CB in Patrick Surtain who can shut down one side of the field.

I have heard of Patrick Surtain.

We'll find out early. If they can get all the parts working around Russ, no better QB who will give them everything he has and come in highly prepared to make the Denver offense sing.

Personally, I still think Russ is one of the best QBs in the NFL. One down year isn't changing my mind. I think Pete and John have been the reason we fell off. They haven't drafted well or maintained the roster well. I see Russ as another example of Pete throwing people under the bus before the owner decides there are no more people for Pete to throw under the bus and it's his time to move on. Last person Pete has to throw under the bus is John Schneider. We'll see if it comes to that.

[NorthHawk]

I think Russ has 5 to 8 good years in him.
I also think his game changed in 2019 when after winning the first 5 games mostly because of Wilson's play, they had a rough patch on Offense.
Pete then pulled in the reins and by this action basically said he didn't trust Wilson and they were going back to Peteball. So although Wilson
played well, he didn't seem to be emotionally committed to that Offense. When a QB loses the trust of the coach then things change and although
the effort is the same, somehow the product isn't the same.
We commented in this forum about the change in Wilson at the time. Some thought he was injured, but his demeanor was different. Something
was off about his play. We now see what happened.

So I think this change to an Offense that runs through him will reinvigorate him and he's going to have a very good year and next few years at least.

[RiverDog]

Personally, I still think Russ is one of the best QBs in the NFL. One down year isn't changing my mind. I think Pete and John have been the reason we fell off. They haven't drafted well or maintained the roster well. I see Russ as another example of Pete throwing people under the bus before the owner decides there are no more people for Pete to throw under the bus and it's his time to move on. Last person Pete has to throw under the bus is John Schneider. We'll see if it comes to that.

IMO Russell's problems have been more than just "one bad year." Take a look at his last playoff performance vs. the Rams. He had lost his magic, no longer played well in big games.

As I stated in another thread, in 2020, Russell hung onto the ball longer than any other starting QB that wasn't at least 6 years younger than he is (Baker Mayfield was the oldest). The only starters he was getting the ball out faster than were young running QB's like Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, and Jalen Hurts. Heck, Patrick Mahomes got the ball out faster than Russell did. Older QB's, like Worthlessburger and Brady, were getting the ball out a half second faster than Russell was.

However, in spite of that, I do agree that he's still a very good quarterback.

[NorthHawk]

When the Offense is predicated on throwing deep passes, the QB has to hold onto the ball longer.
That being said, he did try to make something out of nothing more often than he should have.
That's fixable, though with a different Offense. His new Offense if like LaFleurs and Shanahan's
will have more of a West Coast feel and could be far more diverse than Peteball.

[tarlhawk]

When the Offense is predicated on throwing deep passes, the QB has to hold onto the ball longer.
That being said, he did try to make something out of nothing more often than he should have.
That's fixable, though with a different Offense. His new Offense if like LaFleurs and Shanahan's
will have more of a West Coast feel and could be far more diverse than Peteball.

Interesting supposition however Russell often opts for deep passing even if he has to audible out of a called play. Waldron's offense and play calling didn't mesh that well with RW's passion to play to his strength in deep pass accuracy so this year will likely reveal if our O-line woes were an indirect function of our QB play when RW was here or just crappy drafting as you portend to quite often.

This doesn't deter me from liking RW while he was here...I was very much in denial when many claimed RW wanted out...and I appreciated the "cardiac" offense he delivered when the "chips were down". RW wasn't always elite...his first few years were a mutual benefit of having Marshawn Lynch in the backfield and a smothering defense which kept returning him more possessions to work with...the point being RW didn't carry the burden of being "the man" until his skills had developed further and he became elite.

Perhaps opportunity on a well supported team and QB confidence can allow Drew Lock to thrive. RW was given a chance and thrived into becoming elite...maybe Drew has some talent that can bloom in an offense that was built to keep RW elite. It is absurd to contrast him to the QB RW became...but an improved Drew Lock given a "fresh start" can climb into a top 20 QB rating after a couple years...

