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Typically this time of the year I am excited about what the new season brings us. We are less then 2 months away from preseason, and the camp battle stories... making the 53. However, with everything going on in the real world today and we just got involved in an active war. I just can't wrap my brain around getting excited for Seahawk football or even talk about useless points that I enjoy to debate over. I am just wondering if I am alone on this?

4XPIPS wrote:Typically this time of the year I am excited about what the new season brings us. We are less then 2 months away from preseason, and the camp battle stories... making the 53. However, with everything going on in the real world today and we just got involved in an active war. I just can't wrap my brain around getting excited for Seahawk football or even talk about useless points that I enjoy to debate over. I am just wondering if I am alone on this?

No, you're not alone. I don't start getting excited until Labor Day when the seasons begin to change. Training camp and preseason games don't mean much to me anymore.

It's the slow time of the season. Heck, we just went a week without a single post in this forum.

I'm always kind of zoned out at this time of year with nothing going on.
But as TC approaches and we start getting information things pick up.
For me sports has always been an out from the daily pressures and it's probably the worst time of the year because the only thing going on is Baseball and it's approaching the All Star game which is boring as hell for someone my age. As a kid it was great - and the All Star type games are geared for the kids, but for me it's something I avoid.

NorthHawk wrote:I'm always kind of zoned out at this time of year with nothing going on.
But as TC approaches and we start getting information things pick up.
For me sports has always been an out from the daily pressures and it's probably the worst time of the year because the only thing going on is Baseball and it's approaching the All Star game which is boring as hell for someone my age. As a kid it was great - and the All Star type games are geared for the kids, but for me it's something I avoid.

Yeah, I used to be a huge baseball fan, but over the past 20 years and coinciding with the Mariners slide into obscurity, my interest has waned significantly. The All Star game used to be a huge, can't miss event for a lot of people.

I tend to keep busy all the time reading on all types of stuff. I can't really zone out or stay calm mentally, my mind is always needing more information and more activity or I get antsy and start looking for more. I've got to be mentally engaged with something all the time. Not even sure what I would do with downtime. I'm not a person that knows how to relax, take vacations, or sit still with time off.

This world politics stuff is interesting to watch. Though at this point, it's starting to all seem fake. Just a big bunch of manufactured problems that are more tempest in a teapot than much real. The world is massively entwined. We have most food production at a level of abundance unseen in history. We can build out infrastructure where ever we want it. It seems there are a handful of scummy leaders left wanting to cause some problems, but mostly the modern world has human life locked in to the point where we're dealing with modern problems like excessive obesity, social media addiction, and figuring out what to do with our time between work hours.

Everything going on seems far away. The only way you seriously engage with it is if you watch too much TV with the 24 hour news cycle. If you step away from the electronic media, you don't feel or see any of what they claim is happening to us all. All this end of the world talk and trouble seems like far away stories on TV once you turn off the TV or computer, go outside, the world seems fine.

I stopped worrying about it because I can no longer tell what is real and what is a 24 hour news station having to manufacture news to maintain ratings to make money. It sure seems like they greatly exaggerate things to wind us all up. I can't help but think it is very much done on purpose. I don't know that I feel like having that done to me anymore.

4XPIPS wrote:Typically this time of the year I am excited about what the new season brings us. We are less then 2 months away from preseason, and the camp battle stories... making the 53. However, with everything going on in the real world today and we just got involved in an active war. I just can't wrap my brain around getting excited for Seahawk football or even talk about useless points that I enjoy to debate over. I am just wondering if I am alone on this?

The only thing I will offer is that we aren't in an "active war". It was a very strategic and limited strike in Iran, and there are no boots on the ground, nor has there been a Congressional declaration of war.

FYI, I am a retired Navy Command Master Chief and still work for the Navy as a civilian contractor. I maintain an active Top Secret/SCI security clearance and have been briefed on the reality of what is going on. Just wanted to state that so it doesn't seem like I am talking out of my kazoo, lol.

