Getting Ready for 2022-(Play Makers)

[Hawktawk]

It has almost always been the winning formula . Lombardis are not boring

[Aseahawkfan]

You're the one that ought to be establishing a criteria. You're the one that made the statement that Pete would still ground and pound the rock even if he was behind. You should be showing me the numbers rather than forcing me to do your homework for you.

However, to answer your question, in today's NFL, if you run more than you pass, ie 50% or greater running plays, then it's a run heavy, pound the rock offense. That happened in just one of our 9 losses in 2010. As a matter of fact, during the entire 2010 season, we ran the ball just 41% of the time. It was before we had a great defense, before Russell Wilson had arrived, and Beast had just arrived in a mid season trade. Before then our lead running back was Justin Forsett, not exactly a pound the rock sort of guy.

Compare that 41% run percentage in 2010 and 47% in 2011 when we still didn't have a top 5 defense or a running quarterback, to 57% in 2012, 55% in 2013, and 54% in 2014, the height of our LOB when Russell was running read options, Beast was at the peak of his career, and we had top 5 defenses.

Bottom line is that when Pete didn't have a top 5 defense ie 2010 and 2011, he didn't run the ball. Pete Ball only works when you have a very good defense like he did in 2012, 2013, and 2014 with a point guard like Russell Wilson running it. Unless he has a defense that limits the scoring of his opponents, Pete won't be running the ball more than 50% of the time.

You have done the work. And have your proven your case. I concede this point to you, sir. Seems Pete may abandon the run if we are getting blown out and let the QBs throw like crazy. I guess that will will tell him if these QBs are worth investing in.

[RiverDog]

You have done the work. And have your proven your case. I concede this point to you, sir. Seems Pete may abandon the run if we are getting blown out and let the QBs throw like crazy. I guess that will will tell him if these QBs are worth investing in.

Wow, thanks for the acknowledgement, my friend.

[NorthHawk]

The philosophy of keeping it close then win at the end requires a QB that is a talented passer.
I’m not sure we have a QB on the the roster that an pull it off on a regular basis. At least
none of them have shown to have that quality.

[RiverDog]

The philosophy of keeping it close then win at the end requires a QB that is a talented passer.
I’m not sure we have a QB on the the roster that an pull it off on a regular basis. At least
none of them have shown to have that quality.

Not only that, but he has to take care of the ball. That's one of the things that made Russell the perfect QB to run Pete Ball, because he was very good at protecting the football. Both Geno and Lock have had problems with turnovers during their careers.

[Hawktawk]

The philosophy of keeping it close then win at the end requires a QB that is a talented passer.
I’m not sure we have a QB on the the roster that an pull it off on a regular basis. At least
none of them have shown to have that quality.

Not only that, but he has to take care of the ball. That's one of the things that made Russell the perfect QB to run Pete Ball, because he was very good at protecting the football. Both Geno and Lock have had problems with turnovers during their careers.

Geno didn’t throw a pick in 3 starts . The only one he threw was when Lockette was tripped vs the rams . He still put up 10 points in the quarter including a98 yards drive cold as a cucumber . That’s as many points as the worlds greatest ever QB ever scored the entire second game vs the rams . 7 less than all world Russ scored in 7 quarters vs the rams . We lost our franchise qb awhile ago . Denver got what’s left .

Reports of our demise are greatly exaggerated. Can not wait .

[c_hawkbob]

Still hanging your hat on three games instead of his entire body of work (34 TDs - 37 INTs), good luck with that.

[RiverDog]

Still hanging your hat on three games instead of his entire body of work (34 TDs - 37 INTs), good luck with that.

Geno threw all but one of those interceptions while playing for the Jets, and that was 8 years ago, so they don't count. Only last season counts, and even the one Geno threw last year wasn't his fault as his receiver fell down. Plus the strip sack fumble that sealed our fate against the Steelers last season wasn't his fault, either, as TJ Watt made a great play forcing the turnover. There's not a single quarterback in NFL history that could have held onto the ball on a play like that.

