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I deal in Crypto currencies a bit and found this new site that is represented by REP Tokens.

What this site does is allow you to "bet" on anything. Politics, sports, financial markets, etc. without bookie or other fees. If you have an event or a prediction, you can place your position where others can "bet" against that position. If your prediction comes true, you get the rewards for it and of course if you're wrong, you lose your position.

My question is: Do you think this type of thing can replace sports betting in Vegas and other locals?

https://www.augur.net/

DISCLAIMER: That's the main site if you want to know more about how it works. This is not an affiliate link, a promotion for it or anything like that. I get no benefit if you click the link or if you decide to use the service.

I don't like to gamble money myself. I prefer investing. I doubt the government will let any gambling type activity continue if real money starts jumping in. You'll probably be able to use it until the government notices and does something about it.

I don't trust Cryptocurrencies myself. Seems like a whole lot of nothing. Until I see one backed by real assets, I don't have any interest myself. I call Crypto musical chairs money. You pass it around hoping you don't get caught without a chair.

Aseahawkfan wrote:I don't like to gamble money myself. I prefer investing. I doubt the government will let any gambling type activity continue if real money starts jumping in. You'll probably be able to use it until the government notices and does something about it.

I don't trust Cryptocurrencies myself. Seems like a whole lot of nothing. Until I see one backed by real assets, I don't have any interest myself. I call Crypto musical chairs money. You pass it around hoping you don't get caught without a chair.

All understandable positions and I fully support your decision not to join in on the cryptocurrencies. That said, the US is woefully behind in the cryptocurrency market compared to the rest of the world. There are countries out there now that have their own crypto currency. Some states are starting to catch on here in the US also where you can actually pay your taxes with cryptocurrencies.

One thing about crypto currency is that you can't have a central bank (or the fed) manipulate the currency since it is a distributed currency. Another big benefit is the lower fees since banks can't charge you huge amounts and hold your money for days collecting interest on it while you do a wire transfer. There are drawbacks though. E.g. if you forget your wallet or lose it, you lose your crypto coins. Its incumbent on the individual to safeguard your crypto wallet and not the bank.

There are huge updates in the crypto market that I think people should be at least aware of if they are going to be judicious with their assets and protect them from disruptive forces that are being introduced through crypto.

What is crypto currency is my main question? I can't figure it out. What provides it with value?

Have you bought anything with a crypto? I'm not even sure how many places accept it.

Aseahawkfan wrote:What is crypto currency is my main question? I can't figure it out. What provides it with value?

Have you bought anything with a crypto? I'm not even sure how many places accept it.

Great questions.

1. what is crypto currency is a very long and detailed conversation but to sum it up in a short concise statement, it is a distributed banking system without any central control. It was created as a result of the failed banking system in 2008 and subsequent bail outs by our govt.

2. What provides its value? This depends on the crypto coin you are actually talking about. E.g. If you buy Ethereum you are buying into smart contracts that are immutable. Bitcoin is a currency coin that is a currency based coin and considered the standard by which most other coins are valued against. The value is derived much the same way value is derived by gold, stock or fiat currency. Again, it depends on the coin you are talking about. When starbucks releases its coin, you will be able to buy anything at starbucks with their coin just like you do with fiat currency for whichever country you are in at the time. Big Lots has its own currency, too. But you can't spend starbucks coins at big lots and vice versa. So you use a currency coin like Bitcoin, Litecoin, etc to swap your starbucks coins into and then from there into big lots coins. Carbon Cub (an airplane manufacturer in River's neck of the woods) states at the bottom of their invoice that Crypto Currency is gladly accepted. You may need to ask them what currencies they would accept though. There's over 2250 different crypto currencies now. Some act as a stock in a company, too. Ice Rock Mining is a crypto mining organization that pays out dividends on their mining operations. the dividends are paid in crypto currency. There are a number of crypto exchange platforms like the NASDAQ or DOW and they have their own coins and the value of those coins are based on exchange fees. I'm actually developing a coin myself that will open up a whole new sector in crypto but I can't disclose that yet until we are ready to launch. One last thing to mention in this section is that yes, there are crypto ATM machines around the world. Very few in the US though because of restrictive SEC rules. You can convert from one currency to another at these ATMs or buy/sell fiat currency at them. They do have a card like your debit or credit card too. Just search "crypto ATM" in google and you'll find one close to you.