I don't mean you, but far too many throw around the term "war" these days. This wasn't any different than strikes ordered by Biden, Trump in his previous term, Obama, Clinton, etc. It's heavy and for sure something to worry about, but for my money, things like football are the kind of distraction we need to not just sit around worrying about the world all day.

I don't want to make this political as people get hot and bothered about all of this, but in general things are fairly stable now...especially with the world's largest sponsor of international terror (a country who has killed literally thousands of Americans either directly or through their puppets Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis) having their nuclear ambitions crushed for the foreseeable future.

I've found myself being increasingly disinterested in sports as a whole and I'm not entirely sure why. Yes, definitely, part of it is that my attention has been captured by the political drama of world events that seem to have us on the brink of a world war. I was doing the math the other day and it has been around 80 years since the last world war while there was only 27 years between the end of WWI and the end of WWII. I remember as a kid in the 1950's and 60's that everyone was expecting WWIII to break out in the form of a nuclear holocaust at any time back then. But it didn't. I think the fact that the countries possessing nuclear bomb technology realized it might destroy humanity actually kept a WWIII from happening - sort of a stable tension. But when nuclear armament technology gets in the hands of fanatical idealogues like Khomeini, that stable tension becomes more dynamic. But I digress.

I think another factor for me in my waning interest in sports these days is that the leagues and the teams have felt the need to cooperate with the social and cultural reengineering efforts of political correctness. I cringe every time I hear or read that the Mariners or the Seahawks or the Trailblazers announce they are celebrating gay pride day. They never seem to feel a need to celebrate straight pride day. I wish they would just focus playing baseball, football, or basketball and stay out of politics. Their marketing departments seem to have their ears to the ground listening for the latest cultural vibration so they can appeal to some special interest group and make themselves appear inclusive. There was a time when sports offered more of a respite from all this stuff.

And as far as college sports is concerned, I'm very disillusioned by the whole transfer portal/NIL thing. It's ruining kids' character ("What's in it for me, myself and I?") and it will result in the collapse of many programs who just can't afford to play the NIL game. It's really hard to develop allegiance to a team when there is such turnover from one year to the next that you don't even recognize the team.

trents wrote:I've found myself being increasingly disinterested in sports as a whole and I'm not entirely sure why. Yes, definitely, part of it is that my attention has been captured by the political drama of world events that seem to have us on the brink of a world war. I was doing the math the other day and it has been around 80 years since the last world war while there was only 27 years between the end of WWI and the end of WWII. I remember as a kid in the 1950's and 60's that everyone was expecting WWIII to break out in the form of a nuclear holocaust at any time back then. But it didn't. I think the fact that the countries possessing nuclear bomb technology realized it might destroy humanity actually kept a WWIII from happening - sort of a stable tension. But when nuclear armament technology gets in the hands of fanatical idealogues like Khomeini, that stable tension becomes more dynamic. But I digress.

I think another factor for me in my waning interest in sports these days is that the leagues and the teams have felt the need to cooperate with the social and cultural reengineering efforts of political correctness. I cringe every time I hear or read that the Mariners or the Seahawks or the Trailblazers announce they are celebrating gay pride day. They never seem to feel a need to celebrate straight pride day. I wish they would just focus playing baseball, football, or basketball and stay out of politics. Their marketing departments seem to have their ears to the ground listening for the latest cultural vibration so they can appeal to some special interest group and make themselves appear inclusive. There was a time when sports offered more of a respite from all this stuff.

And as far as college sports is concerned, I'm very disillusioned by the whole transfer portal/NIL thing. It's ruining kids' character ("What's in it for me, myself and I?") and it will result in the collapse of many programs who just can't afford to play the NIL game. It's really hard to develop allegiance to a team when there is such turnover from one year to the next that you don't even recognize the team.

10/4 on the college sports scene. One only has to look as far as Shedder Saunders for a character that was ruined by it. Plus, I'll throw in the break-up of the Pac-12 as another incident that has hastened my dislike for CFB. Money, in general, has ruined the game.

