Hip drop tackling being looked at for rule changes

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Hip drop tackling being looked at for rule changes

Postby trents » Sun Feb 05, 2023 2:21 pm

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/richard- ... ackle-rule

I loathe another rule being added to playing defense.
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Re: Hip drop tackling being looked at for rule changes

Postby NorthHawk » Sun Feb 05, 2023 3:04 pm

trents wrote:https://www.foxnews.com/sports/richard-sherman-nfl-players-react-to-possible-implementation-of-hip-drop-tackle-rule

I loathe another rule being added to playing defense.


Rule changes are bound to be considered when stars are injured. I’m sure the Defensive players would adjust, but
it might also mean a lesser product.
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Re: Hip drop tackling being looked at for rule changes

Postby RiverDog » Sun Feb 05, 2023 3:34 pm

trents wrote:https://www.foxnews.com/sports/richard-sherman-nfl-players-react-to-possible-implementation-of-hip-drop-tackle-rule

I loathe another rule being added to playing defense.


I'm with trents on this one. Unless you want to convert the game to flag football, no matter how many rule changes they make, players are still going to get injured.
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Re: Hip drop tackling being looked at for rule changes

Postby Hawktawk » Sun Feb 05, 2023 4:00 pm

It won’t matter because they will call or not call it how they see fit depending on their bias or bookie or bifocals .

Like the Horse Collar rule after TO that was utterly ignored when Joey Porter did it to MVP SA in XL . Right in front of the official.
F the league . Fire every ref and start over . Then I might pay attention

I’d like them to learn how to call and not call the rules they have instead of making it up as they go .

It’s the worst officiating in any pro sport and this will make it even worse . I’d like to see real change to improve officiating before I bail on the sport which I’m getting closer by the game .
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Re: Hip drop tackling being looked at for rule changes

Postby trents » Sun Feb 05, 2023 8:44 pm

Hawktawk wrote:It’s the worst officiating in any pro sport and this will make it even worse.


I'm not sure if it's any worse than the officiating in the NBA. If a defender even gets close to touching one of the big name offensive stars in the NBA, a foul is automatically called. They want to promote the icons of their sport and promote high scoring games because their perception is that it excites the fans. In that sense, there is a significant difference in how the refs call a college basketball game and how the refs call an NBA game. That might be changing with NIL, however.
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Re: Hip drop tackling being looked at for rule changes

Postby Hawktawk » Sun Feb 05, 2023 9:03 pm

Hawktawk wrote:It’s the worst officiating in any pro sport and this will make it even worse.


I'm not sure if it's any worse than the officiating in the NBA. If a defender even gets close to touching one of the big name offensive stars in the NBA, a foul is automatically called. They want to promote the icons of their sport and promote high scoring games because their perception is that it excites the fans. In that sense, there is a significant difference in how the refs call a college basketball game and how the refs call an NBA game. That might be changing with NIL, however.[/quote]
I think the game of football is easier to affect with a bad call or no call then any other sport . A score is 7, a large percentage of the overall score usually . A hold can erase that . A pi can be a 60 yard call .

It’s bad right now . That AFC championship has me not wanting to even watch the super bowl , just incompetence . Tired of getting invested in a team and having the zebras decide it .
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Re: Hip drop tackling being looked at for rule changes

Postby RiverDog » Mon Feb 06, 2023 4:57 am

Hawktawk wrote:It’s the worst officiating in any pro sport and this will make it even worse.

I think the game of football is easier to affect with a bad call or no call then any other sport . A score is 7, a large percentage of the overall score usually . A hold can erase that . A pi can be a 60 yard call .

It’s bad right now . That AFC championship has me not wanting to even watch the super bowl , just incompetence . Tired of getting invested in a team and having the zebras decide it .


I saw this article on my news feed this morning and immediately thought of you as it involved one of the penalties that you had a big issue with. It's a comment from the offending Bengals player on the late hit he committed on Mahomes in the waning seconds of the AFCCG that put the Chiefs into FG range:

Prior to the fateful penalty, (Joesph) Ossai was putting together a strong game. The 2021 third-round pick out of Texas finished with five tackles, two quarterback hits and a pass defensed in the Bengals' 23-20 loss.

