Trade Metcalf

[c_hawkbob]

The problem isn't' not being able to draft good players, it's being unwilling to pony up on payday. We let too many good player become great players for other team on their second and third contracts.

And this "just good enough to make the playoffs" rings a bit hollow when we used to be ecstatic about just making the playoffs. If you look at the whole picture, wins/losses, playoff appearances/playoff success, or virtual any other measure over the last ten years we'll be right up their toward the top as well.

We've got a good organization, I'm just PO'd with them right now.

[Oly]

To reiterate my take: It isn't so much about the player as it is the position. You do not build teams around a highly paid wide receiver. IMO the WR position is the most over rated of any on the field. You do not need to be a world class athlete to excel (see Cooper Kupp). Good wide receivers are a dime a dozen.

If you accept that premise, if you're not willing to pay north of $25M a year keeping in mind Tyler Lockett will be pulling down $15M, then it makes sense to trade Metcalf now while he's still under contract rather than let him walk and get nothing but a bottom of the 3rd round comp pick in return.

I'll agree you don't need to be a world class athlete to excel. I don't agree that good WRs are a dime a dozen, though. In fact, when you look at the 1st round bust rate, I think that drafting a world class WR is incredibly difficult. There is a ton of luck involved, and the Hawks got lucky with DK. If they traded him, it could be a long time until we get anyone of his caliber again.

In an ideal world, we'll see DK's hands, blocking, and decision making continue to improve this year and vault him into the top tier of receivers with Kupp and Adams. Then, I'd pay DK and pair him with a rotating mix of rookies and solid veterans on cheap contracts. He is just so versatile. He gives you that big-bodied WR to high point lobs in the red zone or to even do what a good TE could do in the end zone. But he also gives you elite speed. No other receiver checks both boxes. His combination of size and speed forces the safety to his side on deep routes, opening up the other side of the field. In part, that's why I also disagree about the WR position being the most over-rated. Even when DK isn't the target, he can change the defense's shape and create opportunities on the other side of the field. And on a run-heavy team, if he can improve his blocking technique, he becomes incredibly valuable. Granted, he needs to do that, but a good coordinator could do really interesting things with jet sweeps and outside runs with such a big dude blocking the edges.

I'll end with another point of agreement: I don't think the Hawks should pay DK if they're also committed to Lockett. That is too much money at the position. That's why I'd rather see them sign DK and either trade Lockett (as much as I love him) or, if by some miracle they really turn it around this year, hold onto both for a SB run in the 2023 season (again, so unlikely as to be laughable, but still...)

[Aseahawkfan]

My feeling is if they can go cheap at QB now and find a winner, you can pay DK for a second contract while you have the cheap QB under contract.

But we really have to hit on some defensive line players and a CB. We are really bad at those position groups. It's why our defense spends all day on the field. It doesn't matter if you're making tackles after the 1st down is made or after the opposing offense is grinding you down which is why tackles aren't much of a measure of a quality defense. We need a defensive line that can stop the run or accelerate the pass. But we can't shut down either right now. That's a bad place to be. We need at least one CB who can cover one on one alone so the safety can be used to back up the other CB. If we don't get that, then we're still gonna be hamstrung on defense.

We had terrible ToP last year because the defense couldn't get off the field combined with an offense that couldn't sustain a drive. This is a recipe for disaster.

If Pete and John can't get the D-line moving in the right direction, we're going to have a really bad year.

[Oly]

My feeling is if they can go cheap at QB now and find a winner, you can pay DK for a second contract while you have the cheap QB under contract.

But we really have to hit on some defensive line players and a CB. We are really bad at those position groups. It's why our defense spends all day on the field. It doesn't matter if you're making tackles after the 1st down is made or after the opposing offense is grinding you down which is why tackles aren't much of a measure of a quality defense. We need a defensive line that can stop the run or accelerate the pass. But we can't shut down either right now. That's a bad place to be. We need at least one CB who can cover one on one alone so the safety can be used to back up the other CB. If we don't get that, then we're still gonna be hamstrung on defense.

