Trump Declares Victory Over ISIS

[RiverDog]

As is his style, President Trump went it alone, blindsiding the Pentagon and our allies by declaring victory over ISIS in Syria and announced troop withdrawals.

Military leaders, including Defense Secretary Jim Mattis, in recent weeks and months have spoken of the need for U.S. troops to remain in the eastern part of the country to help stabilize it and allow for peace negotiations to proceed.

Even his most ardent supporters were aghast, with Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham calling it "fake news."

In a late-night speech on the Senate floor on Wednesday, Sen. Lindsey Graham railed against President Donald Trump's decision to pull troops from Syria, calling the decision "disastrous" and a "stain on the honor" of the U.S.

The South Carolina Republican said the president's claim, which Trump included in a video to his Twitter on Wednesday, that the Islamic State had been defeated was "fake news." Graham said he'd just gotten back from a trip to the Middle East and knew for a fact that it was "inaccurate."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 371745002/

Could this be an attempt by Trump to distract attention from his domestic problems?

[idhawkman]

I don't think so. I think it is a shot across the bow of the dems and reps in congress.

Last week they signed a paper in the Senate admonishing Saudi Arabia for the Kashoggi issue and stated that the white house was in violation of the War Powers act with the support of Saudi Arabia in Yemen. They ignored his calls to not over do it on Saudi even after he sanctioned 17 Saudi's for the incident.

This week they don't want to fund the $5B for the wall. What do you think it costs us in Syria to wage that war for 2200 military advisors, air support from Turkey, etc. He said he would find the money for the wall somewhere and this may be a convenient place to find it. Additionally, The Turks have told Trump that they are going to go after the KKR (Kurds in Syria) very soon and that if we are caught up in that it is our fault. We also rent air base space from Turkey. So maybe it is a way to not bring us into direct conflict with a NATO ally. Maybe it is to punish them for the threat and take away the money from the base. There's lots of things that need to be considered here.

Lastly, We have never established a vote in congress authorizing the military actions in Syria (just like Yemen). So maybe he's making another statement that if we are in violation in Yemen, then we are in violation in Syria. There's lots of people making lots of money off the Syrian action but not necessarily off the Yemeni action. Maybe that is a reason they are squealing like a pig over this move. That said, Senator Mike Lee (whom I think some of you voted for) backs the president in this move since the top brass at the pentagon has never been able to explain to him what the goal in Syria is. Overthrow of the president? Replace him with what? Defeat ISIS but then what? Who are we suppose to work with to establish a government there? When would we leave? When the current president dies? Do we start a fight with Russia? What's the goal? Why are we risking our young boy's lives over there? What's the goal?

So I see this as a very leveraged move by Trump in so many areas.

[idhawkman]

A couple more thoughts on this.

1. One of the things that Trump railed against Obama about was announcing when they were going to leave the war zone or that they were going to attack a target before actually doing it. Basically telling the enemy to wait out a situation or leave a certain town ahead of time. Trump hasn't done this at all and in fact will eat cake with you while the military is bombing the sh@t out of someone. So "springing" this on poeple is in keeping with his stated position. I do give a nod toward the sr military folks telling him not to do it but he also ran on NOT nation building which is what is left in Syria. If you (congress) don't want to spend $5B to help build and secure our nation why would he want to spend more than that on another nation?

2. It definitely has shifted the news cycle.

I don't think any one thing above or in my previous post made up his mind but as it all combines, probably tipped the balance on pulling this trigger - pun intended.

[RiverDog]

Well, whatever his motivation, it's clear that he did not consult with anyone in the Pentagon, State Department, and so on. He just acted, and now everyone's trying to catch up.

I don't know enough about the situation on the ground to conclude that an exit from the war zone is appropriate or not, but I do think the fact that a Republican Senator that at least used to be in Trump's camp is differing with him so dramatically using blunt language that you'd expect to hear out of someone like Chuck Schumer is very telling.

This is just one more demonstration why I think that Trump is a poor leader: He governs from the seat of his pants. He's not making any attempt to get any information or consider any options.

[idhawkman]

Well, whatever his motivation, it's clear that he did not consult with anyone in the Pentagon, State Department, and so on. He just acted, and now everyone's trying to catch up.