“I’ve just got to learn from experience,” an emotional Ossai said postgame. “I’ve got to know not to get close to that quarterback when he’s close to that sideline if there’s anything that could possibly cause a penalty. In a situation like that I’ve got to be better.”


https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/nf ... 0960c7b71e

My take on the penalty was that it wasn't a violent or egregious contact as the league recognized by their decision not to levy a fine, but it occurred several steps out of bounds for both players and Ossai undoubtedly could have and should have held up. It had to be called or else it would have been the Chiefs that would have gone ballistic. I felt badly for Ossai as it was a mistake that's likely to haunt him for the rest of his life, but it's refreshing to see that he's apparently accepted it rather than complain or make excuses.

In all sincerity, I think you need to take a closer look at how you're viewing officiating. It's far from perfect and can and should be improved, but it's no worse now than it's been for eons and arguably better. There is no credible evidence anywhere that any of the officials are corrupt.
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Re: Hip drop tackling being looked at for rule changes

Postby Hawktawk » Mon Feb 06, 2023 7:06 am

Hawktawk wrote:It’s the worst officiating in any pro sport and this will make it even worse.

I think the game of football is easier to affect with a bad call or no call then any other sport . A score is 7, a large percentage of the overall score usually . A hold can erase that . A pi can be a 60 yard call .

It’s bad right now . That AFC championship has me not wanting to even watch the super bowl , just incompetence . Tired of getting invested in a team and having the zebras decide it .


I saw this article on my news feed this morning and immediately thought of you as it involved one of the penalties that you had a big issue with. It's a comment from the offending Bengals player on the late hit he committed on Mahomes in the waning seconds of the AFCCG that put the Chiefs into FG range:

Prior to the fateful penalty, (Joesph) Ossai was putting together a strong game. The 2021 third-round pick out of Texas finished with five tackles, two quarterback hits and a pass defensed in the Bengals' 23-20 loss.

“I’ve just got to learn from experience,” an emotional Ossai said postgame. “I’ve got to know not to get close to that quarterback when he’s close to that sideline if there’s anything that could possibly cause a penalty. In a situation like that I’ve got to be better.”


https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/nf ... 0960c7b71e

My take on the penalty was that it wasn't a violent or egregious contact as the league recognized by their decision not to levy a fine, but it occurred several steps out of bounds for both players and Ossai undoubtedly could have and should have held up. It had to be called or else it would have been the Chiefs that would have gone ballistic. I felt badly for Ossai as it was a mistake that's likely to haunt him for the rest of his life, but it's refreshing to see that he's apparently accepted it rather than complain or make excuses.

In all sincerity, I think you need to take a closer look at how you're viewing officiating. It's far from perfect and can and should be improved, but it's no worse now than it's been for eons and arguably better.There is no credible evidence anywhere that any of the officials are corrupt.[/quote]

There’s a bookie on the record regarding an official from XL .yeah I believe him 100% I’m sure among 121 refs someone has a gambling issue , probably a few .

I I’m not sure what was up with the AFC title game beyond a clear bias and incompetence . The foul on the sideline usually gets called , especially when the qb flops like lebron James . I lost some respect there.

My problem is the clear hold / block in the back on the return they decide isn’t enough to call or the clear hold on the play that gets Mahomes to the edge . My problem is the free play given KC due to the clock operator being incorrectly ordered to start it by the ref who wound up nullifying the play even though it ran with no whistle , no interruption .

I have a problem with the end of the Commanders game with the giants , unethical dirty call then blatant no call . The entire game with the saints.

The series vs KC when an offsides gets us in 3rd and 1 near the 40 . But wait , conference time between idiots . No it’s Blythe with a false start . Utter crap call .

3rd and 1 becomes 3rd and 11. Next play 10 yard sack . Potential first near midfield becomes punt from the 20 early in the game . At a minimum it changed field position 20 yards .

2 flags both legit picked up after a clown conference in Munich . Last 2 minutes of Raiders Game. No call on a clear offsides vs Carolina after no call on a huge pass interference ve Carolina.

3 ticky tack msn downfield calls in the WC while ignoring a hold on Neal on a breakaway run and an absolute lock down on Woolen on the Deebo score .



