Battle in Seattle for QB1

[Hawktawk]

Geno Smith entered the first pregame tilt with a clear if short lead on Drew. I’ll be interested to see Pete’s thoughts and his practice decisions . Lock 14 points 2 TDs and a huge turnover to lose . Geno accurate early, 6-7 with a 3rd down drop in the hands . Also Fants boneheaded step out of bounds on a beautiful throw . But 10-14 in scoring . Showed nice wheels and fearlessness . But drops don’t count ask Flynn.
I’ve been hoping Lock will win for the immediate future of the franchise . Although Geno completed 66% with no turnovers while Lock looked at ease until the killer turnover . Pete doesn’t like those . So let’s see . Either guy looked to me like they would be plenty serviceable with the ones and our top skill people . Plenty serviceable . May the best man win . With the editor of DenverFan.com writing “ a bit of truth serum there’s something nobody would dare utter publicly . Russell Wilson has been underwhelming in training camp “.

I’d say Geno and Lock are tied at halftime with 2 games to go but whoever wins the sky isn’t falling .

[RiverDog]

Pete's thoughts are easy to predict. He'll do what he always does, blow a bunch of smoke, tell everyone how great they are.

Had it not been for Lock giving up that strip sack at the end of the game, I would have said that he had the edge. But he not only failed to pick up on the blitz pre-snap, but he also locked (no pun intended) onto his receiver and didn't check his blind side in what he should have recognized as a blitzing situation.

Both QB's threw the ball pretty well, but I thought that Lock had a little better pocket presence. There were times when Geno broke the pocket w/o any pressure. But then again, Geno was going up against #1's and #2s' while Lock was going up against the bubble players.

I'd call it a toss up.

[NorthHawk]

Geno got to play with the better players on Offense, but I expect it to be reversed against the Bears.
It only makes sense to give both a chance with the 1's to see how they do. If the competition in Pete's mind is really that close.

[Uppercut]

Wonder if Jimmy G is on PC's speed dial

[Hawktawk]

Wonder if Jimmy G is on PC's speed dial

Jimmy G had 20 touchdowns and 12 picks last year . Where’s the beef ? And he’s almost as old as Geno . Looks to me like we can win with either guy throwing to and handing off to our skill people . I think if we wanted Jimmy we would have him already and I think the mood in the locker room would be mixed bringing in a guy 3 weeks before the opener .

[TriCitySam]

The strip/sack was unfortunate - but: 93 was COMPLETELY unblocked, he had a free run and Lock was hit from the blind side just as he set (like 2.0 sec). So, I'm not blaming him. Don't know if it was a mistake in our scheme (4 guys to block 5) or if the RB should have picked it up - he went out into a route.

p.s. I'll assume it was the RB - #36 Darwin Thompson (who?) that messed it up.

[c_hawkbob]

Lock was not at all to blame for that strip sack, it was a true 'blind side' hit, definite breakdown of the blocking scheme.

[TriCitySam]

Lock was not at all to blame for that strip sack, it was a true 'blind side' hit, definite breakdown of the blocking scheme.

RW average release time in 2020 was over 2.9 sec - he would have been hit as well.

[RiverDog]

Lock was not at all to blame for that strip sack, it was a true 'blind side' hit, definite breakdown of the blocking scheme.

Both Pete and Lock himself said that it was the QB's fault:

"Pete Carroll was asked by @bcondotta if Drew Lock needed to see the unblocked rusher who caused the late sack fumble. Carroll said he needs clarification on what was called but thinks it was supposed to be a hot read. A few minutes later, Lock confirmed that the error was his.

https://money.yahoo.com/drew-lock-admits-crunchtime-sack-024801337.html

[Hawktawk]

Lock was not at all to blame for that strip sack, it was a true 'blind side' hit, definite breakdown of the blocking scheme.

TCS”
RW average release time in 2020 was over 2.9 sec - he would have been hit as well.[/quote]
I wasn’t going to mention it but since you brought it up watch the tape vs AZ.
RW had a worse strip sack in his last game in the rag. He failed to account for an unblocked Chandler Jones on his front side and spun out leading to a strip 6. It happens .

