Hawks to Resign Geno

[Hawktawk]

What are you talking about? No one was arguing Geno isn't a good back up.

Your argument was Geno performed better than Russell. That's just not true. We were all fine with Geno as a back up. He did well enough as a backup. We're just not into your Geno should be in there instead of Russ push.

No one was down on Geno as a backup QB. So not sure what you think we were wrong about other than not agreeing with you that Geno should be in there over Russ.

Lots of folks on this forum said he was a below average backup such as River who minimized the performance vs the Jags and his overall numbers . As for Geno vs Wilson I’ve never made an argument that Geno is a better QB than Russ in his prime .

Last year ? There is no question Wilson returned 3 weeks too early which I was dead right about as well . One of the dumbest things PC and JS did was let Wilson force his way back on the field . Coming off the backup compiling a 138 QBR with 3 TDs the very smartest thing they could have done is start Geno . You think a 98 yard drive pundits called surgical was a fluke , completing 72% of your passes in Pittsburgh in your first start in 5 years to 10 receivers , last second drive to tie despite getting the hell beat out of him was a fluke ? Saints was his worst game and he still threw a TD to DK . The amazing performance by he and the entire team vs Jax not impressive ? Ok send him out at Lambeau with the defense balling out and let’s see. We saw what we saw and I saw what Geno tweeted . “ I’d like to vent but it’s not safe “ trust me Geno I vented for you . Russ screwed you as a loyal backup who was prepared to play . He screwed all of us Asea .

See I’ve been right on the money with the whole Russell saga over the last 2 years from saying trade him a year ago to every development this year . I got it wrong when I began to believe everybody was coming back and I had been cool with it . And we will not know but certainly when Russ lost to Taylor Heinike , Colt McCoy, Nick Foles, got shut out, averaged 9 points first 3 back after Geno averaged 20 , yeah I think you could make a case we might have been better off with Geno . I understand the backup mentality ie they turn to a turd when the label starter is applied . But both our “ backup “ QBs have started . We’re just going to have to wait and see.

[Aseahawkfan]

Lots of folks on this forum said he was a below average backup such as River who minimized the performance vs the Jags and his overall numbers . As for Geno vs Wilson I’ve never made an argument that Geno is a better QB than Russ in his prime .

Last year ? There is no question Wilson returned 3 weeks too early which I was dead right about as well . One of the dumbest things PC and JS did was let Wilson force his way back on the field . Coming off the backup compiling a 138 QBR with 3 TDs the very smartest thing they could have done is start Geno . You think a 98 yard drive pundits called surgical was a fluke , completing 72% of your passes in Pittsburgh in your first start in 5 years to 10 receivers , last second drive to tie despite getting the hell beat out of him was a fluke ? Saints was his worst game and he still threw a TD to DK . The amazing performance by he and the entire team vs Jax not impressive ? Ok send him out at Lambeau with the defense balling out and let’s see. We saw what we saw and I saw what Geno tweeted . “ I’d like to vent but it’s not safe “ trust me Geno I vented for you . Russ screwed you as a loyal backup who was prepared to play . He screwed all of us Asea .

See I’ve been right on the money with the whole Russell saga over the last 2 years from saying trade him a year ago to every development this year . I got it wrong when I began to believe everybody was coming back and I had been cool with it . And we will not know but certainly when Russ lost to Taylor Heinike , Colt McCoy, Nick Foles, got shut out, averaged 9 points first 3 back after Geno averaged 20 , yeah I think you could make a case we might have been better off with Geno . I understand the backup mentality ie they turn to a turd when the label starter is applied . But both our “ backup “ QBs have started . We’re just going to have to wait and see.

At least you're stating Pete allowed Russ back on the field and it was ultimately his call, though almost every coach let's their superstar players back on the field as soon as they are cleared by the doctor.

I don't know about other posters thoughts on Geno as a backup. I had no problem and have no problem with Geno as the backup QB. He's a former starter with experience and they usually are decent backups when the entire load is not on their back.

I don't put much stock in statistics over 3 or 4 games. Glad Geno did well, but Geno is a known quantity at this point. His ceiling is quality back up QB.

[RiverDog]

What are you talking about? No one was arguing Geno isn't a good back up.

Your argument was Geno performed better than Russell. That's just not true. We were all fine with Geno as a back up. He did well enough as a backup. We're just not into your Geno should be in there instead of Russ push.

No one was down on Geno as a backup QB. So not sure what you think we were wrong about other than not agreeing with you that Geno should be in there over Russ.

Lots of folks on this forum said he was a below average backup such as River who minimized the performance vs the Jags and his overall numbers . As for Geno vs Wilson I’ve never made an argument that Geno is a better QB than Russ in his prime.

I said no such thing! I never said that Geno was a below average backup. I said that he was average. I even did some research and found that backups historically win 35% of their starts, and with Geno's 1-2 record as a starter this season, his performance was almost dead on that expectation.

Where I differed from you is on your over the top hype, cherry picking his numbers by telling us that his career numbers don't count because it was 10 years in the past, your talking up his performance against the worst team in the league, your making excuses for his mistakes, for example, his fumble in overtime vs. the Steelers, and so on.

My position on Geno is this: He is a decent backup, but he is not starter material. I fully support bringing him back, although I think we way overpaid him, as we do not have a qb on the roster that has experience in our system or the familiarity with our players and I don't mind seeing him compete for the starting job. But he's a known quantity, and depending on what other quarterback(s) we bring in, I don't want to waste a helluva lot of snaps on him as we need to find out of Lock and John Doe can do for us.