We had terrible ToP last year because the defense couldn't get off the field combined with an offense that couldn't sustain a drive. This is a recipe for disaster.

If Pete and John can't get the D-line moving in the right direction, we're going to have a really bad year.

This analysis is spot-on.

[obiken]

I dont trust DK and I never will, too diva for me.

[NorthHawk]

I don't see DK as being a diva at this point.
I do see a kid learning how to be a professional. I think it's still 50/50 whether he turns into a diva or a Julio Jones type.

[RiverDog]

I don't see DK as being a diva at this point.
I do see a kid learning how to be a professional. I think it's still 50/50 whether he turns into a diva or a Julio Jones type.

Terrell Owens or Larry Fitzgerald. Which wide receiver is DK going to be more like?

I was pretty disappointed in Metcalf's reaction to criticism by Shannon Sharpe about his failure to step out of bounds against the Steelers last fall. That was a T.O. move.

But that's not what I'm worried about.

[NorthHawk]

That reaction to Sharpe's comment was a teaching moment.
Apparently Wags sat next to him and discussed what is needed to be a pro and how to handle things better.
I hope he took it to heart.

[Hawktawk]

Terrell Owens or Larry Fitzgerald. Which wide receiver is DK going to be more like?

I was pretty disappointed in Metcalf's reaction to criticism by Shannon Sharpe about his failure to step out of bounds against the Steelers last fall. That was a T.O. move.

But that's not what I'm worried about.

Baloney . It was a DK Metcalf move and he almost had it if the guy doesn’t punch it out . I’ve watched it numerous times . Neither of the 2 guys bracketing him expected him to try it . He never gave away the sideline and had cleared the first guy completely and the second guy punched out the ball which might have ended the game . A great defensive play because he’s not wrapping up DK either cause if DK is even he’s leaving . . I’ll never fault a great player trying to make a great play against a team that wound up with 55 sacks , 5 on Geno . Trying to end it right there . In the end it didn’t matter . Same mentality as running 90 yards to tackle a guy on the 2 .

He’s not TO . He’s in counseling on his own accord . He’s not Fitzgerald . Nobody is. He’s in camp , not demanding a trade like his former Qb or all these prima Donna guys except him . He’s a keeper .

[RiverDog]

Terrell Owens or Larry Fitzgerald. Which wide receiver is DK going to be more like?

I was pretty disappointed in Metcalf's reaction to criticism by Shannon Sharpe about his failure to step out of bounds against the Steelers last fall. That was a T.O. move.

But that's not what I'm worried about.

Baloney . It was a DK Metcalf move and he almost had it if the guy doesn’t punch it out . I’ve watched it numerous times . Neither of the 2 guys bracketing him expected him to try it . He never gave away the sideline and had cleared the first guy completely and the second guy punched out the ball which might have ended the game . A great defensive play because he’s not wrapping up DK either cause if DK is even he’s leaving . . I’ll never fault a great player trying to make a great play against a team that wound up with 55 sacks , 5 on Geno . Trying to end it right there . In the end it didn’t matter . Same mentality as running 90 yards to tackle a guy on the 2 .

He’s not TO . He’s in counseling on his own accord . He’s not Fitzgerald . Nobody is. He’s in camp , not demanding a trade like his former Qb or all these prima Donna guys except him . He’s a keeper .

I completely disagree, but that wasn't my point anyway.

My point is that Metcalf trashed talked with a HOF wide receiver by calling him "lil boy", a "washed up wannabe" and that he could "wipe my ____ with yours." Those are classic T.O. type responses. I don't care how right or wrong the criticism is, Metcalf's response was inexcusable.

It's nice that Metcalf has recognized his problem and has sought help, but that doesn't mean that it's behind him. You can't say with any degree of assurance that he's not going to turn out like T.O. Only time will tell.

[NorthHawk]

That seems to be the question with WRs as a whole though.
For some reason that position attracts that type of personality.