I read a story on our line performance which was quite favorable . Baldinger loved the play of both rookie tackles . 2 of the 3 sacks were judged to be on the qb. Not sure which 2 I was watching in a bar I’d like to see film of the strip on Lock to analyze it some more . Geno was pretty bland and boring , again with some drops but one play or actually pre snap stood out . Geno appeared to be audibling and someone was not lined up right and he repeatedly tried to get the alignment right before calling a timeout . I wonder what that play might have looked like had Geno just run it . It was a change field position and punt drive but there are worse things as Drew learned . Overall I am encouraged . We will not have the #35 qb , worst line etc . Not from what I’m seeing .

[RiverDog]

Lock was not at all to blame for that strip sack, it was a true 'blind side' hit, definite breakdown of the blocking scheme.

RW average release time in 2020 was over 2.9 sec - he would have been hit as well.

I wasn’t going to mention it but since you brought it up watch the tape vs AZ.
RW had a worse strip sack in his last game in the rag. He failed to account for an unblocked Chandler Jones on his front side and spun out leading to a strip 6. It happens.

How long is it going to take before you quit talking about Russell? Of course, it happens. Interceptions happen, too.

Drew Lock has had 21 career starts in the NFL, so this wasn't his first rodeo. Pre-snap reads are pretty basic no matter what kind of offense you're playing in. I will say that it's more difficult for a QB to make those reads/adjustments when they're under center, but other than that, there's no excuse for Lock not having made that read. However, I will give him some kudos for fessing up and admitting that the mistake was his.

[Aseahawkfan]

Lock already admitted he was to blame for the strip sack, which is rare. Pete also stated Lock missed a hot read to adjust the protection. So it was one of the few times when the coach and QB both admitted they missed a call to adjust protection to deal with pressure. It was interesting to know the specifics of what happened. Not many QBs or coaches are that open with the fan base and media.

[Hawktawk]

“RW average release time in 2020 was over 2.9 sec - he would have been hit as well.”

I wasn’t going to mention it but since you brought it up watch the tape vs AZ.
RW had a worse strip sack in his last game in the rag. He failed to account for an unblocked Chandler Jones on his front side and spun out leading to a strip 6. It happens.[/quote]

How long is it going to take before you quit talking about Russell? Of course, it happens. Interceptions happen, too.

Drew Lock has had 21 career starts in the NFL, so this wasn't his first rodeo. Pre-snap reads are pretty basic no matter what kind of offense you're playing in. I will say that it's more difficult for a QB to make those reads/adjustments when they're under center, but other than that, there's no excuse for Lock not having made that read. However, I will give him some kudos for fessing up and admitting that the mistake was his.[/quote]

I was RESPONDING to TCS comments about RUSS holding the ball. My point being agreement and pointing out the sky isn’t falling if Lock made the mistake because the 35 million dude made a worse one . When are you going to quit telling me what to post .

I’m happy with Lock being a stand up guy because it’s been rare around here . Love guys who are harder on themselves then anyone else is .blame themselves and not others . But if he keeps making those types of mistakes he won’t start for Pete .

[RiverDog]

Lock already admitted he was to blame for the strip sack, which is rare. Pete also stated Lock missed a hot read to adjust the protection. So it was one of the few times when the coach and QB both admitted they missed a call to adjust protection to deal with pressure. It was interesting to know the specifics of what happened. Not many QBs or coaches are that open with the fan base and media.

Yup, especially with the starting QB job up for grabs.

On a different topic, perhaps it was just an impression, but last night, our QB's seemed to have played a lot more over center vs. in the gun than we're used to seeing. I'm wondering if this wasn't by design, to give our rookie tackles more experience with playing with their hand in the dirt.

[Aseahawkfan]

“RW average release time in 2020 was over 2.9 sec - he would have been hit as well.”

I wasn’t going to mention it but since you brought it up watch the tape vs AZ.
RW had a worse strip sack in his last game in the rag. He failed to account for an unblocked Chandler Jones on his front side and spun out leading to a strip 6. It happens.