[Hawktawk]

In 2 of 3 starts Geno completed 70+% of his passes plus his quarter vs the Rams which was 10 points , 131 yards passing and 23 rushing . 68.5 % completion % 3.5 better than guess who in 13 quarters . His connection to DK was insane . 2 of DKs best games were in Genos 3 starts . He’s a hell of a backup at worst . He will keep Locke on his toes at a minimum and as I’ve said I’m comfortable with him as the starter assuming he’s playing like last year .

[NorthHawk]

Oh please, 3 starts in 5 years?
He must be an undiscovered All Pro!

[RiverDog]

Oh please, 3 starts in 5 years?
He must be an undiscovered All Pro!

LOL!

[Hawktawk]

Oh please, 3 starts in 5 years?
He must be an undiscovered All Pro!

lol so funny . Same as River . Did you even watch ? I did twice every game Russ or Geno . He played great . He was a tripped receiver , an inability to block TJ Watt at all and missed field goals by Meyers from winning every game he played in then Russel scissorhands put up 9 per game .
extrapolated over 17 games he would have had over 20 TDs to DK alone with his numbers in 13 quarters . His numbers of 68.5 % completion 102 QBR is indeed pro bowl numbers and a team could win every week with those numbers . Can we assume any of that was sustainable ? No . It’s what we got . Just like Penney only not as dramatic but this 62 year old football guru found it quite a fascinating appetizer , especially the last game . I’m not Stevie wonder like you all. I am well aware of the sample against the Rams starting on the 2 , 131 yards passing 23 rushing and 10 points in a quarter or 7 points less than Russ in 7 quarters . But it’s not enough of a sample to really know . I get it duhhhh. Good grief . GB would really have given some answers of whether he somehow learned to play better or if it was fools gold . It’s interesting they have him on the roster for a 4th season but I guess the guys that found Wilson have forgotten how to evaluate and develop QBs right ?

I know he sucked, never had a stretch like this ever before . Frankly before coming to Seattle and even then I didn’t consider him a good backup . I was stunned by how he played coming in for a guy who never comes out . I’m stunned by delusional Hawks fans who didn’t notice the things he did . If he played like last year and Locke beats him out it’s gonna be a great year . It will be if Locke doesn’t IMO.

[Hawktawk]

Lots of folks on this forum said he was a below average backup such as River who minimized the performance vs the Jags and his overall numbers . As for Geno vs Wilson I’ve never made an argument that Geno is a better QB than Russ in his prime .

Last year ? There is no question Wilson returned 3 weeks too early which I was dead right about as well . One of the dumbest things PC and JS did was let Wilson force his way back on the field . Coming off the backup compiling a 138 QBR with 3 TDs the very smartest thing they could have done is start Geno . You think a 98 yard drive pundits called surgical was a fluke , completing 72% of your passes in Pittsburgh in your first start in 5 years to 10 receivers , last second drive to tie despite getting the hell beat out of him was a fluke ? Saints was his worst game and he still threw a TD to DK . The amazing performance by he and the entire team vs Jax not impressive ? Ok send him out at Lambeau with the defense balling out and let’s see. We saw what we saw and I saw what Geno tweeted . “ I’d like to vent but it’s not safe “ trust me Geno I vented for you . Russ screwed you as a loyal backup who was prepared to play . He screwed all of us Asea .

See I’ve been right on the money with the whole Russell saga over the last 2 years from saying trade him a year ago to every development this year . I got it wrong when I began to believe everybody was coming back and I had been cool with it . And we will not know but certainly when Russ lost to Taylor Heinike , Colt McCoy, Nick Foles, got shut out, averaged 9 points first 3 back after Geno averaged 20 , yeah I think you could make a case we might have been better off with Geno . I understand the backup mentality ie they turn to a turd when the label starter is applied . But both our “ backup “ QBs have started . We’re just going to have to wait and see.

At least you're stating Pete allowed Russ back on the field and it was ultimately his call, though almost every coach let's their superstar players back on the field as soon as they are cleared by the doctor.

I don't know about other posters thoughts on Geno as a backup. I had no problem and have no problem with Geno as the backup QB. He's a former starter with experience and they usually are decent backups when the entire load is not on their back.

I don't put much stock in statistics over 3 or 4 games. Glad Geno did well, but Geno is a known quantity at this point. His ceiling is quality back up QB.

13 quarters told us that our backup played starter quality ball for 13 quarters give or take . Nothing more and nothing less . If it’s who Geno has become he’s starter quality . If it was a mirage he’s not . Would have loved to have seen a couple more while Russ actually healed up. And Yeah it was on Pete to let him return and it was the nail in the coffin for the season.

[NorthHawk]

There's an old saying that the most popular player on a team from the fans viewpoint is the backup QB.
Pretty much fits here, I would think.

[Aseahawkfan]

13 quarters told us that our backup played starter quality ball for 13 quarters give or take . Nothing more and nothing less . If it’s who Geno has become he’s starter quality . If it was a mirage he’s not . Would have loved to have seen a couple more while Russ actually healed up. And Yeah it was on Pete to let him return and it was the nail in the coffin for the season.

I don't get why you have to have these extreme viewpoint. It's not an all or nothing situation. Backup QBs can have periods where they look great. They're basically paid to come in and hold the ship together for 3 or 4 games until the starter gets back. If they look great in those 3 to 4 games, then good for the team. But it doesn't mean they're suddenly a starter. Geno had a chance to be a starter with the Jets for quite a few years. Over multiple season he just couldn't put it together. But he's found nice niche as a quality back up getting paid well to come in and hold things together if there is an injury or problem. Back up QB in the NFL is a well paid position and appreciated when the back up needs to come in.