[Aseahawkfan]

Terrell Owens or Larry Fitzgerald. Which wide receiver is DK going to be more like?

I was pretty disappointed in Metcalf's reaction to criticism by Shannon Sharpe about his failure to step out of bounds against the Steelers last fall. That was a T.O. move.

But that's not what I'm worried about.

DK doesn't seem like either one to me. He just seems like a guy trying to build some kind of name for himself in the NFL with a whole lot of talent. Hopefully he gets it figured out without losing it. Given his physical measurables, his testosterone levels are probably off the charts naturally. He will need to learn to moderate his aggression.

[Hawktawk]

That seems to be the question with WRs as a whole though.
For some reason that position attracts that type of personality.

Between Rodgers and Russ and Murray and Deshawn etc looks like the QB position is pretty much the same anymore .

[Hawktawk]

Terrell Owens or Larry Fitzgerald. Which wide receiver is DK going to be more like?

I was pretty disappointed in Metcalf's reaction to criticism by Shannon Sharpe about his failure to step out of bounds against the Steelers last fall. That was a T.O. move.

But that's not what I'm worried about.

Baloney . It was a DK Metcalf move and he almost had it if the guy doesn’t punch it out . I’ve watched it numerous times . Neither of the 2 guys bracketing him expected him to try it . He never gave away the sideline and had cleared the first guy completely and the second guy punched out the ball which might have ended the game . A great defensive play because he’s not wrapping up DK either cause if DK is even he’s leaving . . I’ll never fault a great player trying to make a great play against a team that wound up with 55 sacks , 5 on Geno . Trying to end it right there . In the end it didn’t matter . Same mentality as running 90 yards to tackle a guy on the 2 .

He’s not TO . He’s in counseling on his own accord . He’s not Fitzgerald . Nobody is. He’s in camp , not demanding a trade like his former Qb or all these prima Donna guys except him . He’s a keeper .

I completely disagree, but that wasn't my point anyway.

My point is that Metcalf trashed talked with a HOF wide receiver by calling him "lil boy", a "washed up wannabe" and that he could "wipe my ____ with yours." Those are classic T.O. type responses. I don't care how right or wrong the criticism is, Metcalf's response was inexcusable.

It's nice that Metcalf has recognized his problem and has sought help, but that doesn't mean that it's behind him. You can't say with any degree of assurance that he's not going to turn out like T.O. Only time will tell.[/quote]

What’s Metcalf ? 24 years old ? He disagreed with you and Sharpe. Immature isn’t TO and DK would kick Sharpes ass in a foot race or a fistfight . He was trying to win the game . Didn’t bother me .

Loved sharp as a player but he annoys the F out of me as a talking head anyway.

[RiverDog]

What’s Metcalf ? 24 years old ? He disagreed with you and Sharpe. Immature isn’t TO and DK would kick Sharpes ass in a foot race or a fistfight . He was trying to win the game . Didn’t bother me .

Loved sharp as a player but he annoys the F out of me as a talking head anyway.

So now you're making excuses for Metcalf's behavior? "Only" 24 years old?

If it were just some random player getting on Twitter and calling him out, that would be one thing. But Sharpe was being paid to give his expert opinion on the game and specifically on Metcalf's brain fart. He was asked to give his take. Secondly, Sharpe is Metcalf's elder by nearly 30 years. I don't know about you, but It annoys the hell out of me when some snot nosed kid fails to respect an elder. And lastly, Sharpe is a HOF'er. Those last two facts alone should be enough for Metcalf to bow his head, say "Yes, sir" and STFU.

As far as Metcalf being able to beat Sharpe in a fistfight, I wouldn't be so sure. Metcalf might look like Tarzan, but he blocks like Jane. Sharpe played as an inline tight end. I certainly wouldn't want to lay any money on the outcome.

[tarlhawk]

Why is maturity of DK even an issue? Pete handles discipline very well without quenching a players fiery passion. Many disliked Sherman for his passionate jawing of opposing WRs but it elevated his play and fans loved the results. These are passionate alpha males with huge egos ...and you want to soften them? The coach bears the responsibility of keeping things from getting "out of hand" and the NFL has stiff fines to temper players emotions if they feel the coach needs their "help".

