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I'm a confirmed baby boomer, born in 1954, smack dab in the middle of the generation, and I've been the victim of age discrimination while I was employed when my employer openly admitted to passing me over for promotion in favor of a younger person with far less qualifications, so if anyone has a right to complain, it's me.

But this case that has made it to the Supreme Court is laughable. It's getting to the point where we're regulating free speech.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51132554

Is that free speech or the equivalent of saying "Old man or woman"? If the term was being used to dismiss and make fun of someone, why not let it go to court.

It depends on the context. I know the term is used right now to make fun of older people for their older person ways. Though I personally don't care, I still say tit for tat. With this generation of freaking out over microaggressions and social media bullying, then this is par for the course.

I know when we were young bullying was prevented by parents by teaching you how to kick someone else's ass, at least for boys, or I should say at least for myself. You kept a civil tongue or you better step up to fight. My friends and I would brawl people trying to bully us or others. Things got settled and respect was earned by standing up for yourself even if you lost as long as you got some good licks in.

Not sure how girls handled it back then.

Hey, people don't want fighting to settle things any longer, so this is how they do it: court cases. Lawyers have been the biggest driver of political correctness because they sue you if you offend anyone they can make money on.

Aseahawkfan wrote:Is that free speech or the equivalent of saying "Old man or woman"? If the term was being used to dismiss and make fun of someone, why not let it go to court.

My problem is that the use of the term isn't evidence of age discrimination and thus doesn't belong in court.

I

Aseahawkfan wrote: know when we were young bullying was prevented by parents by teaching you how to kick someone else's ass, at least for boys, or I should say at least for myself. You kept a civil tongue or you better step up to fight. My friends and I would brawl people trying to bully us or others. Things got settled and respect was earned by standing up for yourself even if you lost as long as you got some good licks in.

"Boomer" should not be equated with other much more hurtful terms like racial or ethnic slurs, mocking of speech, physical appearance, and so on. If I wanted to insult an older person, I can think of a lot more insensitive terms, like prune face or coffin dodger. It does not qualify as a taunt IMO.

RiverDog wrote:"Boomer" should not be equated with other much more hurtful terms like racial or ethnic slurs, mocking of speech, physical appearance, and so on. If I wanted to insult an older person, I can think of a lot more insensitive terms, like prune face or coffin dodger. It does not qualify as a taunt IMO.

So if some younger manager were dismissive of you by saying "Ok, Boomer", you wouldn't consider that age discrimination?

Aseahawkfan wrote:So if some younger manager were dismissive of you by saying "Ok, Boomer", you wouldn't consider that age discrimination?

Absent any other facts? No. I don't consider it to be a derogatory term.

Age discrimination is very easy to see. Many managers will come right out and tell you that if you don't get promoted by age 50, your career assentation is over. They'll make comments like "he'll be out on FLMA more often" meaning older people are more likely to be hospitalized, or "he isn't promotable", meaning he doesn't have enough time left in his career to become the next CEO.

There isn't the hostility to age discrimination as there is with other protected groups, like race, religion, or gender discrimination. To the contrary, most people treat older workers with a great deal more respect than they treat younger ones.

My only experience with age discrimination was my job at Genie/Terex. Hired in April 2018 as a full time temp I was assigned to build ground control and platform control boxes for 85 ' genie lifts, program them and do field repairs. I was supposed to train for 45 days but was assembling in 2 days and on my own in a week. Idea submissions were mandatory and I invented tools, processes etc drawing praise. My builds were immaculate with engineers taking pictures of my hands completing the boxes to put on the work instruction Ipads around the plant.I trained a dozen assemblers from different value streams and would consult them at their work station if they had a problem.I was the safety officer for VS3 assembly, was never late, never called in, never reprimanded or written up. I brought a happy personality plus attitude to work every day. Still although I was eligible to be "rolled over" in 6 months to a full time position with excellent benefits and layoff protection it just didn't happen in almost 18 months.

I saw people who missed time, Fd around throwing electrical parts at each other, stood around get rolled over. I saw employees get rolled over that were so bad they were later fired, flunked drug tests etc. I actually had electrical engineers in the plant begging HR to roll me over so I would escape layoff but HR would not do it.
Anyone want to try to convince me it wasn't because they were 25, often buddies with their superiors, and I was 60?