The best gauge of Geno's ability is the game against Jacksonville last season when he went 20-24 with 2 TD's and no interceptions. DK Metcalf said that Geno is the best quarterback he's ever played for.

I thought I'd save Hawktalk some work.

[Hawktawk]

Still hanging your hat on three games instead of his entire body of work (34 TDs - 37 INTs), good luck with that.

Yeah Bob . I have no idea what will happen or even if Geno will start next year but his numbers over 13 quarters didn’t resemble the Jackass that NY drafted . Definitely starter quality .

He’s been with Seattle 3 years so my guess if he’s looked like that guy here in practice he would be long gone . Pete thinks it’s who he is now obviously with a lot at stake .

If Seattle truly flipped the guys game that dramatically it’s very exciting for Drew Locke as well . I know banking on a 35 million malcontent who got beat by 3 straight backups , shut out , worst completion % of his career was a loser . Cut out the tumor and move on . I’d love nothing more than to see Seattle crush Denver and Geno or Locke hang 400 yards on them.

[NorthHawk]

Not going to happen.

[Hawktawk]

Still hanging your hat on three games instead of his entire body of work (34 TDs - 37 INTs), good luck with that.

Geno threw all but one of those interceptions while playing for the Jets, and that was 8 years ago, so they don't count. Only last season counts, and even the one Geno threw last year wasn't his fault as his receiver fell down. Plus the strip sack fumble that sealed our fate against the Steelers last season wasn't his fault, either, as TJ Watt made a great play forcing the turnover. There's not a single quarterback in NFL history that could have held onto the ball on a play like that.

The best gauge of Geno's ability is the game against Jacksonville last season when he went 20-24 with 2 TD's and no interceptions. DK Metcalf said that Geno is the best quarterback he's ever played for.

I thought I'd save Hawktalk some work.

Damn you are hilarious . Not
Clearly Geno isn’t jets Geno if he would not be on the god damn roster much less have a hall of fame coach say he’s in the lead to start . You’ve earned my nickname Stevie wonder .

What DK said was “ I’ve never had a ball like that” . You must have missed that play Stevie wonder even though you were there . Watching on Tv, especially twice reveals a lot more than in the stadium. Of the season record 15 completions to start the game beating Arod half at least were contested fairly closely . He completed 10 to Lockett in the first half , like they were toying with the defense at the end . Yeah I do take a lot of stock in an 80% completion % rate . 2 TDs and a rush TD taking a smash in the mouth on a slam dunk over the top, a play Wilson could never attempt . 138 rating . His teammates who universally love him tweeting congrats including DK. That Jags team had as they are held Buffalo to 6 the next week and knocked the colts out of the playoffs quite convincingly . It’s the nfl. It was a lot more fun than watching the little dictator get shut out and waste a 17 point defensive effort , go 0-3 losing to 2 backups and averaging 9 ppg in that stretch .

Yeah I’ll roll with Geno . Not worried

[Hawktawk]

Not going to happen.

we shall see. Who will come into that game with pressure ? Who will come in with a boulder on their shoulder . 1 is dog meat coming off a last place finish traded the best qb in the history of the game. That guy said he wanted out to be able to win . The pundits are split but most expect them to contend. My bet is Seattle is going to be a home dog to a team with a Qb who disrespected them .

Getcha popcorn . Superteams on paper don’t always turn out that way . Nor do bottom feeders

[Aseahawkfan]

We shall see. Who will come into that game with pressure ? Who will come in with a boulder on their shoulder . 1 is dog meat coming off a last place finish traded the best qb in the history of the game. That guy said he wanted out to be able to win . The pundits are split but most expect them to contend. My bet is Seattle is going to be a home dog to a team with a Qb who disrespected them .

Getcha popcorn . Superteams on paper don’t always turn out that way . Nor do bottom feeders

We already have a historical pattern for a Pete team in this position. It's a 5 to 7 win team. Not the worst team in the league, but not a real playoff contender.