And they can put up stats over a few games if they have a good run. Still don't make them a starter. Just means they're a back up having a good couple of games. I leave it at that myself.

[Hawktawk]

There's an old saying that the most popular player on a team from the fans viewpoint is the backup QB.
Pretty much fits here, I would think.

Only the starter bailed so we don’t know whose the backup now . It’s also a fact that career backups who wind up starters usually prove why they are backups .

As I say , similar to the Penney situation you have a guy that was dead and buried , forgotten , a total bust making league minimum outperforms his career average completion % by 10% over 13 quarter with 2 pretty filthy defenses including his first start in 5 years in Pittsburgh against the best edge rushing linebacker in the league who looked like it all night . Even with at least 3 tipped balls he completed 72% and led 3 straight scoring drives and 4 out of 5 to get into overtime where Tj stripped him . What was Russels last 2 minute drive to tie or win ? And the Saints defense that hurt his average almost took a quarterback less team to the postseason and shut out Brady a few weeks later . And that terrible Jax team won the next week over Buffalo and one of the best QBs in the league Josh Allen 9-6 . Seattle played an excellent game as a team . The defense shut out the Jags till the final minutes and nobody had shut them out in the first half . The backs ran strong . And read it one more time before you spit it back at me . 80% completion 2 TDs to DK over Griffin who started for us for years . Completed his first 15 passes , best in the league last year . Completed 10 passes to Lockett in the FIRST HALF.
I’d love to see some of you suit up against the worst team in the league . If you complete 15 to start and complete 80% against any NFL team you had one hell of a game . If you beat anyone 31-7 you had an excellent game as a team .

[RiverDog]

There's an old saying that the most popular player on a team from the fans viewpoint is the backup QB. Pretty much fits here, I would think.

Yup. Especially when you have come to hate the starter.

But I have the perfect analogy. It's like how the 2:00am princess looks to you after a night of drinking. She's gorgeous looking for a couple hours...until you sober up and realize that she's coyote ugly.

[Hawktawk]

13 quarters told us that our backup played starter quality ball for 13 quarters give or take . Nothing more and nothing less . If it’s who Geno has become he’s starter quality . If it was a mirage he’s not . Would have loved to have seen a couple more while Russ actually healed up. And Yeah it was on Pete to let him return and it was the nail in the coffin for the season.

I don't get why you have to have these extreme viewpoint. It's not an all or nothing situation. Backup QBs can have periods where they look great. They're basically paid to come in and hold the ship together for 3 or 4 games until the starter gets back. If they look great in those 3 to 4 games, then good for the team. But it doesn't mean they're suddenly a starter. Geno had a chance to be a starter with the Jets for quite a few years. Over multiple season he just couldn't put it together. But he's found nice niche as a quality back up getting paid well to come in and hold things together if there is an injury or problem. Back up QB in the NFL is a well paid position and appreciated when the back up needs to come in.

And they can put up stats over a few games if they have a good run. Still don't make them a starter. Just means they're a back up having a good couple of games. I leave it at that myself.

That’s the 64 K question. It’s so hard to make the point I’m trying to make . Geno was a career 58% passer with damn near a pick per TD for his entire career . He was a complete tool with a posse who got his jaw broken in the locker room by a teammate .

Then he comes here and sits for 3 years and Asea I know backups have streaks but Geno never did anything like this statistically other than one game as a rookie 374 yards 4 TDs and a perfect passer rating vs Miami .

Is it a total fluke ? Is it our coaching staff ? If so it’s good news for Locke . The only point I’m trying to make is that IF Geno can play like he did much of his time backing up he could start and we could win some games . PC has said he will get a chance to compete to start and that he’s ahead of everyone else . Time will tell . I don’t really care . I want the best guy . Russ is gone and he ain’t coming back . Next man up

[Hawktawk]

Yup. Especially when you have come to hate the starter.

But I have the perfect analogy. It's like how the 2:00am princess looks to you after a night of drinking. She's gorgeous looking for a couple hours...until you sober up and realize that she's coyote ugly.

Sounds like the voice of experience . Been there . This year that actually described getting in bed with Russell . Ugly season Fugly .
Yeah I’ve definitely come to hate at least the way it went down, the guy he became as he threw our season away and said he wanted to stay while watching Denver film . It of course hasn’t got a god damn thing to do with evaluating Geno or any other Qb as a potential replacement for 35 million man. But when you can’t debate stats you gotta sling mud .

[RiverDog]

Yup. Especially when you have come to hate the starter.

But I have the perfect analogy. It's like how the 2:00am princess looks to you after a night of drinking. She's gorgeous looking for a couple hours...until you sober up and realize that she's coyote ugly.

Sounds like the voice of experience . Been there . This year that actually described getting in bed with Russell . Ugly season Fugly .
Yeah I’ve definitely come to hate at least the way it went down, the guy he became as he threw our season away and said he wanted to stay while watching Denver film . It of course hasn’t got a god damn thing to do with evaluating Geno or any other Qb as a potential replacement for 35 million man. But when you can’t debate stats you gotta sling mud .

Oh, I've been there, alright, which is why I can identify with the emotions that you're experiencing with Geno.

[tarlhawk]

I think Geno was paid as a possible starter and not as a back-up. If he starts and plays as well as he can that 7 million is a bargain. Waldrons offense suits a QB who makes quick reads and delivers. Russel is a highly skilled proven Franchise QB but it was coupled with a highly motivational coach and a young hungry team driven to excel. Many talented QB struggle where their type of play doesn't fit the team that drafts him...while others who were overlooked who struggled in a College system that didn't display their skill set flourish in the NFL with the right pairing of coaching and opportunity. Being comfortable with the offensive schemes allows confidence as the QB feels the offense synching and flowing with momentum.

