HawkShack.com

According to David Kaye, a law professor tasked by the United Nations with researching freedom of expression and online content regulation:

“Governments are real offenders when it comes to disinformation,” Kaye said. “You know, governments are putting out false information. I mean, in my own country, the United States, the worst perpetrator of false information is the President of the United States.”

Fake News has always started and ended with Trump.

In 2018 trump averaged 15 falsehoods per day. Granted most politicians have a casual
Relationship with truth but this man is a pathological remorseless liar. People wonder why I say he’s nuts. His lying is of the disorder variety.

c_hawkbob wrote:Fake News has always started and ended with Trump.

Yeah, if there's anyone fit to assess such things in a rational, balanced manner, it's an academic tasked by the United Nations.

Trump is full of sh*t more often than not, but there's no one to blame for "FAKE NEWS" sticking like it does but CNN, NBC, ABC, CBS, AP, et al. Examples of them running articles/pieces firmly in the 'too good to verify' category are endless.

They bring it on themselves.

c_hawkbob wrote:According to David Kaye, a law professor tasked by the United Nations with researching freedom of expression and online content regulation:

“Governments are real offenders when it comes to disinformation,” Kaye said. “You know, governments are putting out false information. I mean, in my own country, the United States, the worst perpetrator of false information is the President of the United States.”

Fake News has always started and ended with Trump.

Trump literally pulls chit out of his arse, and some of it is truly laughable, like his claim that the problem with the wildfires was that CA was diverting water into the Pacific Ocean. IMO he doesn't even realize that he's wrong, that his mind dreams up something and he talks himself into believing it. The latest one was when he told our troops that he was giving them their first pay raise in 10 years and that he was giving them a 10% pay raise. The guy is full of more chit than a Christmas turkey.

burrrton wrote:
Yeah, if there's anyone fit to assess such things in a rational, balanced manner, it's an academic tasked by the United Nations.

Trump is full of sh*t more often than not, but there's no one to blame for "FAKE NEWS" sticking like it does but CNN, NBC, ABC, CBS, AP, et al. Examples of them running articles/pieces firmly in the 'too good to verify' category are endless.

They bring it on themselves.

Let’s don’t forget Faux fair and balanced. If everyone else is slanted against this administration they are literally the volunteer Pravda. Although that’s changing a bit as evidenced by Brian Kilmeade ripping Trump over his Syria policy on fox and friends. Bottom line is trump calling anything fake news is laughable.

burrrton wrote:
Yeah, if there's anyone fit to assess such things in a rational, balanced manner, it's an academic tasked by the United Nations.

Trump is full of sh*t more often than not, but there's no one to blame for "FAKE NEWS" sticking like it does but CNN, NBC, ABC, CBS, AP, et al. Examples of them running articles/pieces firmly in the 'too good to verify' category are endless.

They bring it on themselves.

Hawktawk wrote:Let’s don’t forget Faux fair and balanced.... Bottom line is trump calling anything fake news is laughable.

He has a point. Your omission of Fox raised my eyebrows as well.

I make it a point to watch equal amounts of Fox News and MSNBC just to make sure I'm getting both sides POV. There is no way that any rational, objective person cannot conclude that Fox is every bit as bias as the other, more liberal outlets, ie NBC, CNN, et al.

I watch a little more MSNBC( PMSNBC) as Rush likes to call it than Fox which I utterly avoided for a year and as half from halfway through 2016 when they started letting Trump call fox and friends every morning from his penthouse in his robe and slippers with a nice airbrushed photo where his hair actually looked somewhat normal.
I've begun giving them some time as Shep Smith, occasionally Neil Cavuto and now the shocker rant from Kilmeade have shown they are willing to actually criticize Trump again.

If he loses Fox he's toast. It's no coincidence that his approval rating at high 30%s mirrors almost exactly that of the % of people who get the overwhelming majority of their *news* from the network.If Nixon had a press outlet like them he'd have finished his term and rode off into the sunset.

Having perused the so called left wing networks I've found them to be left leaning but more centrist than Fox with republican spokesmen and politicians constantly being included in on air discussions and an open door for any republican to come on. Many just don't want to publicly defend the indefensible with seemingly never ending hubris and controversy.

I also like to look at alternative news sources such as Drudge. Breitbart was a fave until they went in the tank for the loon then they were banned from my reading list as well. Drudge was totally in the tank but has returned to delivering more and more anti trump pro mueller articles. Hannity is crashing in the ratings and was beaten by Rachel Maddow in the most recent nielsen ratings. He's not salvageable, no way for him to move to the center with the stands he's taken.

If HE was here HE would make it as simple as Possible for Seahawkbob to understand.

1. For the past 30 years the Ruling class has taken all the economic gains especially from increases in Productivity. The Bottom 90% have fallen behind every single year for the past 20 years.

