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Here's an article about the OL this year.
I suspect he's inaccurate about some of his assumptions because it's difficult to project this early.
Again Center is a weak spot - at least from an experience perspective.

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2024/ ... nsive-line

I thought Lucas' health problem was his knee, but the article says he's recovering from shoulder surgery.

I'm not confident in either of our two offensive tackles. Lucas may have a chronic knee problem and Cross hasn't lived up to his top 10 draft pick billing.

It's interesting that the article said nothing about Olu at center. Here's what it said about the position:

Center is where things remain dire. The team may strike gold in the three unlikely options they hold, but external additions may be on the horizon if no one takes hold of the starting job convincingly.

As we've discussed, the center position has been neglected ever since we traded away Max Unger with no plan to replace him other than Pete yelling "Next man up!" It's one of the things that turned my attitude towards Pete south. It's also going to be worth keeping an eye on how we deal with positions on the OL, if Schneider prioritizes them, which would be an indication that Pete was the one behind the neglect, or if we continue to use a band aid approach.

JS was recently talking about Guards and (to paraphrase) said he thought they were usually drafted too high and were paid too much.
If that thought continues to the Center position then we know that it was his thinking and not necessarily Pete's. It would also fall in line with trading Unger because as a Pro Bowl player he would command a higher salary.
Add to that continually bypassing top Centers in the draft and there might be a pattern that fits.
The next couple of years will either confirm or put to rest that line of thought.

NorthHawk wrote:JS was recently talking about Guards and (to paraphrase) said he thought they were usually drafted too high and were paid too much.
If that thought continues to the Center position then we know that it was his thinking and not necessarily Pete's. It would also fall in line with trading Unger because as a Pro Bowl player he would command a higher salary.
Add to that continually bypassing top Centers in the draft and there might be a pattern that fits.
The next couple of years will either confirm or put to rest that line of thought.

I wonder how much that thinking has changed with the recent advocation of the "Tush Push" or "Brotherly Shove" that they've talked about outlawing.

Good point.

Most team sports require strength up the middle to be successful. Football is no different and maybe even more important with the QB, IOL, ILBs, and Safeties. The object on Defense is to keep the traffic to the perimeter and the object on Offense is to force the play up the middle. For most team sports that is.

NorthHawk wrote:Good point.

Most team sports require strength up the middle to be successful. Football is no different and maybe even more important with the QB, IOL, ILBs, and Safeties. The object on Defense is to keep the traffic to the perimeter and the object on Offense is to force the play up the middle. For most team sports that is.

Someone mentioned once that as a rule of thumb, the further the position is away from the ball, the less important it is, the reference being wide receivers, safeties, and running backs. Obviously, there's so many exceptions that it's a nonsensical analogy.

I can see where guards are not as valuable as a tackle, but I think center falls in between them on the scale. For example, if a tackle is rated as a 10 and a guard is an 8, a center would be a 9.

Your best lineman needs to be a tackle. Your smartest lineman needs to be your center. Your meanest, nastiest bad ass needs to be a guard. All of these are better if they have some of each other's traits.

c_hawkbob wrote:Your best lineman needs to be a tackle. Your smartest lineman needs to be your center. Your meanest, nastiest bad ass needs to be a guard. All of these are better if they have some of each other's traits.

Agreed.

When you said meanest, nastiest guard, I immediately thought of Conrad Dobler of the St. Louis Cardinals.

Perfect example. Hutch was the guy I had in mind but Dobler sure works!

There's also a philosophy that good teams are built from the inside out which went hand in hand with the strength down the middle viewpoint.

Offensive linemen often take 2-4 years to develop, so it is early to judge Bradford and Olu, I would like to see them try Bradford at LG, as a bigger guard he fits a profile. My biggest worry is over Abe Lucas' injuries, and hope that he can recover to what he was, or better. Haynes was a good pick and he will help soon, I believe, but I would prefer that they leave him at RG.

A player to watch this season, to draft in '25 is Parker Brailsford. A beast, athletic, and is primarily a center but could be good at guard. He played with the Huskies (UW) last season and will play for Alabama this year. Needs to be taken early as he is making noise. Of course it too early to say, but take a look at him on Youtube.

The line will be better but it is still a work in progress.

I agree about the time it takes for the OL to develop, but I'm concerned that JS doesn't really care. He hasn't been inclined to give 2nd contracts to Guards/Centers and even traded Unger in his prime for a player who didn't fit what we were doing on Offense. I hope I'm wrong, but I get the impression that he will just not re-sign any G or C for a 2nd contract and take the comp pick instead and draft another one. That means that the OL will never really be good, but serviceable at best.
And for gods sake keep the players at the positions they played in at college. There's too much to learn just getting into the NFL for the first couple of years to add another position into the mix regardless of if it's just on the opposite side of the line.

NorthHawk wrote:I agree about the time it takes for the OL to develop, but I'm concerned that JS doesn't really care. He hasn't been inclined to give 2nd contracts to Guards/Centers and even traded Unger in his prime for a player who didn't fit what we were doing on Offense. I hope I'm wrong, but I get the impression that he will just not re-sign any G or C for a 2nd contract and take the comp pick instead and draft another one. That means that the OL will never really be good, but serviceable at best.
And for gods sake keep the players at the positions they played in at college. There's too much to learn just getting into the NFL for the first couple of years to add another position into the mix regardless of if it's just on the opposite side of the line.