All any of us care to see during this rebuild is improvement. If the team starts moving in the right direction on defense while we wait for Pete and John to find the next QB, most of us will be pretty happy.

The defense was going in the wrong direction. A Pete team with a bad defense isn't a Pete Carroll team. They needed to do something to replenish the talent on the defensive side of the ball. Pete's football philosophy don't work without a good defense and run game.

This Russ trade may have allowed us to rebuild real quick if these tackles work out and we now have Penny on a "show me you're real" contract and this new guy putting pressure on as well. Got a nice pass rush prospect and hopefully Darryl Taylor will keep getting better.

Now we just need some of these picks to work out, especially in the secondary, and maybe this defense can start moving in the right direction again.

[NorthHawk]

Yup, pretty much it, ASF.
I don’t think the OTs are going to be good early and that translates to losses. As well,
our Defense is expected to be doing something different so it would be expected to
have a learning curve on that side of the ball.
But like you said, if the draft picks work out they could be pretty good in a couple of years.
But this year it would be wise to not expect a lot of wins.

[RiverDog]

We shall see. Who will come into that game with pressure ? Who will come in with a boulder on their shoulder . 1 is dog meat coming off a last place finish traded the best qb in the history of the game. That guy said he wanted out to be able to win . The pundits are split but most expect them to contend. My bet is Seattle is going to be a home dog to a team with a Qb who disrespected them .

Getcha popcorn . Superteams on paper don’t always turn out that way . Nor do bottom feeders

We already have a historical pattern for a Pete team in this position. It's a 5 to 7 win team. Not the worst team in the league, but not a real playoff contender.

All any of us care to see during this rebuild is improvement. If the team starts moving in the right direction on defense while we wait for Pete and John to find the next QB, most of us will be pretty happy.

The defense was going in the wrong direction. A Pete team with a bad defense isn't a Pete Carroll team. They needed to do something to replenish the talent on the defensive side of the ball. Pete's football philosophy don't work without a good defense and run game.

This Russ trade may have allowed us to rebuild real quick if these tackles work out and we now have Penny on a "show me you're real" contract and this new guy putting pressure on as well. Got a nice pass rush prospect and hopefully Darryl Taylor will keep getting better.

Now we just need some of these picks to work out, especially in the secondary, and maybe this defense can start moving in the right direction again.

I agree, except that I'm not going to be "pretty happy" waiting for Pete and John to find our next QB. I wanted both of them gone at the end of this past season, so if we have another 5-7 win season this year, I'm going to want someone's head. Even if they were able to stumble onto our next QBOTF, I have very little confidence that they can find that magic once again and build a perennial contender.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

I agree, except that I'm not going to be "pretty happy" waiting for Pete and John to find our next QB. I wanted both of them gone at the end of this past season, so if we have another 5-7 win season this year, I'm going to want someone's head. Even if they were able to stumble onto our next QBOTF, I have very little confidence that they can find that magic once again and build a perennial contender.

I'll be calling for somebody's head if we're not competing in the 2023 season. I'm a broken record, but Wilson wasn't playing like the Wilson of old. Maybe he finds his game again, but I wouldn't be surprised if the same trend continues in Denver. Good enough to get you in the playoffs, but not good enough to go very far. I think they moved on and got a haul while another team believes Wilson still has it and/or will find it again.

It was a helluva draft with the opportunity to have another great draft next offseason. There's a lot to like about the Seahawks current situation.

And all great QB rides come to an end, and most teams in the league don't have their next franchise qb sitting on the bench.

[NorthHawk]

As long as this isn't a 1 off draft and they actually embrace the rebuild and not go back to their old ways of passing by talent for more but lesser players then
we might have a chance in 2023. Providing we get another Franchise type QB we should be set for 2024.
How they manage the next 2 drafts will be key for the long term success of this franchise barring more stupid trades torpedoing the future.

[tarlhawk]

The next point of emphasis for our Play Makers is signing DK Metcalf to an extension. Until the QB situation is settled and fills the leadership void of RW's departure...the "face" of our team will be a more mature DK Metcalf. The quicker he's signed the less "distraction" our team will face as we get closer to the 2022 season.