[NorthHawk]

We are assuming that's what Wilson wanted to do, but maybe he felt he had to to that to give them the best chance to win.
I think in the varied Offense that he should see and that he has a hand in developing the playbook, we just might see a more
diverse QB who's willing to do other things than just throw deep. He says he wants to be the best so if shorter routes and quicker
passes means more wins and better stats, he may very well be all in with Denver rather than just playing the same Offense year after year.

[Hawktawk]

I think Russ has 5 to 8 good years in him.
I also think his game changed in 2019 when after winning the first 5 games mostly because of Wilson's play, they had a rough patch on Offense.
Pete then pulled in the reins and by this action basically said he didn't trust Wilson and they were going back to Peteball. So although Wilson
played well, he didn't seem to be emotionally committed to that Offense. When a QB loses the trust of the coach then things change and although
the effort is the same, somehow the product isn't the same.
We commented in this forum about the change in Wilson at the time. Some thought he was injured, but his demeanor was different. Something
was off about his play. We now see what happened.

So I think this change to an Offense that runs through him will reinvigorate him and he's going to have a very good year and next few years at least.

Good luck with that . I don’t think he will last 4 years in Denver if that

[Hawktawk]

When the Offense is predicated on throwing deep passes, the QB has to hold onto the ball longer.
That being said, he did try to make something out of nothing more often than he should have.
That's fixable, though with a different Offense. His new Offense if like LaFleurs and Shanahan's
will have more of a West Coast feel and could be far more diverse than Peteball.

He’s the one launching deep balls . He ignores short routes . I watched it all year and most of the last 2
Good luck Hackett

[Aseahawkfan]

IMO Russell's problems have been more than just "one bad year." Take a look at his last playoff performance vs. the Rams. He had lost his magic, no longer played well in big games.

As I stated in another thread, in 2020, Russell hung onto the ball longer than any other starting QB that wasn't at least 6 years younger than he is (Baker Mayfield was the oldest). The only starters he was getting the ball out faster than were young running QB's like Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, and Jalen Hurts. Heck, Patrick Mahomes got the ball out faster than Russell did. Older QB's, like Worthlessburger and Brady, were getting the ball out a half second faster than Russell was.

However, in spite of that, I do agree that he's still a very good quarterback.

The Rams had a good game. They sacked him 5 times. He still put up 2 TDs and ran for 50 yards. Rams were well prepared and played a great game against us.

Doesn't exactly mean Russ is done.

The defense didn't exactly help us a lot.

Once you're in the playoffs, you need more than just a great QB to go all the way.

Russ is still our best option at QB on a quality team to win it all. Not Geno or Lock.

[obiken]

Denver has too much talent for us to beat them.
Besides if Denver is putting in a new Offense, aren't we supposed to be doing the same with Waldron? But with a much lesser QB and OL.

I think our low is 4 wins and our high is maybe 7 if the cards fall our way.
I think we will have 5 losses within our Division and 4 losses against the AFC West.
So that would leave 8 games to pick up some wins.
Of those, I think the most likely are 1 win against the Cards, the Falcons, Giants, Panthers, and Detroit (but I think the Lions might be tougher this year than last).
Then add in a couple of unexpected wins as is the norm in the NFL

Thats what I say!! WE have to face the Bucs, Broncs, Chiefs, Raiders, Chargers, Rams 2x, That's 7 losses right there, all with better teams and QB's than we have. In the bag games are the Jets, Lions, Panthers, and Saints. (Course they just picked up JL from the Browns. the pickem games are the Falcons, and Giants. thats five, then you split with the 9ers and the Cards, sorry, I dont see 10 wins at all, and that's assuming we can beat the cupcakes who are bigger cupcakes than us, when has that ever worked out for us. We are actually better off losing this year than winning, the nightmare scenario is 7-9 9-7, the old Chuck Knox motif.