I get it, why provide health insurance for a 60 year old? why develop a guy for 5 years of service when you can develop one to be there 40 years? As a guy who has employed people for 4 decades I know Id take 5 years of a guy like me over 10 of some punk kid. Id get twice as much done in half the time.
But its just not how it is in the minds of management most places. Its not fair but it is what it is. We Boomers are on the way out.

Thankfully Im back managing turf on a golf course and they knew my age when they hired me

Hawktawk wrote:My only experience with age discrimination was my job at Genie/Terex. Hired in April 2018 as a full time temp I was assigned to build ground control and platform control boxes for 85 ' genie lifts, program them and do field repairs. I was supposed to train for 45 days but was assembling in 2 days and on my own in a week. Idea submissions were mandatory and I invented tools, processes etc drawing praise. My builds were immaculate with engineers taking pictures of my hands completing the boxes to put on the work instruction Ipads around the plant.I trained a dozen assemblers from different value streams and would consult them at their work station if they had a problem.I was the safety officer for VS3 assembly, was never late, never called in, never reprimanded or written up. I brought a happy personality plus attitude to work every day. Still although I was eligible to be "rolled over" in 6 months to a full time position with excellent benefits and layoff protection it just didn't happen in almost 18 months.

I saw people who missed time, Fd around throwing electrical parts at each other, stood around get rolled over. I saw employees get rolled over that were so bad they were later fired, flunked drug tests etc. I actually had electrical engineers in the plant begging HR to roll me over so I would escape layoff but HR would not do it.
Anyone want to try to convince me it wasn't because they were 25, often buddies with their superiors, and I was 60?

I get it, why provide health insurance for a 60 year old? why develop a guy for 5 years of service when you can develop one to be there 40 years? As a guy who has employed people for 4 decades I know Id take 5 years of a guy like me over 10 of some punk kid. Id get twice as much done in half the time.
But its just not how it is in the minds of management most places. Its not fair but it is what it is. We Boomers are on the way out.

Thankfully Im back managing turf on a golf course and they knew my age when they hired me

IMO age discrimination is much, much more prevalent in the work place than it is with any other protected group. One of the problems is that by the time where you get 20+ years into a career, you're not nearly as likely to rock the boat, quit and change jobs, move and sell your house, or sue your employer for discrimination. Employers know that, and thus feel a lot less encumbered in honoring an individual's right to fairness. Besides, in my case I otherwise liked my employer and eventually felt that they did me a favor by keeping me out of a job that would have had a lot more stress to it.

On a personal note, I'm glad you're back amongst the employed. As much crap as I give you, I still consider you a friend.

RiverDog wrote:Absent any other facts? No. I don't consider it to be a derogatory term.

Age discrimination is very easy to see. Many managers will come right out and tell you that if you don't get promoted by age 50, your career assentation is over. They'll make comments like "he'll be out on FLMA more often" meaning older people are more likely to be hospitalized, or "he isn't promotable", meaning he doesn't have enough time left in his career to become the next CEO.

There isn't the hostility to age discrimination as there is with other protected groups, like race, religion, or gender discrimination. To the contrary, most people treat older workers with a great deal more respect than they treat younger ones.

It would be based on context as I see it. Some guy ribbing you with "Ok, Boomer" than some young guy constantly dismissing me and my contributions with the term.

If it's a good nature ribbing among friends I've always been OK with the like, but some random guy "OK Boomer"'s me dismissively might just get clapped upside the head by this old man.

It has a become a term used by "woke" individuals to quickly dismiss a dissenting opinion, similar to "mansplaining". I'd be curious to see if it gains any traction, but I do think it is more serious than those who use the term think.

MackStrongIsMyHero wrote:It has a become a term used by "woke" individuals to quickly dismiss a dissenting opinion, similar to "mansplaining". I'd be curious to see if it gains any traction, but I do think it is more serious than those who use the term think.

I must be out of the loop 'cause I ain't familiar with "woke" or "manslaining" either ...

"Woke" is the new term for enlightened or whatever. Basically people that think they know what's really going on. Just a new term for the younger group uses for this generation for the same idea countless generations have felt when they think they know some secret info about society or the world.

and "mansplaining" is when a man decides to tell a woman how it is regardless of her opinion, usually without having honest dialogue and considering counter arguments. I do believe this does happen, and the ladies out there have a legitimate gripe about it, but I have been a part of well-reasoned arguments and actually listen, but, because I had a dissenting opinion, it was labeled "mansplaining".