I found an excellent website called Top Billin who features/favors the Washington team...but gives insight on other teams that catch his eye. He gave some good insight on how the offense meshed with Geno's play in the Steelers game and another post with the Rams game. RW likes to "push" the ball deep where his accurate deep ball skills provide many thrills with explosive plays...the play calling is much more "complex" in nature.

Geno who played awesome collegiate ball at West Virginia was given a wide spread "simpler" scheme designed to take advantage of his quick reads/decision making. I think Geno and Drew Lock easily pale in comparison to the skills RW has mastered as he grew given the opportunity...but playing in Waldrons desired playbook and Pete Carrols insistence on a strong rushing attack...I think either Geno or Drew could thrive with the offensive play makers we have.

We have a tough schedule in spite of our poor 2021 record just because the AFC West all made free agency "All-in" signings while the NFC West teams are still peaking...that gives us 10 tough/very tough games alone. The draft will be KEY to restoring our base talent ...we have excellent starters if we can keep injuries from exposing our overall "next man up" weaknesses. GO HAWKS!

[c_hawkbob]

$4M is not starter pay in today's NFL.

[Hawktawk]

[quote="RiverDog"
Oh, I've been there, alright, which is why I can identify with the emotions that you're experiencing with Geno. [/quote]
No as I said your stupid analogy about being drunk and meeting some skank in a bar has nothing to do with analyzing a QB other than Russell was that coyote ugly girl you met in the bar this year and a lot of folks are still in shock waking up to it.


I wasn't!! I called for a divorce a year ago . Plenty of folks besides me including some pundits and writers realize that Geno is in a position to possible settle the argument one way or another and HAWKTAWK was one of the first to say it could happen many many months ago. Some people are just allergic to crow is the problem. Some are just Geno haters no matter what they say.

[Hawktawk]

$4M is not starter pay in today's NFL.

What's the difference? we won a superbowl and went to 2 with Russ making well under 1 million. Since hes gotten paid we haven't been past the wild card round not that its all his fault. It would seem to me if we could get starter play out of Locke or Geno for a cut rate that's helpful isn't it? We went to those 2 Super bowls playing Pete ball too....

[RiverDog]

$4M is not starter pay in today's NFL.

What's the difference? we won a superbowl and went to 2 with Russ making well under 1 million. Since hes gotten paid we haven't been past the wild card round not that its all his fault. It would seem to me if we could get starter play out of Locke or Geno for a cut rate that's helpful isn't it? We went to those 2 Super bowls playing Pete ball too....

The difference is in what role our coaching staff intends for Geno.

If you look around the league, backup QB's are making more money than they ever have. The Cards signed Colt McCoy to a $7.5M contract, Denver signed Bridgewater for $6.5M, and Jacoby Brissett got $4.65M from the Browns even though they have both Watson and Mayfield that they're paying. Heck, Marcus Mariota got $9.3M from the Raiders, and they just got through signing Carr to a $40M contract. Tyrod Taylor got $5.5M from the Texans, and he's not guaranteed to be their starter and will have to beat out Mills.

Geno's $4m plus incentives (obviously he'd have to start to hit the $7M) is par for the course for a backup. If he ends up starting and playing well, that contract will look like a steal, but it's pretty obvious that he's a Plan B if Lock doesn't pan out and if we don't spend a high draft pick on a QB.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/quarterback/

Like I said before, it's imperative that we have him on the club as we don't have anyone else with experience in our offense and familiarity with our players, so he had some leverage on us that he normally wouldn't have had if we had an incumbent starter on the roster, which helps explain why his contract was as high as it was.

[Hawktawk]

I think Geno was paid as a possible starter and not as a back-up. If he starts and plays as well as he can that 7 million is a bargain. Waldrons offense suits a QB who makes quick reads and delivers. Russel is a highly skilled proven Franchise QB but it was coupled with a highly motivational coach and a young hungry team driven to excel. Many talented QB struggle where their type of play doesn't fit the team that drafts him...while others who were overlooked who struggled in a College system that didn't display their skill set flourish in the NFL with the right pairing of coaching and opportunity. Being comfortable with the offensive schemes allows confidence as the QB feels the offense synching and flowing with momentum.

I found an excellent website called Top Billin who features/favors the Washington team...but gives insight on other teams that catch his eye. He gave some good insight on how the offense meshed with Geno's play in the Steelers game and another post with the Rams game. RW likes to "push" the ball deep where his accurate deep ball skills provide many thrills with explosive plays...the play calling is much more "complex" in nature.

Geno who played awesome collegiate ball at West Virginia was given a wide spread "simpler" scheme designed to take advantage of his quick reads/decision making. I think Geno and Drew Lock easily pale in comparison to the skills RW has mastered as he grew given the opportunity...but playing in Waldrons desired playbook and Pete Carrols insistence on a strong rushing attack...I think either Geno or Drew could thrive with the offensive play makers we have.

We have a tough schedule in spite of our poor 2021 record just because the AFC West all made free agency "All-in" signings while the NFC West teams are still peaking...that gives us 10 tough/very tough games alone. The draft will be KEY to restoring our base talent ...we have excellent starters if we can keep injuries from exposing our overall "next man up" weaknesses. GO HAWKS!