[RiverDog]

IMO Russell's problems have been more than just "one bad year." Take a look at his last playoff performance vs. the Rams. He had lost his magic, no longer played well in big games.

As I stated in another thread, in 2020, Russell hung onto the ball longer than any other starting QB that wasn't at least 6 years younger than he is (Baker Mayfield was the oldest). The only starters he was getting the ball out faster than were young running QB's like Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, and Jalen Hurts. Heck, Patrick Mahomes got the ball out faster than Russell did. Older QB's, like Worthlessburger and Brady, were getting the ball out a half second faster than Russell was.

However, in spite of that, I do agree that he's still a very good quarterback.

The Rams had a good game. They sacked him 5 times. He still put up 2 TDs and ran for 50 yards. Rams were well prepared and played a great game against us.

Russell was 11-27 for 174 yards with 2 TD's and 1 INT. That was arguably his worst playoff performance of his career. It was the same team that we beat just two weeks earlier, beat us even though their starting QB had a broken thumb, and if I recall, Aaron Donald didn't even play. There was no excuse for us getting embarrassed like that.

Doesn't exactly mean Russ is done.

I never said that he was. I said that his play had slipped, that since the middle of the 2020 season through this season, he hasn't played well at all. I also said that his problems were fixable under the right coaching and offensive philosophy. Unlike Hawktalk, I feel that Russell is still a very good QB if he'll just quit trying to play hero ball.

Russ is still our best option at QB on a quality team to win it all. Not Geno or Lock.

Agreed, and it's not even close. If I had my druthers, I'd rather have Russell on our team. But he didn't want to be here, and if he wasn't going to sign an extension, I would have rather traded him like we did instead of trying to force him to play under circumstances where he was unhappy by using a very expensive franchise tag.

It's water under the bridge now. No sense arguing about it anymore.

[Aseahawkfan]

Agreed, and it's not even close. If I had my druthers, I'd rather have Russell on our team. But he didn't want to be here, and if he wasn't going to sign an extension, I would have rather traded him like we did instead of trying to force him to play under circumstances where he was unhappy by using a very expensive franchise tag.

It's water under the bridge now. No sense arguing about it anymore.

I agree with you for the most part. I'm tired of the retroactive "Russell sucks" rubbish and the other personal shots. I think Russ had good reasons to be unhappy with how Pete and John (mostly Pete) were running the show. I'm tired of hearing otherwise. No QB likes his OC to be a revolving door, while at the same having a head coach who doesn't seem to want to change anything offensively even why he changes OCs.

[Hawktawk]

I didn’t want him after “ tired of getting hit so much “ 3 months after thinking he might win the MVP. I want win now guy to start but Geno smith is a better option in 2022 then bringing this team cancer and coach killer back . I don’t care who it is . You don’t want to be here GTFO pronto and let’s ride your @ss into the lumen field turf to kick it off .

Good luck with that Nathanial Hackett .

[NorthHawk]

I think Hackett will do well with Wilson because he will tailor his Offense to what Russ does well and wants to do instead of
demanding that Russ do what Pete wants him to do.
When you have a talented player and you box him in to only a single way of playing it's a massive misuse of ability and potential.
And that's an odd thing on Offense as the FO looks for players with something special.
On Defense Pete would tweak the Defense to take advantage of that special quality to get the most out of him. On Offense it has
been one of limiting players to play one way. Trading for Graham then boxing him into being a blocking TE instead of a dominating
Red Zone or huge WR type of TE which made him special is the most glaring example, but they did the same with Wilson at QB in
limiting him to a Peteball Offense.