[Hawktawk]

Shannon’s Brother Sterling who played for the Pack was a total Jack wagon with everybody including the sports media . So he got a little of his own medicine . Wrong decision by DK? Sure but for the right reason and if the guy doesn’t punch the ball he scores in my opinion or has a great chance .Not sure where you get DK doesn’t block . From the moment he ran down Baker I was sold , perhaps the greatest example of hustle , desire and freak speed for a man that size I’ve ever seen . He’s a keeper whether he trashed Sharpe or not .

[RiverDog]

Shannon’s Brother Sterling who played for the Pack was a total Jack wagon with everybody including the sports media . So he got a little of his own medicine . Wrong decision by DK? Sure but for the right reason and if the guy doesn’t punch the ball he scores in my opinion or has a great chance .Not sure where you get DK doesn’t block . From the moment he ran down Baker I was sold , perhaps the greatest example of hustle , desire and freak speed for a man that size I’ve ever seen . He’s a keeper whether he trashed Sharpe or not .

Hawktalk, I get it. You think that Metcalf's decision to turn upfield instead of stepping out of bounds was the right move. I don't, and neither does any of the analysts I've heard commenting on that play. Let's the two of us quit wasting time on that point because we'll never agree.

I get that DK doesn't block by watching the games. I haven't seen him throw a decent block in three years. I can think of one situation in particular where he completely whiffed on a critical 3rd or 4th down as we talked about the wisdom of the play design asking him to block on a LB. If you find a decent block that Metcalf threw in any game over the past 3 years, please note the game and quarter and I'll look at it.

I'm not sure how Sterling's being a jackwagon relates to Shannon getting some of his own medicine. Are all brothers personalities alike? How does Shannon deserve Sterling's medicine?

I also don't disagree that Metcalf is a "keeper" or that he's a freakish athlete. He is. But as I keep saying, it's not so much about the player as it is the position and what we'd be paying for 2 WR's.

[tarlhawk]

DK Metcalf and Tyler Lockett with Noah Fant and the "untapped" Dee Eskridge...are essential playmakers that will elevate our offense with whoever wins the starting QB role. DK isn't a good run blocker? Has Rashaad Penny been affected...is he complaining?
...*sound of cricketts*

[RiverDog]

DK isn't a good run blocker? Has Rashaad Penny been affected...is he complaining?...*sound of cricketts*

I don't understand your logic. Are you saying that because one of Metcalf's teammates isn't complaining about his blocking that it must follow that he's a good blocker?

To be honest, there hasn't been very many occasions where Metcalf, or for that matter, any of our other WR's have been called upon to do a lot of blocking, so outside of that one play this season where he whiffed (and I can't remember which game it was), there's not a ton of evidence one way or another as to his blocking ability.

[Hawktawk]

DK isn't a good run blocker? Has Rashaad Penny been affected...is he complaining?...*sound of cricketts*

I don't understand your logic. Are you saying that because one of Metcalf's teammates isn't complaining about his blocking that it must follow that he's a good blocker?

To be honest, there hasn't been very many occasions where Metcalf, or for that matter, any of our other WR's have been called upon to do a lot of blocking, so outside of that one play this season where he whiffed (and I can't remember which game it was), there's not a ton of evidence one way or another as to his blocking ability.[/quote]
He’s usually burning someone on his route . Unfortunately one guy had issues finding him . Someone must have been blocking a little for Penney but he really doesn’t need an elite line or much of a crease .

[Hawktawk]

DK Metcalf and Tyler Lockett with Noah Fant and the "untapped" Dee Eskridge...are essential playmakers that will elevate our offense with whoever wins the starting QB role. DK isn't a good run blocker? Has Rashaad Penny been affected...is he complaining?
...*sound of cricketts*

This right here ^^^with our wideouts and Penney and Fant and Eskridge ( baby Harvin) we’re gonna shock the world baby

[tarlhawk]

The problem isn't' not being able to draft good players, it's being unwilling to pony up on payday. We let too many good player become great players for other team on their second and third contracts.