I love to read your posts Tarihawk. Informative and factual without a bunch of preconceived notions or misplaced loyalty to people who aren't even here anymore.
Or trying to start arguments by ridiculing a position HAWKTAWK has had for many months that is also held by our HOF coach and our GM and many others in the organization. A player who is universally loved by his teammates , another underrated factor.
Your contributions are very welcome and refreshing. And yes clearly the move shows Seattle sees Geno as a potential starting option. And you are absolutely correct about his game . He sticks it to the first or second read and was absolutely fearless throwing into NFL open windows. He took too many sacks and his delivery is a bit like I remember Hass, kind of a drop down 3/4 sidearm that got a couple of balls tipped vs Pittsburgh but he still completed 72% being sacked 5 times, hit at least that many more in his first start in 5 years. Its ridiculous to say his numbers in that brief period weren't starter quality.

Ill say it one more time. I hope he completes 68.5 % and a 5-1 TD to pick ratio in camp and gets beat fair and square by Drew Locke, because we will have a hell of an offense if that happens.

[Hawktawk]

What's the difference? we won a superbowl and went to 2 with Russ making well under 1 million. Since hes gotten paid we haven't been past the wild card round not that its all his fault. It would seem to me if we could get starter play out of Locke or Geno for a cut rate that's helpful isn't it? We went to those 2 Super bowls playing Pete ball too....

The difference is in what role our coaching staff intends for Geno.

If you look around the league, backup QB's are making more money than they ever have. The Cards signed Colt McCoy to a $7.5M contract, Denver signed Bridgewater for $6.5M, and Jacoby Brissett got $4.65M from the Browns even though they have both Watson and Mayfield that they're paying. Heck, Marcus Mariota got $9.3M from the Raiders, and they just got through signing Carr to a $40M contract. Tyrod Taylor got $5.5M from the Texans, and he's not guaranteed to be their starter and will have to beat out Mills.

Geno's $4m plus incentives (obviously he'd have to start to hit the $7M) is par for the course for a backup. If he ends up starting and playing well, that contract will look like a steal, but it's pretty obvious that he's a Plan B if Lock doesn't pan out and if we don't spend a high draft pick on a QB.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/quarterback/

Like I said before, it's imperative that we have him on the club as we don't have anyone else with experience in our offense and familiarity with our players, so he had some leverage on us that he normally wouldn't have had if we had an incumbent starter on the roster, which helps explain why his contract was as high as it was.

Its dangerous to do these days but ill take PCs word that Geno is going to get a chance to compete for the job as he has said it consistently for months. IMO tacking on a 3 million carrot tells me they want to give him additional incentive to do just that. I think its gonna be an always compete like 2012 with Russ and Flynn except I need to remember Tavarus Jackson was the odd man out after being under the impression he would have a chance to compete . It was the correct decision obviously.
If Mayfield comes over then maybe Geno is expendable but the guy is like he has herpes or something nobody wants him. The other scenario is also 2012 with JS scoping out some mid round QB who is as dynamic a player and as polished as Wilson. If they do that then maybe. I think Geno would go off the roster before Locke strictly based on age and draft capital.

But if we are going in to camp with these 2 guys, well there's Eason if you really want to see incompetent But if its Locke Geno as the top 2 and Locke isn't clearly better the smart thing to do for team success to begin is start the vet that been on the roster 4 seasons and put Locke in the bullpen. If Geno has the dreaded Ryan Fitz magic /Fitz tragic uh oh im a starter syndrome yank his ass and go with the kid

[RiverDog]

Its dangerous to do these days but ill take PCs word that Geno is going to get a chance to compete for the job as he has said it consistently for months. IMO tacking on a 3 million carrot tells me they want to give him additional incentive to do just that. I think its gonna be an always compete like 2012 with Russ and Flynn except I need to remember Tavarus Jackson was the odd man out after being under the impression he would have a chance to compete . It was the correct decision obviously.

These days, I don't take PC's word for anything. Do you remember what Pete once said about TJack? "We're going to build around Tavaris!". Then come August, TJack didn't get a single snap in the preseason as it was a contest between Flynn and Russell, ending when Flynn got injured. Is this history repeating itself? Dunno, but it's definitely a possibility if we bring in another QB.

If Mayfield comes over then maybe Geno is expendable but the guy is like he has herpes or something nobody wants him. The other scenario is also 2012 with JS scoping out some mid round QB who is as dynamic a player and as polished as Wilson. If they do that then maybe. I think Geno would go off the roster before Locke strictly based on age and draft capital.

But if we are going in to camp with these 2 guys, well there's Eason if you really want to see incompetent But if its Locke Geno as the top 2 and Locke isn't clearly better the smart thing to do for team success to begin is start the vet that been on the roster 4 seasons and put Locke in the bullpen. If Geno has the dreaded Ryan Fitzpatrick /Fitz tragic uh oh im a starter syndrome yank his ass and go with the kid

You're leaving out the possibility that we'll draft a QB early in the draft, ie Willis, Corral, or Ridder. If that happens, then the Russell/Flynn/TJack scenario may very well play out just as it would if we were to bring in Mayfield.

To summarize: (1)Don't trust Pete Carroll any further than you can spit. He's been known to change his mind, both in the past as well as more recently. (2)The roster is not complete. We may or may not bring in a viable QB to compete for not only the starting job, but the backup job as well. We should know more by this time two weeks from now after the draft is complete what our roster going into training camp may look like.

I hope like hell that we don't draft a QB in the first round. I might be able to swallow using one of our 2nd round picks if one of the three aforementioned happens do fall to us, and I want nothing to do with Mayfield. If it turns out to be Lock/Geno, then I'm good to roll with that for awhile.

[Hawktawk]

I had mentioned the Tavares Jackson thing. I remember him being brought in to build the team around and starting most games along with Whitehurst in the second consecutive 7-9 season in which he didn’t show much .