3. yes, I've bought a lot of things with crypto. Mainly online though since the major POS vendors (AMEX, Visa, MC, etc) are opposing crypto. The fees are much lower with crypto than with POS cards and the transactions happen within seconds as opposed to waiting for settlement overnight, etc. The only thing about crypto though is that if you don't have the coins in your wallet to spend, you can't buy anything. There's no "credit" or negative balances allowed.

One thing I will point out to you is that the banks have all gone into cooperation in developing their own coin called Ripple. This is how banks now move money intercontinentally. The change the fiat currency you have that you've set up a wire xfer for and they buy ripple with it. They then xfer the ripple to the country you are wiring money to and the bank there converts it back into their fiat or whatever fiat you are paying with. The xfer happens almost instantaneously with very little cost but the bank still is charging you high wire xfer fees and waiting 3 days to collect interest on your money.

idhawkman wrote:[1. what is crypto currency is a very long and detailed conversation but to sum it up in a short concise statement, it is a distributed banking system without any central control. It was created as a result of the failed banking system in 2008 and subsequent bail outs by our govt.

There is no central agency to contact if you get hacked or you engage in a bad transaction? Banks do provide monetary protection.

2. What provides its value? This depends on the crypto coin you are actually talking about. E.g. If you buy Ethereum you are buying into smart contracts that are immutable. Bitcoin is a currency coin that is a currency based coin and considered the standard by which most other coins are valued against. The value is derived much the same way value is derived by gold, stock or fiat currency. Again, it depends on the coin you are talking about. When starbucks releases its coin, you will be able to buy anything at starbucks with their coin just like you do with fiat currency for whichever country you are in at the time. Big Lots has its own currency, too. But you can't spend starbucks coins at big lots and vice versa. So you use a currency coin like Bitcoin, Litecoin, etc to swap your starbucks coins into and then from there into big lots coins. Carbon Cub (an airplane manufacturer in River's neck of the woods) states at the bottom of their invoice that Crypto Currency is gladly accepted. You may need to ask them what currencies they would accept though. There's over 2250 different crypto currencies now. Some act as a stock in a company, too. Ice Rock Mining is a crypto mining organization that pays out dividends on their mining operations. the dividends are paid in crypto currency. There are a number of crypto exchange platforms like the NASDAQ or DOW and they have their own coins and the value of those coins are based on exchange fees. I'm actually developing a coin myself that will open up a whole new sector in crypto but I can't disclose that yet until we are ready to launch. One last thing to mention in this section is that yes, there are crypto ATM machines around the world. Very few in the US though because of restrictive SEC rules. You can convert from one currency to another at these ATMs or buy/sell fiat currency at them. They do have a card like your debit or credit card too. Just search "crypto ATM" in google and you'll find one close to you.

What nations back their crypto like say American backs its dollar? America's currency is backed by its economic strength, so are most currencies along with the typical supply and demand lines. Now gold is supply and demand driven. That's what I understand drives crypt-currency values. They are more like a product than a currency. A product with value according to supply and demand with no central body controlling the amount in the market.

3. yes, I've bought a lot of things with crypto. Mainly online though since the major POS vendors (AMEX, Visa, MC, etc) are opposing crypto. The fees are much lower with crypto than with POS cards and the transactions happen within seconds as opposed to waiting for settlement overnight, etc. The only thing about crypto though is that if you don't have the coins in your wallet to spend, you can't buy anything. There's no "credit" or negative balances allowed.

That's like a currency with nothing backing it but what people are willing to spend on it. Banks don't charge for ACH money transfers. Most banks take time to conduct a transfer to protect the consumer, so this is not a negative. I like my money protected with a window where I can contact my bank if I'm hacked.

It sounds like if my crypto-money was hacked or stolen, I"m screwed. It's gone and there is no way to recover it and no agency to protect it. It doesn't sound like any law enforcement agency will help you. I doubt crypto-currency will be mainstream until it provides the exact protections you seem to think are what makes it better. I don't think the mainstream will see it that way.

