Hawks to Resign Geno

[RiverDog]

My argument is based on stats = facts . Go at my facts . Whether it’s Genos 68.5 % completion % or Wilson’s 6-8 losing to 3 backups worst third down completion% in the league . Or any other stats I quote from this year . Those are stats. It’s not 2014 anymore ,.nobody wants to talk stats and facts . Just scream in defense of a guy who trashed the FO and left .

So you want to talk facts and stats? Here's some for you to spin:

Geno's career completion percentage is 58.8%. He has thrown more career interceptions, 37, than he has touchdowns, 34. He is 13-21 as a starter, including 1-2 with us.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... itGe00.htm

So now go ahead and spin those facts, tell us how they don't count, how that very small sample size you're using of a little over 3 games, including some inflated numbers from having incorporated within them a game against the worst team in the league, is so much more relevant than his previous 7 seasons.

[Aseahawkfan]

My argument is based on stats = facts . Go at my facts . Whether it’s Genos 68.5 % completion % or Wilson’s 6-8 losing to 3 backups worst third down completion% in the league . Or any other stats I quote from this year . Those are stats. It’s not 2014 anymore ,.nobody wants to talk stats and facts . Just scream in defense of a guy who trashed the FO and left .

No it isn't. I have already pointed out Geno went 1 and 2. He threw for 4 total Tds in those games and still lost 2 of them. You're building this up like it's some kind of playoff resume and it isn't.

You're not basing jack squat on facts. Just taking anecdotal evidence (what people said which is not a fact at all) and your personal bias and spinning it into way more than it is.

You falling back on this "facts" argument is ridiculous. Almost your entire argument is based on anecdote and hearsay. "Pete said this" which is not a fact. The stats are the stats which show he went 1 and 2 and threw for four TDs, which you are building up into some world beating starter argument and it's pretty far from the truth.

[Hawktawk]

My argument is based on stats = facts . Go at my facts . Whether it’s Genos 68.5 % completion % or Wilson’s 6-8 losing to 3 backups worst third down completion% in the league . Or any other stats I quote from this year . Those are stats. It’s not 2014 anymore ,.nobody wants to talk stats and facts . Just scream in defense of a guy who trashed the FO and left .

So you want to talk facts and stats? Here's some for you to spin:

Geno's career completion percentage is 58.8%. He has thrown more career interceptions, 37, than he has touchdowns, 34. He is 13-21 as a starter, including 1-2 with us.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... itGe00.htm

So now go ahead and spin those facts, tell us how they don't count, how that very small sample size you're using of a little over 3 games, including some inflated numbers from having incorporated within them a game against the worst team in the league, is so much more relevant than his previous 7 seasons.

I’ve said till I’m blue in the goddamn face if he’s the guy he’s been his whole career he sucks and really shouldn’t be on a roster . I didn’t know why he was on a roster , particularly ours but I figured WTF Russ never gets hurt they are saving money . But clearly he outperformed those statistics by 1000% in Seattle and Pete and I noticed and I said so months ago . Saying a 31-7 win in the league is nothing sounds idiotic. Not to mention he completed 72% against Pittsburgh in his first start in 5 years with TJ watt in the backfield more than our running backs . Scored on 4 of 5 drives on the road to get to overtime which is the first 2 minute drive at a game end I recall . Only one this year and it was in Genos first start in 5 years on the road .

Pete agrees with me it was a good job by Geno so all you armchair experts think what you want . I’d love to have seen a couple more while everybodys favorite Bronco actually got healthy . Maybe we wouldn’t disagree about anything . Worst mistake Carroll made all year .

[tarlhawk]

So now go ahead and spin those facts, tell us how they don't count, how that very small sample size you're using of a little over 3 games, including some inflated numbers from having incorporated within them a game against the worst team in the league, is so much more relevant than his previous 7 seasons.