For me, sports has pretty much come down to the NFL and sometimes MLB.

Shedeur Sanders is a rich kid who acted like it during the draft process. The description was that most teams thought that he approached it not as a job interview but as he was being recruited. It turned most teams off and many took him off their board.

I'm glad the players in College are getting paid and expect it to continue, but there will be changes and maybe even a Union or equivalent that manages how much each can get along with rules about poaching players from other teams.
It's going to take a while as the sport adjusts to the new reality, but the main thing is the performers and getting paid now instead of the University bureaucrats and coaches.

College football is now officially the NFL's farm league. The pretense that college football was pure football while college coaches were getting paid millions was a joke. Now the players can get get paid for making the million dollar coaches and universities look good.

NorthHawk wrote:Shedeur Sanders is a rich kid who acted like it during the draft process. The description was that most teams thought that he approached it not as a job interview but as he was being recruited. It turned most teams off and many took him off their board.

I'm glad the players in College are getting paid and expect it to continue, but there will be changes and maybe even a Union or equivalent that manages how much each can get along with rules about poaching players from other teams.
It's going to take a while as the sport adjusts to the new reality, but the main thing is the performers and getting paid now instead of the University bureaucrats and coaches.

Obviously, Saunders attitude during his visits at the scouting combine had a lot to do with his historic drop in the draft, but he had to have been vastly overrated as a quarterback for teams to have taken him completely off their boards. If he was truly top 10 material, someone would have taken a shot at him in the 2nd or 3rd round. I also think that his father's past and reputation for controversy had a lot to do with it, too, and that Shedeur reinforced that perception within the long memories of GM's during the interviews. I can just hear them talking between themselves: "The apple didn't fall very far from the tree."

Sports, in general, are seeing a decline in popularity. Gen Z is much less interested in sports than previous generations. There's just too much competition for entertainment and people's free time. It would be an interesting discussion for the offseason.

Thanks for sharing. I guess it's really me too. I do get overly excited over the "not so worth getting excited" for things before a Seahawks season starts, but with everything going on in Politics in the US it does weigh on my mind at times and I just didn't find myself engaging.

Interesting topic. I am in the same boat, but I've wondered if it's just a matter of getting older and not caring as much about anything that is entertainment. I don't live near Seattle so I don't have a community of people to watch with, and I think in yesteryear that was a big part of sports. Locals, often in families, gathering to root on the home team as a part of civic pride. But now that people move around so much and we don't live near family, and with the similar entertainment fragmentation others noted, there just isn't much that binds us together. Being a sports fan in front of a screen by myself just isn't as fun as in a house or bar with others cheering for the Hawks.

As to the Gen Z and Alpha sports fandom declines: We still want connection that often sports used to provide, and there is good research suggesting that part of our political polarization is related to people turning to political parties and movements for identity rather than problem-solving. In other words, it used to be that people chose parties based on which one would solve the problems they most valued. Now, people are much more likely to see political movements as part of who they are. That takes time and energy, so less is left over for sports. That's not the whole issue, and for lots of people on this board that might not explain any of the issue. But for young people who have grown up identifying with politics rather than sports teams, I think it's part of it.

At this point, I no longer follow basketball at all (f*** the NBA forever, and especially Howard Shultz), no college sports because of NIL (except the small DIII college where I teach where I go to support my students), and no MLB (too much time). I'm down to the Hawks and Sounders (and Chelsea, but that's just because a former student and I have them in common, so Chelsea keeps us in contact).

Oly wrote:Interesting topic. I am in the same boat, but I've wondered if it's just a matter of getting older and not caring as much about anything that is entertainment. I don't live near Seattle so I don't have a community of people to watch with, and I think in yesteryear that was a big part of sports. Locals, often in families, gathering to root on the home team as a part of civic pride. But now that people move around so much and we don't live near family, and with the similar entertainment fragmentation others noted, there just isn't much that binds us together. Being a sports fan in front of a screen by myself just isn't as fun as in a house or bar with others cheering for the Hawks.