How long is it going to take before you quit talking about Russell? Of course, it happens. Interceptions happen, too.

Drew Lock has had 21 career starts in the NFL, so this wasn't his first rodeo. Pre-snap reads are pretty basic no matter what kind of offense you're playing in. I will say that it's more difficult for a QB to make those reads/adjustments when they're under center, but other than that, there's no excuse for Lock not having made that read. However, I will give him some kudos for fessing up and admitting that the mistake was his.

I was RESPONDING to TCS comments about RUSS holding the ball. My point being agreement and pointing out the sky isn’t falling if Lock made the mistake because the 35 million dude made a worse one . When are you going to quit telling me what to post .

I’m happy with Lock being a stand up guy because it’s been rare around here . Love guys who are harder on themselves then anyone else is .blame themselves and not others . But if he keeps making those types of mistakes he won’t start for Pete .

Nobody here was blaming others other than in your mind. It's rare for anyone to even mention something like a missed hot read anywhere in the NFL. No one likes telegraphing that intel and I doubt it will happen during the regular season. It was one of those preseason bits of information that would not be given out during the regular season because providing intel on some mistake or something that happened is not something NFL coaches like to do and they tell players to keep everything close to the vest. Telegraph no weaknesses or mistakes that any opponent can take advantage of is the mentality.

[RiverDog]

I was RESPONDING to TCS comments about RUSS holding the ball. My point being agreement and pointing out the sky isn’t falling if Lock made the mistake because the 35 million dude made a worse one . When are you going to quit telling me what to post .

I’m happy with Lock being a stand up guy because it’s been rare around here . Love guys who are harder on themselves then anyone else is .blame themselves and not others . But if he keeps making those types of mistakes he won’t start for Pete .

I didn't see that in your response, so I'll at least partially apologize.

I'm not telling you what you can/can't post. What I'm telling you is that I'm getting damn tired of all the negative comparisons to Russell, and that's coming from someone that's been more critical of him than most in here. We don't need to justify Lock's and Geno's mistakes by noting those occasions when Russell made a mistake. They are responsible for their own mistakes irrespective of those made by Russell or any other QB in the league.

[Aseahawkfan]

Yup, especially with the starting QB job up for grabs.

On a different topic, perhaps it was just an impression, but last night, our QB's seemed to have played a lot more over center vs. in the gun than we're used to seeing. I'm wondering if this wasn't by design, to give our rookie tackles more experience with playing with their hand in the dirt.

Is it is just me or do the offenses look different depending on which QB is on the field? I felt like the offense aligned slightly differently depending on which QB was in. They mentioned this in practice, but it seemed to be true in this game as well.

[RiverDog]

Nobody here was blaming others other than in your mind. It's rare for anyone to even mention something like a missed hot read anywhere in the NFL. No one likes telegraphing that intel and I doubt it will happen during the regular season. It was one of those preseason bits of information that would not be given out during the regular season because providing intel on some mistake or something that happened is not something NFL coaches like to do and they tell players to keep everything close to the vest. Telegraph no weaknesses or mistakes that any opponent can take advantage of is the mentality.

It was pretty obvious that it was a missed hot read. Although I didn't hear it myself, but apparently Raible and Wyman were talking about it on the radio immediately after the game and before the presser with Pete.

[RiverDog]

Yup, especially with the starting QB job up for grabs.

On a different topic, perhaps it was just an impression, but last night, our QB's seemed to have played a lot more over center vs. in the gun than we're used to seeing. I'm wondering if this wasn't by design, to give our rookie tackles more experience with playing with their hand in the dirt.

Is it is just me or do the offenses look different depending on which QB is on the field? I felt like the offense aligned slightly differently depending on which QB was in. They mentioned this in practice, but it seemed to be true in this game as well.

I couldn't say for sure, but it would make sense as Lock isn't as experienced in the offense as Geno is.

[c_hawkbob]

Lock was not at all to blame for that strip sack, it was a true 'blind side' hit, definite breakdown of the blocking scheme.