You are jumping to conclusions on this. From what I've seen he did consult with Mattis but decided to go different than what Mattis' opinion was.

I don't know enough about the situation on the ground to conclude that an exit from the war zone is appropriate or not, but I do think the fact that a Republican Senator that at least used to be in Trump's camp is differing with him so dramatically using blunt language that you'd expect to hear out of someone like Chuck Schumer is very telling.

Which senator? Graham or Rubio? Rubio was just on Fox News an hour ago suggesting that we go to war with a non NATO ally against a NATO member. How's that suppose to work?

This is just one more demonstration why I think that Trump is a poor leader: He governs from the seat of his pants. He's not making any attempt to get any information or consider any options.

Again speculation on your part. He's gotten input but he's also sticking with his campaign promise not to keep us in a country to rebuild it - especially if the people of that country don't want to rebuild it on our ideals but on the same failed policies they've had for centuries.

[Aseahawkfan]

Turkey is an ally on paper like Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. Meaning not really and they'll screw us as soon as it is in their best interest to do so. The only interesting question is do we let Turkey take power from Saudi Arabia as they are trying to do. They are orchestrating the conflict with Saudi Arabia in an attempt to build a power base in the middle east they haven't had for ages.

[idhawkman]

Turkey is an ally on paper like Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. Meaning not really and they'll screw us as soon as it is in their best interest to do so. The only interesting question is do we let Turkey take power from Saudi Arabia as they are trying to do. They are orchestrating the conflict with Saudi Arabia in an attempt to build a power base in the middle east they haven't had for ages.

I don't disagree with anything you say here. Turkey is part of NATO though and we don't have a war powers authorization to be backing the Kurds especially against a NATO member. Turkey advised us to get out of their way as they view the KKR as a terrorist group. We are backing the KKR but without the authorization of Congress. We don't have an end game goal in mind let alone a way to get to it. So why would he want to continue to sink good money and lives into a quagmire like that?

[idhawkman]

By the way, you could see this coming when they blew up the Kashoggi incident on the world stage. They will screw us when it is in their benefit, no doubt. But what is the alternative that we have on this issue? Fight the Turks, Russians, Syrians, Iranians with 2200 SF soldiers? Technically, we could be brought up on war crimes since we have no authorization from the U.N. or congress to do this.

[c_hawkbob]

blew up the Kashoggi incident

Blew up huh? So murder and dismemberment of critical journalists is just business as usual in Trumpworld huh? ... The stuff you're OK marginalizing blows me away.

[RiverDog]

Which senator? Graham or Rubio?

Graham. I referred to him in the OP.

And of course, this morning Trump is backing away from his claim yesterday that ISIS was defeated:

President Donald Trump on Thursday seemed walk back his claim that ISIS, also known as the Islamic State Group, has been totally defeated, which he had cited a day before as the reason for his decision to abruptly pull US troops out of Syria.

Trump on Thursday tweeted that his decision to pull roughly 2,000 US troops out of Syria means other countries, including US adversaries, will have to continue the fight against ISIS.

"Does the USA want to be the Policeman of the Middle East, getting NOTHING but spending precious lives and trillions of dollars protecting others who, in almost all cases, do not appreciate what we are doing? Do we want to be there forever? Time for others to finally fight," Trump said.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-i ... ut-2018-12

So in just one day's time, the excuse for the sudden decision to pull out has gone from the war has been won to let others continue the fight. Seat of the pants decision making.

[RiverDog]

Sounds like Trump lost his Defense Secretary over this seat of the pants decision:

Mattis resignation letter:

“Because you have the right to a Secretary of Defense whose views are better aligned with yours on these and other subjects, I believe it is right for me to step down from my position”

https://keprtv.com/news/nation-world/tr ... D34tFsfM6A

[idhawkman]

Blew up huh? So murder and dismemberment of critical journalists is just business as usual in Trumpworld huh? ... The stuff you're OK marginalizing blows me away.

