Trouble in the Desert

[NorthHawk]

I call what special QBs have Royal Jelly.
It’s that something special that separates them from the run of the mill QBs.
Some people are just born leaders and they instill confidence in their teammates
and their teammates have confidence in them. It’s not something that can be quantified.

[Aseahawkfan]

Not that I'm disagreeing, but a number of quarterbacks have had that same criticism leveled at them that later won big games, John Elway and Steve Young being two that come to mind.

Elway went to five Super Bowls. I never heard anyone questioning Elway, just the team around him.

Elway was an athletic freak. I still remember the guy punting the ball one time just because he could. He finally got a team around him, laid it all on the line, and won the big game back to back.

[Aseahawkfan]

I call what special QBs have Royal Jelly.
It’s that something special that separates them from the run of the mill QBs.
Some people are just born leaders and they instill confidence in their teammates
and their teammates have confidence in them. It’s not something that can be quantified.

I feel quality QBs are rated by consistency.

Teams win Super Bowls. You can have a team win a one off Super Bowl with a low to average quality QB like we've seen if you have some amazing surrounding parts. But a quality QB punches your ticket yearly to try to win a Super Bowl giving you more chances and keeps you competitive in the playoffs by keeping the offense operating at a high level.

[RiverDog]

Not that I'm disagreeing, but a number of quarterbacks have had that same criticism leveled at them that later won big games, John Elway and Steve Young being two that come to mind.

Elway went to five Super Bowls. I never heard anyone questioning Elway, just the team around him.

Elway was an athletic freak. I still remember the guy punting the ball one time just because he could. He finally got a team around him, laid it all on the line, and won the big game back to back.

You might not have heard the criticism, but I sure as hell did.

In college, Elway's Stanford Cardinals never so much as went to a bowl game. He didn't win a SB until late in his career. His Broncos lost big three times in the Super Bowl in the 80's, to the Giants, Redskins, and Niners. There was an 8 year gap between when they lost their 3rd SB until they went to another one. It wasn't until the 1997 season, Elway's 14th year, that the Broncos finally won a Super Bowl. Elway was tagged with "can't win the big one." I remember the debate vividly.

[NorthHawk]

I don't vividly recall that argument, but I remember something about it.
However, it should have been dispelled because he got them to the big dance 3 times before winning one. And that's a huge accomplishment in itself.
This is unlike other QBs that can't win in the playoffs and when the moment arises where a big play from the QB is needed, they don't deliver.

[RiverDog]

I don't vividly recall that argument, but I remember something about it.
However, it should have been dispelled because he got them to the big dance 3 times before winning one. And that's a huge accomplishment in itself.
This is unlike other QBs that can't win in the playoffs and when the moment arises where a big play from the QB is needed, they don't deliver.

That's true. A similar argument can be made about Jim Kelly. He led the Bills to 4 straight SB's, losing each one. He, too, was IMO unfairly lumped with the "can't win the big one" tag, as if he was the one that was responsible for Scott Norwood's miss.

My point was that there have been instances where some very good quarterbacks were once labeled with the "can't win the big one" tag. I was mentioning it as a counter point to you and HT's discussions about the difference between good and great QB's being whether or not they're 'clutch.'

[tarlhawk]

Interesting banter...Stringing victories together from close one score games seems weighted on the Great rather than the good QB side. One score games are like an explosive "50-50" TD catch...your great WR make them with fair regularity while your good WR seems more likely to be looking (hoping) for an opportunistic penalty flag.