No calls are a bigger problem . But they make it up as they go . I have zero interest in WWF. It’s where the sports going . I don’t care about this super bowl in the slightest .
Can’t take a lot more .
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Re: Hip drop tackling being looked at for rule changes

Postby Old but Slow » Mon Feb 06, 2023 10:55 pm

I immediately thought of you, HT, when I heard the remark: "Pay Geno $34 million? You could buy 34 refs for that".
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Re: Hip drop tackling being looked at for rule changes

Postby MackStrongIsMyHero » Tue Feb 07, 2023 3:51 pm

RiverDog wrote:My take on the penalty was that it wasn't a violent or egregious contact as the league recognized by their decision not to levy a fine, but it occurred several steps out of bounds for both players and Ossai undoubtedly could have and should have held up. It had to be called or else it would have been the Chiefs that would have gone ballistic. I felt badly for Ossai as it was a mistake that's likely to haunt him for the rest of his life, but it's refreshing to see that he's apparently accepted it rather than complain or make excuses.

In all sincerity, I think you need to take a closer look at how you're viewing officiating. It's far from perfect and can and should be improved, but it's no worse now than it's been for eons and arguably better. There is no credible evidence anywhere that any of the officials are corrupt.


I don't know that it was corrupt, but I'm more and more against making that call. The ball carrier, especially if it's the quarterback, has every advantage in going for the first down. He can turn up field and dig as hard as he can to get the first and then jump out of bounds. To add to it, the onus of avoiding contact is on the defender not the ball carrier. Mahomes had two feet out of bounds, but he got hit right after the second foot came down. That could very well be what kept a fine from happening, but it shouldn't draw a flag. Mahomes could have gone out before it ever became that close of a call. The NFL needs to start putting responsibility of avoiding those situations on the QB not the defender. If he turns up field to get a few extra yards and maybe the first, then he's probably going to get hit. Otherwise, he needs to pick his point of exit off the field before contact comes.

Not interested in this Super Bowl. Don't care to see an Eagles team pumped over beating a one-dimensional 49ers team and a KC team that benefitted from a weak unnecessary roughness call.
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Re: Hip drop tackling being looked at for rule changes

Postby RiverDog » Tue Feb 07, 2023 4:53 pm

RiverDog wrote:My take on the penalty was that it wasn't a violent or egregious contact as the league recognized by their decision not to levy a fine, but it occurred several steps out of bounds for both players and Ossai undoubtedly could have and should have held up. It had to be called or else it would have been the Chiefs that would have gone ballistic. I felt badly for Ossai as it was a mistake that's likely to haunt him for the rest of his life, but it's refreshing to see that he's apparently accepted it rather than complain or make excuses.

In all sincerity, I think you need to take a closer look at how you're viewing officiating. It's far from perfect and can and should be improved, but it's no worse now than it's been for eons and arguably better. There is no credible evidence anywhere that any of the officials are corrupt.


MackStrongIsMyHero wrote:I don't know that it was corrupt, but I'm more and more against making that call. The ball carrier, especially if it's the quarterback, has every advantage in going for the first down. He can turn up field and dig as hard as he can to get the first and then jump out of bounds. To add to it, the onus of avoiding contact is on the defender not the ball carrier. Mahomes had two feet out of bounds, but he got hit right after the second foot came down. That could very well be what kept a fine from happening, but it shouldn't draw a flag. Mahomes could have gone out before it ever became that close of a call. The NFL needs to start putting responsibility of avoiding those situations on the QB not the defender. If he turns up field to get a few extra yards and maybe the first, then he's probably going to get hit. Otherwise, he needs to pick his point of exit off the field before contact comes.

Not interested in this Super Bowl. Don't care to see an Eagles team pumped over beating a one-dimensional 49ers team and a KC team that benefitted from a weak unnecessary roughness call.


Mahomes was clearly out of bounds and Ossai admitted himself that he should have held up. It had to be called. If it wasn't, I can guarantee you that there would have been a feeding frenzy of Chiefs fans devouring the refs.

However, I agree with you in that I don't like seeing games decided by calls like that one. I think that a reasonable compromise would be to have two separate tiers of personal foul penalties, one for calls such as the one we're talking about in the AFCCG that would be 5 yards and not an automatic first down and a second, industrial strength tier that encompasses violent contact on defenseless receivers, blows to the head, etc. It would be a solution for some of those Panzie arse roughing the passer calls. They have it for roughing the kicker, I don't know why they couldn't do it for other personal fouls.
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Re: Hip drop tackling being looked at for rule changes

Postby MackStrongIsMyHero » Tue Feb 07, 2023 5:02 pm

RiverDog wrote: Mahomes was clearly out of bounds and Ossai admitted himself that he should have held up. It had to be called. If it wasn't, I can guarantee you that there would have been a feeding frenzy of Chiefs fans devouring the refs.