[Hawktawk]

I completely agree. DK and our skill players in general are the key to being competetive with a non franchise qb. And potentially we have one of the best skill position groups in the league to put around whoever is taking snaps .

[Aseahawkfan]

I agree, except that I'm not going to be "pretty happy" waiting for Pete and John to find our next QB. I wanted both of them gone at the end of this past season, so if we have another 5-7 win season this year, I'm going to want someone's head. Even if they were able to stumble onto our next QBOTF, I have very little confidence that they can find that magic once again and build a perennial contender.

I don't know how you expect that when you have as many holes on both sides of the ball as we do and only draft picks that will need development to make an impact. The expectation that rooks are going to come in from day 1 across the board and suddenly turn your team into a Super Bowl competitive team is not realistic at all.

Nothing is going to stop you from being unhappy, but it's not a realistic viewpoint.

Given what we have done trading away the franchise QB and the veteran defensive leader as well as cutting or not re-signing other veteran talent, we're in a rebuild. Rebuilds take time even if they produce fairly quick results like Pete did the first time.

Maybe Pete and John don't recapture the magic, but I'd be ok with a 7-9 win season if I see the tackles developing, the defensive line starting to show signs of life, one of these CBs develops, and our run game is more consistent.

I'm a realistic fan. I know how this rebuild process works. It is highly unlikely it turns around quickly. That doesn't mean we didn't draft well if we see the players developing. If you see no progress and we fall into some 4 and 13 gutter with the new drafted players barely taking the field or looking terrible, then I can see continuing the push for change. If we're making good progress, I'm good to go for a while longer.

[Aseahawkfan]

I completely agree. DK and our skill players in general are the key to being competetive with a non franchise qb. And potentially we have one of the best skill position groups in the league to put around whoever is taking snaps .

The key to being competitive is our run game and defense and how well our defensive line develops.

Shootouts with the QB throwing to your high quality receivers is not what we want to be doing with Pete as head coach. We want to see Pete's coaching philosophy in the development of the units. That means tough defense that gets turnovers, a run game that grinds yards and clock, and a brutal, grinding style of defensive football as we turn back into the machine of destruction we were when the Legion of Boom legendary defense was going with Marshawn eating yards and pounding defenses into submission.

Then toss in a good enough QB and we'll be rolling again.

[tarlhawk]

Shootouts with the QB throwing to your high quality receivers is not what we want to be doing with Pete as head coach.

Shootouts never aid a defense...the purpose of having strong play makers is to "pepper" them with rushing then deliver a deep strike when they stack the box to stop the "bleeding" from your rushing attack...balance with an EMPHASIS on time consuming running. Pete understands a strong running attack softens the other team into being exposed by play action for "surgical" strikes...not a shootout.

[NorthHawk]

And yet since Marshawn left, the team rarely had an emphasis on the run game.
Time and again they messed up getting a good OL and bypassed top RBs, so it’s
difficult to think Pete really is committed to the run game even though it fits
the image we have of Pete’s system.

[Hawktawk]

Injuries . Nobody would question a healthy Carson is top 10, angry AF.

Nobody with eyes would question that a healthy Rashers Penney isn’t a mvp lead the league in rushing talent type guy over 17 games: Injuries are not the teams fault . We’re gonna run on every team we face .

[Aseahawkfan]

And yet since Marshawn left, the team rarely had an emphasis on the run game.
Time and again they messed up getting a good OL and bypassed top RBs, so it’s
difficult to think Pete really is committed to the run game even though it fits
the image we have of Pete’s system.

We spent a lot of picks on the run game. It hasn't worked out.

Christine Michel 2nd round pick
Robert Turbin 4th round pick
Prosise 3rd round pick
Chris Carson 7th round pick (Probably done the most for us even though a late pick)
Rashaad Penny 1st round pick
Travis Homer 6th round pick
Deejay Dallas 4th round pick
Kenneth Walker III 2nd round pick

We spent draft capital trying to get a new RB. They haven't worked out too well for a variety of reasons.