Both Pete and Lock himself said that it was the QB's fault:

"Pete Carroll was asked by @bcondotta if Drew Lock needed to see the unblocked rusher who caused the late sack fumble. Carroll said he needs clarification on what was called but thinks it was supposed to be a hot read. A few minutes later, Lock confirmed that the error was his.

https://money.yahoo.com/drew-lock-admits-crunchtime-sack-024801337.html

I can buy that. I fit was a missed hot read missed it could be his fault. No way to know that though unless you knew the reads. Next time maybe I'll wait through the post game presser news cycle ...

[Hawktawk]

As I said to TCS” I wasn’t going to bring it up but”. But it was direct response and relevant to the comments . Wyman was stunned Russ let that happen as I recall . But when I see a quote from the editor of DenverFan.com saying he’s underwhelming in camp it’s relevant when we play the dude in a month . He’s just in the way now , burned his bridge with HT.
I’m more like those watching the sue bird tribute then most in here but my impressions of where I believe Russ was professionally last year is pertinent to my expectations for this year with he and Bobby being the major subtractions. 3 years ago I’d have said we had to replace perhaps the best qb in the game . I don’t think that’s the case now and we may in fact be more consistent this year .

The crazy thing is it’s Russ and Denver here to kick off the season . It’s a game that will pit the greatest qb in our history against next guy which is likely Geno or Drew and against the coach who may know him better than he knows himself . I’m fascinated . It’s a night that will set the trajectory for both teams . You can’t win or lose more than a game in week 1 but this one is to win an argument too.

[Aseahawkfan]

I couldn't say for sure, but it would make sense as Lock isn't as experienced in the offense as Geno is.

I have heard that more of the playbook is open to Lock because he played under a similar offense to Waldron's in Denver and knows a lot of the playbook. Whereas the offense is simplified for Geno as the playbook is fairly complex and Geno doesn't have as much experience running this type of offense. I imagine we'll see more over the next few games.

[Aseahawkfan]

As I said to TCS” I wasn’t going to bring it up but”. But it was direct response and relevant to the comments . Wyman was stunned Russ let that happen as I recall . But when I see a quote from the editor of DenverFan.com saying he’s underwhelming in camp it’s relevant when we play the dude in a month . He’s just in the way now , burned his bridge with HT.
I’m more like those watching the sue bird tribute then most in here but my impressions of where I believe Russ was professionally last year is pertinent to my expectations for this year with he and Bobby being the major subtractions. 3 years ago I’d have said we had to replace perhaps the best qb in the game . I don’t think that’s the case now and we may in fact be more consistent this year .

The crazy thing is it’s Russ and Denver here to kick off the season . It’s a game that will pit the greatest qb in our history against next guy which is likely Geno or Drew and against the coach who may know him better than he knows himself . I’m fascinated . It’s a night that will set the trajectory for both teams . You can’t win or lose more than a game in week 1 but this one is to win an argument too.

It will make for an interesting game. But Denver losing as much as possible benefits us, so I want to see them lose as often as possible. Lose and lose and lose some more. I am not impressed by their roster other than their RBs and a few people on defense. I need them to lose a whole lot hopefully starting in Seattle where Pete has every reason to throw the kitchen sink at them to start them off with a loss and improve our draft position. Let's hope the team is up for the task.

[RiverDog]

I couldn't say for sure, but it would make sense as Lock isn't as experienced in the offense as Geno is.

I have heard that more of the playbook is open to Lock because he played under a similar offense to Waldron's in Denver and knows a lot of the playbook. Whereas the offense is simplified for Geno as the playbook is fairly complex and Geno doesn't have as much experience running this type of offense. I imagine we'll see more over the next few games.

Could be. To be honest, I didn't see that much of a difference, but I wasn't looking at the game in as much detail as you apparently were.

[RiverDog]

I'm hearing a lot of comments from others that claim Lock has looked significantly better than Geno during the preseason, in practices and the mock game. It will be interesting to see which QB gets the start with the #1 unit this Thursday vs. the Bears.