2. The ruling class has sold out the American Worker through shitty trade deals and allowing the exporting of Middle class jobs to china, mexico and other countries. They did this because it puts a cap on wage increases AND it boost the Profits of the companies that they own.

3. The Ruling Class Owns the Mass Media.

4. The Ruling Class Owns the Democratic Party & The Traditional Republican Party.

5. President Trump is trying to reverse all the Ruling Class economic Warfare on the bottom 90% that has been waged for the past 30 years. Therefore the Ruling Class views President Trump as the biggest Threat in the Past 30 years.

6. The Ruling class uses the Mass Media to Miss-inform average people like seahawkbob to turn against president trump who is actually fighting them for the likes of seahawkbob.

7. The Ruling Class is using both traditional parties to block President Trumps economic agenda which is this simple - More Good Paying Jobs for Average Americans.

If HE was here he would tell you that only an idiot would think that President Trump has been treated fairly by the Ruling Class Owned Mass Media.

https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/media-trump-hatred-coverage

HE Will be Returning.....................Soon

The True Prophet wrote:If HE was here HE would make it as simple as Possible for Seahawkbob to understand.

1. For the past 30 years the Ruling class has taken all the economic gains especially from increases in Productivity. The Bottom 90% have fallen behind every single year for the past 20 years.

2. The ruling class has sold out the American Worker through shitty trade deals and allowing the exporting of Middle class jobs to china, mexico and other countries. They did this because it puts a cap on wage increases AND it boost the Profits of the companies that they own.

3. The Ruling Class Owns the Mass Media.

4. The Ruling Class Owns the Democratic Party & The Traditional Republican Party.

5. President Trump is trying to reverse all the Ruling Class economic Warfare on the bottom 90% that has been waged for the past 30 years. Therefore the Ruling Class views President Trump as the biggest Threat in the Past 30 years.

6. The Ruling class uses the Mass Media to Miss-inform average people like seahawkbob to turn against president trump who is actually fighting them for the likes of seahawkbob.

7. The Ruling Class is using both traditional parties to block President Trumps economic agenda which is this simple - More Good Paying Jobs for Average Americans.

If HE was here he would tell you that only an idiot would think that President Trump has been treated fairly by the Ruling Class Owned Mass Media.

https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/media-trump-hatred-coverage

HE Will be Returning.....................Soon

Well return or go away OK? and you're so full of it...https://sg.news.yahoo.com/hong-kong-rou ... nance.html.

Its so rich that anyone actually thinks this silver spoon fed shyster has anyone in mind but himself and his fellow rich cronies, especially the little guys . He inherited a 7 year economic expansion and equally long bull market run and it continued in pretty much linear fashion upwards other than the market spike which between zero return on bank accounts for a decade and a bunch of Goldman Sachs executives in the WH its pretty predictable that might happen. But its like Humpty dumpty, what goes up must go down and theres no hay in the barn, no china to bail us out with 3 trillion like 2008.

As he said to his cronies at Mar A Lago "I just made you all a lot richer"after signing his tax bill giving businesses a permanent cut from 35% (too high) to 20% (too low) as the budget deficit exploded to almost 3 times the size of Obama's final one. Meanwhile little guys like me got the crumbs that fell off the table and its temporary at that. If you think he's for the little guy talk to the little guys hes screwed over in his business dealings his whole life, The Trump Taj mahal subcontractors who were bankrupted by his bankruptcy while he flew away in a brand new 727. Talk to the tenants he's screwed over, the women he's groped, the 5 falsely accused black kids in new york he advocated in newspaper ads be executed like a good racist which he certainly is.

The guy is an unstable , unfit, morally bankrupt Ahole.The actual media writes negative stories about him because there's something to write about pretty much daily from this utter criminal enterprise.

RiverDog wrote:
Trump literally pulls chit out of his arse, and some of it is truly laughable, like his claim that the problem with the wildfires was that CA was diverting water into the Pacific Ocean. IMO he doesn't even realize that he's wrong, that his mind dreams up something and he talks himself into believing it. The latest one was when he told our troops that he was giving them their first pay raise in 10 years and that he was giving them a 10% pay raise. The guy is full of more chit than a Christmas turkey.

Still beating the california run off claim I see even after I put it to rest in the other thread. Keep it going though, it makes you look bad after the articles I posted.

REgarding the pay thing, he was wrong on the numbers. Quite a difference being wrong on numbers and lying. Did he give them their BIGGEST pay raise in 10 years? Did he raise the military overall budget by 10% or more?

RiverDog wrote:Your omission of Fox raised my eyebrows as well.

Oh for Pete's sake- if you want to throw FNC in there, too, go ahead (I have no doubt you'd be correct to do so). I was just running down a quick, off-the-top-of-my-head list of outlets I always hear Trump calling "FAKE NEWS".