Yes Bob, bad things happen everyday all over the world. reporters are routinely put in death camps in China and Russia but no one is throwing a hissy fit over it. This was blown up because Turkey wanted to drive a wedge between the US and Saudi Arabia in order to become a dominant player in the middle east. Looks like their plan has worked. isn't it interesting though how the Turks had a recording of something that happened INSIDE the Saudi Arabian embassy? Think they may also be listening in on our embassy conversations?

[idhawkman]

Sounds like Trump lost his Defense Secretary over this seat of the pants decision:

Mattis resignation letter:

“Because you have the right to a Secretary of Defense whose views are better aligned with yours on these and other subjects, I believe it is right for me to step down from my position”

https://keprtv.com/news/nation-world/tr ... D34tFsfM6A

You post this like it is new news. Trump is also now talking about a major drawdown of our forces in Afgahnistan. Let me guess, 17 years wasn't enough, right? how many years and what end result do we want there? Can you see where it would be in Syria 15 years from now? Same place, right. How much blood sweat and money do you want to give to Syria? Also, what do we gain by being there 15 more years. Can we weigh that gain against the cost in life and fortune?

America First doesn't mean we build nations abroad for others while we continue to go deeper into debt and mortgage our kids futures.

[Aseahawkfan]

I don't disagree with anything you say here. Turkey is part of NATO though and we don't have a war powers authorization to be backing the Kurds especially against a NATO member. Turkey advised us to get out of their way as they view the KKR as a terrorist group. We are backing the KKR but without the authorization of Congress. We don't have an end game goal in mind let alone a way to get to it. So why would he want to continue to sink good money and lives into a quagmire like that?

We been doing that for years. Sure, I'd love to see a president pull us out of the Middle East. Say Israel you're on your own and completely sever all relations but business with that area the world. They are people that need to learn to progress on their own. If they want to live in some ass backwards religiously driven cesspool, so be it. I'm tired of getting involved in tribal fights and other BS from that region.

We're not going to do that because of oil. Until oil is done as a primary energy source, that area of the world holds a lot of power.

[Aseahawkfan]

Yes Bob, bad things happen everyday all over the world. reporters are routinely put in death camps in China and Russia but no one is throwing a hissy fit over it. This was blown up because Turkey wanted to drive a wedge between the US and Saudi Arabia in order to become a dominant player in the middle east. Looks like their plan has worked. isn't it interesting though how the Turks had a recording of something that happened INSIDE the Saudi Arabian embassy? Think they may also be listening in on our embassy conversations?

Doesn't change the fact Saudi Arabia are scumbags we shouldn't be doing business with much less having a sitting president talking about them as good folk that buy his "40 or 50 million dollar apartments." Still not sure why you think that is in anyway an America first policy or an attitude that represents you.

[Aseahawkfan]

Graham. I referred to him in the OP.

And of course, this morning Trump is backing away from his claim yesterday that ISIS was defeated:

President Donald Trump on Thursday seemed walk back his claim that ISIS, also known as the Islamic State Group, has been totally defeated, which he had cited a day before as the reason for his decision to abruptly pull US troops out of Syria.

Trump on Thursday tweeted that his decision to pull roughly 2,000 US troops out of Syria means other countries, including US adversaries, will have to continue the fight against ISIS.

"Does the USA want to be the Policeman of the Middle East, getting NOTHING but spending precious lives and trillions of dollars protecting others who, in almost all cases, do not appreciate what we are doing? Do we want to be there forever? Time for others to finally fight," Trump said.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-i ... ut-2018-12

So in just one day's time, the excuse for the sudden decision to pull out has gone from the war has been won to let others continue the fight. Seat of the pants decision making.

Another strong American driven from the Trump administration as he backs down from Russia, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, and Turkey, while badmouthing our Canadian and European allies. Unbelievable that a U.S. president would speak better of tyrannical, scumbag nations that want nothing good for us while speaking ill of quality allies that have stood with us on many occasions through thick and thin.

That's why I find it amusing that some think Trump is racist. He's only "racist" against one group: those that are against him. If you have money and can buy his apartments, you're "good people" in Trump's book. I guess his supporters believe this well. I guess they think he's more right than a long-serving American general like Mattis. That's where we're at I guess.

Trump can do no wrong. All his advisers quitting because of his ridiculous policies are wrong. Only Trump is right I guess. He never makes any stupid decisions. Just buy what he is selling. He obviously owns the minds of those that believe in him.

