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In 2013 we had the LOB backing up a stacked front seven with more traditional 4 man fronts that rotated Michael Bennett and Cliff Avril in on Pass Rush Roles. Our current front seven is close in body types but much younger and able to scheme different looks because of marrying half 3-4 and half 4-3 looks but with personnel better suited for 3-4 roles...the "extra" end being a hybrid (having more speed and range for coverage than a traditional end by blending high pass rush skills yet athletic enough like a LB to drop back in underneath coverage...which is why Derick Hall makes more sense and also accounts for Boye Mafe being chosen from last years draft...as the template they were looking for. Comparing body sizes from 2013 and now...we are similar but the roles are more dynamic in execution and our 2013 line had more experience sprinkled in.

Red Bryant 6'5" 326 LDE (Jarran Reed 6'3" 306 5T/Big DE)
Tony McDaniel 6'7" 305 LDT (Mike Morris 6'6" 295 5T/Big DE)
Chris Clemons 6'3" 255 RDE (Uchenna Nwosu 6'2" 251 Edge)
Michael Bennett 6'4" 275 DE (Dre'Mont Jones 6'3" 281 3T/DE)
Cliff Avril 6'3" 260 DE (Mario Edwards 6'3" 280 3T/DE)
Brandon Mebane 6'1" 311 RDT (Cam Young 6'3" 320 NT/DT)
Bruce Irvin 6'3" 250 OLB (Darryl Taylor 6'4" 267 Edge)
KJ Wright 6'4" 246 OLB (Derick Hall 6'3" 252 Edge)
Bobby Wagner as himself from 2013 but now older and wiser : 6'0" 240 (Inside Off Ball LB same as Jordyn Brooks*and Devin Bush)

Our extras: Boye Mafe 6'4" 261/ Tyreke Smith 6'3" 255/ Robert Cooper 6'1" 301/ MJ Anderson 6'3" 273/ Bryan Mone 6'3" 345/ Forest Merrill 6'1" 338/ Alton Robinson 6'3" 259/ and Devin Bush 5'11" 234

The reconstruction of the D line this off season may indicate a small philosophy change. Letting Woods and Ford go, both solid tackles with limited mobility, and have added a number of more athletic, if somewhat less beefy, interior guys like Jones, Morris and Edwards. The big butts they added, Reed and Young, while beefy, are more athletic than Woods and Ford. I think that they would have liked to keep Ford but were not able to sign him. Harris was a good player for us last season, but Hall looks to be an even better replacement.

Now if they can just tackle.

Old but Slow wrote:Now if they can just tackle.

Our ability to "tackle" was more related to our schemes and "wrinkles" in gap assignments which allowed more space for explosive plays and poor attack angles...you have to be close to contact to even be at risk of missing a tackle. Our miss tackle percentage as a team was actually our best(lowest) in the last 5 years. As a team we missed 77 tackles while making 1179 tackles (6.1% missed tackle rate). 2018 that rate was 9.5%...2019 was 11.4%...2020 was 7.7% and 2021 was 7.8%. Comparing our 2022 rate to a few teams in comparison...the 49ers made 1092 tackles while missing 64 at a miss tackle clip of 5.5%...the Eagles had 1098 tackles missing 68 for a 5.8% rate...and the Broncos made 1162 tackles while missing 98 with a 7.8% missed tackle rate.

As an example Cody Barton who seemed away from contact or having a bad attack angle made 130+ tackles while only missing 1 tackle...so it was scheme fit allowing higher depth before contact and many more explosive plays especially late in games that had us giving up 400+ points (our highest amount since 2010) with our offense just eeking out a few points higher.

In an effort to disguise our post snap formations from what the QB "sees" pre snap we have a need for faster more athletic assignments with a demand on much better communication. Jordyn Brooks was handling calls from the sideline and communicating to the rest of the team...this was his first since Wags handled those responsibilities before. Bobby Wagner has a respected leadership ability and a strength in communicating from experience.

Better communication and an influx of more "dynamic" athletes add to Clint Hurtts toolkit as he hones the schemes and play calling in his 2nd year as Defensive Coordinator. Go Hawks

The poor tackling has been going on for a few years, so it can't be put down to scheme.
When a defensive player hits a ball carrier and doesn't make the tackle, it's just not any type of scheme change. That's basic football.

NorthHawk wrote:The poor tackling has been going on for a few years, so it can't be put down to scheme.
When a defensive player hits a ball carrier and doesn't make the tackle, it's just not any type of scheme change. That's basic football.

