HawkShack.com

OMG! LOL

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/09/jerry-jones-sued-sexual-harrassment_n_5794038.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

I despise Jerry Jones more than any person associated with the NFL, but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, at least until we hear a few more details. I'm certainly not too broke up about an exotic dancer getting sexually harassed. Seems more like an occupational hazard.

They had a picture up on the internet a couple of weeks ago. My wife and i both thought it was a fake, but I guess it's not. Showed both him and the 'dancer' looked like they were enjoying themselves. I sure didn't see anything that would be harassment or forced. And it was, what, 4 years ago. I would think that's long past the statute of limitations, but this is a money grab.

js

Jones is rapidly becoming Al Davis.

It seems totally "Jerry" to me. The plastic surgeries, the egomaniac personality leading to firing Johnson and insist on being the GM when he is inept. He will slide its called cash register justice.

jshawaii22 wrote:They had a picture up on the internet a couple of weeks ago. My wife and i both thought it was a fake, but I guess it's not. Showed both him and the 'dancer' looked like they were enjoying themselves. I sure didn't see anything that would be harassment or forced. And it was, what, 4 years ago. I would think that's long past the statute of limitations, but this is a money grab.

js

You have to consider the source of these accusations. If this was an employee of his, such as was the case with Ken Behring a few years ago...ok, a few decades ago..then I would take these charges a little more serious. But an exotic dancer? Come on, man. If anyone that has gone into a strip club and not seen groping, fondling, et al, then you're going to the wrong clubs.

I haven't been to a strip club in well over a decade and even before that I went sparingly (essentially bachelor parties) because it seems like a complete waste of time and money to pay someone to tease you so take this for what it's worth.

The strip clubs I have been to had a no hands policy. This is neither here nor there regarding Jerry Jones, due process and all. I wouldn't be surprised if he was sexually harrassing someone nor would I be surprised if someone made up a hoax to get money and I don't particularly care. And my skeptical nature tends to automatically go to "cash grab".

However, I do take exception to the idea that we should just chalk up sexual harrassment in the form of unwanted sexual touching to being an occupational hazard of being a stripper. Whether you agree with the profession in a moral sense or not, people have the right to draw clear and defined boundaries surrounding sexual contact no matter what their profession is, even prostitutes.

kalibane wrote:I haven't been to a strip club in well over a decade and even before that I went sparingly (essentially bachelor parties) because it seems like a complete waste of time and money to pay someone to tease you so take this for what it's worth.

The strip clubs I have been to had a no hands policy. This is neither here nor there regarding Jerry Jones, due process and all. I wouldn't be surprised if he was sexually harrassing someone nor would I be surprised if someone made up a hoax to get money and I don't particularly care. And my skeptical nature tends to automatically go to "cash grab".

However, I do take exception to the idea that we should just chalk up sexual harrassment in the form of unwanted sexual touching to being an occupational hazard of being a stripper. Whether you agree with the profession in a moral sense or not, people have the right to draw clear and defined boundaries surrounding sexual contact no matter what their profession is, even prostitutes.

All clubs have their policies about contact with customers. Some are more stringent than others. But it's been my experience that the individual dancer as their own personal limits that usually exceeds those of the club, and the dancers that perform to the higher club threshold don't make as much in tips as those that perform closer to their own, self imposed limits. In either case, the dancer has the right to refuse service to anyone if a customer goes over either one of those limits, and has a big, mean bouncer to help her enforce each of those rules. If she didn't like his behavior, then she had an obligation to advise management and kick his ass out.

Anyone that willingly goes to work in an establishment like that knows in advance that there is a much higher probability of encountering a situation where some unwanted touching or groping might occur, thus it is, indeed, an expected occupational hazard. It's no different than applying for a job as a bouncer. You know by definition that you could be involved in a situation that might involve a physical encounter with a customer. If that type of potential concerns you, then don't apply for the job.

I'm not excusing all forms of sexual harassment, even to an exotic dancer. But if all that happened was some fondling and groping that went over the limit, limits that aren't always very clear and can vary considerably even within a single club, then I'm not considering it harassment.

I wouldn't either. It's actually an assualt. A higher probability of something bad happening doesn't mitigate culpability when something does happen.

When a cop applies and accept that job it automatically comes with a higher probability of getting hurt or killed in the line of duty. Does society look the other way when one gets shot? In fact people tend to go the other way and come down on the perp even harder.