[Hawktawk]

Geno Smith has been with Seattle 3 seasons and the playbook is wide open for him . And were he looking far worse than Lock he wouldn’t have been 1 on the depth chart as Pete has never played favorites at the position . His last practice before the preseason game was described as “ dropping dimes all over the field” He conducted his second 2 minute drill in as many trips to Pittsburgh . It’s one of several things KJ Wright pointed to in endorsing Geno over any other potential starter , his ability in the 2 minute .

It will be interesting how Pete grades this game and the decision making process going forward . I’d think Lock starts next game and gets time with the ones this week . We would also learn more with our skill starters at receiver . I think pretty much everyone including me and Pete is pulling for a lock win but I think we are fine if he doesn’t get it done .

[Hawktawk]

I'm hearing a lot of comments from others that claim Lock has looked significantly better than Geno during the preseason, in practices and the mock game. It will be interesting to see which QB gets the start with the #1 unit this Thursday vs. the Bears.

Lock looked great starting the practice game going 12-12 to start . But he was not as sharp later and listening to Salk the other day one of his TDs was a tipped near pick circus catch . Actually as I was writing this Pete popped up on a news break . Says he thought Geno played great , should have been 10-11 to start except for drops and Fant stepping out of bounds . He also said Drew also did some good things out there . Didn’t catch it all but thought it was interesting he mentioned drops . Time will tell

[c_hawkbob]

Geno Smith has been with Seattle 3 seasons and the playbook is wide open for him

Perhaps this the reason Lock could be being described as outplaying Geno yet behind him on the depth chart. Pete may be incentivizing him to bone up on the playbook.

[RiverDog]

I'm hearing a lot of comments from others that claim Lock has looked significantly better than Geno during the preseason, in practices and the mock game. It will be interesting to see which QB gets the start with the #1 unit this Thursday vs. the Bears.

Lock looked great starting the practice game going 12-12 to start . But he was not as sharp later and listening to Salk the other day one of his TDs was a tipped near pick circus catch . Actually as I was writing this Pete popped up on a news break . Says he thought Geno played great , should have been 10-11 to start except for drops and Fant stepping out of bounds . He also said Drew also did some good things out there . Didn’t catch it all but thought it was interesting he mentioned drops . Time will tell

Keep in mind that Lock was the victim of at least one drop that I can think of, what would have been a TD pass to Colby Parkinson. The ball was in his body before the defender arrived to break it up and should have been caught. I thought that both QB's threw the ball reasonably well.

The competition may not have as much to do with the preseason and practice performance as we think. Lock has a huge advantage in terms of his age. At 31, Geno isn't going to be our QBOTF. The best we can hope for is that he's a bridge, much like Hasselback and TJack were in 2010 and 2011. I'm not holding my breath that Lock will be that QBOTF, either, but being 4 years younger than Geno, he stands a much better chance. It's for this reason that I'm hoping that they give Lock the nod, at least for the first few games of the season so we can see if we've got something.

[Hawktawk]

It’s why everyone prefers Lock to win ; his age . It’s why I’d like to see him win . But if he hasn’t clearly done it his age is meaningless . As for Geno he’s 30 . Not exactly ancient . He’s got nice wheels and a gun of an arm and he’s unafraid of throwing in tight windows . After Pete’s comments about Geno being victimized by drops I’m not sure he’s not still qb 1. Is it possible Pete feels it’s his best option ? You are correct about Parkinson’s drop . Both guys have big arms and throw a heavy ball but I know Geno had 3 right on guys hands that bounced out .

Tune in Thursday for the next episode of “ battle in Seattle “

[RiverDog]

It’s why everyone prefers Lock to win ; his age . It’s why I’d like to see him win . But if he hasn’t clearly done it his age is meaningless . As for Geno he’s 30 . Not exactly ancient . He’s got nice wheels and a gun of an arm and he’s unafraid of throwing in tight windows . After Pete’s comments about Geno being victimized by drops I’m not sure he’s not still qb 1. Is it possible Pete feels it’s his best option ? You are correct about Parkinson’s drop . Both guys have big arms and throw a heavy ball but I know Geno had 3 right on guys hands that bounced out .