Hawktawk wrote:

Well return or go away OK? and you're so full of it...https://sg.news.yahoo.com/hong-kong-rou ... nance.html.

Its so rich that anyone actually thinks this silver spoon fed shyster has anyone in mind but himself and his fellow rich cronies, especially the little guys . He inherited a 7 year economic expansion and equally long bull market run and it continued in pretty much linear fashion upwards other than the market spike which between zero return on bank accounts for a decade and a bunch of Goldman Sachs executives in the WH its pretty predictable that might happen. But its like Humpty dumpty, what goes up must go down and theres no hay in the barn, no china to bail us out with 3 trillion like 2008.

As he said to his cronies at Mar A Lago "I just made you all a lot richer"after signing his tax bill giving businesses a permanent cut from 35% (too high) to 20% (too low) as the budget deficit exploded to almost 3 times the size of Obama's final one. Meanwhile little guys like me got the crumbs that fell off the table and its temporary at that. If you think he's for the little guy talk to the little guys hes screwed over in his business dealings his whole life, The Trump Taj mahal subcontractors who were bankrupted by his bankruptcy while he flew away in a brand new 727. Talk to the tenants he's screwed over, the women he's groped, the 5 falsely accused black kids in new york he advocated in newspaper ads be executed like a good racist which he certainly is.

The guy is an unstable , unfit, morally bankrupt Ahole.The actual media writes negative stories about him because there's something to write about pretty much daily from this utter criminal enterprise.

LOL - You are a good guy who just has a .lot of Miss-information.

One day this will Trend on Twitter

#WakeUpFromYourBrainWashing

President Trump has done so much for the bottom 90% of Americans.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/trumps-list-289-accomplishments-in-just-20-months-relentless-promise-keeping

HE would tell you though that HE does agrees with you on the tax cut.

HE will be Returning...............Soon.

I already addressed this. The economic expansion started shortly after Obama took office, your own stats demonstrate that. I've heard it called the "obama" recovery but it might be more fair to call it the "bush recovery" since Obama had barely taken office when it started .Other than the stock market it has grown on basically a linear progression upwards exactly what it did the last year of Obama's administration. MOF slightly more jobs were filled in the last year of Obama than Trumps first year. More accurate would be the "china" recovery since they lent us trillions of dollars to stop the hemorrhaging in the wake of the cratering economy and market.

It is true there was 4.3 % growth in 2018 2nd quarter and that skewed the number over 3% for the year in large part due to manufacturers buying ahead to bypass the idiotic tariffs weighing on the global economy. Next year predicted growth is revised downward to about 2.3%. Housing booms are fading rapidly, in my own growing community its gone from a sellers market to a buyers market seemingly overnight.

I'm currently in manufacturing and our product which is used in construction is starting to stack up in the yard as demand for our product worldwide is slowing. We are under a hiring freeze and marginal employees are being walked out of the building daily.

I'm fully in agreement that some of the economic good news is as a result of policies put in place by guys like Steve Mnuchin and Gary Cohn while numb nuts tweets his lunacy and golfs but that's my point.

Any decent republican President would have delivered many of the same results without the daily S#1+ show.

As for Judges Love Gorsuch, again any republican president would, hate the lying drunk rapist who was only chosen due to his newfound position on presidential immunity from prosecution despite warnings from McConnell etc not to choose him as there were less controversial options.

Due to his lying and utterly partisan and disrespectful comments at the hearing there were 87 separate complaints of judicial misconduct presented to Judge Roberts but he punted it to a lower court in Colorado where he knew it would die due to current law.

Utterly pissed at this appointment.Trump accomplished getting a lying drunk rapist on the SCOTUS. Hip hip hooray buy when you brag about assaulting women on tape its not shocking. No other Republican president would have picked this weasel.

As for all the extreme right wing federal judges quite a few were rated "not qualified" but still sit in judgement with perspectives far to the right of where the heart and soul of this country is going more all the time.It's like america held hostage to this fiscal conservative but progressively centrist socially person.


But my bottom line is the dude is not a mentally fit, decent dignified human being. He conspired with our greatest geopolitical foe to win the election and attacks our free and adversarial press and law enforcement at the very highest levels daily. If his ilk win the day we are going to wind up a banana republic. That's more important than anything else to this patriot right here.
GO BOB MUELLER. Take out the trash.

If HE was here HE would tell you that Professional Politicians - Both Republicans & Democrats - are not only the biggest Liars you will come Across but they are also the Biggest "Hypocrites" you will ever encounter.

HE would also tell you Happy New Years & Hope you get a good of Laugh as HE did by looking at the following Link:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6540747/Obamas-wall-home-Trump-uses-former-couple-argue-border-barrier.html







HE will be Returning.............Soon.