However, I agree with you in that I don't like seeing games decided by calls like that one. I think that a reasonable compromise would be to have two separate tiers of personal foul penalties, one for calls such as the one we're talking about in the AFCCG that would be 5 yards and not an automatic first down and a second, industrial strength tier that encompasses violent contact on defenseless receivers, blows to the head, etc. It would be a solution for some of those Panzie arse roughing the passer calls. They have it for roughing the kicker, I don't know why they couldn't do it for other personal fouls.


I know; he had two feet out of bounds, but that is all happening awfully fast. Because it happens so fast, I don't expect defenders to be able to hold up that quickly. If the defender is expected to pull up in that amount of time, then the qb has just as much opportunity to get out of bounds to avoid that situation. Ossai is taking the high road in my opinion; it's the right call on his part. Even if he is taking this one, I'm not putting that on him, not all of it at least. Mahomes pushed it to the limit. Don't turn up field if you don't want to draw that attention.

Not particularly concerned with the uproar from fanbases; none of us like calls/no calls that don't benefit our teams. Should that be something that draws flags? Fans going ape because they didn't get what they wanted?
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Re: Hip drop tackling being looked at for rule changes

Postby trents » Tue Feb 07, 2023 5:37 pm

I think there were several other ref calls that were more egregious than that one last Sunday. That hit on Mahomes out of bounds was the right call IMO but if it had not been called I wouldn't have considered it a missed call. It could have gone either way.
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Re: Hip drop tackling being looked at for rule changes

Postby RiverDog » Tue Feb 07, 2023 5:48 pm

MackStrongIsMyHero wrote:I know; he had two feet out of bounds, but that is all happening awfully fast. Because it happens so fast, I don't expect defenders to be able to hold up that quickly. If the defender is expected to pull up in that amount of time, then the qb has just as much opportunity to get out of bounds to avoid that situation. Ossai is taking the high road in my opinion; it's the right call on his part. Even if he is taking this one, I'm not putting that on him, not all of it at least. Mahomes pushed it to the limit. Don't turn up field if you don't want to draw that attention.


I highly doubt that Ossai would have been as willing to admit guilt if he truly thought he wasn't able to hold up. IMO if he felt that he was the victim of a bad call he most likely wouldn't have said anything. And BTW, he took a lot of grief from his teammates as they, too, realized that he could have held up. Here's a tweet from Germaine Pratt, a Bengals linebacker that he later apologized for:

“Why the f*ck would you touch the quarterback?!”

And this one, from cornerback Eli Apple:

You just can’t have it,” Bengals cornerback Eli Apple told USA TODAY Sports. “It’s crucial. Crucial. Of course, the field position ... tack on 15 yards. It wasn’t just that play. It was a lot of other plays. You don’t want to put it all on him (Ossai). But obviously, that’s something you can’t do.”

And there's a notable absence of any protests from the Bengals coaches.

MackStrongIsMyHero wrote:Not particularly concerned with the uproar from fanbases; none of us like calls/no calls that don't benefit our teams. Should that be something that draws flags? Fans going ape because they didn't get what they wanted?


My point was that there was no middle ground in a situation like that. They let that penalty go and they would have been roasted, not only by the fans but in the media, perhaps even by the league itself.
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Re: Hip drop tackling being looked at for rule changes

Postby Hawktawk » Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:34 pm

He pushes with one hand and Mahomes flops to boot which sickens me . When he waved his arms all the flags flew .

I’ll give zach Taylor credit . He’s a hell of a coach and his team was good enough to win it . Most anyone watching the game feels the Bengals were systematically hosed throughout . They sure were in the final few ( most important ) minutes .

Taylor didn’t make a peep . Class act . I recall Holmgren after XL , I agreed , still do more all the time but it was a bad weak look .

I’m with Mack if they are gonna milk every inch out of a sideline run they better not flop and milk 15. I’m not sure the guy who pushed Mahomes wasn’t held on the same play . Hold on return directly at the point of attack not called . Hold on the Mahomes scramble , not called but 2 seconds later a 1 hand push to a guy who flops like Lebron ends the game .

