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https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/13/politics/michael-flynn-trump-russia-explainer/index.html

Flynn looks like he will get out trouble. How did Trump and Barr make this happen? Are they going to be able to turn the tables on the Democrats who brought Flynn down? Have Trump and Barr built enough power in the DOJ and FBI to turn the tables on the Dems? How do you see this?

This was a pure power move some time in the making. In my opinion that it signals a shift in the DOJ and FBI indicating that Trump and Barr have installed sufficient people in place to start releasing valid legal attacks to defend Trump and colleagues against the Dems. When Trump first arrived, Obama, Hilary, and the Democrats had their supporters installed all over the FBI and DOJ. Now it seems that has been undone and Trump and Barr have shifted things enough to start to make moves to feed to the conservative media like Fox News.

This is the kind of corruption rampant in DC that IDhawkman likes to call "weaponized", but I see as working as it always has. Various government agencies have always been politicized whether the DOJ, FBI, CIA, or what not. There are very few if any apolitical entities in government. It is merely a matter of can you adapt to a new administration that allows you to survive. Comey could not adapt to Trump, so Trump got rid of him. They all took a run at Trump and so far the attempt to take him out legally has failed due to a lack of flipping the Senate. Trump is building his own swamp to go battle the Dems and possibly go after them. We will see.

The case isn't dropped yet. The DOJ is requesting that they drop it and a federal judge is reviewing that request. It's far from a done deal. The judge has appointed a retired judge to argue against dropping the case. This is an ongoing story with a lot left to be told.

The Democrats have played their trump card (no pun intended) in the Ukraine scandal, and Trump knows it. He knows that it's an election year, that the nation is preoccupied with the coronavirus scandal, and that there's no way that the Dems would ever file a second impeachment charge when they fell flat on their faces on the first, which is one of the reasons why I argued that it was silly for the Dems to pursue an impeachment case that they couldn't win. This is one of the first consequences of the Dem's failed bid to remove Trump via impeachment, but if he's re-elected, it won't be the last. Indeed, being a lame duck would make Trump even more bold and disrespectful of the law and/or Constitution.

The DOJ, or at least the nominating process for the Attorney General, needs to be revised so as to give the department more objectivity. They need to get the Supreme Court involved. One thought is to have SCOTUS submit X number of names as candidates for AG and let the two parties, regardless of majority/minority status, alternately cross one name at a time until one remains. This would prevent a POTUS from naming his own brother to serve as the nation's chief law enforcement officer.

AS this goes deeper and more is uncovered, watch for "suicides" among the 2nd tier players like Bloomenthal, Brennan, Comey, etc. It won't be Obama or Clinton but if it starts getting too close to them, it wouldn't surprise me that a scapegoat who comits suicide is very likely.

By the way, you can read the DOJ's reasoning for dropping the case online. It might send a chill down your back when you read what they did to that man, though.

Even though the judge hasn't dropped it yet, without a prosecutor, it will get dropped. And yes, I know the judge assigned another biased retired judge to try and bring charges against the man but that won't go anywhere because the DOJ won't allow for any prosecution in a criminal case. Private citizens can't bring a criminal case, only the govt. can do that. And this has no reasoning to be a civil case.

idhawkman wrote:AS this goes deeper and more is uncovered, watch for "suicides" among the 2nd tier players like Bloomenthal, Brennan, Comey, etc. It won't be Obama or Clinton but if it starts getting too close to them, it wouldn't surprise me that a scapegoat who comits suicide is very likely.

Hey, welcome back, my friend!

This will definitely be interesting to watch. This case isn't over. If they can't get it done before the election and Biden wins, then Flynn and other Trump cohorts will get a pardon most likely. I bet Trump is hoping they can get this case taken care of before June, so that will be one less person he has to pardon before he leaves. If he wins re-election, then he can pardon without worrying about it like Clinton did and many other presidents.

Manafort is out too due to Covid breakout concerns in prison, and will probably finish the rest of his sentence under home confinement.