Tune in Thursday for the next episode of “ battle in Seattle “

Geno was born on October 10th, 1990. He'll be 32 in two months.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geno_Smith

[Old but Slow]

I have a hunch that there is no QB competition. Pete has decided that Smith is the man, and he will begin the season starting. You don't need to tank, just don't give yourself the best chance.

[Aseahawkfan]

I have a hunch that there is no QB competition. Pete has decided that Smith is the man, and he will begin the season starting. You don't need to tank, just don't give yourself the best chance.

Hahaha.

I want Denver to go 0 and 17. Have we ever had a number 1 overall pick? I think the closest we came was number 2 overall when we picked Rick Mirer.

[RiverDog]

I want Denver to go 0 and 17. Have we ever had a number 1 overall pick? I think the closest we came was number 2 overall when we picked Rick Mirer.

You're correct, we've never had a #1 overall. In addition to the year you're thinking about, we had the #2 overall in 1976, our expansion year, and used it to draft Steve Niehaus, who was a complete bust.

[Hawktawk]

If we’re getting the first pick it will be from Denver . And I kind of agree with OBS. I’m not sure Pete doesn’t prefer Geno at this point . I don’t want to fight till Thursday about it but watching film I’m not sure if he’s right or wrong . This I know . Pete has no plan to tank . Geno can win 10. Lock ? Maybe 12- maybe 6 . Depends on how many hot reads he misses or vice verse . Encouraging both men were 10% higher completions than career averages. Geno did it last year so far Lock is this year . Tune in Thursday .

[c_hawkbob]

I want Denver to go 0 and 17. Have we ever had a number 1 overall pick? I think the closest we came was number 2 overall when we picked Rick Mirer.

You're correct, we've never had a #1 overall. In addition to the year you're thinking about, we had the #2 overall in 1976, our expansion year, and used it to draft Steve Niehaus, who was a complete bust.

Yes, we also had the #2 pick in 92 an selected Mirer after the Patriots took Bledsoe.

[NorthHawk]

There's no way we get the #1 pick via Denver.
I think we end up in the 4-8 range with our natural pick.
With 2 of them in the 1st, we could move up a couple of notches and maybe get one of the better QB prospects.

[RiverDog]

There's no way we get the #1 pick via Denver.
I think we end up in the 4-8 range with our natural pick.
With 2 of them in the 1st, we could move up a couple of notches and maybe get one of the better QB prospects.

Agreed about Denver. No way do they play that poorly. I'd settle for a sub .500 season and a pick in the lower teens from them.

The two top QB's in next year's class are CJ Stroud from Ohio State and Bryce Young from Alabama, the reigning Heisman Trophy winner. We'll need a pick in the top 3 to nab one of those two. I don't think you'll see QB's slide out of the first round next spring like they did in this past draft.

[Hawktawk]

There's no way we get the #1 pick via Denver.
I think we end up in the 4-8 range with our natural pick.
With 2 of them in the 1st, we could move up a couple of notches and maybe get one of the better QB prospects.

“Agreed about Denver. No way do they play that poorly. I'd settle for a sub .500 season and a pick in the lower teens from them.

The two top QB's in next year's class are CJ Stroud from Ohio State and Bryce Young from Alabama, the reigning Heisman Trophy winner. We'll need a pick in the top 3 to nab one of those two. I don't think you'll see QB's slide out of the first round next spring like they did in this past draft.[/quote]

I think a sub 500 outcome is most likely . As the TC in Denver has progressed the happy talk about being a super bowl contender has quieted . Fantasy is seeing Russ as second round , described as underwhelming . Hackett appears somewhat over his head . I can hope at least but my views on the mental part of Russels game are known and I won’t change unless he hangs a 50 burger here then I’ll reassess .

I think the 12th is huge for both teams but more for Denver . They have to win it don’t they? If they don’t I could see a collapse . Seattle is expected to lose and be bad and a win there would change that script immediately .

[NorthHawk]

I think Denver has a better than good chance to win it, but why do they have to? That division is going to be beating themselves up all year so every team is going to
have some losses at times.