[idhawkman]

Doesn't change the fact Saudi Arabia are scumbags we shouldn't be doing business with much less having a sitting president talking about them as good folk that buy his "40 or 50 million dollar apartments." Still not sure why you think that is in anyway an America first policy or an attitude that represents you.

You acknowledged it yourself in your previous post about oil. America first is putting the mom and pop who drive to work everyday and pay for gas first until we can ween them off of the mideast oil and supply it all ourself at the same price.

[Aseahawkfan]

The only guy that gave Trump any measure of honor has left his administration. Now it just supporters that drink his snake oil remaining.

[RiverDog]

Another strong American driven from the Trump administration as he backs down from Russia, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, and Turkey, while badmouthing our Canadian and European allies. Unbelievable that a U.S. president would speak better of tyrannical, scumbag nations that want nothing good for us while speaking ill of quality allies that have stood with us on many occasions through thick and thin.

That's why I find it amusing that some think Trump is racist. He's only "racist" against one group: those that are against him. If you have money and can buy his apartments, you're "good people" in Trump's book. I guess his supporters believe this well. I guess they think he's more right than a long-serving American general like Mattis. That's where we're at I guess.

Trump can do no wrong. All his advisers quitting because of his ridiculous policies are wrong. Only Trump is right I guess. He never makes any stupid decisions. Just buy what he is selling. He obviously owns the minds of those that believe in him.

Sad, isn't it? Mattis was the one member of Trump's cabinet that I really liked. He's from the Tri-Cites and actually came out here a year ago and mingled with a bunch of folks down at a country music joint in Prosser. Irish Greg has met him and speaks highly of him, said that Mattis had seeked him out, came up behind him and said "what's up, Chief?" Both of these events occurred when Mattis had been named Defense Secretary. Now Trump is placing his judgement over a career military officer that many say was a moderating influence in the Administration. Now Trump will just find someone that will tell him what he wants to hear.

[RiverDog]

I don't know enough about the situation on the ground to conclude that an exit from the war zone is appropriate or not, but I do think the fact that a Republican Senator that at least used to be in Trump's camp is differing with him so dramatically using blunt language that you'd expect to hear out of someone like Chuck Schumer is very telling.

Which senator? Graham or Rubio? Rubio was just on Fox News an hour ago suggesting that we go to war with a non NATO ally against a NATO member. How's that suppose to work?

At that time, Rubio hadn't read Mattis' resignation letter. Now that he's read it, here's his reaction:

Trump first announced the news of Mattis' departure on Twitter, portraying it as a retirement. Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Fla., attempted an optimistic view, saying he hoped the general's "decision to resign was motivated solely by a desire to enjoy a well deserved retirement."

That sentiment was quickly replaced, however, after Rubio read Mattis' letter — which did not include any praises or compliments of the president and implicitly criticized the president's military judgment.

To Rubio, the letter "makes it abundantly clear that we are headed towards a series of grave policy errors which will endanger our nation, damage our alliances & empower our adversaries." He also pressed for more oversight of the executive branch by Congress.

And here's a comment from another Republican Senator:

This is a sad day for America because Secretary Mattis was giving advice the President needs to hear," Sen. Ben Sasse, R-Neb., said in a statement.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congre ... ll-n950651

Trump had better start listening to folks like Graham, Rubio, and Sasse. He might need their support somewhere down the road.

[idhawkman]

Maybe Rubio should gather his fellow congressmen and pass a war powers act so that Trump has other options then. Right now, if Turkey invades then we are going to be in open fire conflict with another NATO ally. Additionally, the war we are waging in Turkey is supported by air from an airbase in.... wait for it.... That's right, Turkey. Think they'll let us keep the base to attack their troops to support our ODAs on the ground? So where do we move our air base to? That's right, Saudi Arabia which the Senators just said they won't accept any new arms agreements with because of the Kashoggi incident. (Sorry Bob but it was an incident in my mind and not the end of the world. Maybe now people can see the chess game that Turkey has been playing and our Senate and media went head long into it.)

Without UN approval, without our own congress' approval and without NATO approval the president can only commit war crimes by leaving our troops exposed in Syria.