[tarlhawk]

instead of demanding that Russ do what Pete wants him to do.
When you have a talented player and you box him in to only a single way of playing it's a massive misuse of ability and potential.
And that's an odd thing on Offense as the FO looks for players with something special.
On Defense Pete would tweak the Defense to take advantage of that special quality to get the most out of him. On Offense it has
been one of limiting players to play one way. Trading for Graham then boxing him into being a blocking TE instead of a dominating
Red Zone or huge WR type of TE which made him special is the most glaring example

demanding that Russ do what Pete wants him to do.

Insert "Head Coach" in place of "Pete" ...whoa...the Head Coach demanding his QB do what he wants him to do...poor Russ I guess he "struggled" into getting all those 3500 -4000 yard seasons...clearly without being "boxed" in RW would've averaged 5000-6000 yd seasons.

When you have a talented player and you box him in to only a single way of playing it's a massive misuse of ability and potential.

...single way of playing? The "poor" guy had to tolerate some running plays being called in from the sidelines?? ...such coaching audacity!

Trading for Graham then boxing him into being a blocking TE instead of a dominating
Red Zone or huge WR type of TE which made him special is the most glaring example,

Anyone who was paying attention to how our GM acquired Jimmy Grahm knows we were not seeking him...John Schneider "confessed" he had called the Saints GM on some other matter and their GM surprised him by "offering" Jimmy G. (Surely not because their GM had a contentious contract haggle with Jimmy G. the year before...since Grahm wanted "receiver" money...not TE money).

Anyone watching Jimmy play for us was not "confused" by any of his "blocking skills"...he'd barely chip in an elbow on his release into a downfield route. Ask Ifedi if poor Jimmy Grahm was "boxed" into being an in-line blocker? Didn't happen...RW is a sharp QB but Dree Brees performed "magic" with Jimmy Grahm.

[Hawktawk]

Another excellent point. Graham lit it up
In New Orleans but was supposedly a bad trade here

[Aseahawkfan]

demanding that Russ do what Pete wants him to do.

Insert "Head Coach" in place of "Pete" ...whoa...the Head Coach demanding his QB do what he wants him to do...poor Russ I guess he "struggled" into getting all those 3500 -4000 yard seasons...clearly without being "boxed" in RW would've averaged 5000-6000 yd seasons.

When you have a talented player and you box him in to only a single way of playing it's a massive misuse of ability and potential.

...single way of playing? The "poor" guy had to tolerate some running plays being called in from the sidelines?? ...such coaching audacity!

Trading for Graham then boxing him into being a blocking TE instead of a dominating
Red Zone or huge WR type of TE which made him special is the most glaring example,

Anyone who was paying attention to how our GM acquired Jimmy Grahm knows we were not seeking him...John Schneider "confessed" he had called the Saints GM on some other matter and their GM surprised him by "offering" Jimmy G. (Surely not because their GM had a contentious contract haggle with Jimmy G. the year before...since Grahm wanted "receiver" money...not TE money).

Anyone watching Jimmy play for us was not "confused" by any of his "blocking skills"...he'd barely chip in an elbow on his release into a downfield route. Ask Ifedi if poor Jimmy Grahm was "boxed" into being an in-line blocker? Didn't happen...RW is a sharp QB but Dree Brees performed "magic" with Jimmy Grahm.

Jimmy Graham was in a Sean Payton led offense who designed a high volume passing offense around Drew Brees. The reason Jimmy Graham never produced to the same level because we don't and never will run a high volume passing offense under Pete Carroll. Even with a much lower passing volume, Jimmy Graham set every Seattle TE receiving record with Russell Wilson throwing to him. And after Jimmy Graham left Seattle even with Aaron Rodgers throwing to him, he never returned to even the form he had in Seattle.

[RiverDog]

demanding that Russ do what Pete wants him to do.

Insert "Head Coach" in place of "Pete" ...whoa...the Head Coach demanding his QB do what he wants him to do...poor Russ I guess he "struggled" into getting all those 3500 -4000 yard seasons...clearly without being "boxed" in RW would've averaged 5000-6000 yd seasons.

When you have a talented player and you box him in to only a single way of playing it's a massive misuse of ability and potential.