Aseahawkfan wrote:This will definitely be interesting to watch. This case isn't over. If they can't get it done before the election and Biden wins, then Flynn and other Trump cohorts will get a pardon most likely. I bet Trump is hoping they can get this case taken care of before June, so that will be one less person he has to pardon before he leaves. If he wins re-election, then he can pardon without worrying about it like Clinton did and many other presidents.

Winning re-election will have no effect on a possible pardon for any of Trump's cronies. If he loses, he simply pardons them before he leaves office, and if he wins re-election, he's a lame duck and can do anything he pleases because he won't have to worry about public opinion and the Dems, having already played their impeachment card, will never in a million years be able to muster enough support to bring him to trial for a second time.

Because Bob Barr is without a doubt the most corrupt anti american AG in history. hes willingly doing the bidding of a madman intent on rewriting history of his multiple impeachable (impeached) offenses under cover of a pandemic he welcomed to america while he golfed. Flynn is a big boy who pled guilty twice. I'd love to have a Bob Barr bail me out of that.

The FBI notes were a big whooptee do to me. Law enforcement is always trying to get guilty people to incriminate themselves. He did.
Whatever. At least the virus is in the west wing so there's always hope

I-5 wrote:Manafort is out too due to Covid breakout concerns in prison, and will probably finish the rest of his sentence under home confinement.

Same with Michael Cohen.

Hawktawk wrote:At least the virus is in the west wing so there's always hope

Come on, my friend. Although it would indeed be ironic and in some ways a just punishment for his behavior during this crisis, as much as we dislike DJT, he's still a fellow human being and we should not be wishing a potentially fatal disease on him, especially given his age and the nature of the beast in that he could infect scores of others.

I think the White House having an outbreak would be disastrous for National Security, but it would force them to take the pandemic seriously. I don't know if anyone else has this perspective, but nowhere is it politicized more than in the US.

I-5 wrote:I think the White House having an outbreak would be disastrous for National Security, but it would force them to take the pandemic seriously. I don't know if anyone else has this perspective, but nowhere is it politicized more than in the US.

I'm not even sure that Trump getting infected by COVID would change anything. He'd just come up with some kind of conspiracy theory, that someone, probably Nancy Pelosi or the Chinese, gave it to him intentionally.

I agree with it being politicized, and although I think that 90% of the blame goes to the far right, there are those on the left that aren't doing enough to address legitimate concerns that is exasperating the situation. For example, our governor here, a liberal Democrat, banned work on all non essential construction projects EXCEPT government or government funded projects.

If Trump recovered from COVID19 quickly, then he would think even less of it. If he got really sick, then he might take it more seriously like Boris Johnson. Hard to tell with Trump.

Aseahawkfan wrote:If Trump recovered from COVID19 quickly, then he would think even less of it. If he got really sick, then he might take it more seriously like Boris Johnson. Hard to tell with Trump.

I still think he'd find a way to rationalize it. He wouldn't be caught dead admitting that he'd made a mistake or misjudgment.

In Brazil, they call Pres. Bolsonaro’s visit to the White House as the ‘Corona Trip’ since multiple members of his team developed Covid upon their return to Brazil. For some reason, Bolsonaro, like Trump, seems to have a natural antibody against it, as both have tested negative so far. If anything, Bolsonaro is even more dismissive of the pandemic, actually joining protestors who want to open up the country.

I-5 wrote:In Brazil, they call Pres. Bolsonaro’s visit to the White House as the ‘Corona Trip’ since multiple members of his team developed Covid upon their return to Brazil. For some reason, Bolsonaro, like Trump, seems to have a natural antibody against it, as both have tested negative so far. If anything, Bolsonaro is even more dismissive of the pandemic, actually joining protestors who want to open up the country.

I don't think that Trump has anymore immunity to COVID than anyone else. The odds of getting infected are very low even if you're around an infected person. Besides, Trump's failure to wear a mask isn't putting him in anymore risk. As we all know, wearing a mask helps prevent you from infecting someone else.

At our local Tyson meat packing plant, where 1400 employees work, they had a COVID outbreak and about 150 people ended up getting infected. That's an infection rate of a little over 10%. I'm not dismissing the threat, just saying that the odds of Trump getting infected are very low.