As to the Gen Z and Alpha sports fandom declines: We still want connection that often sports used to provide, and there is good research suggesting that part of our political polarization is related to people turning to political parties and movements for identity rather than problem-solving. In other words, it used to be that people chose parties based on which one would solve the problems they most valued. Now, people are much more likely to see political movements as part of who they are. That takes time and energy, so less is left over for sports. That's not the whole issue, and for lots of people on this board that might not explain any of the issue. But for young people who have grown up identifying with politics rather than sports teams, I think it's part of it.

At this point, I no longer follow basketball at all (f*** the NBA forever, and especially Howard Shultz), no college sports because of NIL (except the small DIII college where I teach where I go to support my students), and no MLB (too much time). I'm down to the Hawks and Sounders (and Chelsea, but that's just because a former student and I have them in common, so Chelsea keeps us in contact).

Very well written, wish I could grammatically express my thoughts as well as you. I agree, however I feel like the NFL by comparison to other major sports is still on an Island of it's own, given that every NFL team has a fair shot to make the playoffs or be a dynasty, and change their fortunes on a dime.

I used to love the NBA for many decades, and I watched it religiously as much as I watched my Hawks. However, once they let superstar players corrupt and control teams*cough cough Lebron*, and create super squads teams, constant flopping, and then changed rules to increase scoring because no one wants to learn fundamental defense, and players having rest days during games. I am like you, I am out I can't even stand to watch a NBA game anymore. Although, I can at least say that I lived and watched the greatest player of all time without a doubt in Michael Jordan. No youthful undeserving brat will ever be exposed to must see NBA in the late 90s, and will never understand the greatness he carried when he graced the court. I should be so lucky to have watched it, and enjoyed his career.

However, thanks for the input.

Oly wrote:Interesting topic. I am in the same boat, but I've wondered if it's just a matter of getting older and not caring as much about anything that is entertainment. I don't live near Seattle so I don't have a community of people to watch with, and I think in yesteryear that was a big part of sports. Locals, often in families, gathering to root on the home team as a part of civic pride. But now that people move around so much and we don't live near family, and with the similar entertainment fragmentation others noted, there just isn't much that binds us together. Being a sports fan in front of a screen by myself just isn't as fun as in a house or bar with others cheering for the Hawks.

As to the Gen Z and Alpha sports fandom declines: We still want connection that often sports used to provide, and there is good research suggesting that part of our political polarization is related to people turning to political parties and movements for identity rather than problem-solving. In other words, it used to be that people chose parties based on which one would solve the problems they most valued. Now, people are much more likely to see political movements as part of who they are. That takes time and energy, so less is left over for sports. That's not the whole issue, and for lots of people on this board that might not explain any of the issue. But for young people who have grown up identifying with politics rather than sports teams, I think it's part of it.

At this point, I no longer follow basketball at all (f*** the NBA forever, and especially Howard Shultz), no college sports because of NIL (except the small DIII college where I teach where I go to support my students), and no MLB (too much time). I'm down to the Hawks and Sounders (and Chelsea, but that's just because a former student and I have them in common, so Chelsea keeps us in contact).

From what I've seen of the younger generations, they are forming social networks over video games, movie franchises, anime, and the like. They are doing so online. They don't even care that much about politics. They don't like to talk that much unless texting. They are digitally addicted or you could argue more evolved to the digital medium and less evolved to the physical social medium. They believe more of what they read or see on Tik Tok or Instagram. They don't watch the daily news much. They don't read much at all unless they are doing something online.

This generation thrives online. If sports aren't delivered to them online in a way they can participate in some way, they won't engage. It's why I imagine fantasy football is being pushed so hard as I've seen more young people engage with fantasy football than picking and rooting for a sports team. They want to see their fantasy football team do well and could care less what the local team does. Seahawks could lose every game and as long as their fantasy football team did well, they are happy. They do this all on their phone.

From what I understand META is pushing for a glasses or eyeware replacement for the phone. Elon Musk is working for a direct neural connection to the digital world.