[NorthHawk]

Exactly.
Crappy drafting and no clue how to build a solid OL.
Bypassed Chubb and Taylor while knowing our RBs have not been able to complete a full season since Marshawn left.
It’s a big part of the decline in talent.

[Aseahawkfan]

Exactly.
Crappy drafting and no clue how to build a solid OL.
Bypassed Chubb and Taylor while knowing our RBs have not been able to complete a full season since Marshawn left.
It’s a big part of the decline in talent.

It's all Russell's fault because analysis. Missed draft picks and lack of talent replenishment has nothing to do with it or Pete and John failing to draft well.

Russ isn't as good as he used to be, so he caused our downfall.

We've had really high performing players at nearly ever other position but QB. If we just had a halfway decent QB like Geno Smith (who should have been starting) we would be doing so much better.

C'mon, Northawk, It's all Russell's fault. We haven't missed on any draft picks or let our talent decline into the gutter. Pete hasn't changed O-coordinators every other year or D-coordinators. Or drafted guys who haven't produced all over the team. It's all been Russ as a locker room cancer and generational talent on the injury list. That's the reason we've been on the decline.

And yeah, I know. The primary reason we are where we are is missed draft picks on both sides of the ball. Hard to keep pace teams with like the Rams and 49ers when they are drafting Nick Bosa and signing Jalen Ramsey and we're drafting Malik McDowell and trading for Jamal Adams.

[NorthHawk]

It occurred to me about the decline of this team under Carroll that having the best players is incompatible with "Always Compete".
Consider that Pete says that every job is on the line (the basic philosophy of his coaching) yet at the same time who was going to
compete with Wilson, Wagner, Sherman, ET, Kam, Lynch, Avril, Bennett, maybe KJ Wright at that time?
So with these Pro Bowlers and All Pros on the team, how can that philosophy be reinforced year after year?
I'm wondering if maybe that's why this regime might be better at building a team than maintaining one that's near the best.

[RiverDog]

It occurred to me about the decline of this team under Carroll that having the best players is incompatible with "Always Compete".
Consider that Pete says that every job is on the line (the basic philosophy of his coaching) yet at the same time who was going to
compete with Wilson, Wagner, Sherman, ET, Kam, Lynch, Avril, Bennett, maybe KJ Wright at that time?
So with these Pro Bowlers and All Pros on the team, how can that philosophy be reinforced year after year?
I'm wondering if maybe that's why this regime might be better at building a team than maintaining one that's near the best.

Yeah, the "always compete" motto seems to work better at the college level where there aren't as many veterans and age/seniority aren't as much of a factor. I remember that discussion when we first hired Pete, as at the time, I considered Pete as primarily a college coach whose style wasn't compatible with the NFL. Perhaps I wasn't as wrong as I thought I was.

[NorthHawk]

I think it can work if you continually draft for the future and not to just fill holes because you think you are just a player away.
It would mean being like Belichick and trading away players who have just reached the top of their abilities and have a higher
probability of becoming less effective. But the key to that is having developed a player who can step in and make up for the
traded players departure.
Our draft has been the Achilles heel, and along with bad trades we just didn't restock the shelves so when we lost all of that
early year talent nobody was ready to step in.

[tarlhawk]

Exactly.
Crappy drafting and no clue how to build a solid OL.
Bypassed Chubb and Taylor while knowing our RBs have not been able to complete a full season since Marshawn left.
It’s a big part of the decline in talent.

Nick Chubb and Jonathan Taylor sounds a bit like hindsight rather than a serious lack of drafting acumen. Just like Frank Gore and Todd Gurley before him...Nick Chubb suffered a serious knee injury the year before his final year in college. All three of these men were considered top twenty 1rst rd RB prior to their injury and all 3 slipped out of 1rst rd consideration.