Both "ok, boomer" and "mansplaining", to me, are used too often now to try and shut up and offending party.

MackStrongIsMyHero wrote:Both "ok, boomer" and "mansplaining", to me, are used too often now to try and shut up and offending party.

The term itself isn't at all offensive, it's only the manner in which it is directed could any reasonable person ever consider it an insult.

For example, if I were a participant in a golf outing, I would have no problem with someone putting me on a team with 3 other 60+ year olds and call us the "Boomers." If the object were to insult the group, name the team the "Coffin Dodgers", "Prune Faces", or "Wrinkle Dicks".

I should have said "shut up an offending party", meaning if my stance offends somebody.

I don't think term itself is offensive either, but if my argument is considered offensive or isn't "woke" enough, then, yeah, I could get an Ok Boomer or mansplaining jab.

MackStrongIsMyHero wrote:I should have said "shut up an offending party", meaning if my stance is offends somebody.

I don't think term itself is offensive either, but if my argument is considered offensive or isn't "woke" enough, then, yeah, I could get an Ok Boomer or mansplaining jab.

Which is the essence of my argument. The issue should have nothing to do with the "OK, Boomer" phrase, and as such, shouldn't even be mentioned in a complaint anymore than saying "OK, Old Man" or "OK, Grandpa" or any one of a thousand possible handles.

RiverDog wrote:For example, if I were a participant in a golf outing, I would have no problem with someone putting me on a team with 3 other 60+ year olds and call us the "Boomers." If the object were to insult the group, name the team the "Coffin Dodgers", "Prune Faces", or "Wrinkle Dicks".

Now that is funny you sound like you may have played in a few events Having been in golf course management for around 34 years i've seen some teams like that, tournaments called "big Wallys" "sammies bash" and "warm lucky open".
Prim and proper country clubbers forget the game was invented by a bunch of drunks in skirts. I was at a course like that for 9 years dealing with prick members and arrogant owners. Now that I'm gone I hear they miss having me producing million dollar turf for 400K and working 60-70 hrs a week
I just finished my first month at my 5th course, the legacy golf resort at frenchman Hills. i've been removing trees, 20 so far and almost all by myself at age 60. I've lost 15 lbs and love being back outdoors. I can't wait for summer.I hear there is more of a laid back fun tourist environment here where people enjoy our efforts and appreciate them.

RiverDog wrote:For example, if I were a participant in a golf outing, I would have no problem with someone putting me on a team with 3 other 60+ year olds and call us the "Boomers." If the object were to insult the group, name the team the "Coffin Dodgers", "Prune Faces", or "Wrinkle Dicks".

Hawktawk wrote:Now that is funny you sound like you may have played in a few events Having been in golf course management for around 34 years i've seen some teams like that, tournaments called "big Wallys" "sammies bash" and "warm lucky open".
Prim and proper country clubbers forget the game was invented by a bunch of drunks in skirts. I was at a course like that for 9 years dealing with prick members and arrogant owners. Now that I'm gone I hear they miss having me producing million dollar turf for 400K and working 60-70 hrs a week :lol

I'm a horrible golfer. I've never broken 100 and usually just play best ball with some friends that are much better golfers. I usually only make it 9 holes before my back starts talking to me. I wish I had taken up golf earlier in my life. Growing up, we always considered it a sissy game played by failed baseball players. Outside of company outings, I never played a round of golf until I was in my 40's, and by that time, muscle memory made my golf swing pretty awkward.

Hawktawk wrote:I just finished my first month at my 5th course, the legacy golf resort at frenchman Hills. i've been removing trees, 20 so far and almost all by myself at age 60. I've lost 15 lbs and love being back outdoors. I can't wait for summer.I hear there is more of a laid back fun tourist environment here where people enjoy our efforts and appreciate them.

Is that the one that used to be called Mar Don, out by O'Sullivan Dam? I'm sincerely glad to hear that you're back at work doing something that you enjoy.

RiverDog wrote:
I'm a horrible golfer. I've never broken 100 and usually just play best ball with some friends that are much better golfers. I usually only make it 9 holes before my back starts talking to me. I wish I had taken up golf earlier in my life. Growing up, we always considered it a sissy game played by failed baseball players. Outside of company outings, I never played a round of golf until I was in my 40's, and by that time, muscle memory made my golf swing pretty awkward.