My understanding is he was promised a chance to compete in camp in 2012. To be fair nobody counted on Russ being as good as he was right out of the chute . They weren’t cutting Flynn so someone was odd man out. Geno could be that guy if they get Mayfield who I don’t want or they have a repeat of 2012 and find a stud QB which I totally would love . In that case see Ya Geno . Don’t let the door hit you where the good lord split you
QB is such a crap shoot anyway . Wasn’t last year a good year for Qb? Where’s the beef ? Wendz and Goff 1-2 where are they now ? Mariota and Winston . Who knows River. One of these guys may prove they belonged at 9 or some GM might take one higher than people think. Last year after Mac Jones my most impressive rookie was Davis Mills out of Houston in a later round . So it’s just a crap shoot .

[RiverDog]

I had mentioned the Tavares Jackson thing. I remember him being brought in to build the team around and starting most games along with Whitehurst . My understanding is he was promised a chance to compete in camp in 2012. To be fair nobody counted on Russ being as good as he was right out of the chute . They weren’t cutting Flynn so someone was odd man out. Geno could be that guy if they get Mayfield who I don’t want or they have a repeat of 2012 and find a stud QB which I totally would love . In that case see Ya Geno . Don’t let the door hit you where the good lord split you

Russell was drafted in the 3rd round, so they were likely planning on him being on the roster when they drafted him. Pete was disingenuous with TJack as he never even got a snap in the preseason. I hesitate to say that Pete lied to him because things change, but he should have never made that commitment to TJack as his play wasn't that spectacular.

I think that Clipboard Jesus got just one start, a 3-0 loss to the Browns if I remember correctly. TJack started all the other games, busted his balls but didn't produce much.

[Aseahawkfan]

I don't even listen to Pete Carroll. I stopped after the first few years when it became clear Pete talks to talk and is always trying to sell some positive or some rubbish that he has no intention of realizing. Pete and John keep any of their real opinions close to the vest. Pete's public speak is just to pump his guys up and maintain a positive appearance that further deflects controversy or drama. The only way you would get any truth out of Pete is to know him personally and have him trust you won't leak info to the public that creates issues for the team or himself. Pete is all about information control and ensuring nothing makes it to the public that creates issues or gives information on his real plans.

That's how Pete and John operate. And that's fine. You don't want drama or controversy on your team. Even when they traded Russell, they got it done and now barely talk about it. They've already moved to the draft.

[Hawktawk]

“I had mentioned the Tavares Jackson thing. I remember him being brought in to build the team around and starting most games along with Whitehurst . My understanding is he was promised a chance to compete in camp in 2012. To be fair nobody counted on Russ being as good as he was right out of the chute . They weren’t cutting Flynn so someone was odd man out. Geno could be that guy if they get Mayfield who I don’t want or they have a repeat of 2012 and find a stud QB which I totally would love . In that case see Ya Geno . Don’t let the door hit you where the good lord split you ”

Russell was drafted in the 3rd round, so they were likely planning on him being on the roster when they drafted him. Pete was disingenuous with TJack as he never even got a snap in the preseason. I hesitate to say that Pete lied to him because things change, but he should have never made that commitment to TJack as his play wasn't that spectacular.

I think that Clipboard Jesus got just one start, a 3-0 loss to the Browns if I remember correctly. TJack started all the other games, busted his balls but didn't produce much.

Was the commitment to T Jack made before the draft ? And I agree he had done nothing to deserve a shot. I recall him making some of the dumbest plays ever like taking a sack on 4 th down when he had plenty of time to throw it up . Jesus he was stupid . Similar athletic skills to Geno and even Russ a bit but no football intelligence whatsoever . Whitehurst started 2, the loss to Cleveland in which beast mode was injured and didn’t play . He started the following week vs Cincy and their new QB Andy Dalton and his rookie compadre AJ Green . We actually led 6-3 midway through the first half but PC yanked Whitehurst and put Tjack in . I attended the game with my best friend . It featured a long bomb to AJ burning Sherman and Cincy building a big lead . T Jack came storming back almost all the way and then a pick 6 house call . And that was Tjack and the 2011 hawks in a nutshell .

[RiverDog]

Was the commitment to T Jack made before the draft ? And I agree he had done nothing to deserve a shot. I recall him making some of the dumbest plays ever like taking a sack on 4 th down when he had plenty of time to throw it up . Jesus he was stupid . Similar athletic skills to Geno and even Russ a bit but no football intelligence whatsoever . Whitehurst started 2, the loss to Cleveland in which beast mode was injured and didn’t play . He started the following week vs Cincy and their new QB Andy Dalton and his rookie compadre AJ Green . We actually led 6-3 midway through the first half but PC yanked Whitehurst and put Tjack in . I attended the game with my best friend . It featured a long bomb to AJ burning Sherman and Cincy building a big lead . T Jack came storming back almost all the way and then a pick 6 house call . And that was Tjack and the 2011 hawks in a nutshell .

I'll trust your memory over mine regarding the number of Clipboard Jesus starts. I remembered the low scoring Cleveland game for sure. And I remember how TJack was so hesitant to throw, very indecisive or overly cautious about interceptions. Nevertheless, the guy played with his balls out, sort of like Dave Krieg without the production.

I honestly don't know if Pete made the commitment that TJack be allowed to compete for the starting job before or after the draft, but it doesn't really matter. Wilson was projected to go in the 5th or 6th round tops as I remember complaining about over spending for him. Since it wasn't a case of a QB unexpectedly falling to us, Pete had to have known well in advance of the draft that we were going to go after Russell, so either way, he was very disingenuous with TJack. But apparently all was forgiven as he eventually returned and served as Russell's backup for a couple of years.