RiverDog wrote:I don't think that Trump has anymore immunity to COVID than anyone else. The odds of getting infected are very low even if you're around an infected person. Besides, Trump's failure to wear a mask isn't putting him in anymore risk. As we all know, wearing a mask helps prevent you from infecting someone else.

At our local Tyson meat packing plant, where 1400 employees work, they had a COVID outbreak and about 150 people ended up getting infected. That's an infection rate of a little over 10%. I'm not dismissing the threat, just saying that the odds of Trump getting infected are very low.

Or even the virus wants nothing to do with him. haha.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -warn.html

I've said for as long as this guy has been anywhere near the power he holds that he is a danger to the entire planet. This is but one example of how dangerous and tenuous our grip on the mantle of leader of the civilized world is. Ive heard quotes from forign leaders who say the world order has been utterly rearranged in the past 3.5 years and no more so than the third world response to a crisi the likes of which america was a leader in the past.

That's fine with Trump as he is an isolationist, protectionist, science and climate and intelligence community denier. That's also big part of why our country has 5 % of the world population and is projected to have over a third of worldwide deaths. Other reasons are his dismissive attitude and public proclamations to that effect, dismissing mask usage, voicing support for protests that are now suspected of spreading the virus to remote parts of the states or neighboring states. The federal response has been dreadful on most levels and is still not anywhere near coordinated.And the naked political campaigning with zero empathy for the victims lip service aside is disgusting. As pointed out by pro golfer Rory Mcilroy yesterday while vowing never to play golf again with Trump. " I dont agree with anything he's saying or doing" We have a serious problem worldwide and hes hanging banners about more tests than anyone like its some kind of game or campaign appearance". There's something terrible about that".

Hear hear Rory
So lets recap. At the time this pandemic swept silently across America like nowhere else Trump played 8 rounds of golf, dismissed warnings including from Peter Navarro in late Jan who hit the sunday talk shows defending his boss yesterday saying China "seeded" this virus by aircraft all over the world, back to the racist China Virus talk, purely for political consumption. Pandemics always emanate from foreign countries but America has never been so inept in dealing with in in over 100 years.
Amazingly for anyone but trump he has had an 85% turnover rate among chief staff members since inauguratiohttps://www.brookings.edu/bl ... -remains/n , 4th NSA director, 3rd Sec of Defense, 4th chief of staff appointed but not yet confirmed and Mick Mulvaney was fired in mid Feb. 3rd Sec of the navy being as the first guy resigned over the pardon of a war criminal, second one after talking trash about a Carrier captain he had fired for defending his men helpless in Guam and disabling a huge part of america's projection of power in the pacific (see above this is really scary especially if they cant prevent repeated incidences of this.)

Its not entirely fair to say Trump "disbanded" the Obama Pandemic team. John Bolton actually rolled it into another portfolio more to his liking. But He didn't like the Ukrainian "drug deal" that got Trump impeached. Some say had Bolton been in charge it would have been a different situation worldwide but I doubt it. Trump listens to nobody but Jared Kushner and Ivanka .
But the most despicable actions by this vindictive angry unstable man is the utter murderers row destroying careers of those who did their patriotic duty. In the case of the 4 most recent INDEPENDENT IGs they were doing their job as watchdogs. The one who found the errors in the FBI FISA system was just fine. The other 4 were investigation various aspects of the most corrupt administration in history. The most recent was reportedly investigating Mike Pompeio for using an aide to perform numerous personal services for him and it was the investigated Pompeio who requested Trump fire him . He was replaced by a Pence loyalist.Anyone who had a doubt abut the post impeachment DJT probably sees clearly now if they arent a hopeless Trumpanzee. The perfect storm is now a cat 5 and picking up momentum.

We wont survive another 4 years of this.

Wow, nice rant, Hawktalk!

Trump is the worst person we could possibly have had holding office during a pandemic. There are times you want a liberal in charge, other times when a conservative is preferable. The only thing that has saved us is that Trump doesn't have a whole lot of authority in shutting down and restarting businesses.