Remember what got us into that mess. Obama drew a line in the sand he didn't back up. He then spend $1B (with a B) to train 10 Syrians. He then let the Russians into Syria. Then Trump comes in to clean it up. NONE of it authorized. We've done what we could there. Time to get our boys and girls out of there and bring them home.

[idhawkman]

Meanwhile, Venezuela is in systemic collapse and inviting Russia into their country. We have 75 known terrorists arrested at the southern border every month (and those are the ones we catch), France is still burning and we are worried about Syria where no one, not even Mattis can give Trump and end state goal. Just stay there in case a new radical group pops up and in the meantime lose a few soldiers every month and get into a hot war with an ally while allowing Assad to continue governing with Russian influence.

[Aseahawkfan]

I have to say I agree with Trump on this one if the stories are true. Pull out troops home. Our people shouldn't be fighting for other folks that won't stop fighting and screwing each other. Let the Middle Eastern powermongers and backstabbers take of their own issues. We need to pull out of that area, push for oil alternatives, build a non-oil based energy infrastructure as fast as possible, and let that area of the world modernize or burn itself down. They have been using the United States too long for their personal and ridiculous feuds all for control of the oil. I've been tired of that for ages. For all his shortcomings, at least Trump is saying screw these stupid wars. Bring our people home.

[burrrton]

For all his shortcomings, at least Trump is saying screw these stupid wars.

There are smart, responsible ways to end conflicts, and there are moronic, self-defeating ways to end conflicts- Mattis' reaction, and Trump's reaction to that, should tell you which this is.

Mattis is arguably the best Secretary of Defense in recent memory, and easily the most competent, qualified member of the administration, and dumbsht doesn't even fcking run it by him (at least from what I've read)?

Inexcusable, and gives my optimism about surviving 4-8 years of this boob a big hit.

[RiverDog]

There are smart, responsible ways to end conflicts, and there are moronic, self-defeating ways to end conflicts- Mattis' reaction, and Trump's reaction to that, should tell you which this is.

Mattis is arguably the best Secretary of Defense in recent memory, and easily the most competent, qualified member of the administration, and dumbsht doesn't even fcking run it by him (at least from what I've read)?

Inexcusable, and gives my optimism about surviving 4-8 years of this boob a big hit.

Mattis isn't the only one that's resigning. Brett McKurk, our special envoy to the international coalition formed to defeat ISIS, is also resigning due to Trump's decision.

It's just another example of why Trump is such a pi$$ poor leader. He makes decisions by the seat of his pants, without consulting a single person. I've never seen a person with such flawed decision making.

[idhawkman]

Trump is keeping his promises whether you all like it or not. That IS leadership. As Chris Christie said on the weekend show, we voted for a disruptor because the American people were fed up with both sides of congress and D.C. in general. Now some of the people who voted for him may not like this much disruption but the ones who didn't vote for him (most if not all of you), will never understand that this is what we wanted.

[RiverDog]

Trump is keeping his promises whether you all like it or not. That IS leadership.

Marching people off the edge of a cliff is leadership, too. I never said that Trump wasn't a leader. What I said was that he's a pi$$ poor one.

I don't know why he even bothers to appoint cabinent positions.

[burrrton]

Trump is keeping his promises whether you all like it or not. That IS leadership.

ID, this simply isn't a defensible decision. Even if you think it's best to get troops out of that sh*thole (reasonable people can debate that), this was not in the same area code of the proper way to do it.

[idhawkman]

Merry Chistmas all. No politics today for me. I'll respond tomorrow.

[RiverDog]

Trump is keeping his promises whether you all like it or not. That IS leadership.

ID, this simply isn't a defensible decision. Even if you think it's best to get troops out of that sh*thole (reasonable people can debate that), this was not in the same area code of the proper way to do it.

Oh, don't you worry. He'll come up with something along the lines of Trump being the smartest man in the world.

[Hawktawk]

ID, this simply isn't a defensible decision. Even if you think it's best to get troops out of that sh*thole (reasonable people can debate that), this was not in the same area code of the proper way to do it.