Nick Chubb was the second of two 2nd picks Cleveland had in the 2018 draft (thanks to a trade in the previous year where the Texans unloaded QB Brock Ostweiler, a 2017 6th and a 2018 2nd rd pick (turned out to be Chubb) for Cleveland's 2017 4th rd selection)

The irony was that Rashaad Penny had a healthy college career and at the time of the draft the Seahawks were satisfied that Chris Carson was their feature back. Penny was a good complement for RB depth and offered very good electric kickoff returner capabilities.

From a Walter Jones scouting report:
In 2017, Penny dominated the competition while averaging 7.8 yards per carry for 2,248 yards with 23 touchdowns, plus he had 19 receptions for 135 yards and two scores.

As a back, Penny is a thickly built downhill runner. He has a surprising burst to hit the hole and accelerate to the second level. Penny is fast for a big back and can run away from the defense when he gets to the open field. His second gear is very impressive and makes him dangerous to rip off long runs on any carry. Penny combines quick, feet, good balance, and decisive running to be a dangerous runner for a zone-blocking system. That kind of system would be his best fit in the NFL.

As a receiver, Penny is a great fit for the current offensive systems in the NFL. He runs good routes, has soft hands, and is able to find soft spots in the defense for his quarterback. Penny is dangerous in the open field, as defensive backs struggle to stop him coming downhill. Penny needs to improve his blocking, but he has potential there. Once he does, he could be a strong three-down back with the ability to hurt defenses as a runner or a receiver, or in protecting his quarterback.

"Penny is super talented," said a NFC director of college scouting. "He is a smooth runner, athletic, has some [speed], is good in the pass game and a returner. His makeup and work ethic isn't great. He has learning issues, so he might need to start with a 7-8 touches-per-game role until he learns to enough to gradually expand it."

The issues with learning could be seen at the Senior Bowl, where Penny turned in an unimpressive week of practice. He was playing slowly, seemingly thinking too much on the field. As a result, Penny might need some developmental time learning the playbook before he is able to make an impact for his NFL team. While Penny develops, he could have a limited role on offense and also contribute as a returner on special teams.


As for Jonathan Taylor our draft focus was on defense grabbing Jordyn Brooks late in the 1rst and moving up in the 2nd rd to nab Darryl Taylor. KC Chiefs and Detroit Lions both needed and drafted a RB ahead of Taylor.

Even Indianapolis took a player ahead of Taylor (with their 2nd rd 34th pick) before trading up (with the Browns) from their second 2nd rd draft selection (44th) to pick up Taylor with the 41rst pick. Cleveland traded their 2nd rd pick to the Colts for their 2nd rd pick and an additional 5th rd pick (160th)

Your "crappy" drafting observation gets less traction as 2019 and 2020 drafts continue to bear "fruit" and our limited 2021 draft gets coupled with an excellent 2022 draft. Our O-Line is a likely result of targeted areas to "save salary cap money" since RW was never a classic pocket passing QB anyways and year after year of lower round draft picks making O-line selections a "murky draft crystal ball".

With high draft selections (2010 and 2022) and sans RW our team fortifies the O-line..."mystery" solved.

[Hawktawk]

All true tarihawk. And what I find laughable about the chubby for Chubb( who has missed time ) folks even try to suggest Penney lacked late first round talent . If he had numbers like that at Georgia or Alabama he’s a top 5 pick . The other thing they conveniently overlook is that an unnamed team suspected to be NE called to try to trade for the player the moment Seattle made the pick . JS said he never heard of that before and declined . Further more NE also passed on Chubb and took Sony Michelle who has since been traded . But Pete is an idiot .

I see it like Dave Wyman . Drafting talent is a question of whether your pick is an NFL starter caliber pick . Or a star caliber pick in the first round .You can’t blame a team for injuries . Clearly Penney is a generational type bell cow back when healthy and was well deserving of a first round selection . This might be the year it pays off .