The problem is that Trump could win re-election. Biden has a scandal that he hasn't completely put behind him yet. However, he's doing the smart thing by laying relatively low in an attempt to let it die on the vine. Biden has such a propensity to stick his foot in his mouth that he doesn't need to be putting his slim lead at risk. In this election, it's definitely going to be one of the candidates giving each other enough rope to hang themselves with. The other problem is that we don't know how this pandemic is going to affect voter turnout. The polls in the battleground states have Biden with a slight lead in most of them but that might not translate to the actual election.

Do presidents usually replace IGs when they take office? I wonder if there is info on the history of this. Trump should be getting rid of every Democratic appointee he can. They are his enemy and will sell him out at the first available opportunity. That's just smart politics to get rid of your competitor's plants.

RiverDog wrote:Hey, welcome back, my friend!

Thanks River. I dip in when I can but don't always have time to post like before. I pass through your town (I-82) 4 times a week now. Unfortunately, being on a schedule I haven't had a chance to look up any Shackers in my travels. I go to Aubrun twice a week now and am hoping I can stay there for a game later this year.

RiverDog wrote:I'm not even sure that Trump getting infected by COVID would change anything. He'd just come up with some kind of conspiracy theory, that someone, probably Nancy Pelosi or the Chinese, gave it to him intentionally.

I agree with it being politicized, and although I think that 90% of the blame goes to the far right, there are those on the left that aren't doing enough to address legitimate concerns that is exasperating the situation. For example, our governor here, a liberal Democrat, banned work on all non essential construction projects EXCEPT government or government funded projects.

The problem is that there are too many "exceptions" as you noted. It just appears to be (mainly in blue states) government picking and choosing winners and losers.

That said, the left should be mortified by what the dem governors are doing to this nation. If an honest person were to look at this from an outside perspective, the government being involved in private business is the definition of fascism. Who can work, who can't, what business is essential which is not, what a business can and can't do or has to do in order to operate is all govt. infringement on private business. What's worse is that if the population doesn't bow to their edicts, they will fine, jail and punish (take away a business license) them into (get this, "compliance") That sounds eerily close to "re-education camps doesn't it?

Market forces should be allowed to work in this environment. If a business is careless let the people decide whether or not to patronize that business. They will soon comply with the demand of the people insisting on safety measures, etc. If people are scared to come out of their hovels then let them stay there. No one is insisting on them engaging in the economy.

Americans thorughout our entire existence have decided what acceptable risks are and aren't. No one guaranteed all the bears, American Indians, moutain lions, weather, etc. would be totally eliminated before the frontiersmen were allowed to seek out their own pursuit of happyness as outlined in the constitution.

Aseahawkfan wrote:If Trump recovered from COVID19 quickly, then he would think even less of it. If he got really sick, then he might take it more seriously like Boris Johnson. Hard to tell with Trump.

He's lost personal friends to the desease. Every move he's made is driven by saving lives whereas the opposition is more interested in how they can use the crisis to gain political power or money.

idhawkman wrote:The problem is that there are too many "exceptions" as you noted. It just appears to be (mainly in blue states) government picking and choosing winners and losers.

In their defense, this has been a completely unprecedented event. There was no blueprint for state governments to follow. It's made worse by the fact that individual states have almost complete control over the decision making in their states, creating an uncoordinated, patch work response. Although I don't trust the current administration to effectively address the issue, ideally there should be one controlling entity as the virus crosses state borders. I see it no different in the involvement of the FBI once crime reaches into multiple states.

idhawkman wrote:That said, the left should be mortified by what the dem governors are doing to this nation. If an honest person were to look at this from an outside perspective, the government being involved in private business is the definition of fascism. Who can work, who can't, what business is essential which is not, what a business can and can't do or has to do in order to operate is all govt. infringement on private business. What's worse is that if the population doesn't bow to their edicts, they will fine, jail and punish (take away a business license) them into (get this, "compliance") That sounds eerily close to "re-education camps doesn't it?