Career stats don't mean as much if they refer to a different team once played for...QBs need good coaching to attain a certain comfort with a team's playbook. Baptism under fire can elevate or destroy the confidence of a QB...even a few seconds of hesitation can kill opportunity allowing an opponents pass rush to deliver hit after hit. Having a "balanced" offense and elite play makers can elevate any NFL caliber QB with above average skills...time and opportunity mean everything to the potential of a QB.
The O-line performs much better as it gets a feel for who is calling the shots. The biggest aid to a QB who already possesses good skills is CONFIDENCE. Geno and Drew can both excel in a wide spread zone offense typical of Waldron's playbook influence. Many of Drews scouting reports boasted of him having "plus" skills...with a caveat warning that his college coaching was suspect and in need of some good coaching upon his NFL arrival. Geno has the edge and Drew has similar skills...the winner of their competition will be given time and opportunity to foster confidence.

[Aseahawkfan]

I’ve said till I’m blue in the goddamn face if he’s the guy he’s been his whole career he sucks and really shouldn’t be on a roster . I didn’t know why he was on a roster , particularly ours but I figured WTF Russ never gets hurt they are saving money . But clearly he outperformed those statistics by 1000% in Seattle and Pete and I noticed and I said so months ago . Saying a 31-7 win in the league is nothing sounds idiotic. Not to mention he completed 72% against Pittsburgh in his first start in 5 years with TJ watt in the backfield more than our running backs . Scored on 4 of 5 drives on the road to get to overtime which is the first 2 minute drive at a game end I recall . Only one this year and it was in Genos first start in 5 years on the road .

Pete agrees with me it was a good job by Geno so all you armchair experts think what you want . I’d love to have seen a couple more while everybodys favorite Bronco actually got healthy . Maybe we wouldn’t disagree about anything . Worst mistake Carroll made all year .

Pete agreeing with you is not a fact. That's opinion you're trying to claim as a fact. I could find Pete agreeing with people who thought Tarvaris could be a starter or that Bruce Irvin was going to be a great Leo pass rusher or that Matt Flynn was the answer at QB. Who cares what Pete thinks given he always spins everything positive and makes everyone sound like a superstar. He could bring some guy in he met at 7 11 to try for RB and spin it so he thought this guy was the next Marshawn Lynch. Pete's opinion isn't very worthwhile given his opinions only go in one direction: positive.

[Hawktawk]

I’ve said till I’m blue in the goddamn face if he’s the guy he’s been his whole career he sucks and really shouldn’t be on a roster . I didn’t know why he was on a roster , particularly ours but I figured WTF Russ never gets hurt they are saving money . But clearly he outperformed those statistics by 1000% in Seattle and Pete and I noticed and I said so months ago . Saying a 31-7 win in the league is nothing sounds idiotic. Not to mention he completed 72% against Pittsburgh in his first start in 5 years with TJ watt in the backfield more than our running backs . Scored on 4 of 5 drives on the road to get to overtime which is the first 2 minute drive at a game end I recall . Only one this year and it was in Genos first start in 5 years on the road .

Pete agrees with me it was a good job by Geno so all you armchair experts think what you want . I’d love to have seen a couple more while everybodys favorite Bronco actually got healthy . Maybe we wouldn’t disagree about anything . Worst mistake Carroll made all year .

Pete agreeing with you is not a fact. That's opinion you're trying to claim as a fact. I could find Pete agreeing with people who thought Tarvaris could be a starter or that Bruce Irvin was going to be a great Leo pass rusher or that Matt Flynn was the answer at QB. Who cares what Pete thinks given he always spins everything positive and makes everyone sound like a superstar. He could bring some guy in he met at 7 11 to try for RB and spin it so he thought this guy was the next Marshawn Lynch. Pete's opinion isn't very worthwhile given his opinions only go in one direction: positive.

You forget he came right off his 20 million QB Flynn when he saw Wilson . “ he doesn’t have his checkbook on the field “.

But the fact is this year Geno completed 3.5% more of his passes , was far more in synch with DK and relatively turnover free. He moved the chains , used the field , took the check downs . I’m sure his time of possession was better . And he played against 3 filthy defenses and 4 starting QBs and the bad team gave up 6 to the bills the week after we beat them 31-7.
Pete and I agree on this one . We’re in agreement this off-season .