[NorthHawk]

With Chubb, they bypassed a proven winner who dominated at the highest level in College for a player from a lesser football division who only had 1 year play time.
Chubb fit all of their physical and toughness parameters that we have used in drafting as well as being one of the most explosive RBs in that draft.
It was simply another case of JS thinking he was smarter than everyone else and getting burned playing stupid games. And we paid the price for 4 years because of it.

With Taylor we bypassed the best runner in the draft after years of picking up RBs off the street at the end of the year because of known health issues with the starters
and we see him leading the league in explosive runs and TDs.
Well done, Front Office.

[tarlhawk]

Yes! Well done front office! In just a short sampling of Penny's potential when healthy and confident Rashaad made the NFL take notice of heroics once reserved for Jonathan Taylor.

From John Boyle (Seahawks.com):

But now football is far from over for Penny, who over the final six weeks of the season looked not only like a first-round pick, but arguably like the best running back in the league.

Over Seattle's final five games, Penny rushed for 671 yards, the most in the NFL over that span, and scored six touchdowns. For the season Penny averaged an NFL-best 6.3 yards per carry, and during that five-game finish stretch he had eight runs of 25 or more yards, tied for the most in the entire season with All-Pro running back Jonathan Taylor, who had 332 carries to Penny's 119. Penny and Taylor were the only two running backs to have two games of 170 or more yards, and Penny's 190-yard game in Week 18 was the second highest single-game total in the league in 2021 behind Minnesota running back Dalvin Cook's 205-yard game in Week 14. Penny and Taylor were also the only two players to rush for 135 or more yards four times (Taylor had five such games).

Chubb just like Todd Gurley (Rams) rewarded the team(Browns) willing to take a chance on an injury flagged draftee. Chubb is among the elite of NFL running backs...but Penny is quickly knocking on the door.

[Hawktawk]

With Chubb, they bypassed a proven winner who dominated at the highest level in College for a player from a lesser football division who only had 1 year play time.
Chubb fit all of their physical and toughness parameters that we have used in drafting as well as being one of the most explosive RBs in that draft.
It was simply another case of JS thinking he was smarter than everyone else and getting burned playing stupid games. And we paid the price for 4 years because of it.

With Taylor we bypassed the best runner in the draft after years of picking up RBs off the street at the end of the year because of known health issues with the starters
and we see him leading the league in explosive runs and TDs.
Well done, Front Office.

What has Cleveland won ?

[Hawktawk]

With Chubb, they bypassed a proven winner who dominated at the highest level in College for a player from a lesser football division who only had 1 year play time.
Chubb fit all of their physical and toughness parameters that we have used in drafting as well as being one of the most explosive RBs in that draft.
It was simply another case of JS thinking he was smarter than everyone else and getting burned playing stupid games. And we paid the price for 4 years because of it.

With Taylor we bypassed the best runner in the draft after years of picking up RBs off the street at the end of the year because of known health issues with the starters
and we see him leading the league in explosive runs and TDs.
Well done, Front Office.

Penney had more yards in the last 6 weeks after contact then Taylor had yards . Penney had over 200 more yards in that span . While Taylor was plodding along for 75 yards as Indy was eliminated by Jacksonville quite convincingly Penney was hanging 195 on an 11 win team . You people need your vision checked

[NorthHawk]

Yup.
Penny was in the conversation for MVP, unlike Taylor wasn't he.
Penny has shown the last 4 years that he's capable of being the bell cow RB a running team needs, hasn't he.
Penny has been worth more to his team than either Chubb or Taylor, hasn't he.
Penny has been so good the team signed him long term, wasn't he.

Great pick FO. You really got your money's worth the last 4 years.

[tarlhawk]

Yup.
Penny was in the conversation for MVP, unlike Taylor wasn't he.
Penny has shown the last 4 years that he's capable of being the bell cow RB a running team needs, hasn't he.
Penny has been worth more to his team than either Chubb or Taylor, hasn't he.
Penny has been so good the team signed him long term, wasn't he.

Great pick FO. You really got your money's worth the last 4 years.