Well its the price that's paid when an NFL team bucks the "odds" and maintains a winning streak. The NFL wants all its cities to enjoy prosperity so it evens out the chances by utilizing salary cap and draft distribution as its two main tools to keep too many teams from achieving "dynasty" status. Teams that always win and teams that always lose are an anathema to television ratings. Those that always win gain distractors looking to find reasons to hate...surely they must be "cheating the system" someway...while those who constantly lose are seen as pathetic...there must be an ulterior excuse for their losing.

We just finished a season of chaos as a chain of unforseen events exposed our weakened talent base and rattled the nerves of our high strung coach as well as our confident QB who already had gathered a wanderlust. We benefit from the same forces that kept us down while we were piling up wins. We lost two key yet very expensive parts of our team's winning legacy thus we free up salary cap and gain remedy through additional draft capital and better desired draft positioning (our new draft positions based on our losing record has us selecting ahead of 2/3 of the NFL every round).

Second contracts are where the true salary impacting finances occur and our GM has been very selective with contracts that begin to "tie his hands".

[tarlhawk]

I don't understand your logic. Are you saying that because one of Metcalf's teammates isn't complaining about his blocking that it must follow that he's a good blocker?

No...not at all...what I was saying was that's an area DK can improve on. My mentioning of Rashaad Penny was that running backs who are good at breaking tackles are not as reliant on a WR who also excels at good run blocking. Its a nice edge for a running play to benefit from well executed WR blocks but DK excels in most other facets of being an elite WR...so why make it sound important?

[RiverDog]

No...not at all...what I was saying was that's (blocking) an area DK can improve on. My mentioning of Rashaad Penny was that running backs who are good at breaking tackles are not as reliant on a WR who also excels at good run blocking. Its a nice edge for a running play to benefit from well executed WR blocks but DK excels in most other facets of being an elite WR...so why make it sound important?

I'm not making it "sound so important". That's why my last post included this comment: To be honest, there hasn't been very many occasions where Metcalf, or for that matter, any of our other WR's have been called upon to do a lot of blocking..."

It's probably the least important of WR attributes, but it is still important. If Eskridge is to contribute with jet sweeps and bubble screens as that would seem to be his forte, it would be nice if we had WR's that can and want to block.

[tarlhawk]

I see your valid point RD. Consider this...Dk on a clearing out go route can often drag two would be tacklers away from the play due to the focus/attention he draws.

[RiverDog]

I see your valid point RD. Consider this...Dk on a clearing out go route can often drag two would be tacklers away from the play due to the focus/attention he draws.

It's probably not going to happen on quick hitters like jet sweeps or bubble screens.

But like Hawktalk, you're missing my point. Regardless of the issues I have with Metcalf, I'm not saying that he isn't a top 5 receiver. To the contrary, I think that he's an incredible talent with HOF potential. But as I keep saying, my argument is more about the position than it is the player. Wide receivers are a dime a dozen. It doesn't require a world class athlete in order to excel at the position.

Answer me this very simple question: Who was the top receiver in the NFL last season?

[Aseahawkfan]

But like Hawktalk, you're missing my point. Regardless of the issues I have with Metcalf, I'm not saying that he isn't a top 5 receiver. To the contrary, I think that he's an incredible talent with HOF potential. But as I keep saying, my argument is more about the position than it is the player. Wide receivers are a dime a dozen. It doesn't require a world class athlete in order to excel at the position.

Answer me this very simple question: Who was the top receiver in the NFL last season?

I don't think they're a dime a dozen. But in the modern salary cap era, definitely a luxury.

When I was growing up having an elite receiver was one of the building blocks of an elite team. There are a ton of great dynasties with elite receivers like Jerry Rice in Frisco and Michael Irvin for Dallas back in the 90s. But that was when teams could spend away to keep all their players. You could have an elite player at nearly every position back in those days and afford it.