[NorthHawk]

The problems with backups is they can do well for a short time, but also they can't elevate their game when needed to win.
That's why they are backups. They're just a hand on the tiller until someone better can be found.

[tarlhawk]

The problems with backups is they can do well for a short time, but also they can't elevate their game when needed to win.
That's why they are backups. They're just a hand on the tiller until someone better can be found.

A fair assessment of what a Back-up/Bridge QB role is...but back-ups playing behind elite QB can be of a different breed when given true opportunity. Drew Lock being younger may have greater opportunity to "improve" while Geno has sustained the "hand dealt to his career. Waldron's offensive game plan may highlight the strengths of both of these competing QB. Talent and opportunity yields confidence that can unlock favorable results...no use being a naysayer until the future is revealed/played out.

[NorthHawk]

True, if Waldron is permitted to put in his full Offense.
Schottenheimer was held back when he opened it up and Pete says he wants a “point guard” at
QB with a dominant run game. If Waldron follows the Rams plan, it won’t mesh with Pete Ball
so I have little confidence things will change very much if at all.

[Hawktawk]

I saw wide open guys every game that weren’t seen or just not targeted . The McVeigh /Waldron offense is designed to get someone open every play . Lots of times it’s between the hashes . We weren’t throwing there last year . As I say that offense put Goff in a super bowl . I’m aware he has a golden arm but imo zero football intelligence . Both Geno and Locke are strong armed first read stick it in there QBs. It’s how they played in college . I watched 10 minutes of Locke highlights and never saw him spin out of the pocket . They don’t show the lowlights of course but he would take the drop and whap and the dude has half again Wilson’s 33 year old arm and Russ still has a powerful arm . I think there’s gonna be some people surprised how it shakes out . I truly hope they can coach up Locke . He’s Josh Allen with a bigger arm and probably not the confidence . But if he figures it out he could be that QBOTF right there .

[NorthHawk]

No Offense matters except Pete Ball. It won’t matter if it’s Bill Walsh’s WCO or Air Coryell,
if it doesn’t follow Pete’s view it won’t be run in his Offense.

I’m wondering if he really understands offense. He seems to be comfortable making changes on Defense
but wants his Offense to be run within specific parameters. This suggests he doesn’t understand how
today’s Offenses work and is fearful of change.

[Hawktawk]

Let’s see . We’ve broke training camp with Russ for ten years which it just amazes me how quick it went . I completely disagree Carrol doesn’t know offense of defense or anything . He’s as much a hall of fame coach as Russ is a player . We won a super bowl with Bevell calling Pete ball with a Russel friendly twist read option pistol formation . The more we have gotten away from it the worse we have done and it fell off a cliff last year . Russ basically refused to run. In the second Rams game they were keying on the back and ignoring the threat of Wilson and he didn’t take it. Last 2 games he ran a lot . I think his improved play late helped his trade value or possibly even made it possible . It bears noting Penney was running wild last 6 weeks . Also fair to point out Geno didn’t have Penney starting in any of his appearances . Let’s see what goes down . We stunk with Russ last year . Let’s see if Pete has one more run in him.

[tarlhawk]

No Offense matters except Pete Ball. It won’t matter if it’s Bill Walsh’s WCO or Air Coryell,
if it doesn’t follow Pete’s view it won’t be run in his Offense.

"Pete Ball" is not necessarily contrary to a Waldron run offense. Pete Carroll demands caution against high risk throws from his QB. His use of the "point guard" description is accurate...don't be the hero...put the ball in the hands of our play makers and trust the play called and the scheme being used to provide a quick read target.

If the QB sees/recognizes lazy coverage match-up then audibles out of a called play ...this can be realized as trust is gained. RW wasn't bombs away from the get go...he earned Pete's trust to audible out...but that trust wasn't earned over night. Respect between a QB and his head coach is dual edged with the hilt held by the coach. Waldron's schemes once fully implemented will be a wide stance...heavy on zone assignments for the O-line...and utilizing running/receiving options from similar alignments and motion.

Pete wants offensive balance to keep the chains moving with the run % based on opponent's revealed defensive game plan and its effectiveness. If the running game is "rolling" and allowing us to dictate field position then Waldron can customize on the fly.