I disagree. This is a short term action, similar to declaring marshal law or establishing a curfew to prevent looting when there is a natural disaster. As was shown just in the past couple of days in Wisconsin, governors do not have unlimited control over these restrictions. Checks and balances are still in place. It's not at all fascist or dictatorial, no more fascist than any of Trump's Executive Orders.

As I said above, governors had to make up the rules on the fly, and the old adage to error on the side of safety was certainly appropriate. I don't blame them for taking the actions they did, even the nonsensical ones like fishing, at least not initially. Where I differ is that they did not come back quickly enough and revise them to take into account the differences in population densities, acquiring more knowledge regarding social distancing, allowing hospitals to get caught up with supplies, etc. They were taking out the temporary beds they had set up at the Clink and sent extra ventilators back to NYC so it was apparent that the state felt that they might have over estimated the threat, yet it took weeks before the governor took any action at all. There's no reason why they couldn't have allowed businesses like non commercial construction to resume so long as businesses agreed to comply with reasonable requirements, like masks, no car pooling, staggered break times, etc.

idhawkman wrote:Market forces should be allowed to work in this environment. If a business is careless let the people decide whether or not to patronize that business. They will soon comply with the demand of the people insisting on safety measures, etc. If people are scared to come out of their hovels then let them stay there. No one is insisting on them engaging in the economy.

Americans thorughout our entire existence have decided what acceptable risks are and aren't. No one guaranteed all the bears, American Indians, moutain lions, weather, etc. would be totally eliminated before the frontiersmen were allowed to seek out their own pursuit of happyness as outlined in the constitution.

Disagree again. This isn't like market forces being effective in controlling something like food positioning or E.coli. The virus is way, way too transmissible for market forces to be trusted to control it. The government had to act. And as far as Americans deciding on acceptable risks, it's not like refusing to wear a seat belt or motorcycle helmet. The risk isn't to the individual, it's to the individuals they come in contact with, the best example being the wearing of a mask. If you decide the risk isn't worth your wearing a mask, you're not subjecting your own health to the virus, you're subjecting someone else to your decision not to wear one.

RiverDog wrote:Hey, welcome back, my friend!

idhawkman wrote:Thanks River. I dip in when I can but don't always have time to post like before. I pass through your town (I-82) 4 times a week now. Unfortunately, being on a schedule I haven't had a chance to look up any Shackers in my travels. I go to Aubrun twice a week now and am hoping I can stay there for a game later this year.

Good luck attending a game. The only way I'll go to the game is if there are no restrictions, and that probably won't happen until they develop and distribute a vaccine. I've heard where they're considering reducing crowds to 25% capacity, giving ticket holders assigned entry times hours before kickoff, etc. Those are deal breakers for me. Half the fun and excitement of attending a game in person is the carnival like atmosphere with raucous crowds.

idhawkman wrote:He's lost personal friends to the desease. Every move he's made is driven by saving lives whereas the opposition is more interested in how they can use the crisis to gain political power or money.

Ok, IDhawkman is the Hawktawk of Trump supporters. The only people who believe the above are the blind Trump supporters who see him not wearing a mask, focused on the economy, and claiming there is enough testing when clearly there is not a good testing and contact tracing plan in place would admit every decision he's made is not to save lives. You have to be real blind to believe that.

idhawkman wrote:He's lost personal friends to the desease. Every move he's made is driven by saving lives whereas the opposition is more interested in how they can use the crisis to gain political power or money.

Aseahawkfan wrote:Ok, IDhawkman is the Hawktawk of Trump supporters. The only people who believe the above are the blind Trump supporters who see him not wearing a mask, focused on the economy, and claiming there is enough testing when clearly there is not a good testing and contact tracing plan in place would admit every decision he's made is not to save lives. You have to be real blind to believe that.

Yea, that was a real zinger, Trump's every move being driven by saving lives. I guess that's why he claimed that the virus was nothing but a hoax that the Democrats made up to embarrass him.

Ever since the crisis began, Trump has been fighting with the governors, telling them he's not a supply clerk, told his VP not to deal with them, and acting like there wasn't a PPE shortage all because he's driven by saving lives. Got it!