You see my point ? It’s the job of the fans to change it or I guess look at the biggest clowns in all of pro sports changing destinies as part of the fun .
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Re: Hip drop tackling being looked at for rule changes

Postby MackStrongIsMyHero » Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:39 pm

When I say he's taking the high road, I'm say he's not going to trash the call in public, and he's going to put the blame on himself. I just don't think he should take the blame; not all of it. What good would do for him or the coaches or any other players to trash the call in public anyway? That the coaches aren't doesn't mean they agree it was a good and/or right call, but it's not worth stirring the pot publicly.

Pratt and Apple can also be upset about the hit and still not agree with the call. As in, they can agree Ossai shouldn't have gone for the QB because the situation favors the QB not because it's a good or right call. Of course, they wanted to have a chance at advancing to the super bowl. I'm sure they are saying to themselves they wouldn't have done it.

Yes, they will call that stuff, especially in favor of a guy like Mahomes, at home, in the playoffs. I know why they did it. I still don't agree with it, and I think they need to change how it is viewed. I'll double-down on putting more responsibility on the ball carrier, especially QBs, to avoid the contact. It's too bang-bang to expect to defenders to pull up every time it's close like that. No more turning up field to try and edge out defenders. Just get out of bounds.
Last edited by MackStrongIsMyHero on Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hip drop tackling being looked at for rule changes

Postby MackStrongIsMyHero » Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:41 pm

Hawktawk wrote:He pushes with one hand and Mahomes flops to boot which sickens me . When he waved his arms all the flags flew .

I’ll give zach Taylor credit . He’s a hell of a coach and his team was good enough to win it . Most anyone watching the game feels the Bengals were systematically hosed throughout . They sure were in the final few ( most important ) minutes .

Taylor didn’t make a peep . Class act . I recall Holmgren after XL , I agreed , still do more all the time but it was a bad weak look .

I’m with Mack if they are gonna milk every inch out of a sideline run they better not flop and milk 15. I’m not sure the guy who pushed Mahomes wasn’t held on the same play . Hold on return directly at the point of attack not called . Hold on the Mahomes scramble , not called but 2 seconds later a 1 hand push to a guy who flops like Lebron ends the game .

You see my point ? It’s the job of the fans to change it or I guess look at the biggest clowns in all of pro sports changing destinies as part of the fun .


Yes, Taylor was classy to the end.
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Re: Hip drop tackling being looked at for rule changes

Postby RiverDog » Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:42 pm

trents wrote:I think there were several other ref calls that were more egregious than that one last Sunday. That hit on Mahomes out of bounds was the right call IMO but if it had not been called I wouldn't have considered it a missed call. It could have gone either way.


I agree. Seeing the play in real time, it looked like a penalty to me, but I could see not throwing the flag, too. Maybe if the game were in Cincinatti instead of Kansas City they might not have thrown the flag. Hard to say.

I don't care of Mahomes flopped or not. When any player is out of bounds, you have to keep your GD hands off of them. It's always been that way, and I've seen much less obvious penalties in situations like that called. You know where you and your opponent are on the field, so it's pretty simple. As soon as it's apparent that they're going out of bounds, you let up. It's like roughing the punter. You'd better not touch them unless you're damn sure you can touch the ball. I felt badly for the guy as even his teammate ripped into him, and to Taylor's immense credit, he consoled him, let him cry on his shoulder. Tough lesson.
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Re: Hip drop tackling being looked at for rule changes

Postby Old but Slow » Tue Feb 07, 2023 9:50 pm

To get back to the proposed rule change, my main objection to this kind of rule is that it is too subjective. The league has too many rules governing behavior that is poorly defined. Pass interference, for example, is very widely interpreted by different officials. It is not like a face mask penalty or horse collar where there is little room for interpretation, but is evident even to the casual fan. The field officials already have a tough job, making decisions immediately, and knowing that they may be affecting the game.

We have come along way from the clothesline tackle, but that does not mean that we need to legislate every move.
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Re: Hip drop tackling being looked at for rule changes

Postby RiverDog » Wed Feb 08, 2023 5:02 am

Old but Slow wrote:To get back to the proposed rule change, my main objection to this kind of rule is that it is too subjective. The league has too many rules governing behavior that is poorly defined. Pass interference, for example, is very widely interpreted by different officials. It is not like a face mask penalty or horse collar where there is little room for interpretation, but is evident even to the casual fan. The field officials already have a tough job, making decisions immediately, and knowing that they may be affecting the game.