RiverDog wrote:Your omission of Fox raised my eyebrows as well.

burrrton wrote:Oh for Pete's sake- if you want to throw FNC in there, too, go ahead (I have no doubt you'd be correct to do so). I was just running down a quick, off-the-top-of-my-head list of outlets I always hear Trump calling "FAKE NEWS".

Alright, I know that you're not a Trump Kool-Aid drinker so I'll accept your explanation that it was a simple oversight. But nevertheless, you do support Trump on more occasions than you don't and the ommision was curious as it excluded the biggest conservative news outlet on the planet yet included numerous liberal ones.

RiverDog wrote:Trump literally pulls chit out of his arse, and some of it is truly laughable, like his claim that the problem with the wildfires was that CA was diverting water into the Pacific Ocean. IMO he doesn't even realize that he's wrong, that his mind dreams up something and he talks himself into believing it. The latest one was when he told our troops that he was giving them their first pay raise in 10 years and that he was giving them a 10% pay raise. The guy is full of more chit than a Christmas turkey.

idhawkman wrote:Still beating the california run off claim I see even after I put it to rest in the other thread. Keep it going though, it makes you look bad after the articles I posted.

REgarding the pay thing, he was wrong on the numbers. Quite a difference being wrong on numbers and lying. Did he give them their BIGGEST pay raise in 10 years? Did he raise the military overall budget by 10% or more?

You didn't put Jack Chit to rest. I simply didn't feel the urge to reply, and won't on this occasion, either. You can be a very frustrating person to debate because you never accept facts that don't support your argument and will declare anything you don't like as fake news from the MSM, so there are times I just tune you out.

Secondly, I never said that Trump lied. I said that he pulls chit out of his arse. He's lazy, never does his homework and neither takes advice from his handlers or his speech writers so he just says whatever sounds good to him at the moment. He's a spoiled rich kid that's never had to do any research on his own or paid any penalty for situations where his instincts are wrong. IMO it's not a lie because he's talked himself into believing his falsehoods, meaning that he doesn't consciously say things that he knows isn't true.

And lastly, Trump was wrong on more than just the numbers regarding the pay raise to the troops. He said that he gave them their first pay raise in over 10 years, and that is false...and it's not the first time he's made that claim. From May of 2018:

Speaking to a crowd of military spouses on Wednesday, President Donald Trump incorrectly claimed that his administration gave service members their first pay raise in 10 years, a moment he was “proud” to oversee.

In fact, troops have seen a pay raise of at least 1 percent every year for more than 30 years. The 2018 military pay raise — which was 2.4 percent — was the largest for the armed forces in eight years.

https://www.militarytimes.com/pay-benef ... -a-decade/

Now I dare you to call the Military Times a liberal rag, MSN source of Fake News.

RiverDog wrote:You didn't put Jack Chit to rest. I simply didn't feel the urge to reply, and won't on this occasion, either. You can be a very frustrating person to debate because you never accept facts that don't support your argument and will declare anything you don't like as fake news from the MSM, so there are times I just tune you out.

Hmmm... sounds almost exactly like you except for pointing out the fake news you go find a link to it and post it.

Secondly, I never said that Trump lied. I said that he pulls chit out of his arse. He's lazy, never does his homework and neither takes advice from his handlers or his speech writers so he just says whatever sounds good to him at the moment.

And you know this how? Or did you pull that out of your arse?

He's a spoiled rich kid that's never had to do any research on his own or paid any penalty for situations where his instincts are wrong. IMO it's not a lie because he's talked himself into believing his falsehoods, meaning that he doesn't consciously say things that he knows isn't true.

This is really your beef with him. I don't think he should apologize for being born into opportunity nor should he be denegrated for it. Secondly, it sounds like you are calling him a liar in this section.

And lastly, Trump was wrong on more than just the numbers regarding the pay raise to the troops. He said that he gave them their first pay raise in over 10 years, and that is false...and it's not the first time he's made that claim. From May of 2018:

Speaking to a crowd of military spouses on Wednesday, President Donald Trump incorrectly claimed that his administration gave service members their first pay raise in 10 years, a moment he was “proud” to oversee.

In fact, troops have seen a pay raise of at least 1 percent every year for more than 30 years. The 2018 military pay raise — which was 2.4 percent — was the largest for the armed forces in eight years.

https://www.militarytimes.com/pay-benef ... -a-decade/

Now I dare you to call the Military Times a liberal rag, MSN source of Fake News.

So here's a question for you, if inflation or cost of living goes up 3% and you get a 1% raise did you really get a raise? Ask yourself what the cost of a hamburger was 10 years ago or even the cost of a basket full of groceries. Let me know how much higher those prices are today and then compare the "raises" the troops have gotten over those years. I think you'll find that they really haven't gotten a real pay raise in those years.