Boy you really hold a grudge over someone who sustains a major injury? The fact that you seem forced to compare Penny to two very talented NFL running backs is very telling of the value of Penny and less reflective of any argument for your point of view...Jonathan Taylor has been healthy and plays behind a respected O-Line. Chubb has overcome a major injury in college and plays for a team that has benefited from playing so mediocre they've had sustained high draft capital and cap space (until the latest signing for DeShaun Watson).

[Hawktawk]

Yup.
Penny was in the conversation for MVP, unlike Taylor wasn't he.
Penny has shown the last 4 years that he's capable of being the bell cow RB a running team needs, hasn't he.
Penny has been worth more to his team than either Chubb or Taylor, hasn't he.
Penny has been so good the team signed him long term, wasn't he.

Great pick FO. You really got your money's worth the last 4 years.

Penney sat behind Carson healthy for a year and a half because Pete had this big bruising battering ram that he preferred that was a bigger injury problem because he was being counted on . In his 2018 playoff vs Dallas Carson got stuffed 20 yards on 14 Carries as Penney had 27 on 4 . Pete didn’t know what he had . But he does now . For his career Penney averaged 6.1 yards per carry when he got the ball ten or more times . That’s bell cow with a turbo . 3 weeks before being severely injured Penney rushed for 138 on 14 carries, a 9.2 average . He got hurt 16 yards downfield on a pass play after his only touch of the game . His last 6 were ridiculous . He’s more explosive than Chubb or Taylor who was held to 75 yards by Jacksonville to miss the playoffs .

Injuries do not count when evaluating talent . Derrick Henry missed most the year and was ineffective in the divisional . Injuries are bad luck and have nothing to do with talent . The Seahawks bet 5.5 million it wasn’t a flash in the pan . If healthy he’s 1500 yards and 15 TDs next year . It’s one reason why we will be much better than most think . Drafting Walker means it’s even more certain we will run . Great backs make great lines just like great QBs make great receivers .

[Aseahawkfan]

Boy you really hold a grudge over someone who sustains a major injury? The fact that you seem forced to compare Penny to two very talented NFL running backs is very telling of the value of Penny and less reflective of any argument for your point of view...Jonathan Taylor has been healthy and plays behind a respected O-Line. Chubb has overcome a major injury in college and plays for a team that has benefited from playing so mediocre they've had sustained high draft capital and cap space (until the latest signing for DeShaun Watson).

You and hawktawk seem to be pinning a lot of your hopes on Penny, who received a one year prove it contract because even the NFL wasn't willing to overpay for a guy who had 6 great games and otherwise couldn't stay healthy.

Not sure why this small segment is so high on Penny and Geno Smith thinking they'll keep us competitive, but whatever. You get to make those comments until reality occurs.

It's all rainbows and roses and champagne until the the real games start and the reality of losing a QB like Russ and a defensive leader like Bobby shows up on the field. And you find out rookie tackles with limited experience have to learn to play at the NFL level before they get to do a great job blocking for a Penny who will show that six games doesn't make a career. He wasn't doing that great prior to his injury, which also seems to be forgotten by you and hawktawk.

Even before Penny suffered the ACL injury Penny wasn't able to take the starting job. This so called generational talent and big, fast back wasn't able to get consistently going. It's not just the ACL. It's been other small injuries that prevent him from going.

Injury history:
https://www.draftsharks.com/fantasy/injury-history/rashaad-penny/9978

Productivity:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/P/PennRa00.htm

Not sure why you guys are engaging in revisionist history like Penny's just had the one injury and been amazing other than that. He hasn't. He had the one big injury that put him out for a year, a bunch of smaller injuries, and those six amazing games are the highlight of an otherwise unspectacular career where he hasn't been able to take the starting job from a 7th round pick named Chris Carson.

I hope the guy has some kind of amazing career revival and turns those six games into a spectacular career. But let's not pretend those six games are somehow the norm for Penny. They were an anomaly in his four year career that saved his career from ending. Penny has turned six games into a "prove it's real" one year contract and hopefully he can.