I don't think politics is drving their thinking much myself other than a small percentage the media amplifies depending on the party affiliation. This generation is far more disconnected from the real world and far more connected to the digital/online world. If you don't engage them in that medium, they'll ignore what's going on in the physical world including sports teams.

That's what I see in the working world with the younger generation. As a manager, one of the hardest things we deal with is keeping workers engaged doing work rather than on their phones or any other device they can engage with digitally. I'm not looking forward to connected eye ware as that is harder to see and manage than phones.

Aseahawkfan wrote:From what I've seen of the younger generations, they are forming social networks over video games, movie franchises, anime, and the like. They are doing so online. They don't even care that much about politics. They don't like to talk that much unless texting. They are digitally addicted or you could argue more evolved to the digital medium and less evolved to the physical social medium. They believe more of what they read or see on Tik Tok or Instagram. They don't watch the daily news much. They don't read much at all unless they are doing something online.

This generation thrives online. If sports aren't delivered to them online in a way they can participate in some way, they won't engage. It's why I imagine fantasy football is being pushed so hard as I've seen more young people engage with fantasy football than picking and rooting for a sports team. They want to see their fantasy football team do well and could care less what the local team does. Seahawks could lose every game and as long as their fantasy football team did well, they are happy. They do this all on their phone.

From what I understand META is pushing for a glasses or eyeware replacement for the phone. Elon Musk is working for a direct neural connection to the digital world.

I don't think politics is drving their thinking much myself other than a small percentage the media amplifies depending on the party affiliation. This generation is far more disconnected from the real world and far more connected to the digital/online world. If you don't engage them in that medium, they'll ignore what's going on in the physical world including sports teams.

That's what I see in the working world with the younger generation. As a manager, one of the hardest things we deal with is keeping workers engaged doing work rather than on their phones or any other device they can engage with digitally. I'm not looking forward to connected eye ware as that is harder to see and manage than phones.

I'd agree with all of that but still stick by my post. Research has shown that younger people are more likely to view politics as an identity issue than in previous years, but that's not the same as saying identity and connection are built primarily through those channels. I have a feeling that kids just diverge more in where they get their sense of identity. Some do throught politics, some through video games (but research also shows that as a general rule kids are feeling less connection than in the past). Everything you said can co-exist with the observation that when young people are engaged in politics, it's an identity issue more often than a problem-solving issue.

Oly wrote:I'd agree with all of that but still stick by my post. Research has shown that younger people are more likely to view politics as an identity issue than in previous years, but that's not the same as saying identity and connection are built primarily through those channels. I have a feeling that kids just diverge more in where they get their sense of identity. Some do throught politics, some through video games (but research also shows that as a general rule kids are feeling less connection than in the past). Everything you said can co-exist with the observation that when young people are engaged in politics, it's an identity issue more often than a problem-solving issue.

Your post I think accurate as well, but nuanced. What I find strange is very few young people identify with a party. Older people tend to say things like, "I'm a Republican or a I'm a Democrat" whereas younger people tend to identify with issues.
I was chatting with this young Ethiopian-American girl coworker and her entire family told her to vote for Trump. Her entire family voted for Trump. The reason was solely based on the Democratic stance on transgender issues. But they don't view themselves as Republican, they're very focused on this narrow issue as it really pisses them off and frightens them badly. It's the most damaging issue the Democrats support at the moment that has caused many naturalized immigrants with conservative social values to turn to Trump even with his harsh immigration stance.

The younger generation is very issue oriented. Very much wanting something other than what is being offered by these two parties. And more likely to vote for a president than a party. If they like the candidate, they'll vote for that candidate regardless of the party as long as the right issues are being pushed.

They will make things interesting going forward as they are more influenced by social media more than mainstream news. They don't trust either political party.