[RiverDog]

I don't even listen to Pete Carroll. I stopped after the first few years when it became clear Pete talks to talk and is always trying to sell some positive or some rubbish that he has no intention of realizing. Pete and John keep any of their real opinions close to the vest. Pete's public speak is just to pump his guys up and maintain a positive appearance that further deflects controversy or drama. The only way you would get any truth out of Pete is to know him personally and have him trust you won't leak info to the public that creates issues for the team or himself. Pete is all about information control and ensuring nothing makes it to the public that creates issues or gives information on his real plans.

That's how Pete and John operate. And that's fine. You don't want drama or controversy on your team. Even when they traded Russell, they got it done and now barely talk about it. They've already moved to the draft.

Pete does like to jack his jaws and seems like the type of guy that likes hearing the sound of his own voice. I don't hold his dishonesty with the public against him, especially something that was as momentous as the Wilson trade. There's so many reporters and writers looking for a story that a simple "no comment" will send the rumor mills whirling. "No comment" wouldn't seem out of place for a guy like Bill Belichick, but if Pete doesn't go off on a 500 word dissertation in response to a simple question, you'd know that something was up.

Bottom line is that you can't read anything into what Pete says about Geno's competing for the starting job, about reloading vs. rebuilding, or anything else related to the football team. That's not a complaint or criticism, it's just the way it is with him. My dad would say about Pete that he's "full of more $hi!t than a Christmas goose."

[Aseahawkfan]

Pete does like to jack his jaws and seems like the type of guy that likes hearing the sound of his own voice. I don't hold his dishonesty with the public against him, especially something that was as momentous as the Wilson trade. There's so many reporters and writers looking for a story that a simple "no comment" will send the rumor mills whirling. "No comment" wouldn't seem out of place for a guy like Bill Belichick, but if Pete doesn't go off on a 500 word dissertation in response to a simple question, you'd know that something was up.

Bottom line is that you can't read anything into what Pete says about Geno's competing for the starting job, about reloading vs. rebuilding, or anything else related to the football team. That's not a complaint or criticism, it's just the way it is with him. My dad would say about Pete that he's "full of more $hi!t than a Christmas goose."

Bill B just says no comment.

Pete spins a 500 word plus diatribe that amounts to no comment.

Both of them sending the message you'll never know what's really going on, I'm never going to tell you, and you can try to figure it out after I do whatever it is I'm going to do because I'm still not going to explain much of anything that you'll ever be able to use in a meaningful way.

[RiverDog]

Pete does like to jack his jaws and seems like the type of guy that likes hearing the sound of his own voice. I don't hold his dishonesty with the public against him, especially something that was as momentous as the Wilson trade. There's so many reporters and writers looking for a story that a simple "no comment" will send the rumor mills whirling. "No comment" wouldn't seem out of place for a guy like Bill Belichick, but if Pete doesn't go off on a 500 word dissertation in response to a simple question, you'd know that something was up.

Bottom line is that you can't read anything into what Pete says about Geno's competing for the starting job, about reloading vs. rebuilding, or anything else related to the football team. That's not a complaint or criticism, it's just the way it is with him. My dad would say about Pete that he's "full of more $hi!t than a Christmas goose."

Bill B just says no comment.

Pete spins a 500 word plus diatribe that amounts to no comment.

Both of them sending the message you'll never know what's really going on, I'm never going to tell you, and you can try to figure it out after I do whatever it is I'm going to do because I'm still not going to explain much of anything that you'll ever be able to use in a meaningful way.

Yeah, Pete's kind of like Casey Stengel, the New York Yankees manager back in the 1950's. If Stengel didn't want you to understand something, he wouldn't just stand there and ponder a question. He'd go off on some rant..."you know, this guy is pretty good so I could put him over here, then I could take that guy and put him over there", things that had little to do with the original question so that nobody could understand what the hell he was talking about. He couldn't stand dead air.

Although that's not an exact analogy to Pete, I can see a lot of the same attributes.

[Hawktawk]

Beast quake . The day the PC era started . He must have had a hell of a motivational speech that day . Last I checked it was a broken down hasslebeck, not Russ behind center . The day a nice starting running back became a legend , a free agent stroke of genius like many that built the team to what it was . All that happened before Russ . Yeah there’s been the bad calls including the worst one , misses on draft picks like everyone but some serious players too . I won’t get carpal tunnel listing all of them. But we won the second most games in the decade , 12-4 a year ago and it wasn’t all Russ although 11-29 with a pick 6 is why we lost the WC game . I’m TIRED of hearing the best coach and GM in our history are garbage , don’t know talent . Even people like DJ Reed we claimed off waivers proves they do. Just tired of it . Pete’s a scapegoat and Teflon man is getting loving reassurances from his new linemen he “ won’t get hit here “ Fun fact Russ missed 13 quarters and took 32 sacks / Denver gave up 40 with a QB in Bridgewater who is far less likely to hold the ball . Geno took an incredible 13 sacks in 13 quarters for a total of 45.
Let’s see what happens in Denver and here in Seattle before we tear into our cornerstone men who took us somewhere we never went before . We might have 2 if PC hadn’t let Russ cook.we will never know . But we will learn some things this year .