What are the comparative prices? Transactions for PoS cards are generally in the 30 cents or less range. The smaller the transaction, the bigger percentage of the transaction that charge takes. But larger transactions barely notice the small fee.

One thing I will point out to you is that the banks have all gone into cooperation in developing their own coin called Ripple. This is how banks now move money intercontinentally. The change the fiat currency you have that you've set up a wire xfer for and they buy ripple with it. They then xfer the ripple to the country you are wiring money to and the bank there converts it back into their fiat or whatever fiat you are paying with. The xfer happens almost instantaneously with very little cost but the bank still is charging you high wire xfer fees and waiting 3 days to collect interest on your money.

A bank backed crypto would probably have the best chance of gaining mainstream acceptance because banks provide monetary protection. People like that protection given most lack of tech knowledge to protect their crypto-currency.

Good luck with the crypto. I doubt I'll hop on until it has all the attributes of money including the protection big banks provide my cash. I can't afford to lose a bunch of money getting hacked or in a bad transaction with no process to get it back from bad actors. I do not like its supply-demand driven nature in a market where just about anyone can start a crypto that devalues another type of crypto. We've already seen what has happened in the past when too many competing monies are in a market and it's not good, which is why every major nation in the world moved to a single national currency. When you have a ton of different types of currency competing it the same market, they tend to compete against each other causing dangerous movements in supply and demand most people cannot afford.

Aseahawkfan wrote:There is no central agency to contact if you get hacked or you engage in a bad transaction? Banks do provide monetary protection.

Exactly, you are responsible for your wallet's security. There's no FDIC and if you forget your password or you don't use 2FA or you don't have verification emails and push notifications enabled, then you are exposing yourself. There's no bank to babysit you and your money. Its YOUR money and you have to treat it as such.

What nations back their crypto like say American backs its dollar? America's currency is backed by its economic strength, so are most currencies along with the typical supply and demand lines. Now gold is supply and demand driven. That's what I understand drives crypt-currency values. They are more like a product than a currency. A product with value according to supply and demand with no central body controlling the amount in the market.

I'm not sure how old this list is but the number of countries continues to grow. Again, you won't see the US backing this sort of thing until it is too late. Why you may ask? Because the US can't control (sanctions, freeze bank accounts, etc) the Crypto markets. Its decentralized which means I can send you coins directly that get registered to the immutable block chain without going through a bank or an exchange with very little to no fees.
https://www.fxempire.com/education/article/the-next-cryptocurrency-evolution-countries-issue-their-own-digital-currency-443966

That's like a currency with nothing backing it but what people are willing to spend on it. Banks don't charge for ACH money transfers. Most banks take time to conduct a transfer to protect the consumer, so this is not a negative. I like my money protected with a window where I can contact my bank if I'm hacked.

Exactly! Now you have to ask yourself why the US got away from the gold standard as other countries have. Maybe we wouldn't be $22T in debt if they had stayed on the gold standard. Maybe we wouldn't be able to keep borrowing $1.25B a day. Eventually that model is going to collapse and then who you gonna call about your money? Ghostbusters? I've seen systemic collapse of a country and its currency a couple of times. Its not pretty but I'm sure we'll soon find that out in the U.S. if we don't get our arms around our out of control spending. Watch and see how fast it comes "IF" one of the socialist progressives wins the white house in 2024.

It sounds like if my crypto-money was hacked or stolen, I"m screwed. It's gone and there is no way to recover it and no agency to protect it.

Yep, that is right so protect it.

It doesn't sound like any law enforcement agency will help you. I doubt crypto-currency will be mainstream until it provides the exact protections you seem to think are what makes it better. I don't think the mainstream will see it that way.

Here, you are totally off base. What happens if someone steals your Rembradnt or you gold bars? You don't have any recourse through the justice system? If you can show damages you have protections.

What are the comparative prices? Transactions for PoS cards are generally in the 30 cents or less range. The smaller the transaction, the bigger percentage of the transaction that charge takes. But larger transactions barely notice the small fee.