Aseahawkfan wrote:Your post I think accurate as well, but nuanced. What I find strange is very few young people identify with a party. Older people tend to say things like, "I'm a Republican or a I'm a Democrat" whereas younger people tend to identify with issues.
I was chatting with this young Ethiopian-American girl coworker and her entire family told her to vote for Trump. Her entire family voted for Trump. The reason was solely based on the Democratic stance on transgender issues. But they don't view themselves as Republican, they're very focused on this narrow issue as it really pisses them off and frightens them badly. It's the most damaging issue the Democrats support at the moment that has caused many naturalized immigrants with conservative social values to turn to Trump even with his harsh immigration stance.

The younger generation is very issue oriented. Very much wanting something other than what is being offered by these two parties. And more likely to vote for a president than a party. If they like the candidate, they'll vote for that candidate regardless of the party as long as the right issues are being pushed.

They will make things interesting going forward as they are more influenced by social media more than mainstream news. They don't trust either political party.

I have two daughters, so we talked about this at dinner last night. One (a rising junior) is very politically engaged. The other (a rising freshman) has opinions but is much more average in terms of her engagement. Some highlights:

—My older is definitely a pragmatic, old-school Democrat. She has little patience for the extremist wing that wouldn't vote for Harris because she wasn't perfect on the Israel/Gaza conflict. She's all about winning elections, and for that reason she's also super critical of how much the Dems have made trans issues a focus, even though she agrees with them. That story you told is something that makes her extra pissed at the Dems. That said, she can't think of a single other classmate who identifies with a party. Even the conservatives she knows, she said that all would say they are "conservative" or "MAGA"; none would primarily identify as Republican.

—I presented my identity hypothesis contrasted with an "issue" hypothesis and didn't tell them which I believed. They both said that they strongly thought the identity hypothesis was closer to the truth. When pressed on why, they both agreed that the strength of their peers' convictions was almost unrelated to how informed they were. The MAGA people are just as strongly MAGA regardless of whether they knew that Trump met with Kim Jung Un in his first term or not. She recalled a conversation with one group of MAGA a couple of years ago who were all uniformly and strongly "America should be strong and not meet with dictators." When my daughter told them about the meeting, they just shrugged. Hearing that Trump did the opposite thing on an issue they cared a lot about didn't phase them. If they'd been issue voters, they would have wanted to know more. But they really didn't care. They supported Trump because they were MAGA, and that's that. (She made it a point to say that it's not just a MAGA thing, it's just that in our rural Indiana town, there isn't a big sample of radical leftists to tell stories from. But she said they'd be the same.)

—When I presented the "for some young people, politics replace sports identity," neither felt they could confirm/deny. Neither have ever been big organized sports fans (the older always wants the Hawks to win, but hardly knows the rules of the game), and neither are their friends, so they weren't sure how strong the team loyalty/identity stuff is here. They also couldn't speak to any changes over time. They said that athletes do identify very strongly with their sport and their high school, but they just didn't know about pro sports. When I asked why they aren't sports fans (even if they're both athletes, swimming and running mainly), they just said they've never been super interested, even though I definitely watch sports in the house.

—They both shared your curiosity/concern about information sources. My older, in particular, is really worried. She's reading Trust Me I'm Lying right now, which is all about disinformation. She sees it in her daily life on the right more just because most of her classmates are on the right and she's aghast at the things they use as evidence. But we also go to Olympia to visit family each year, and she said she's seen evidence that the problem is just as big on the left. She just doesn't encounter it as often.

Anyway, not sure how much this contributes. But I've been enjoying thinking about this over the past week or so.

Oly wrote:I have two daughters, so we talked about this at dinner last night. One (a rising junior) is very politically engaged. The other (a rising freshman) has opinions but is much more average in terms of her engagement. Some highlights:

—My older is definitely a pragmatic, old-school Democrat. She has little patience for the extremist wing that wouldn't vote for Harris because she wasn't perfect on the Israel/Gaza conflict. She's all about winning elections, and for that reason she's also super critical of how much the Dems have made trans issues a focus, even though she agrees with them. That story you told is something that makes her extra pissed at the Dems. That said, she can't think of a single other classmate who identifies with a party. Even the conservatives she knows, she said that all would say they are "conservative" or "MAGA"; none would primarily identify as Republican.