But nevertheless, you do support Trump on more occasions than you don't

I support him or hash him when I feel it's deserved. If that leads to more of one than the other, well, I don't know what to tell you. I don't base my criticism on some score I'm keeping in my head.

and the ommision was curious as it excluded the biggest conservative news outlet on the planet yet included numerous liberal ones.

It excluded an outlet he never mentions. Because I was quickly enumerating the outlets he mentions.

The True Prophet wrote:If HE was here HE would make it as simple as Possible for Seahawkbob to understand.

1. For the past 30 years the Ruling class has taken all the economic gains especially from increases in Productivity. The Bottom 90% have fallen behind every single year for the past 20 years.

2. The ruling class has sold out the American Worker through shitty trade deals and allowing the exporting of Middle class jobs to china, mexico and other countries. They did this because it puts a cap on wage increases AND it boost the Profits of the companies that they own.

3. The Ruling Class Owns the Mass Media.

4. The Ruling Class Owns the Democratic Party & The Traditional Republican Party.

5. President Trump is trying to reverse all the Ruling Class economic Warfare on the bottom 90% that has been waged for the past 30 years. Therefore the Ruling Class views President Trump as the biggest Threat in the Past 30 years.

6. The Ruling class uses the Mass Media to Miss-inform average people like seahawkbob to turn against president trump who is actually fighting them for the likes of seahawkbob.

7. The Ruling Class is using both traditional parties to block President Trumps economic agenda which is this simple - More Good Paying Jobs for Average Americans.

If HE was here he would tell you that only an idiot would think that President Trump has been treated fairly by the Ruling Class Owned Mass Media.

https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/media-trump-hatred-coverage

HE Will be Returning.....................Soon

Another Tinfoil hat wearer spouting crap about "the ruling class" in a nation where he's posting on the Internet using a computer or phone he bought from the "ruling class." You enjoying the tinfoil hat?

c_hawkbob wrote:Fake News has always started and ended with Trump.

I've been seeing fake news stories before Trump entered office, for years, in fact my whole life. Either fake news or stories that don't qualify as newsworthy. I listen to people all day who get their news from soundbytes, stories like you posted, and other short form media that doesn't elucidate very well about a situation. I get these people telling me this crap I look up and find out is completely false or contrived to make people think a certain way. Given they won't check any evidence to the contrary, people are pretty easy to fool.

One thing I will give you is Trump made the term "fake news" popular and has used it more effectively than any one I've seen. So in a way you are right. He uses the term "fake news" as a powerful weapon against those trying to take him down. So it did sort of start with him and may end with him.

As far as the misinformation and disinformation goes, that won't stop until people of the world start reading more which isn't going to happen any time soon. People love soundbytes and short form media to support their viewpoint even if it doesn't do a very good job of informing them. Trump uses the same type of information, part of why he isn't too bright of a president when it comes to history and so many other subjects. The nation isn't run by intellectuals. They advise, but very few Americans want anyone very smart in office. They want the person to seem smart, but not be too smart. They much prefer yappers. That's why lawyers do so well and scientists or academics not so much. You have to a manipulator to run a nation or you likely won't be successful dealing with the majority of fairly dumb politicians. Smart people make the majority of humans feel dumb, so they won't vote for them. People worry about a guy that seems too smart, makes them uncomfortable.

It excluded an outlet he never mentions. Because I was quickly enumerating the outlets he mentions.[/quote]

Why would he mention fox? Next to Vlad putin and killary Klingon they are most responsible for his own unfortunate election.

RiverDog wrote:But nevertheless, you do support Trump on more occasions than you don't

burrrton wrote:I support him or hash him when I feel it's deserved. If that leads to more of one than the other, well, I don't know what to tell you. I don't base my criticism on some score I'm keeping in my head.

I wasn't trying to gauge your support of Trump, more like putting two and two together. Your omission of Fox News, undoubtedly the most conservative news source in the country if not the world and an obvious Trump proponent, and your support of DJT on what appears to me to be the majority of time, made your honest oversight seem intentional. JMHO.

RiverDog wrote:...and the omission was curious as it excluded the biggest conservative news outlet on the planet yet included numerous liberal ones.

burrton wrote:It excluded an outlet he never mentions. Because I was quickly enumerating the outlets he mentions.

OK, fair enough. Hopefully you can see why it was I thought that your omission seemed "curious", which was a pretty inoffensive term not worthy of getting your briefs in a wad over. I'm sure that you'll agree that I can find lots more ways to be insulting if that were my objective.

BTW, Happy New Year!

I'm sure that you'll agree that I can find lots more ways to be insulting if that were my objective.

Indeed!

Happy New Year to you, too, and the same for everyone else. Here's to a great 2019.

c_hawkbob wrote:Fake News has always started and ended with Trump.