"I just finished my first month at my 5th course, the legacy golf resort at frenchman Hills. i've been removing trees, 20 so far and almost all by myself at age 60. I've lost 15 lbs and love being back outdoors. I can't wait for summer.I hear there is more of a laid back fun tourist environment here where people enjoy our efforts and appreciate them."

Is that the one that used to be called Mar Don, out by O'Sullivan Dam? I'm sincerely glad to hear that you're back at work doing something that you enjoy.

Yes it is Mardon on potholes. There's some big money investors putting in nice 2 bedroom view homes and premium view RV lots. The course has the old 9 built in house and the owner had a source of free trees and planted them everywhere, maybe 1000 or more on 9 holes. Counting this Jan there have been over 600 trees removed in the last 5 years and there are still too many. The back 9 is modern amphitheater golf architecture, no trees with a view for 30 miles over potholes, the frenchman hills, colocum and cascades, really cool. I've been hired as the assistant Supe with a likely promotion to supe next January. Being here a month I can see they have never had a guy like me. I'm excited to show what I can do.

I started out as a complete hack at golf at the Oasis park and par 3 in 1985. In the mid 90s at Sun lakes I got down to an 8 handicap. I hit it 280 average and my short game was exceptional, especially chipping and putting. I actually got to golf with Duff McKagan from GNR in 1998, sat on the same cart and played 18 holes. I won too But I was golfing 54 to 72 holes a week while running a 2 man maintenance show on 9 holes and also ringing the cash register a few days a week. I was an 8, my course was a 1 I started putting more into maintenance and less into golf and now i'm like you,horrible, almost never break 100. It's really hard to take when you were really good once.

Hawktawk wrote:Yes it is Mardon on potholes. There's some big money investors putting in nice 2 bedroom view homes and premium view RV lots. The course has the old 9 built in house and the owner had a source of free trees and planted them everywhere, maybe 1000 or more on 9 holes. Counting this Jan there have been over 600 trees removed in the last 5 years and there are still too many. The back 9 is modern amphitheater golf architecture, no trees with a view for 30 miles over potholes, the frenchman hills, colocum and cascades, really cool. I've been hired as the assistant Supe with a likely promotion to supe next January. Being here a month I can see they have never had a guy like me. I'm excited to show what I can do.

I started out as a complete hack at golf at the Oasis park and par 3 in 1985. In the mid 90s at Sun lakes I got down to an 8 handicap. I hit it 280 average and my short game was exceptional, especially chipping and putting. I actually got to golf with Duff McKagan from GNR in 1998, sat on the same cart and played 18 holes. I won too But I was golfing 54 to 72 holes a week while running a 2 man maintenance show on 9 holes and also ringing the cash register a few days a week. I was an 8, my course was a 1 I started putting more into maintenance and less into golf and now i'm like you,horrible, almost never break 100. It's really hard to take when you were really good once.

I'll have to make it up there sometime. My wife and I have a small, 24 foot motor home that we like to take on very short one day trips just to do something and I had forgotten about Potholes State Park and the Mar Don resort. I've never spent a lot of time in that area nor have I ever golfed that course as it's off the beaten path. The only requirement we have is that we have plenty of shade at any RV lot as I had to cut off our awning due to it being loaded with mold that was impossible to get rid of.

RD there's lots of options here including heavily treed campgrounds right by the front 9 of my course. We would love to have you. My wife and I are staging an RV in a site for the year which helps with what ill be doing but we are looking forward to it. It's our first travel trailer.

Hawktawk wrote:RD there's lots of options here including heavily treed campgrounds right by the front 9 of my course. We would love to have you. My wife and I are staging an RV in a site for the year which helps with what ill be doing but we are looking forward to it. It's our first travel trailer.

Thanks for the invite! I'll keep that in mind. We're still a couple months away from camping season.

Congratulations on your travel trailer! There are times I wish we had a trailer as it's nice to drop it at a site and use the towing vehicle independently. They're a b**** to back up and unless you're a truck driver, you really have to get used to pulling them, but they're perfect for your application. I used to have a boss that lived 70 miles from his office and had one he parked at a farmer's place for times he couldn't make it home.