—I presented my identity hypothesis contrasted with an "issue" hypothesis and didn't tell them which I believed. They both said that they strongly thought the identity hypothesis was closer to the truth. When pressed on why, they both agreed that the strength of their peers' convictions was almost unrelated to how informed they were. The MAGA people are just as strongly MAGA regardless of whether they knew that Trump met with Kim Jung Un in his first term or not. She recalled a conversation with one group of MAGA a couple of years ago who were all uniformly and strongly "America should be strong and not meet with dictators." When my daughter told them about the meeting, they just shrugged. Hearing that Trump did the opposite thing on an issue they cared a lot about didn't phase them. If they'd been issue voters, they would have wanted to know more. But they really didn't care. They supported Trump because they were MAGA, and that's that. (She made it a point to say that it's not just a MAGA thing, it's just that in our rural Indiana town, there isn't a big sample of radical leftists to tell stories from. But she said they'd be the same.)

—When I presented the "for some young people, politics replace sports identity," neither felt they could confirm/deny. Neither have ever been big organized sports fans (the older always wants the Hawks to win, but hardly knows the rules of the game), and neither are their friends, so they weren't sure how strong the team loyalty/identity stuff is here. They also couldn't speak to any changes over time. They said that athletes do identify very strongly with their sport and their high school, but they just didn't know about pro sports. When I asked why they aren't sports fans (even if they're both athletes, swimming and running mainly), they just said they've never been super interested, even though I definitely watch sports in the house.

—They both shared your curiosity/concern about information sources. My older, in particular, is really worried. She's reading Trust Me I'm Lying right now, which is all about disinformation. She sees it in her daily life on the right more just because most of her classmates are on the right and she's aghast at the things they use as evidence. But we also go to Olympia to visit family each year, and she said she's seen evidence that the problem is just as big on the left. She just doesn't encounter it as often.

Anyway, not sure how much this contributes. But I've been enjoying thinking about this over the past week or so.

Those are some interesting observations. I've seen some of that as well, especially with Trump who has a cult of personality going. They follow Trump and Trump alone. Trump over Party. Trump over issues. Trump is always right and those calling him out are lying haters. They never admit when he is doing utterly dumb things just as the other side never admits when he makes a smart policy change. Trump is a pretty unique figure in recent politics where the man himself stands above everything else for his supporters and his enemies and everyone has thrown consideration for his policies out of the window to love or hate the man. Though I've seen the rise of this on a smaller scale since politically driven media channels rose to power as they create echo chambers for both groups to enter to hear what they want to hear about their chosen candidates. Trump took this phenomenon to the next level with both parties following him into crazyland.

I have seen some of what you observed in groups as well. The MAGA crowd definitely follows Trump. The Democrats don't have a figure like Trump to inspire that level of irrational loyalty and support.

I don't personally believe anyone should have that type of loyalty and support in America as I think Americans should be a highly rational people making decisions based on well reasoned positions. But I know Americans don't operate like that, no large groups do. Voting is mostly an illusion with very powerful people and groups driving government with agendas. I think both parties have a basic understanding that you can't let the economy and living situation become so bad that you create the environment for massive, violent revolution. That drives a lot of American and world politics. You really have to delve to see the real agendas being pursued while basic, sensible government is mostly automated and understood so as to not upset the herd.

I do want to see how the parties adapt to using social media to appeal to this younger generation when they come to power and they are not much interested in sitting in front of a TV and get so much of their information from social media. The words, "I heard it on Tiktok" or "I heard it on Instagram" I hear all the time. Whereas my 50 something demographic is still watching CNN and Fox and the TV news for their information. The younger generation never mentions these organizations because they don't watch them or care about them. I'm not sure that's better, but at least with social media there is a massive spread of social media creators providing information versus single, large controled entities pushing the same messaging based on political affiliation.

I guess we'll see when the smartphone generation comes to power.

Good post. I don't really have much to add, but wanted to recognize the good analysis there.