HawkShack.com

Its probably still a little early to label him a bust but the guy just underwhelms me. He cant read the field or deliver an accurate pass. Once again its a guy with all the "measurables" off the charts that is really ineffective in the real world IMO. Thoughts?

IMO, his biggest problem is leadership.

Guy's all smiles when things are rollin' his team's way, but he's quick to sulk with that towel over his head when things are going poorly. Until he changes his attitude - adopt a "never say die" approach if you will, he'll continue to to only take his team so far.

Among the blessings of having RW, is the fact that our QB Never gives up. He treats any and all situations as learning experiences, no matter what the outcome. He's the first one at team HQ and the last one to leave. He'll go to any length to get better. Cam would serve himself well to do the same thing.

Zorn76 wrote:IMO, his biggest problem is leadership.

Guy's all smiles when things are rollin' his team's way, but he's quick to sulk with that towel over his head when things are going poorly. Until he changes his attitude - adopt a "never say die" approach if you will, he'll continue to to only take his team so far.

Among the blessings of having RW, is the fact that our QB Never gives up. He treats any and all situations as learning experiences, no matter what the outcome. He's the first one at team HQ and the last one to leave. He'll go to any length to get better. Cam would serve himself well to do the same thing.

Thats so right Zorn. Its the body language that is probably the biggest problem Cam has. You definitely know it isn't going well when it isn't. I wasn't necessarily comparing him to Wilson....WTH I was I'm just so giddy we got the right guy...

Zorn76 wrote:IMO, his biggest problem is leadership.

I would argue that his biggest problem is the same one that limits Kaepernick...his ability to understand defenses. In fact, I would say that he and Kaepernick are virtually the same player. Kaep has better arm strength and speed, Cam is bigger and stronger, otherwise very similar players with the exact same weakness.

Arguing which of his problems--lack of leadership or inability to read defenses--is like arguing if 6 or a half dozen is bigger. They are both huge, huge problems.

Hell, they probably affect each other. Hard to be a good leader and go into the huddle before a potential game-winning drive and be confident if you know that you don't really know what the defense is going to be doing. Russell's confidence on the field comes, at least somewhat, from his confidence in what he learned in the film room and his ability to translate that to reading defenses in real time.

Likewise, you need to feel the weight of the responsibility of leadership to spend the extra time in film study so that you can read defenses.

But in either case, the behaviors Zorn noted piss me off, and I'm not even a Panthers fan. I thought the game was won after I saw how Cam reacted to his final turnover. He just didn't have the mental ability to bounce back, and he was sh*t for the rest of the game.

Cam probably spent more time deciding which cleats to "rock" for TNF than he did in film study......

[quote="monkey"
[/quote]
I would argue that his biggest problem is the same one that limits Kaepernick...his ability to understand defenses. In fact, I would say that he and Kaepernick are virtually the same player. Kaep has better arm strength and speed, Cam is bigger and stronger, otherwise very similar players with the exact same weakness.[/quote]

Bingo. They could almost be the same guy. Make no mistake, there are days they both can win with sheer athleticism, but that's their only path to success. The finer points of being the field general and leader of the franchise are a mystery to them. Newton is fixing to cost himself a heap of dough and his starting job if he doesn't figure it out. Kap has had much more success in the win column but it could be argued that he has had a much better supporting cast and better coaching.

Last night was a perfect compare and contrast game for him. What makes Drew so much better is: quickness of decision, ability to move in the pocket, controlled velocity and arc of the ball while being very accurate (and in clutch situations). Cam has: great running ability, velocity on passes and a smile. Pretty much it. That pass toward the end where he totally missed Williams because there was a player intersecting in the middle was a perfect example. Just needed less velocity and more arc to get over the defender. He just hurled it in a straight line through the end zone WAY over Williams. Easy to see.

Ok, from the perspective of being HOT, Cam is it. Big, SEXY man with a great smile. I don't know what the problem is?