This is exactly my point as well regarding this particular subject. One can EASILY make the case yeah or nay for foreign deployments anywhere in the world but only the true believer 20 something % STRONG trump supporters can justify tweeting out these commands after hanging up the phone with Turkish despot Erogadan , essentially doing his and Putin's bidding without bothering to consult the affected nations or even your own highly respected Sec of Defense.

Its rich how the semi literate Trump was initially full of praise at Mattis "retirement" and only after cable news was able to interpret for him how utterly cutting and skewering the resignation letter was suddenly he was gone first of the year. He reportedly became angrier and angrier the more television he watched. Now we have an "acting Sec of defense with no foreign policy or Military experience running the show.

3 million less americans voted for Trump than Hillary, easily the worst Dem candidate in history.

I keep hearing how people voted for a "disrupter". Thats only true for the 20 someting %b hard core. Many simply cast a vote against clinton including an amazing 25% of trump voters who said in exit polling he didn't have the temperament to serve but voted for him anyway.My best friend voted for him because he was a businessman as is my friend but has never approved of the tweeting and unhinged behavior. Looking at what's going on in our foreign policy, around the world with our *allies* and geopolitical foes,at home in the markets(401 K Trumpies beware) its clear we don't need this much of a disrupter.

We need sanity, calmness, competency, the ability to read and write and comprehend the english language. We need Pence.....

[RiverDog]

Its rich how the semi literate Trump was initially full of praise at Mattis "retirement" and only after cable news was able to interpret for him how utterly cutting and skewering the resignation letter was suddenly he was gone first of the year. He reportedly became angrier and angrier the more television he watched. Now we have an "acting Sec of defense with no foreign policy or Military experience running the show.

I'm curious as to the explanation as to the Trump's announcing that Mattis was "retiring" vs. Mattis's letter saying that he was resigning due to policy differences. Did Trump not read the letter and/or was unaware of Mattis's comments? Had he read it and chose to twist the facts by changing a resignation into a retirement not expecting the letter to be disclosed to save himself some embarrassment?

It doesn't make a lot of difference unless you're a faithful that claims that we always get a straight story from the POTUS.

And just a fun fact: This is the first time in our nation's history that a Secretary of Defense (or their predecessor Secretary of War) has resigned due to policy differences with the POTUS.

[Hawktawk]

I'm curious as to the explanation as to the Trump's announcing that Mattis was "retiring" vs. Mattis's letter saying that he was resigning due to policy differences. Did Trump not read the letter and/or was unaware of Mattis's comments? Had he read it and chose to twist the facts by changing a resignation into a retirement not expecting the letter to be disclosed to save himself some embarrassment?

It doesn't make a lot of difference unless you're a faithful that claims that we always get a straight story from the POTUS.

And just a fun fact: This is the first time in our nation's history that a Secretary of Defense (or their predecessor Secretary of War) has resigned due to policy differences with the POTUS.

Trumps tweet was designed to get out ahead of the narrative. It was interesting that it was Mattis and the DOD that released the full text of Mattis resignation letter as opposed to the WH in order to set the record straight.

It is reported Trump read Mattis letter back to him word for word after Mattis resigned face to face and still did not grasp the significance of what was said until watching cable news. It is also a fact that tough guy Trump sent Mike Pompeo to deliver the news to Mattis of his abrupt departure rather than man up and deliver it face to face or at least by phone. Its in keeping with his internet tough guy real world wimp reputation having longtime bodyguard Keith Schiller hand deliver the letter of termination to James Comey in LA after he had already heard in news reports he had been fired.

You are also correct that this is the first time in modern political history a Sec of Defense has resigned in protest. Unprecedented, or as Trump said in one of a zillion misspelled tweets "unpresidented" LOL indeed we can only hope and soon....

[RiverDog]

Trumps tweet was designed to get out ahead of the narrative. It was interesting that it was Mattis and the DOD that released the full text of Mattis resignation letter as opposed to the WH in order to set the record straight.

It is reported Trump read Mattis letter back to him word for word after Mattis resigned face to face and still did not grasp the significance of what was said until watching cable news. It is also a fact that tough guy Trump sent Mike Pompeo to deliver the news to Mattis of his abrupt departure rather than man up and deliver it face to face or at least by phone. Its in keeping with his internet tough guy real world wimp reputation having longtime bodyguard Keith Schiller hand deliver the letter of termination to James Comey in LA after he had already heard in news reports he had been fired.