Aseahawkfan wrote:I've been seeing fake news stories before Trump entered office, for years, in fact my whole life. Either fake news or stories that don't qualify as newsworthy.

You're right, misinformation has been spread both intentionally and unintentionally forever. Saying that Fake News has always started and ended with Trump is a gross exaggeration. But Cbob's point is valid. Especially given how much he complains about unfair news coverage, Trump is the absolute worst offender of spreading and/or creating misinformation. I cannot recall a public figure that's responsible for as much "Fake News" as is DJT.

I cannot recall a public figure that's responsible for as much "Fake News" as is DJT.

But as you say: he's a public figure, not "the news".

IOW, Trump being full of sh*t is bog standard politician BS (maybe him more than most, but the point remains). The mainstream media being full of sh*t is a sad, recent development, one they brought on themselves because they couldn't maintain even the veneer of balance.

Politicians come and go. Our media having lost their credibility is a loss for our country.

RiverDog wrote:You're right, misinformation has been spread both intentionally and unintentionally forever. Saying that Fake News has always started and ended with Trump is a gross exaggeration. But Cbob's point is valid. Especially given how much he complains about unfair news coverage, Trump is the absolute worst offender of spreading and/or creating misinformation. I cannot recall a public figure that's responsible for as much "Fake News" as is DJT.

Because no president has been as active in self-promotion or social media as the president. Most presidents don't yap as much Trump. He can't help yapping half the time. For some folks like Idhawkman this is a likeable trait that he conflates with honest and open communication with the masses. For others like myself or you it seems like unprofessional, tactless, and unnecessary behavior. Then again none of us know what is going on in The White House. I have no idea how that place runs, but it sure seems like a gilded cage a lot of the time. Trump is probably the least controllable and least mainstream thinking president in history. He just don't give a flying damn. He's always pushing the envelope of what he can or cannot do or should or should not do.

burrrton wrote:But as you say: he's a public figure, not "the news".

IOW, Trump being full of sh*t is bog standard politician BS (maybe him more than most, but the point remains). The mainstream media being full of sh*t is a sad, recent development, one they brought on themselves because they couldn't maintain even the veneer of balance.

Politicians come and go. Our media having lost their credibility is a loss for our country.

From generic recall absent deeply researching the real roots, Fox News and Rush Limbaugh started media bias on a mass scale for ratings. Liberal media followed suit to compete. Seems market competition has made the news the way it is. It is more lucrative to have a biased media agenda that supports groups of people looking to have their two bit opinions validated.

burrrton wrote:But as you say: he's a public figure, not "the news".

IOW, Trump being full of sh*t is bog standard politician BS (maybe him more than most, but the point remains). The mainstream media being full of sh*t is a sad, recent development, one they brought on themselves because they couldn't maintain even the veneer of balance.

Politicians come and go. Our media having lost their credibility is a loss for our country.

The mainstream media has become so competitive that they concentrate almost exclusively on the sensational or outrageous. That's why they are zeroing in on Trump, because his blatant falsehoods and misinformation is so obvious that a 3rd grader can tell that they're bullchit. It's so stark and noticeable that it attracts viewers to the TV like flies to a turd.

Aseahawkfan wrote:From generic recall absent deeply researching the real roots, Fox News and Rush Limbaugh started media bias on a mass scale for ratings. Liberal media followed suit to compete. Seems market competition has made the news the way it is. It is more lucrative to have a biased media agenda that supports groups of people looking to have their two bit opinions validated.

The media bias has been around a long, long time. JFK benefited from a huge media bias, and not just from their overlooking his sexual escapades. The media loved JFK because he was one of them: A northeastern liberal, Ivy Leaguer that was well spoken, good looking, and had a sharp sense of humor. It was that bias that gave Nixon his paranoia that led to his problems during Watergate scandal.

IMO Limbaugh and talk radio, along with Fox News, evened the playing field. Up until then, the media was heavily biased towards liberals and the Dems.

RiverDog wrote:The media bias has been around a long, long time. JFK benefited from a huge media bias, and not just from their overlooking his sexual escapades. The media loved JFK because he was one of them: A northeastern liberal, Ivy Leaguer that was well spoken, good looking, and had a sharp sense of humor. It was that bias that gave Nixon his paranoia that led to his problems during Watergate scandal.

IMO Limbaugh and talk radio, along with Fox News, evened the playing field. Up until then, the media was heavily biased towards liberals and the Dems.

I wasn't born when Kennedy was around. I do not recall a liberal bias when I was young. Reagan was a well loved president. I didn't notice the severe media bias until Fox News and Rush Limbaugh made a business of being the mouthpiece for conservatives using talking heads that sounded more like your grandpa or uncle.

c_hawkbob wrote:
Fake News has always started and ended with Trump.