Not so now. I think the elite WR making huge money is one of those positions that if you have to make a choice to pay your elite DT versus your elite WR, you pay the DT. Money is very limited now and salaries are going up.

I'm good keeping Metcalf if we get some cheap QB that can use him well. But if it came down to paying some amazing CB or D-lineman versus paying DK, I'd pay the CB or lineman and pick up some Wes Welkers or another Tyler Lockett.

[RiverDog]

I don't think they're a dime a dozen. But in the modern salary cap era, definitely a luxury.

When I was growing up having an elite receiver was one of the building blocks of an elite team. There are a ton of great dynasties with elite receivers like Jerry Rice in Frisco and Michael Irvin for Dallas back in the 90s. But that was when teams could spend away to keep all their players. You could have an elite player at nearly every position back in those days and afford it.

Not so now. I think the elite WR making huge money is one of those positions that if you have to make a choice to pay your elite DT versus your elite WR, you pay the DT. Money is very limited now and salaries are going up.

I'm good keeping Metcalf if we get some cheap QB that can use him well. But if it came down to paying some amazing CB or D-lineman versus paying DK, I'd pay the CB or lineman and pick up some Wes Welkers or another Tyler Lockett.

The salary cap implications are just one factor in the trade Metcalf equation. The other is what we could get for him in a trade, so I would add to your "I'm good keeping him" statement the qualifier if we can't get a blockbuster deal with multiple first round draft picks.

[tarlhawk]

Answer me this very simple question: Who was the top receiver in the NFL last season?

Cooper Kupp in almost all receiving categories as the "go-to" WR for Matt Stafford.

The one thing you should consider is this...the NFL has adjusted rules over past 10 years to open up offensive play at the expense of defensive play...no greater positions have benefited from this than the QB and WR positions. We were spoiled having the most accurate deep ball passer in RW coupled with two elite WRs (DK and Lockett)...We lost RW but our QB (whoever wins their competition) will have a huge edge with our existing playmakers (the draft may add a WR and RB as well). Both Lock and Geno have plus arm strength to utilize our play makers and coupled with a balanced rushing attack from Rashaad Penny...we can only get better.

[RiverDog]

Answer me this very simple question: Who was the top receiver in the NFL last season?

Cooper Kupp in almost all receiving categories as the "go-to" WR for Matt Stafford.

The one thing you should consider is this...the NFL has adjusted rules over past 10 years to open up offensive play at the expense of defensive play...no greater positions have benefited from this than the QB and WR positions. We were spoiled having the most accurate deep ball passer in RW coupled with two elite WRs (DK and Lockett)...We lost RW but our QB (whoever wins their competition) will have a huge edge with our existing playmakers (the draft may add a WR and RB as well). Both Lock and Geno have plus arm strength to utilize our play makers and coupled with a balanced rushing attack from Rashaad Penny...we can only get better.

Yeah, no brainer question, huh?

Kupp's 40 time was 4.62. The average 40 time for an NFL receiver is 4.50. He's a sloth. Not only that, but he's far from being considered a physical specimen. His agent didn't suggest that he go shirtless to meet his head coach for the first time. There's no need for me to waste time belaboring the point as I think you get my drift.

I understand all of what you are saying and agree with some, if not most of it. There's a lot of potential out there, as there is with a lot of NFL teams. But that's not the point of the OP.

[tarlhawk]

Cooper Kupp may not "fit" the traditional "elite" WR mold but his skill set is maximized by his offensive minded coach and Kupp is unique with abundant football IQ which allows him to dissect what a defense is trying to do...he is quick to recognize an opponents defensive game plan and make quick route adjustments to help keep his QB from hesitating on his throws.

DK is very young and still learning from experience how to adjust routes and recognize what the Defense is trying to do to him. Tyler Lockett already displays a keen situational awareness and has quickness (and speed) to exploit it.