Now lets be real (and again let me reiterate that this smells like a cash grab to me and I'm just speaking hypothetically). If Jerry Jones was in a strip club (or someone else of that stature) and he crossed the line do you honestly believe that if the Stripper notified the bouncer, the manager or the owner of the club that he was crossing the line that they would throw Jerry Jones out? I don't think that for a second. You don't become successful in the hospitatlity business whether it be a bar, restaurant or strip club by throwing that much potential business out the door. They might ask him to calm dwon and I mean ask, not tell... but they are not throwing him out.

Either way like I said I took exception to your statement that this is an occupational hazard that strippers should more or less swallow.

RiverDog wrote:
All clubs have their policies about contact with customers. Some are more stringent than others. But it's been my experience that the individual dancer as their own personal limits that usually exceeds those of the club, and the dancers that perform to the higher club threshold don't make as much in tips as those that perform closer to their own, self imposed limits. In either case, the dancer has the right to refuse service to anyone if a customer goes over either one of those limits, and has a big, mean bouncer to help her enforce each of those rules. If she didn't like his behavior, then she had an obligation to advise management and kick his ass out.

Anyone that willingly goes to work in an establishment like that knows in advance that there is a much higher probability of encountering a situation where some unwanted touching or groping might occur, thus it is, indeed, an expected occupational hazard. It's no different than applying for a job as a bouncer. You know by definition that you could be involved in a situation that might involve a physical encounter with a customer. If that type of potential concerns you, then don't apply for the job.

I'm not excusing all forms of sexual harassment, even to an exotic dancer. But if all that happened was some fondling and groping that went over the limit, limits that aren't always very clear and can vary considerably even within a single club, then I'm not considering it harassment.

I've worked at strip clubs in 5 states and none of them allowed hands on the dancer (at least in the main bar, VIP rooms are another matter). Any contact (in states that allow any contact at all) is strictly up to the dancer. Contact initiated by the customer is watched closely by us big mean bouncers and don't require the girl asking for the customer to be bounced, all though if she does ask it's a done deal.

Of course this is all so last century ...

c_hawkbob wrote:I've worked at strip clubs in 5 states and none of them allowed hands on the dancer (at least in the main bar, VIP rooms are another matter). Any contact (in states that allow any contact at all) is strictly up to the dancer. Contact initiated by the customer is watched closely by us big mean bouncers and don't require the girl asking for the customer to be bounced, all though if she does ask it's a done deal.

Of course this is all so last century ...

Yup. And I'll also add that there are usually government ordinances, usually city or county, that regulate these businesses and dictate to the clubs/dancers certain things such as how close dancers can get to customers and what kind of apparel the dancer is allowed to wear. Those are all written, well understood rules.

But there are other, unwritten rules that do exist, such as how closely the big, mean bouncer watches for violations, and these rules can vary greatly. For example, if you give a $50 tip to that mean bouncer, it can alter how closely he might be watching. That's just one of the unwritten rules that carries with it a lot of variance from club to club.

kalibane wrote:I wouldn't either. It's actually an assualt. A higher probability of something bad happening doesn't mitigate culpability when something does happen.

When a cop applies and accept that job it automatically comes with a higher probability of getting hurt or killed in the line of duty. Does society look the other way when one gets shot? In fact people tend to go the other way and come down on the perp even harder.

Now lets be real (and again let me reiterate that this smells like a cash grab to me and I'm just speaking hypothetically). If Jerry Jones was in a strip club (or someone else of that stature) and he crossed the line do you honestly believe that if the Stripper notified the bouncer, the manager or the owner of the club that he was crossing the line that they would throw Jerry Jones out? I don't think that for a second. You don't become successful in the hospitatlity business whether it be a bar, restaurant or strip club by throwing that much potential business out the door. They might ask him to calm dwon and I mean ask, not tell... but they are not throwing him out.

Either way like I said I took exception to your statement that this is an occupational hazard that strippers should more or less swallow.

Cops are going to have to put up with more abuse than the average citizen. Anyone in the law enforcement business will tell you that all good cops have a thick skin, and will tolerate a lot more verbal abuse to themselves than they would to the citizens they are obligated to protect. That abuse is an expected, inherent occupational hazard to the profession.

Same goes for the exotic dancer. She must tolerate more "abuse" than a waitress in a restaurant. It's an inherent risk that comes with the territory.

obiken wrote:Jones is rapidly becoming Al Davis.

Dang I was thinking the EXACT same thing when I read your post. Great minds think alike, even if one of 'em is mine.

Actually to be fair, they would have groped Al Davis, not the other way around!!