Wow. So just to be clear, you believed the Bay of Pigs and Gulf of Tonkin stories?

Aseahawkfan wrote: People worry about a guy that seems too smart, makes them uncomfortable.

Yeah, you can also say that people worry about a guy who was born into a successful family and then increased that family's wealth dramatically, too.

Aseahawkfan wrote:
Because no president has been as active in self-promotion or social media as the president. Most presidents don't yap as much Trump. He can't help yapping half the time. For some folks like Idhawkman this is a likeable trait that he conflates with honest and open communication with the masses. For others like myself or you it seems like unprofessional, tactless, and unnecessary behavior. Then again none of us know what is going on in The White House. I have no idea how that place runs, but it sure seems like a gilded cage a lot of the time. Trump is probably the least controllable and least mainstream thinking president in history. He just don't give a flying damn. He's always pushing the envelope of what he can or cannot do or should or should not do.

You're close Asea in this. I've been asking for transparency and an unbought government that works for the people for - well, as long as I can remember. Trump can't be bought as you point out and "He just don't give a flying damn" as you pointed out as to who wants to buy him off. Additionally, I would prefer my politicians to let us know what they are thinking and doing more often than to wake up in the morning and find out that what the President was doing was coordinating a $1.6B pallet full of unmarked cash being delivered to one of the axis of evils. I think if you ask most Americans, they'd rather the more openess than the midnight mauraders that work in the shadows at the five finger discount store at the stroke of midnight.

RiverDog wrote: It's so stark and noticeable that it attracts viewers to the TV like flies to a turd.

Its not just TV. TV often reports what is printed as their news stories.

Print has been forced into their current connundrum by the Internet. Here's how:

1. Subscriptions to rags is a thing of the past. Ads in printed newspapers have also dropped to all time lows because of the drop in subscribers AND they are ineffetive.

2. The only way the print rags can raise enough capital to keep their businesses afloat is to drive clicks to their websites via their articles and subsequently the ads on those pages which actually pay the bills.

3. Outrageous and sensational headlines, no matter how fake they are, drive the clicks which drive the value of the ads on the page. Many times, even if the article is false and has to be retracted the money has already been made by the initial clicks.

4. The outrageous headlines drive both political parties to the rag. The sypathetic folks will click on it to "get the dirt" whereas the opposition will click on it to find info to refute. So even a fake news piece encourages future folks to find the fake news in the next article or 10.

Bottom line, it is all about the clicks and nothing about the American people, the good of the country or anything other than the money. Its always about the money.

Aseahawkfan wrote:
I wasn't born when Kennedy was around. I do not recall a liberal bias when I was young. Reagan was a well loved president. I didn't notice the severe media bias until Fox News and Rush Limbaugh made a business of being the mouthpiece for conservatives using talking heads that sounded more like your grandpa or uncle.

Reagan was hated by the press and was often bashed by them. Not as severe as what they are doing to trump but it was bad. Remember, Rush didn't start until like '86 or '87 (toward the end of the Reagan presidency). Also, Liberals have tried to do what Rush has done but have failed miserably ever time they try it. Rush on the otherhand has given rise to such entities as Hannity and other conservative talk shows. Maybe because there's more people who agree with the conservative platforms than the progressive ones.

Aseahawkfan wrote:Reagan was a well loved president.

Asea, I'd correct you on this, but it's so wrong I'm not sure it needs correcting.

I didn't notice the severe media bias until Fox News and Rush Limbaugh made a business of being the mouthpiece for conservatives using talking heads that sounded more like your grandpa or uncle.

It's well documented that Limbaugh, and later Fox News, were a *reaction* to an overly-liberal media, not a cause of it.

Aseahawkfan wrote:
I wasn't born when Kennedy was around. I do not recall a liberal bias when I was young. Reagan was a well loved president. I didn't notice the severe media bias until Fox News and Rush Limbaugh made a business of being the mouthpiece for conservatives using talking heads that sounded more like your grandpa or uncle.

idhawkman wrote:Reagan was hated by the press and was often bashed by them. Not as severe as what they are doing to trump but it was bad. Remember, Rush didn't start until like '86 or '87 (toward the end of the Reagan presidency). Also, Liberals have tried to do what Rush has done but have failed miserably ever time they try it. Rush on the otherhand has given rise to such entities as Hannity and other conservative talk shows. Maybe because there's more people who agree with the conservative platforms than the progressive ones.

Now that's just revisionist history. Reagan was extremely well regarded while he was in office and even more so afterwards. Asea's got this one right on the nail head. The entire concept of the "Liberal left wing media" began with Limbaugh and his radio show. Before that if you'd said Liberal left wing media you'd have been thought to be referring to Rolling Stone Magazine. Reagan was as revered as Kennedy and Jimmy Carter was as made fun of and generally regarded the fool as Gerald Ford was. The notion of media bias, as least as it related to the public conscious began with far right underground (at the time) radio. It of course exploded with the advent of the internet and everyone choosing sides in the name of getting more clicks or more views, but it essentially didn't even used to be a thing.