...single way of playing? The "poor" guy had to tolerate some running plays being called in from the sidelines?? ...such coaching audacity!

Trading for Graham then boxing him into being a blocking TE instead of a dominating
Red Zone or huge WR type of TE which made him special is the most glaring example,

Anyone who was paying attention to how our GM acquired Jimmy Grahm knows we were not seeking him...John Schneider "confessed" he had called the Saints GM on some other matter and their GM surprised him by "offering" Jimmy G. (Surely not because their GM had a contentious contract haggle with Jimmy G. the year before...since Grahm wanted "receiver" money...not TE money).

Anyone watching Jimmy play for us was not "confused" by any of his "blocking skills"...he'd barely chip in an elbow on his release into a downfield route. Ask Ifedi if poor Jimmy Grahm was "boxed" into being an in-line blocker? Didn't happen...RW is a sharp QB but Dree Brees performed "magic" with Jimmy Grahm.

Jimmy Graham was in a Sean Payton led offense who designed a high volume passing offense around Drew Brees. The reason Jimmy Graham never produced to the same level because we don't and never will run a high volume passing offense under Pete Carroll. Even with a much lower passing volume, Jimmy Graham set every Seattle TE receiving record with Russell Wilson throwing to him. And after Jimmy Graham left Seattle even with Aaron Rodgers throwing to him, he never returned to even the form he had in Seattle.

Jimmy Graham was a textbook case of trying to fit a round peg into a square hole. He wasn't a true inline tight end as he was soft and a horrible blocker, especially when at the time, our offensive line needed support from the tight end. Not only that, but with the exception of his last year with us, he never developed into the red zone threat that was one of the primary justification for bringing him in in the first place. I don't care how the deal came about, but we got hosed. It was a bust of a trade that hurt us by giving up a Pro Bowl center without a viable replacement other than "next man up!"

[tarlhawk]

I have never supported the idea of the Jimmy Grahm trade...(in hindsight though) as I felt a taller receiver similar to what Sidney Rice once offered would allow a red zone explosion. This wasn't the first time I endured dashed hopes from hearing a "big name" be traded to my favorite team. As a Miami Dolphin fan I was prematurely excited when I heard (on our local radio) Chuck Muncie (a star RB) from the Saints was "coming to Miami" to pair up with Dan Marino. That excitement was quickly cut short when he failed his reporting physical (a failed drug test)...Don Shula had zero tolerance for such with their team based in Miami.

I knew Max Unger was an all-pro loss...but at that point in time I knew more about play makers than I did any men in the trenches...my naivete of the center position was embarrassing...I thought "how hard is it to replace the man who "just" hikes the ball?

[Hawktawk]

I have never supported the idea of the Jimmy Grahm trade...(in hindsight though) as I felt a taller receiver similar to what Sidney Rice once offered would allow a red zone explosion. This wasn't the first time I endured dashed hopes from hearing a "big name" be traded to my favorite team. As a Miami Dolphin fan I was prematurely excited when I heard (on our local radio) Chuck Muncie (a star RB) from the Saints was "coming to Miami" to pair up with Dan Marino. That excitement was quickly cut short when he failed his reporting physical (a failed drug test)...Don Shula had zero tolerance for such with their team based in Miami.

I knew Max Unger was an all-pro loss...but at that point in time I knew more about play makers than I did any men in the trenches...my naivete of the center position was embarrassing...I thought "how hard is it to replace the man who "just" hikes the ball?

I used to coach grid kids . My son played center and I always told him you’re the qb of the offense line . Yeah the center is important . But a couple of things here . For one it’s not like Unger was hall of fame . I remember hearing bill polian after Super Bowl 48. It was in the context of praising Russell Wilson for his performance . He said it was more remarkable due to the terrible play of Unger who was abused by pot roast . Even Beast got stuffed 38 yards .