DK shares targets with Tyler a lot...where Kupp is heavily targeted as more of the feature WR...DO NOT trade DK...these next 2 years (2022/2023) have excellent draft capital with 2023 providing maximum flexible cap space to re-sign/attract free agents (ours and from outside our organization).

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

No, it doesn’t take a world class athlete to succeed at WR, but the Kooper Kupps of the world aren’t a dime a dozen either. Is DK worth the massive contract value he’ll require and will it be a driver in winning hopefully the whole thing? If he is, keep him. Bird in hand and the devil you know thing. If he’s not, then you trade him for the right price.

My vote is keep him especially since a young quarterback is likely in the mix. I don’t believe the FO is conceding that they are in full rebuild and don’t intend to compete next season.

[RiverDog]

Cooper Kupp may not "fit" the traditional "elite" WR mold but his skill set is maximized by his offensive minded coach and Kupp is unique with abundant football IQ which allows him to dissect what a defense is trying to do...he is quick to recognize an opponents defensive game plan and make quick route adjustments to help keep his QB from hesitating on his throws.

DK is very young and still learning from experience how to adjust routes and recognize what the Defense is trying to do to him. Tyler Lockett already displays a keen situational awareness and has quickness (and speed) to exploit it.

DK shares targets with Tyler a lot...where Kupp is heavily targeted as more of the feature WR...DO NOT trade DK...these next 2 years (2022/2023) have excellent draft capital with 2023 providing maximum flexible cap space to re-sign/attract free agents (ours and from outside our organization).

I agree with your assessment of Kupp, but I don't agree that he is by any means unique. Just looking at our own team history, we've had a number of receivers that have fit that exact mold, starting with Steve Largent and continuing with Bobby Engram, Doug Baldwin, and Jermaine Kearse. Julian Edleman ran a sub 4.50 40. Larry Fitzgerald ran a very average 4.50. It's not that uncommon. Bottom line is that speed isn't the most important attribute for a great wide receiver.

As far as Metcalf goes, he has a ton of potential but he has a long ways to go, especially mentally. If we had most of the pieces in place to do a quick rebuild and we could afford him, I'd be all for retaining him. Unfortunately neither of those conditions are true IMO.

[RiverDog]

No, it doesn’t take a world class athlete to succeed at WR, but the Kooper Kupps of the world aren’t a dime a dozen either. Is DK worth the massive contract value he’ll require and will it be a driver in winning hopefully the whole thing? If he is, keep him. Bird in hand and the devil you know thing. If he’s not, then you trade him for the right price.

My vote is keep him especially since a young quarterback is likely in the mix. I don’t believe the FO is conceding that they are in full rebuild and don’t intend to compete next season.

Let me correct myself on the "a dime a dozen" comment. Good wide receivers are a dime a dozen. Great ones aren't.

Wide receiver is the easiest position to fill as it isn't as dependent on measurables as other positions are, which explains the 'dime a dozen' moniker. For example, quarterbacks that can't get the ball out accurately and with velocity within a certain time aren't likely to succeed (think Tim Tebow). An offensive tackle with a short reach and small hands isn't likely to cut it. WR is a finesse position that requires a certain set of intangibles to succeed.

The joke about HOF'er Bullet Bob Hayes, at one time the fastest man alive, was that he had 9.1 speed and 10 flat hands.

[NorthHawk]

The College game is producing more good WRs because of the devaluation of the running game. There are far more spread type Offenses than ever and this draws
better coaching along with attracting better athletes to the position. I would think that this years 2nd round WR's would have been high 1st round options 15
years ago, it's changed that much. So getting a good WR shouldn't be very difficult. Getting the exceptional WR will always be difficult as it is with every
position.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Still playing to long odds to get a game breaker (I suppose that’s with any player.) And it takes a the right roster for average to good wide receivers to have success, namely great defense and a running game. Trading Metcalf says you don’t have an expectations to compete in the short term.

[Hawktawk]

Still playing to long odds to get a game breaker (I suppose that’s with any player.) And it takes a the right roster for average to good wide receivers to have success, namely great defense and a running game. Trading Metcalf says you don’t have an expectations to compete in the short term.