Now that's just revisionist history. Reagan was extremely well regarded while he was in office and even more so afterwards.

No, the bolded part is revisionist history. He was mocked and ridiculed endlessly, and almost universally regarded as a 'dumb actor' who was going to usher in WW3.

Asea's got this one right on the nail head.

Yeah, nailed it, except for being 180 degrees off. Fairness doctrine was repealed in 1987, Limbaugh came onto the national scene a year later (iirc). That's not a coincidence.

RiverDog wrote:IMO Limbaugh and talk radio, along with Fox News, evened the playing field. Up until then, the media was heavily biased towards liberals and the Dems.

Aseahawkfan wrote:I wasn't born when Kennedy was around. I do not recall a liberal bias when I was young. Reagan was a well loved president. I didn't notice the severe media bias until Fox News and Rush Limbaugh made a business of being the mouthpiece for conservatives using talking heads that sounded more like your grandpa or uncle.

I was 6 years old when Kennedy was elected, so I don't have first hand experience. But there is lots of information out there that one can examine. First off, the entire White House press corps at that time was from the Northeast, just like Kennedy was. They adored him, threw him softball questions in press conferences, laughed at his jokes. Ben Bradlee (of Watergate fame) and JFK literally drank out of the same bottle and slept with the same women. Kennedy had the best relationship with the press than any candidate in the 20th century. Heck, even the famous first televised debate was somewhat rigged as Nixon was told that there would be a dark backdrop, so he wore a light colored suit. When the debate started, the backdrop was light, and Kennedy looked like a million bucks in his dark suit coat while Nixon looked old and haggared.

I'll never forget a poll taken in of the White House press corps during the 1992 election where 89% voted for Clinton, 7% for Bush 41, and 2% for Perot.

Mr. Noyes pointed out that a historic poll of Washington media bureau chiefs and correspondents found that just 7 percent voted for George H.W. Bush in 1992, vs. 89 percent who voted for Bill Clinton — reflecting a longtime liberal bias in the press. Two percent opted for independent Ross Perot.

“Washington-based reporters preferred Clinton 12 to 1,” the survey said at the time.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... s-voted-f/

And here's an article I ran across during my research that supports the liberal bias:

n 1992, nine of the White House correspondents surveyed voted for Democrat Bill Clinton, two for Republican George H. W. Bush, and one for independent Ross Perot.

In 1988, 12 voted for Democrat Michael Dukakis, one for Bush.
In 1984, 10 voted for Democrat Walter Mondale, zero for Ronald Reagan.
In 1980, eight voted for Democrat Jimmy Carter, four for liberal independent John Anderson, and two voted for Ronald Reagan.
In 1976, 11 voted for Carter, two for Republican Gerald Ford.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/7406/pol ... on-bandler

That type of bias doesn't occur overnight.

c_hawkbob wrote:Now that's just revisionist history. Reagan was extremely well regarded while he was in office and even more so afterwards. Asea's got this one right on the nail head. The entire concept of the "Liberal left wing media" began with Limbaugh and his radio show. Before that if you'd said Liberal left wing media you'd have been thought to be referring to Rolling Stone Magazine. Reagan was as revered as Kennedy and Jimmy Carter was as made fun of and generally regarded the fool as Gerald Ford was. The notion of media bias, as least as it related to the public conscious began with far right underground (at the time) radio. It of course exploded with the advent of the internet and everyone choosing sides in the name of getting more clicks or more views, but it essentially didn't even used to be a thing.

Reagan was well liked by a lot of people, but not by the press. Burrton is correct. Regagan was lampooned by the press. They'd zero in on honest stumbles, like his saying "million" (of dollars) when he meant "billion". And who can forget Sam Donaldson and Sarah Thomas. I never saw news reporters get into arguments with other POTUS's in news conferences like those folks did with Reagan...at least not prior to 2017.

You're right about Carter being treated very unfavorably during his tenure in the White House, ie his brother Billy, the killer rabbit, even sitcoms like Carter Country mocked his southern roots. IMO it was a regional bias vs. a political one. But not during the 1976 campaign. At the time, Carter was trumpeted as a moral crusader that wa going to clean up Washington DC after the Watergate scandal.

Agreed about the media bias being exposed when Limbaugh hit the air. You couldn't count on the media doing an objective analysis on themselves.

RiverDog wrote:In 1984, 10 voted for Democrat Walter Mondale, zero for Ronald Reagan.

One of the largest electoral landslides in history for REAGAN and ZERO voted for him. That just about says it all doesn't it?