You are also correct that this is the first time in modern political history a Sec of Defense has resigned in protest. Unprecedented, or as Trump said in one of a zillion misspelled tweets "unpresidented" LOL indeed we can only hope and soon....

First off, I noticed that you figured out how to format your response so that it's legible. Secondly, I noticed that you used far fewer colorful adjectives in your descriptions of DJT. Kudos on both counts!

I agree with the first part of your response pertaining to the explanation of the differences between Trump's calling the Mattis departure as a "retirement" and his resignation letter being due to policy differences. Trump has this habit of believing what he wants to believe, and I think it entirely possible that he could have read the Mattis resignation letter and not grasped the significance of it.

But I'm not ready to believe that he "chickened out" by sending a surrogate to tell Mattis of his earlier than anticipated departure. If there's one thing that he hasn't done, it's shy away from a conflict. Indeed, he seems to seek them out at every opportunity.

[idhawkman]

Love the spin by all of you but reality is that you don't know what happened in the oval office and what was said or understood. What is known is that when it became clear that Mattis was going to try and sway allies at the Nato meeting Trump relieved him sooner. We don't need a bad apple trying to turn the fruit around him as he rots.

WHen I was in Special Ops training, if a candidate quit no matter how close to days end, his bunk was rolled up and his locker clean by the time we hit the barracks. There's a reason for that, you don't want him tainting the fruit around him (us, the ones still in the training). Same with Mattis once it was clear that he would be a bad apple with our allies.

By the way, I see no one posting about the hundreds of ISIS fighters that were killed in our air strikes over the weekend and nothing about Turkey affirming that they will continue to kill off ISIS as well as Saudi obligating money to rebuild Syria. I know it doesn't fit your narratives but in two years it is going to have a huge impact on the 2020 reelection of Trump.

[idhawkman]

Crickets over POTUS and FLOTUS visiting the troops in Iraq today? I wonder why....

[burrrton]

Crickets over POTUS and FLOTUS visiting the troops in Iraq today? I wonder why....

I'm avoiding the news as much as possible during my couple weeks off, but that sounds like a good, Presidential thing to do (have done?).

More of that, please, and less of the other.

[RiverDog]

Love the spin by all of you but reality is that you don't know what happened in the oval office and what was said or understood.

We know for a fact what Trump said/tweeted and the contents of Mattis's resignation letter, and they clearly don't match up (retirement vs. resign in protest). We also know for a fact that Trump initially announced that Mattis would leave on Feb. 28 then subsequently moved that date up by 2 months, the reason of which is the only thing that is subject to speculation, and yours is no more persuasive than ours.

[idhawkman]

We know for a fact what Trump said/tweeted and the contents of Mattis's resignation letter, and they clearly don't match up (retirement vs. resign in protest). We also know for a fact that Trump initially announced that Mattis would leave on Feb. 28 then subsequently moved that date up by 2 months, the reason of which is the only thing that is subject to speculation, and yours is no more persuasive than ours.

You are right, mine is no more plausible than yours except yours is always looking for the worst scenario because you want it to be that way so bad.

Think about it this way, As POTUS I would assume that his letter which he handed to me directly and we discussed in the privacy of the oval office would be kept between us. There's no need to come out and trash him at that point. It was Mattis who leaked the letter to the press to make HIS motives known. At that point, you have no choice as a leader than to remove the rotting fruit from the barrell before it spoils the whole thing. Letting him meet with allies and address NATO is not on the table if that is his motivation. I'm surprised he didn't have him walked.

[Hawktawk]

Crickets over POTUS and FLOTUS visiting the troops in Iraq today? I wonder why....

I was actually preparing to laud an actual good move albeit pretty late in the game. But your comments just demonstrate how far Trump has degraded the office that when he simply acts presidential such as showing a bit of respect for GHWB or actually visiting troops abroad it’s supposed to be a cause for celebration and vindication. Hopefully it’s the start of a more stable presidency cause it’s been anything but so far.