I think he gave Justin Britt a 2nd contract, but I get your point. You can include tackles in that equation, too. Even Russell Okung, PC/JS's very first draft pick, wasn't resigned to a 2nd contract.

But the question remains, how much of that tendency can be attributed to Pete and how much do we blame John? Since Pete had veto authority, I tend to point the finger at Pete. it might take a few years before we can get a handle on just where JS stands with regards to the offensive line as it's a pretty empty cupboard at the moment. Of our two tackles, Cross has underperformed, and Lucas has injury problems, and even they won't be up for a new contract for a couple of years.

I keep thinking about his comment earlier this year about Guards being drafted too high and paid too much.
I don’t know if it’s a core philosophy or he was just pondering a train of thought, but if we look at the history it suggests he could really think that way.
We just saw Damien Lewis go and them draft a replacement. Maybe it’s because of the bungled Cap situation but maybe it just fits his way of thinking.

Here's a comment about our OL and Lucas in particular. Hopefully the knee isn't a chronic issue after all.

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2024/ ... aham-lucas

NorthHawk wrote:Here's a comment about our OL and Lucas in particular. Hopefully the knee isn't a chronic issue after all.

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2024/ ... aham-lucas

I cannot recall someone recovering from a knee issue like this, especially a guy Lucas's size.

NorthHawk wrote:Here's a comment about our OL and Lucas in particular. Hopefully the knee isn't a chronic issue after all.

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2024/ ... aham-lucas

Thanks for the update. It's a kinda good news/bad news proposition. The good news is that it may not be chronic after all, but the bad news is that it's taking him longer than expected to rehab, which could mean that it's chronic after all.

We don't really know, do we? But just maybe it's manageable for Lucas to make a good career out of it after all. I hope so for both us and him.
I'm hoping they were overly cautious with his rehab and he's good to go for a whole year.

Story from ESPN regarding the OL and an interesting comment about Lucas:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/402 ... geno-smith

NorthHawk wrote:Story from ESPN regarding the OL and an interesting comment about Lucas:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/402 ... geno-smith

Honest question as I must have missed something. What's different about Lucas' assessment? "It's not chronic but it's taking longer to heal than anticipated so maybe it is chronic." Isn't that what we heard earlier?

I don't have a lot of faith in Olu to solidify the center position, and as the article indicated, Cross has been a bit of a disappointment given that he was taken with the 9th overall. It looks like once again, the OL is going to be a weak spot.

Another report that the injury to Lucas isn't necessarily a chronic issue.
As well, it looks like Olu has the lead as the starting Center.
But, yah, it's early in the year so there's a lot to happen even before TC begins.

NorthHawk wrote:Another report that the injury to Lucas isn't necessarily a chronic issue.
As well, it looks like Olu has the lead as the starting Center.
But, yah, it's early in the year so there's a lot to happen even before TC begins.

Is that another report or just someone else repeating the same thing?

Olu has the lead by default as there isn't anyone of the roster to challenge him. He hasn't done anything on the field, at least not yet, to justify considering him the starter. I'm still skeptical.

The OL is definitely the place to focus our attention on this preseason as there's so many open positions and question marks.

But the center job feels like Oluwatimi's to lose. The 2023 fifth-round pick more than held his own in his lone start as a rookie, posting a 94.1% PBWR in a win over Arizona.

PBWR: Pass Block Win Rate

It's only 1 game but maybe there's hope...

But the center job feels like Oluwatimi's to lose. The 2023 fifth-round pick more than held his own in his lone start as a rookie, posting a 94.1% PBWR in a win over Arizona.

NorthHawk wrote:PBWR: Pass Block Win Rate

It's only 1 game but maybe there's hope...

I haven't renewed my PFF membership yet so I can't access their player grades, but Olu graded out pretty poorly for the season, in the bottom 10% of centers if I recall. He scored relatively decent in pass blocking, but very poorly in run blocking, which was the rap on him coming out of college.

I flop between being optimistic and pessimistic, but just maybe after a year in a professional weight room, nutrition, and strength coaching he will be a lot stronger.
Most linemen coming out of college need to add strength, so if the pass blocking is already OK then maybe the run blocking can improve.

NorthHawk wrote:I flop between being optimistic and pessimistic, but just maybe after a year in a professional weight room, nutrition, and strength coaching he will be a lot stronger.
Most linemen coming out of college need to add strength, so if the pass blocking is already OK then maybe the run blocking can improve.

Well, that's definitely the glass half full take. My point is that he hasn't done anything to earn that starting spot and I hope the heck that they haven't already written him in as the unchallenged starter.

It will be a position of interest as we head into the preseason.

It will be a position of interest as we head into the preseason.

As it seems to be for the last decade.

Hopefully Mike values O-line more than Pete did.

Well, let's hope that it was Pete that was devaluing the OL and not JS.