Polian saud of Unger “ he’s got a big name “ I’ve contended since 48 Russell should have been co/ mvp along with the entire defensive unit . He didn’t get the credit he deserved for the game he played that day.

I have no problem with the trade other than it was wasted on Wilson who was never a feed the stud receiver qb but rather spread it around to the open man . Which is winning football .

The guy set some team records . He ruptured his patella skying to high point a ball . So who knows what his postseason contribution might have been that year ? Hardly the worst trade in the history of the franchise ..

[NorthHawk]

The problems with the trade was twofold.
They wanted to box Graham into a traditional TE role and take away what made him a difference maker.
and
They didn’t have a successor to Unger in place. And they still haven’t fixed that.

One of but not the worst trade in Seahawks history.

[RiverDog]

The problems with the trade was twofold.
They wanted to box Graham into a traditional TE role and take away what made him a difference maker.
and
They didn’t have a successor to Unger in place. And they still haven’t fixed that.

One of but not the worst trade in Seahawks history.

Bingo!

The other thing was that bringing in Jimmy Graham was one of the things that gradually changed the character of the team. Graham was well known as a soft player, the polar opposite of guys like Marshawn Lynch, the LOB, the Big Russian, Mike Robinson, Zach Miller, and others. With Graham, we lost that nastiness that defined our team.

[Hawktawk]

Hardly one of our worst trades. Jesus . Dude set team records and that was with being extremely badly hurt . Hindsight is 2020. It’s easy drafting and trading that way . look real smart .

[RiverDog]

Hardly one of our worst trades. Jesus . Dude set team records and that was with being extremely badly hurt . Hindsight is 2020. It’s easy drafting and trading that way . look real smart .

What is this, a fantasy football forum? So he put up some good numbers. BFD. He didn't contribute to the success of the team. I would rate the trade for Jimmy Graham as one of the three worst trades that Pete has made since he's been here, the other two being the Harvin trade and Jamal Adams, of whom the jury is still out.

We'll start calling you Stevie Wonder if you thought he was a good fit for our offense.

[Aseahawkfan]

Jimmy Graham was a textbook case of trying to fit a round peg into a square hole. He wasn't a true inline tight end as he was soft and a horrible blocker, especially when at the time, our offensive line needed support from the tight end. Not only that, but with the exception of his last year with us, he never developed into the red zone threat that was one of the primary justification for bringing him in in the first place. I don't care how the deal came about, but we got hosed. It was a bust of a trade that hurt us by giving up a Pro Bowl center without a viable replacement other than "next man up!"

I can't say as I disagree. Like I said, Carroll has "Shiny Toy" disease where you see something that looks real good on someone else's team, but when you bring it to your team it doesn't work out so well.

I feel like Carroll reached a point where he got bored of his methodology and tried to grab a few risky players he thought he could make work. Then again when does Pete ever admit he can't make something work. He thought he could change Percy Harvin and he found out the hard way Harvin was an incorrigible selfish jackass.

It's this kind of stuff that pisses me off when I hear criticism of Russell, while someone like hawktawk makes excuses for the Percy Harvin trade. Percy Harvin was a real locker room cancer. Harvin was an extremely selfish player all about how he wanted to do things and not at all team oriented. Just a jerk of a player and a human being who did not enough for this team to justify the trade. Literally tried to hit Doug Baldwin and just acted like a complete selfish jackass while here.

I hear people making excuses for this guy? Really? While you're talking about Russell Wilson being bad for the team or what not? Get real.

To me the Percy Harvin trade was a terrible trade. We didn't need him. He did next to nothing for us. He was a true locker room cancer that was a waste of money and picks. I would have rather have spent the 1st round pick on some other player.

Jimmy Graham at least wasn't a locker room cancer. Neither is Jamal Adams. I can at least look at a trade for a guy who gives everything he's got to try to help us win in some positive light. Whereas Harvin was just bad trade all the way around other than a few highlight reel plays we didn't even need.