Pete's strength and love has been defensive tilted and low risk distribution of offensive plays that keep time of possession friendly (chains moving) and prevent unnecessary turnovers from giving our defense the "short end" of the field is what he expects from the offense.

He is sharpening the defensive side of our team with recent hires/promotions to form a collective "school of thought" on achieving his goals of a smash mouth punishing defense. Draft selections on defense don't have to be wild guesses...Hitting Assassins with enough football IQ to avoid excessive penalties are highly sought after...if they have an interviewed/observed "chip on their shoulder" as well....then scouting "bells" start sounding.

[Hawktawk]

That’s what I’m talking about. I think the defense is going to be much better next season. I think if Penney stays healthy we will be running at will. Big if but it’s true . If Geno can be a 102 Qbr 68.5 completion guy with that home run hitter behind him and 2 more at the wideout position look out . If Locke could flip the switch it would be even better IMO. Fine with either . Let’s see what happens in the draft . I’m enthusiastic about the future near and far .

[NorthHawk]

Even if Penny is healthy, the OL is in flux so we don't know how it will work out.
Currently we don't have any quality OT's (experience wise) and with Pete's comments earlier it would seem RG might change as well.
So once again we will have at least 3 spots on the OL that are different from last year. Without Duane Brown or maybe Eric Fisher signed
at OT, it would seem that the draft is to fill at least one of those OT spots. If Jackson is let go then expect Lewis to move back to RG
and that would mean an OL from left to right of Brown/Fisher-- Haynes/draft pick -- Blythe/draft pick -- Lewis -- Draft pick/Curhan/FA.
Any way you look at it the OL will be different so it's quite uncertain how well they will play.

We've been going through this OL BS for the past 8 years and it has not been fixed, so it's pretty hard to have faith that it will be this year.

[RiverDog]

Even if Penny is healthy, the OL is in flux so we don't know how it will work out.
Currently we don't have any quality OT's (experience wise) and with Pete's comments earlier it would seem RG might change as well.
So once again we will have at least 3 spots on the OL that are different from last year. Without Duane Brown or maybe Eric Fisher signed
at OT, it would seem that the draft is to fill at least one of those OT spots. If Jackson is let go then expect Lewis to move back to RG
and that would mean an OL from left to right of Brown/Fisher-- Haynes/draft pick -- Blythe/draft pick -- Lewis -- Draft pick/Curhan/FA.
Any way you look at it the OL will be different so it's quite uncertain how well they will play.

We've been going through this OL BS for the past 8 years and it has not been fixed, so it's pretty hard to have faith that it will be this year.

That's why harboring any large degree of optimism at this point of the year is more wishful thinking or blind faith than it is based on any kind of reality. Not only do we not know who our quarterback is going to be, we don't know who's going to line up in front of him.

[Hawktawk]

Give Penney 15 or 20 touches a game and the line doesn’t matter . He’s the most patient runner we’ve had since SA and he sets up blocks , helps his linemen . Great vision then bang through the crease and home .

He also has Phil Haynes the road grading guard back . Dave Wyman said he was the best linemen on the team at years end and that many of Penney’s long runs were off his blocks . Of course Wyman also said hi thought Geno could start . Nobody wants to hear it I get that but he played 14 years in Seattle and Denver . His comments were made before Russ was traded . I hear him every afternoon on 710 so he might influence me a bit much but I’ve got a lot of respect for him . He calls it like he sees it .

There’s talent in the building . There’s more juice in that building than maybe 2012. The coach and the GM and the owner and the PLAYERS are sick of hearing they suck , got carried by one guy , can’t play , cant draft blah blah blah blah blah .

We gonna shock the world baby . If we are solid , not spectacular at QB with the weapons we have in the back and the wideouts and not too many are looking at Fant . He is big and strong and fast . I saw a highlight where he flattened a safety and didn’t even slow down on his way for a TD. He’s suffered from QB play but another fascinating thing to me is he’s caught more of Lockes passes , 74 than any other receiver . The doubters and the league are gonna get shocked . Can’t wait to welcome Denver to town .