You're really off base on this. Yes, most are 30c/transaction but you forgot the 3% fee of whatever is bought. The merchant usually ends up eating that fee and for AMEX the cost is higher. Larger items have the same fees attached. The only thing that can lower those fees is if you have a lot of transactions and then the POS provider may cut that down to as low as 2.25%. If you do the math, that adds up signifcantly on big ticket and large quantity sales. Crypto fees are usually set at .001% of the coin being transfered regardless of how many coins are transferred.

A bank backed crypto would probably have the best chance of gaining mainstream acceptance because banks provide monetary protection. People like that protection given most lack of tech knowledge to protect their crypto-currency.

You would think so but the XRP (Ripple) coin is one of the worst coins to buy in the crypto world because they have too many in circulation.

Good luck with the crypto. I doubt I'll hop on until it has all the attributes of money including the protection big banks provide my cash. I can't afford to lose a bunch of money getting hacked or in a bad transaction with no process to get it back from bad actors. I do not like its supply-demand driven nature in a market where just about anyone can start a crypto that devalues another type of crypto. We've already seen what has happened in the past when too many competing monies are in a market and it's not good, which is why every major nation in the world moved to a single national currency. When you have a ton of different types of currency competing it the same market, they tend to compete against each other causing dangerous movements in supply and demand most people cannot afford.

Thank you. By the way, here's my recieve bitcoin address which is only used for receiving in coins and this address is not able to xfer coins out of my wallet. That's a different address but the address is just as long as the receive is. Good luck hacking this.

bc1qjrn7ghnmsechw50dp8gvn5tcnxsn4jwq5vautv

idhawkman wrote:Exactly! Now you have to ask yourself why the US got away from the gold standard as other countries have. Maybe we wouldn't be $22T in debt if they had stayed on the gold standard. Maybe we wouldn't be able to keep borrowing $1.25B a day. Eventually that model is going to collapse and then who you gonna call about your money? Ghostbusters? I've seen systemic collapse of a country and its currency a couple of times. Its not pretty but I'm sure we'll soon find that out in the U.S. if we don't get our arms around our out of control spending. Watch and see how fast it comes "IF" one of the socialist progressives wins the white house in 2024.

Neither party is getting control of spending. It's a long ways off and we won't have to survive it, but maybe your kids will see the bankruptcy. Who can say. America can reset fairly quick. Other nations crumbling has far more to do the nation itself than just the currency.

The Gold Standard has its own well-documented problems. I've ready extensively on The Gold Standard and do not support it. I would rather have some centralized computer system that tracks the exact amount of money in circulation and caps it. We have the means nowadays to use an electronic means of tight money tracking including hard caps.

Here, you are totally off base. What happens if someone steals your Rembradnt or you gold bars? You don't have any recourse through the justice system? If you can show damages you have protections.

So can call the cops or whatever agency to get my bitcoin back? Interesting. Who do I call? Some digital police force?

You're really off base on this. Yes, most are 30c/transaction but you forgot the 3% fee of whatever is bought. The merchant usually ends up eating that fee and for AMEX the cost is higher. Larger items have the same fees attached. The only thing that can lower those fees is if you have a lot of transactions and then the POS provider may cut that down to as low as 2.25%. If you do the math, that adds up signifcantly on big ticket and large quantity sales. Crypto fees are usually set at .001% of the coin being transfered regardless of how many coins are transferred.

I've seen these markups. Most large operations have the lower amount. If bitcoin is .001, then that will create market competition for electronic transactions. That would be good for all driving down the cost of electronic transactions. The big card companies need some competition to drive down prices. It's nice to see competition coming to Fintech. I'm all for it. Drive those electronic transaction costs down with the same level of security the big card companies provide and I'll hop on.

Thank you. By the way, here's my recieve bitcoin address which is only used for receiving in coins and this address is not able to xfer coins out of my wallet. That's a different address but the address is just as long as the receive is. Good luck hacking this.

bc1qjrn7ghnmsechw50dp8gvn5tcnxsn4jwq5vautv

Bitcoin technology is young. I'm sure it will get better.