Seriously, we made them one dimensional pretty fast as did NO last night. His body language when things go well and when things go wrong let the viewer see that he is Cam-centric - or so it seems. He was mediocre last night against a very beatable Saints team at home. His passes were high & off target, he was failing to go through his reads, he was not able to hit his hot reads when under pressure (credit the NO D a bit here), etc.

I have to say, I felt less good about our road win over Carolina after watching the game last night. I do realize that each week is its own and they were playing a divisional foe who knows them well. Just sayin. #unimpressedw/Panthers

I think Newton is pretty damn good. Especially for a guy throwing to basically no one. He has developed very quiet feet in the pocket, can make all kinds of throws. He us a little up and down like most young QBs, but no doubt that he will be one of the top guys after Peyton/Brees/Manning retire (lol if ever).

wait_a_sec wrote:Last night was a perfect compare and contrast game for him. What makes Drew so much better is: quickness of decision, ability to move in the pocket, controlled velocity and arc of the ball while being very accurate (and in clutch situations). Cam has: great running ability, velocity on passes and a smile. Pretty much it. That pass toward the end where he totally missed Williams because there was a player intersecting in the middle was a perfect example. Just needed less velocity and more arc to get over the defender. He just hurled it in a straight line through the end zone WAY over Williams. Easy to see.

Well you are comparing a 10+ yr vet to a guy halfway through his 4th yr. It took Brees yrs to get to where he is now, and if you review his stats he had some pretty choppy years in SD before he broke through with the 27 TD 7 Int yr and then teamed with Payton.

Some of you are ignoring the fact that diagnosing, "reading" and understanding a D is a long process. As Brees' history, Steve Young's etc etc substantiate, it is not an innate skill that a QB walks onto the field with. The statement "Can't read a D" is equivalent to stating an adolescent cannot read a book, or will be restricted to a certain level of reading proficiency his entire academic career. A lot of this boils down to work ethic, drive, repitition and coaching. It is hard to believe some of you are posting this when your QB has purportedly overcome his own limitations by exhibiting these same traits.

Futureite wrote:Well you are comparing a 10+ yr vet to a guy halfway through his 4th yr. It took Brees yrs to get to where he is now, and if you review his stats he had some pretty choppy years in SD before he broke through with the 27 TD 7 Int yr and then teamed with Payton.

Some of you are ignoring the fact that diagnosing, "reading" and understanding a D is a long process. As Brees' history, Steve Young's etc etc substantiate, it is not an innate skill that a QB walks onto the field with. The statement "Can't read a D" is equivalent to stating an adolescent cannot read a book, or will be restricted to a certain level of reading proficiency his entire academic career. A lot of this boils down to work ethic, drive, repitition and coaching. It is hard to believe some of you are posting this when your QB has purportedly overcome his own limitations by exhibiting these same traits.

This year he has career lows in rating and completion percentage. But looking at his career stats, I was struck by the fact that from his rookie season until now, all of the year-to-year differences just look like statistical noise. There is no evidence that he's improving at all, which there should be if your faith in him was justified. I think he came into the NFL at about his peak. If he maintains, he's a league average starter, so we're not saying he's like the Sanchize or anything, but he's not exactly getting better.

We all believe that improvement is possible, just that Cam hasn't shown it. And that begs the question of why that is. Which is what we were trying to answer.

I think Cam isn't doing as well this year (or at least not progressing) is his surrounding cast is less.
Their OL is probably worse than ours without the benefit of a good run game and he lost talent at WR. I haven't seen him play full games much other than the 3 games against us the last 3 years, but is seems he's trying to shoulder the Offense by himself.

I see the comparison to Kaep. Both are physical specimens, but Kaep is improving each year. I think it relates to the earlier comment in that Kaep doesn't have to be the whole Offense.

In fairness to Cam, I agree w/ the post above and add that he is not right physically this year.