[NorthHawk]

Dave Wyman’s job in the media is at the pleasure of the Seattle Seahawks.
If he pisses them off he’s out the door. It’s the same with a lot of Seattle media covering
the Seahawks and that’s why nobody asks tough questions of Pete or John at press
conferences.
So don’t use cheerleaders for objective opinions.

[tarlhawk]

O-line...O-line! The O-line is groomed by the offensive coordinator in conference with the O-line Coach (with the QB and play makers in mind). Waldron/Dickerson know how the O-line finished the season as more zone blocking became evident with the emergence of our Rashaad Penny threat. Gone is Pocic and his replacement Austin Blythe is familiar with the "system" Dickerson wants to use and as a 29 yr old 7 yr vet is nowhere like throwing Kyle Fuller in to replace Pocic. His collegiate wrestling background aids his ability for hand placement just like it did when Justin Britt excelled at center. Phil Haynes finally away from the shadows of injury holding him back played solid at either guard position drawing nice PFF grades for games he "filled in" on. Damien Lewis can be returned to RG or stay at LG with a "learning year" already under his belt. Tackles are the MAJOR issue but this draft is deep in NFL capable tackles. Jake Curhan played nicely at RT for having gone undrafted and if he's replaced...makes a strong back-up still under development. LT is difficult to fill across the NFL so if we fail to get one with our first round pick...then Duane Brown who seems to love our club/city might quickly return as another year is spent grooming Stone Forsythe or a mid rd/lower rd tackle going forward. Too early to panic with our bookend tackles unsettled with off season barely underway. Whether Geno or Drew...or our "dark horse" candidate Jacob Eason win the competition at QB... Shane Waldron can then tailor/groom the playbook/scheme to highlight the strengths the winning QB brings to the table.

[RiverDog]

Dave Wyman’s job in the media is at the pleasure of the Seattle Seahawks. If he pisses them off he’s out the door. It’s the same with a lot of Seattle media covering the Seahawks and that’s why nobody asks tough questions of Pete or John at press
conferences. So don’t use cheerleaders for objective opinions.

This is true. You have to be careful when listening to or reading stories written by beat reporters. If they write an unflattering piece on a coach or player, so ends their exclusive access to them. They know which side of the bread has the butter on it. That's why I never believed all of these glowing reports out of training camp because it was all beat reporters writing the stories. That doesn't necessarily invalidate their opinions, just that you have to consider the source.

[NorthHawk]

A couple of years ago Wyman was talking about how good our Defense was going to be with
Irvin and Mayowa as starting DEs. We proceeded to be one of the worst defenses over the
first 5 games in NFL history. It in part caused the trade for Adams and the signing of Dunlap.

[Hawktawk]

Dave Wyman’s job in the media is at the pleasure of the Seattle Seahawks.
If he pisses them off he’s out the door. It’s the same with a lot of Seattle media covering
the Seahawks and that’s why nobody asks tough questions of Pete or John at press
conferences.
So don’t use cheerleaders for objective opinions.

That’s not what I hear . He was brutally honest about his opinion on Russels play , particularly bears rams and even his decision to pull down the ball with Chandler Jones unaccounted for in the blocking scheme leading to a strip 6. He also referred to Bobby as a” finesse linebacker “ at this stage of his career . Unable or uwilling to crash downhill . His comments about Geno may have pleased Pete and john but very unpopular among his listeners im sure . Dave calls it like he sees it . Mike Salk in the morning may fit your fan boy profile a bit more .

[tarlhawk]

The re-signing of Geno was important. I don't care if NO OTHER teams were beating down his door...if anything I'm glad because it gave our GM the leverage to offer Geno a team friendly contract yet give him the respect of knowing he's wanted...to either start or at the very least give Drew the needed competition to make him win the starting QB role. Even if Geno fails to win the starting role he provides valuable back-up in an advisory role and injury insurance. Both Geno and Drew can benefit from a Shane Waldon offense scheme. Russell Wilson was already high on confidence and self-motivation and made the best of given opportunities...his loss is great but now we will learn if the skill sets of our current QB room can be maximized with confidence stirred by opportunity.