RiverDog wrote:Yea, that was a real zinger, Trump's every move being driven by saving lives. I guess that's why he claimed that the virus was nothing but a hoax that the Democrats made up to embarrass him.

Ever since the crisis began, Trump has been fighting with the governors, telling them he's not a supply clerk, told his VP not to deal with them, and acting like there wasn't a PPE shortage all because he's driven by saving lives. Got it!

That would mean Trump was just stupid instead of self-centered if "his every decision" was the kind of decisions he's been making to save lives. No national pandemic plan. Not admitting that our PPE shortage exists because we outsourced all PPE production to other nations. Not seeming to care about contact tracing or know what it is. Saying things like maybe we should try "drinking bleach" while he's brainstorming at the podium during a press conference.

My mother defends Trump too without any real evidence or by ignoring any evidence to the contrary. I gotta roll my eyes. If he wins again in November, I'm going to avoid talking about the guy much for four years. He's going to be insufferable and his followers the same.

Aseahawkfan wrote:That would mean Trump was just stupid instead of self-centered if "his every decision" was the kind of decisions he's been making to save lives. No national pandemic plan. Not admitting that our PPE shortage exists because we outsourced all PPE production to other nations. Not seeming to care about contact tracing or know what it is. Saying things like maybe we should try "drinking bleach" while he's brainstorming at the podium during a press conference.

My mother defends Trump too without any real evidence or by ignoring any evidence to the contrary. I gotta roll my eyes. If he wins again in November, I'm going to avoid talking about the guy much for four years. He's going to be insufferable and his followers the same.

The only thing that's provided any kind of regulation on Trump has been the prospect of his re-election. If he gets re-elected, and since the Dems have already played their impeachment card, there isn't going to be anything that is going to keep him from doing whatever he damn well pleases whether it's against the law or not. At least with other Presidents, Bill Clinton is perhaps the best example, they are concerned with their legacy and how history will view them which causes them to respect the office. But Trump doesn't give a rip. He's already convinced himself that whatever he says or does is right.

I avoid talking politics with nearly all but my closest of friends, even those that share the same political ideology as I do. Part of it has to do with my former employment as a supervisor, that I didn't want people that might not agree with my politics to be afraid to approach me because of it. Same with religion. I very rarely post my opinion on social media. This forum is the only place I feel comfortable enough to discuss politics. Must have something to do with the anonymity we enjoy here.

Every move he's made is driven by saving lives whereas the opposition is more interested in how they can use the crisis to gain political power or money.

I respect ID a lot, and think he's a good guy, but that statement is a bit strong. I don't even know where to begin with that one, but it looks like Riv and ASF already have.

One thing I do agree with Trump on is going after the WHO, and specifically the Chinese gov't. I think they need to be questioned, and a lot of countries think so, starting with Australia. Other than that, there is very little I can find in what he says that shows care for people, or even first responders for that matter. Best example of that is the way he tried to correct the doctor speaking about PPE's in the oval office. He didn't like what she said at all.

Every move he's made is driven by saving lives whereas the opposition is more interested in how they can use the crisis to gain political power or money.

I-5 wrote:I respect ID a lot, and think he's a good guy, but that statement is a bit strong. I don't even know where to begin with that one, but it looks like Riv and ASF already have.

One thing I do agree with Trump on is going after the WHO, and specifically the Chinese gov't. I think they need to be questioned, and a lot of countries think so, starting with Australia. Other than that, there is very little I can find in what he says that shows care for people, or even first responders for that matter. Best example of that is the way he tried to correct the doctor speaking about PPE's in the oval office. He didn't like what she said at all.

Idahawkman's statement was "a little strong"? Kudos for your political correctness. We need to give Hawktalk a couple shots of whiskey before he reads what Idahawk wrote. There are so many examples of Trump's insensitivity to the death and suffering caused by this disease that it's analogous to shooting fish in a barrel. Just replay the press conferences and repeat the tweets.

Agreed with Trump's calling out the WHO, although I think a lot of his motivation comes from his desire to deflect criticism from his own failures. Nevertheless, the WHO, like the United Nations, is a toothless, ineffective organization that needs a major overhaul.