[RiverDog]

Beast quake . The day the PC era started . He must have had a hell of a motivational speech that day . Last I checked it was a broken down hasslebeck, not Russ behind center . The day a nice starting running back became a legend , a free agent stroke of genius like many that built the team to what it was . All that happened before Russ . Yeah there’s been the bad calls including the worst one , misses on draft picks like everyone but some serious players too . I won’t get carpal tunnel listing all of them. But we won the second most games in the decade , 12-4 a year ago and it wasn’t all Russ although 11-29 with a pick 6 is why we lost the WC game . I’m TIRED of hearing the best coach and GM in our history are garbage , don’t know talent . Even people like DJ Reed we claimed off waivers proves they do. Just tired of it . Pete’s a scapegoat and Teflon man is getting loving reassurances from his new linemen he “ won’t get hit here “ Fun fact Russ missed 13 quarters and took 32 sacks / Denver gave up 40 with a QB in Bridgewater who is far less likely to hold the ball . Geno took an incredible 13 sacks in 13 quarters for a total of 45.
Let’s see what happens in Denver and here in Seattle before we tear into our cornerstone men who took us somewhere we never went before . We might have 2 if PC hadn’t let Russ cook.we will never know . But we will learn some things this year .

Beast wasn't acquired through free agency. We got him in a trade with the Bills. Lynch played just up the road at Cal when Pete was at USC, so I'm sure that he had a pretty good insight to what he was getting. It seems that the further Pete gets away from his college days, the worse his personnel decisions get.

Pete deserves all the grief he's been getting lately, and I think that he'd even admit that he's had some disappointing seasons as of late. After all, this is the "win forever" guy that's never supposed to lose.

[NorthHawk]

i think Pete's draft decisions are getting worse because he's approaching the end of the line and doesn't want to embrace a rebuild.
That's why we're hearing the word reset and him talking about just being a couple of players away from contending.
He's simply in denial at this stage and plugging immediate holes doesn't help the long term prospects for this team.

[RiverDog]

i think Pete's draft decisions are getting worse because he's approaching the end of the line and doesn't want to embrace a rebuild.
That's why we're hearing the word reset and him talking about just being a couple of players away from contending. He's simply in denial at this stage and plugging immediate holes doesn't help the long term prospects for this team.

Could be. Your guess is just as good as mine.

However, like I said before, it's not within Pete's "Win Forever" philosophy to admit that he's fielding a sub standard team as it would suggest if he were to admit that he's rebuilding. He could be in a rebuild mode but doesn't call it that for fear of demoralizing his players and disappointing the fan base.

The proof will be in the pudding. If Pete drafts a QB at #9 overall, then it would be strong evidence that he thinks that he's just a player or two away from being a serious contender for the Super Bowl.

[NorthHawk]

Unfortunately, QB's in this class will take a few years to develop, but next years are supposed to be much more Pro ready.
In my opinion they SHOULD address the Lines of Scrimmage for the long term, but I fear the shiny bauble syndrome Pete
has will make it a secondary consideration.
It seems to me one of their faults in drafting is focusing more on what a player Can do and not putting as much weight on
what they Can't do. This led us to pass by good players like Cox, TJ Watt, Chubb, and Taylor for others that were either
never effective or not offered 2nd contracts but had a unique skill or talent.
It's been an embarrassing display of poor player selection overall the last 8 years or thereabouts.

[Hawktawk]

I thought I might be wrong about beast but now I remember and it seems we swindled Green Bay out of him. I have a special fondness for beastquake. Still my only playoff game attended and with my 13 year old son . Also we got 500$ ticket on the 50 for half price 4 rows behind the hawks bench . Literally we saw it at camera angle as the guy on the big camera cart was in my way all day .

I do not believe for one minute JS and PC plan on trading away their Hall of Fame qb and going in the toilet . None . Zero .it’s not happy talk this time . For one PC won’t sign up for it at 70. Why?

They have a plan .

I’m with TCS we are gonna see our defense and some of the young draft picks come alive . Signing Diggs is senseless for a rebuild . He’s overpriced but we have Adams assuming he can stay on the field and be utilized by the new DC.

On offense I’m with Tarihawk. We have some excellent weapons for whoever is behind center . DK who is reportedly attending voluntary offseason workouts unlike every other guy looking for a deal , Lockett, Fant , dissley , Penney , Swain had separation a few times . Dee eskridge who is completely forgotten but who in his microscopic sample looked a bit Harvin Esque . True to form all Russ used him for was jet sweeps and a few passes . I think he had 1TD. But with Waldron running the McVeigh offense with all those guys someone’s going to be open every play . And both Geno and Locke are first read second read guys . Like I said Jarred Goff got to the Super Bowl , led all QBs statistically much of the year . Where is he ? Stafford won a super bowl with this offense despite leading the league in picks .
You just have to run the play and keep the guy vertical long enough to get it off.
I think some people might be surprised .

[NorthHawk]

We got Marshawn Lynch from Buffalo.
He maybe more than anyone else set the tone for the team with his toughness and swagger.

[Hawktawk]

We got Marshawn Lynch from Buffalo.
He maybe more than anyone else set the tone for the team with his toughness and swagger.

Oh I agree . Darrell Bevell for all his haters developed Russels game to form a very efficient bruising but explosive offense with Beast . But I recall Bevell referring to Beast as “ the best offensive player on the team “. Imo if he’s not a first ballot HOF guy the Hall is a joke . I’m so honored as to have attended beast quake . Bucket list stuff . And the greatness of Lynch is a testimony to Pete’s ability to develop players and deal with different personalities as lynch was regarded as a discontent player who had been replaced as the starter .

[RiverDog]

We got Marshawn Lynch from Buffalo. He maybe more than anyone else set the tone for the team with his toughness and swagger.

Yup, between him and Kam. That big right tackle of ours that used to draw a lot of PF's was a mean dude, too. Can't remember his name, Italian sounding or something.