Right now I"m risk off waiting for a bigger market drop to jump in. I feel like we're headed for another big economic drop, especially if China stalls or the U.S. finally has to deal with all the leverage from the low interest rates causing another bubble collapse. I want to be ready this time for the big drop. In 2001 I took a huge hit and it was awful. In 2008 I wasn't ready with sufficient capital. I can see it coming again as the bubble continues to build in equities and property from artificially low interest rates around the world. Imagine how bad this one will be with the entire world over-leveraged. It's going to be bad and I want to be ready to pick up cheap assets.

Aseahawkfan wrote:Neither party is getting control of spending. It's a long ways off and we won't have to survive it, but maybe your kids will see the bankruptcy. Who can say. America can reset fairly quick. Other nations crumbling has far more to do the nation itself than just the currency.

The Gold Standard has its own well-documented problems. I've ready extensively on The Gold Standard and do not support it. I would rather have some centralized computer system that tracks the exact amount of money in circulation and caps it. We have the means nowadays to use an electronic means of tight money tracking including hard caps.

First let me say I'm not here trying to convice you of anything. I respect your decision not to get involved with crypto. That said, I find it real interesting that you state the above that I highlighted when that is exactly what Crypto currency does.

So can call the cops or whatever agency to get my bitcoin back? Interesting. Who do I call? Some digital police force?

Yes, just like you would any crime. Depends on what happened though as to who you call. I know of a few crypto cases ongoing where the state's finance department and FBI are investigating a fraud situation and counterfeiting of a crypto currency. Other cases where theft is involved bring in local police dept. So it depends just like if someone stole your money off your refrigerator or someone passed you a phony $3 bill. Most of the time with Crypto though it will involve wire fraud which makes it a felony and most likely the FBI will be involved.

I've seen these markups. Most large operations have the lower amount. If bitcoin is .001, then that will create market competition for electronic transactions. That would be good for all driving down the cost of electronic transactions. The big card companies need some competition to drive down prices. It's nice to see competition coming to Fintech. I'm all for it. Drive those electronic transaction costs down with the same level of security the big card companies provide and I'll hop on.

Yes, I agree but the Fintech's aren't going to go quietly and they have some powerful lobbyist so it might take a little time. Just as a point of clarification though, that .001 needs a percent sign after it which will effectively move that number two more decimal places to the right. Not a big deal but I wanted to be more clear on that.

Bitcoin technology is young. I'm sure it will get better.

Definitely. Most people think that Bitcoin will not be the premier coin in the future, others say it will be. Its young and finding its footing and only those on the bleeding edge of this technology are really doing anything with it. Big risk - but there's also big rewards. It is not for everyone especially if a person's risk tolerance is low. Some people think that the blockchain technology is the future but they just aren't convinced it is going to be bitcoin. So healthy skepticism is warranted when looking into it.

Right now I"m risk off waiting for a bigger market drop to jump in. I feel like we're headed for another big economic drop, especially if China stalls or the U.S. finally has to deal with all the leverage from the low interest rates causing another bubble collapse. I want to be ready this time for the big drop. In 2001 I took a huge hit and it was awful. In 2008 I wasn't ready with sufficient capital. I can see it coming again as the bubble continues to build in equities and property from artificially low interest rates around the world. Imagine how bad this one will be with the entire world over-leveraged. It's going to be bad and I want to be ready to pick up cheap assets.

Its kind of funny but the Crypto market seems to be opposite of the fiat currency markets. When the dow took its big hit on Monday (down 700 points) Crypto Currency went up. I'm not sold on that phenomenon yet but I'm watching it to see if there is a trend to it.

idhawkman wrote:First let me say I'm not here trying to convice you of anything. I respect your decision not to get involved with crypto. That said, I find it real interesting that you state the above that I highlighted when that is exactly what Crypto currency does.

That's why I told you once crypto has the same protections as real money and a central agency backing them, I'll hop on. I'm not worried about crypto or electronic currency, i'm worried about too many agencies developing cryptos creating a massive decentralized market driven by supply-demand lines that are dangerous, volatile, and without any laws on the books for handling transactions. I like my currency backed by a government or government backed system with a means to get my money back or pursue criminals if something illegal happens and banks backing my money.

Crypto isn't much different than we deal with now with electronic money, just cheaper it seems to me. I like cheaper and I like competition.

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