We have come along way from the clothesline tackle, but that does not mean that we need to legislate every move.


I agree with that, but I'll add that the types of injuries this proposed rule is intended to prevent aren't life threatening like those involving the head and neck. A high ankle sprain or even a complex fracture isn't going to haunt a player for the rest of their life like a concussion or a spinal injury might. It's not a huge priority and is driven as much if not more by the popularity of the injured player than it is player safety.
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Re: Hip drop tackling being looked at for rule changes

Postby NorthHawk » Wed Feb 08, 2023 7:45 am

The grey areas of the rule book are what cause most of the trouble. How long did it take them to define what a catch really is and we still have debates from time to time.
But what can we expect from a bunch of lawyers writing rule books - common sense?
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Re: Hip drop tackling being looked at for rule changes

Postby Hawktawk » Wed Feb 08, 2023 8:17 am

And as I say the horse tackle rule was implemented after 2004 when Terrell Owens had his ankle broken by the Dallas safety . They had no problem calling the foul till XL when Alexander is off to the races and Porter lays out horizontal and gets one hand on the shoulder pad and rips him down . Al Michaels in the booth “ that sure looked like a horse collar but they probably aren’t going to call that “ both men laugh . I’m still trying to get the funny joke 17 years later .

Another subjective rule is another way for incompetent , biased , possibly even corrupt officials to manipulate games . I hear we’re getting Carl Cheffers for this Super Bowl . His most famous game was the uncalled worst pi I’ve ever seen in the saints rams nfc title game , a personal foul imo .

His crews have called more penalties last 2 years then anyone else so it isn’t like they don’t know how to throw a flag . They just choose not to sometimes which is as devastating as a bs call .
Good luck to the teams . I hope it’s decided on the field but I doubt it .
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Re: Hip drop tackling being looked at for rule changes

Postby Hawktawk » Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:37 pm

Goodell at a press conference today asked about all the bad calls . “ officiating has never been better “
So there it is.
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Re: Hip drop tackling being looked at for rule changes

Postby MackStrongIsMyHero » Thu Feb 09, 2023 9:15 am

Old but Slow wrote:To get back to the proposed rule change, my main objection to this kind of rule is that it is too subjective. The league has too many rules governing behavior that is poorly defined. Pass interference, for example, is very widely interpreted by different officials. It is not like a face mask penalty or horse collar where there is little room for interpretation, but is evident even to the casual fan. The field officials already have a tough job, making decisions immediately, and knowing that they may be affecting the game.

We have come along way from the clothesline tackle, but that does not mean that we need to legislate every move.


RiverDog wrote:I agree with that, but I'll add that the types of injuries this proposed rule is intended to prevent aren't life threatening like those involving the head and neck. A high ankle sprain or even a complex fracture isn't going to haunt a player for the rest of their life like a concussion or a spinal injury might. It's not a huge priority and is driven as much if not more by the popularity of the injured player than it is player safety.


Now that I've read the article, I think this is overkill. How are defenders supposed to bring a ball carrier down when they chase him down from behind. Banning the high horse collar tackle was legitimate. It was very dangerous. This rule would then make defenders always go for the feet, which I'm sure runner would love. Would be a lot easier to get out of that tackle. The game can't keep limiting defenders.
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Re: Hip drop tackling being looked at for rule changes

Postby RiverDog » Thu Feb 09, 2023 9:50 am

MackStrongIsMyHero wrote:Now that I've read the article, I think this is overkill. How are defenders supposed to bring a ball carrier down when they chase him down from behind. Banning the high horse collar tackle was legitimate. It was very dangerous. This rule would then make defenders always go for the feet, which I'm sure runner would love. Would be a lot easier to get out of that tackle. The game can't keep limiting defenders.


The horse collar tackle is very easy for a player to avoid and easy for an official to call. I don't see very many that are missed (yes, HT, SA was the victim of an uncalled one in XL) or very many that are inappropriately called. In order for it to be a penalty, the defender's hand has to be inside the collar of the jersey. The rule has been very effective in nearly eliminating it.

Not so with the hip drop tackle.
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Re: Hip drop tackling being looked at for rule changes

Postby MackStrongIsMyHero » Thu Feb 09, 2023 11:41 am

I agree about the horse collar; I think it had to go.