Exactly which isn’t the plan , it’s been made clear . Pete isnt trading an icon and tanking , at least on purpose and they have some nice pieces around whoever starts .
There’s one DK in the league . And can we be quiet about how Kupp is some physically pedestrian guy that can’t run that isn’t quick but somehow led the league in everything. He ran 4.6. Rice ran 4.6. Marcus Allen ran 4.6. All were handy to have around , turned out pretty good . He beat Tampa taking the top off . Faster than you think . There’s guys that run as fast in pads as they do in track clothes . It’s called football speed . Nobody in the league has DKs ceiling and he’s our guy , we stole him and he’s “all in “ as Jody would say . Someone will love throwing to him . Waldron will be happy to see the play calls get run the way they are supposed to be run .

[Aseahawkfan]

No, it doesn’t take a world class athlete to succeed at WR, but the Kooper Kupps of the world aren’t a dime a dozen either. Is DK worth the massive contract value he’ll require and will it be a driver in winning hopefully the whole thing? If he is, keep him. Bird in hand and the devil you know thing. If he’s not, then you trade him for the right price.

My vote is keep him especially since a young quarterback is likely in the mix. I don’t believe the FO is conceding that they are in full rebuild and don’t intend to compete next season.

Intentions don't mean much. That's the part I don't get with this talk. It's obvious this is a rebuild. It's also obvious any NFL team will try to compete in any given year no matter who is on their team. No one trots a team on the field that isn't playing as hard as they can.

But if your horses are weaker than the opposing teams, and make no mistake our horses can't run as hard as other teams, then you aren't gonna win until your horses get a whole lot stronger and better through the draft and free agency. Right now we don't have the athletes to win it all. Not sure why you think we do or are even close.

Rams have guys like Donald and Kupp as anchors for their key units. 49ers have Bosa and Kittle. If we go over the rosters of NFL teams, our roster is on the weaker end.

Every year including last year the team competes to win. They have done so every year under Pete Carroll including when he first arrived in 2010. I have zero belief Carroll doesn't compete all out every single year regardless of where the team is in its development. But if you don't have the athletes to win because the other team is better, no amount of coaching or scheming is going to change that.

At the NFL level, talent at key positions trumps coaching, scheme, or just about anything else. Once you get the talent to a relatively equal level, then the other factors start to play in to the win-loss record and playoff competition. Right now we have a huge a talent deficit hopefully we will reduce after this draft.

[Aseahawkfan]

Exactly which isn’t the plan , it’s been made clear . Pete isnt trading an icon and tanking , at least on purpose and they have some nice pieces around whoever starts .
There’s one DK in the league . And can we be quiet about how Kupp is some physically pedestrian guy that can’t run that isn’t quick but somehow led the league in everything. He ran 4.6. Rice ran 4.6. Marcus Allen ran 4.6. All were handy to have around , turned out pretty good . He beat Tampa taking the top off . Faster than you think . There’s guys that run as fast in pads as they do in track clothes . It’s called football speed . Nobody in the league has DKs ceiling and he’s our guy , we stole him and he’s “all in “ as Jody would say . Someone will love throwing to him . Waldron will be happy to see the play calls get run the way they are supposed to be run .

No one said Pete was tanking. I have never seen a team publicly admit to tanking even during a rebuild. We're in a rebuild because we traded away our franchise QB, let our veteran MLB and defensive leader go, changed DCs, and don't have a solid playoff competitive team in place.

That in no way means the head coach is tanking. Some of you guys and your thought processes when it comes to rebuilding are strange. Any NFL team is always trying their best to win. Always.

But if they don't have the talent, then you end up losing. A rebuild is nothing more than a team that has to replenish its talent to reach a competitive level again. That's where we're at.

You never, ever teach NFL players to do anything but their best. I can't think of a HC that would do otherwise, not a single one.

So a rebuild in no way means the team won't compete as hard as they can. It's literally the only way you find out if the players you drafted or signed will form a competitive playoff team.