Scheme plays a role...the whole team must execute its responsibilities as they "fit" together("you're all I got...you're all I need") to employ good form tackling at the point of attack. Josh Jones seemed to have these kind of issues...allowing Ryan Neal to claim the safety role along with Diggs. The 6.1% miss tackle rate is a continuing improvement as compared to the miss tackle rate of some of your better respected NFL defenses which is why I posted the 2022 results of the 49ers and the Eagles...both teams have strong front sevens that tackle well...our 6.1% is not as big a stray from their 5.2/5.8% rates as Denver's is from ours (7.8% to our 6.1%)...to me it seemed our scheme "fits" weren't executing well as some tackling attack angles seemed poor and depth of tackling "target" prior to contact seemed like gap integrity was failing.

NorthHawk wrote:The poor tackling has been going on for a few years, so it can't be put down to scheme.
When a defensive player hits a ball carrier and doesn't make the tackle, it's just not any type of scheme change. That's basic football.

I agree. Scheme puts you in a place or position from which to play football.

As an old wise man once said, 50% of football is tackling and 50% is blocking. Everything else is incidental.

Another example of how statistics can muddy the reality. Barton made a lot of tackles and did not miss tackles, but he led the league in yards given up. His average depth of tackles was around 7 yards. He seemed unable to diagnose well and became a chase linebacker rather than one who meets the ball carrier in the hole. It seems that missed tackles are more often from a head on contact rather than from just losing a grip, so chase backers will not usually miss as many tackles as one who faces up the carrier.

Wagner offers the opposite skill, regularly diagnosing well and meeting the ball near the LOS. He does not miss many tackles, though.

Speaking of Wagner, I am reminded of a pet idea of mine that athletes should have their height measured to the shoulders instead of the top of the head. Wagner has no neck. Look at the team pictures...some of those guys gain 3 inches on Bobby from the shoulders up. Does having a long neck benefit a player? It is probably more applicable to basketball, where some of those 7 footers are rather giraffe-like. And then there is the Paul Silas types who play much taller than they measure. Just sayin'.

Old but Slow wrote:Another example of how statistics can muddy the reality. Barton made a lot of tackles and did not miss tackles, but he led the league in yards given up. His average depth of tackles was around 7 yards. He seemed unable to diagnose well and became a chase linebacker rather than one who meets the ball carrier in the hole. It seems that missed tackles are more often from a head on contact rather than from just losing a grip, so chase backers will not usually miss as many tackles as one who faces up the carrier.

Yes I strongly agree (from a post up above) ...As an example Cody Barton who seemed away from contact or having a bad attack angle made 130+ tackles while only missing 1 tackle...so it was scheme fit allowing higher depth before contact and many more explosive plays especially late in games that had us giving up 400+ points (our highest amount since 2010) with our offense just eeking out a few points higher.

Our free agent pick ups and drafted rookies offer more flexibility to transition into our various fronts and gap schemes...we don't play a true 3-4 but a hybrid version using different coverages to mesh/support...stopping the explosive plays allowed will be a huge step this year and well into 2024/2025.

example Cody Barton who seemed away from contact or having a bad attack angle made 130+ tackles while only missing 1 tackle...so it was scheme fit allowing higher depth before contact

I saw Barton a little differently. I didn't see scheme fit as an issue, rather he was late to the point of contact (out of position?) thus giving the ball carrier or receiver a number of yards beyond the LoS before contact.
It might be why the FO didn't make much of an attempt to re-sign him.

Barton seemed like a backup at best to me. Because our talent was not what it used to be, he was able to make starter on the Seahawks.

Aseahawkfan wrote:Barton seemed like a backup at best to me. Because our talent was not what it used to be, he was able to make starter on the Seahawks.

I think our coaches liked BBK better than they did Barton, but the injury bug rose its ugly head. IMO Barton was Plan B.

Cooper got the boot this week. I was hopeful he could be a contributor at NT due to his size, but I also have to remember he's a UDFA.

Being a UDFA is very tenuous at best...we don't know why he was let go...

Our new front seven continues to offer content with Dre'Mont Jones (best free agent)...Boye Mafe (biggest rookie 2nd year leap)...Bobby Wagner(biggest missing ingredient) and Derick Hall (Star in the making?) Go hawks

My buddy says Jones looks like he muscled up and ready to roll. He wants to show he's the man.

Aseahawkfan wrote:My buddy says Jones looks like he muscled up and ready to roll. He wants to show he's the man.

Dre'Mont Jones gives interior push for getting behind the O-line either forcing a break down of the pocket or nailing QB (sacks/pressures) or RB (TFL) behind the line of scrimmage before they can "escape".

He gives us some ability to pressure the QB, but its been said the concern with him has been stopping the run. Maybe it's one of those things where it's perception more than reality.