What it is it about hip drop tackling that is so wrong? Players get injured, that's a thing, but this seems to make it very difficult to tackle a ball carrier once he's past you or starting to run away from you.
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Re: Hip drop tackling being looked at for rule changes

Postby RiverDog » Thu Feb 09, 2023 12:18 pm

MackStrongIsMyHero wrote:I agree about the horse collar; I think it had to go.

What it is it about hip drop tackling that is so wrong? Players get injured, that's a thing, but this seems to make it very difficult to tackle a ball carrier once he's past you or starting to run away from you.


The issue with the hip drop is very similar to why they banned the horse collar, that you're tackling the ball carrier from behind then falling on their leg(s) with their full body weight. Patrick Mahomes and Tony Pollard suffered injuries during the divisional round of the playoffs due to that kind of tackle, which is why they're talking about it now.

Here's a description with a picture of Pollard's injury:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/nf ... r-AA177bNi
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Re: Hip drop tackling being looked at for rule changes

Postby c_hawkbob » Thu Feb 09, 2023 12:33 pm

Doesn't matter, it's almost impossible to run down a ball carrier from behind and tackle him without letting your weight bring him down. It's effectively unenforceable. If they are going this rout they honestly should put flags on their belts so they can safely be tackled from behind.
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Re: Hip drop tackling being looked at for rule changes

Postby RiverDog » Thu Feb 09, 2023 2:23 pm

c_hawkbob wrote:Doesn't matter, it's almost impossible to run down a ball carrier from behind and tackle him without letting your weight bring him down. It's effectively unenforceable. If they are going this rout they honestly should put flags on their belts so they can safely be tackled from behind.


One of the rare times that everyone in the forum is in complete agreement, or at least I haven't heard anyone offer a POV in support of this rule change.
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Re: Hip drop tackling being looked at for rule changes

Postby MackStrongIsMyHero » Thu Feb 09, 2023 2:50 pm

I think the horse collar is far more dangerous than this method of tackling; there's a lot more distance between the point of applied force and the ball carriers feet when he gets grabbed by his shoulder pads.

I understand the hip drop can have some unfortunate leg injuries, but I'm more concerned with what else can defenders do? Do they have to stay on their feet for the entirety of tackles?

Mahomes gets a high-ankle sprain (and Pollard's leg to a lesser extent) and now the NFL wants to hamstring defenders even more. SMDH.
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Re: Hip drop tackling being looked at for rule changes

Postby NorthHawk » Fri Feb 10, 2023 10:36 am

I think they would find a better way to tackle. It would mean around the waist or lower, but as Sherman said it happens as a desperation move by a defensive player to stop the runner from getting extra yards.
From the article, I don't see it as tackling someone from behind being outlawed, but swinging into the legs while hanging on to the waist.
If history is any indication and they do adopt a new rule, bet on it to have so many grey areas that nobody will know how to enforce it and there will be much debate on whether a tackle meets the criteria for a penalty.
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Re: Hip drop tackling being looked at for rule changes

Postby MackStrongIsMyHero » Fri Feb 10, 2023 10:44 am

I was thinking it just meant they were using their own dead weight to help bring the runner down. Swinging their lower body into the runners legs should be a no-no.
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Re: Hip drop tackling being looked at for rule changes

Postby NorthHawk » Fri Feb 10, 2023 10:48 am

MackStrongIsMyHero wrote:I was thinking it just meant they were using their own dead weight to help bring the runner down. Swinging their lower body into the runners legs should be a no-no.


Maybe I'm confused about what they really mean.
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Re: Hip drop tackling being looked at for rule changes

Postby MackStrongIsMyHero » Fri Feb 10, 2023 3:07 pm

MackStrongIsMyHero wrote:I was thinking it just meant they were using their own dead weight to help bring the runner down. Swinging their lower body into the runners legs should be a no-no.


NorthHawk wrote:Maybe I'm confused about what they really mean.


Per the article:

"Hip-drop" tackles historically have been associated with ankle and leg injuries due to the manner in which defenders drop their body weight to the turf while attempting to tackle ball carriers from behind."

That's not to say throwing their lower body under the ball carrier's legs doesn't happen, it doesn't appear to be what the proposed rule is trying to prevent. It would mean the defenders can't use their own dead weight to bring the ball carrier down. Not sure what else they can do when tackling a ball carrier from behind.
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