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Kyler Murray, a solid starting quarterback but not on a lot of people's Top 10 lists, just signed the 2nd highest paid annual contract in NFL history:

Kyler Murray is one of the highest-paid players in league history after landing an extension that will keep him under contract with the Arizona Cardinals until 2028. Murray agreed to a reported five-year, $230.5 million deal that includes $160 million guaranteed -- making him one of the highest-paid players in football.

The deal will eventually set off a chain reaction of massive extensions coming with Lamar Jackson, Justin Herbert, and Joe Burrow over the next several months -- as the $46.1 average annual salary set the bar for what's to come at the NFL's most important -- and highest profile -- position.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/kyle ... l-history/

Murry's last game: On January 17, 2022, Murray made his NFL postseason debut in the Wild Card Round, losing to the Los Angeles Rams 34–11. Murray struggled throughout the game, throwing for just 137 yards, two interceptions and zero touchdowns as well as setting a career low in passer rating (40.9)

I understand that having a franchise QB greatly increases your chances of winning. But this deal seems awfully risky to me, reminds me a bit of Jerry Jones hitching his wagon to Tony Romo.

His deal isn’t as good as Watsons but like Watson, it’s still a lot of money for a QB who hasn’t accomplished much in his career.
Teams are betting that a massive Cap expansion is in the near future so in a couple of years it won’t have as big of a hit.
Murray now has to prove he’s worth the money. I’m not yet sure he is.

NorthHawk wrote:His deal isn’t as good as Watsons but like Watson, it’s still a lot of money for a QB who hasn’t accomplished much in his career.
Teams are betting that a massive Cap expansion is in the near future so in a couple of years it won’t have as big of a hit.
Murray now has to prove he’s worth the money. I’m not yet sure he is.

If Watson was an overpay this is AZ getting absolutely swindled. He’s shorter than Russ , he’s done very little to distinguish himself . He played worse as the season went on . And attitude wise he’s a 5’8” cam Newton pouting when things go wrong . Glad they signed him . Az will be in the dumpster soon .

Yep. Super crazy salaries now. But it's a QB driven league and passing is king.

NorthHawk wrote:His deal isn’t as good as Watsons but like Watson, it’s still a lot of money for a QB who hasn’t accomplished much in his career.
Teams are betting that a massive Cap expansion is in the near future so in a couple of years it won’t have as big of a hit.
Murray now has to prove he’s worth the money. I’m not yet sure he is.

Hawktawk wrote:If Watson was an overpay this is AZ getting absolutely swindled. He’s shorter than Russ , he’s done very little to distinguish himself . He played worse as the season went on . And attitude wise he’s a 5’8” cam Newton pouting when things go wrong . Glad they signed him . Az will be in the dumpster soon .

I agree with both of these thoughts.

Speaking of Watson, we should be hearing something about his suspension real soon. The arbitrator was going to try to come out with a decision before the opening of training camp, which is this Monday. Stay tuned.

Better them than us.

AZ was in a bind. Like a lot of teams who are trying to get to the big dance. Besides, he puts butts in seats, so more money.
What do they do, not re-sign him? He wouldn’t accept less than what he thinks is fair so they had to pay up.
We will be in that same position if we select a top QB that makes the Pro Bowl a couple of times before his contract is up.
Except if this trend continues it will be for a lot more.

NorthHawk wrote:AZ was in a bind. Like a lot of teams who are trying to get to the big dance. Besides, he puts butts in seats, so more money.
What do they do, not re-sign him? He wouldn’t accept less than what he thinks is fair so they had to pay up.
We will be in that same position if we select a top QB that makes the Pro Bowl a couple of times before his contract is up.
Except if this trend continues it will be for a lot more.

It’s one reason I’m pulling for Pete and John to make it work with a competent journeymen instead of some guy eating all the cap room . Whether they have a competent journeyman on the roster is the question .

There’s an interesting clause in Murray’s new contract that stipulates he must spend 4 hours studying for the next game or possibly
lose some of his salary guarantees. They were talking about it on NFL Live and it was pointed out that the best QBs don’t need any
type of contractual clause as they are self motivated.

There was no issue with Wilson and certainly no issue like this with any of the best QBs
in the NFL, so Murray may never be as good as he can be because he doesn’t want to put the effort in and it might be
the difference between winning a SB or not.

NorthHawk wrote:There’s an interesting clause in Murray’s new contract that stipulates he must spend 4 hours studying for the next game or possibly
lose some of his salary guarantees. They were talking about it on NFL Live and it was pointed out that the best QBs don’t need any
type of contractual clause as they are self motivated.

There was no issue with Wilson and certainly no issue like this with any of the best QBs
in the NFL, so Murray may never be as good as he can be because he doesn’t want to put the effort in and it might be
the difference between winning a SB or not.

That is a strange clause for the QB and team leader.

I was watching an interview with Greg Olsen and he said Russell sat down with him for 90 minutes going over the playbook and running him through plays like they were in the huddle during the offseason after he signed with Seattle. Olsen said Russell was all about consistent preparation all the time. He never changed his preparation and was always working to prepare whether it was during the season or offseason.

Yup. Russell is known for his off field work and preparation.

One of the comments on NFL Live was Ryan Clark saying Jr Seau once stood up in front of the team and said “ There are two types of
players in the NFL. Those who want to win and those who have to win. Figure out which one you are”.
It sounds to me like Murray is in the want to win camp which doesn’t bode well for leading the team into the future. It almost suggests
Murray isn’t all in.

I saw this on another board:

If Kyler plays Madden as himself against the next opponent for 4 hours, does that count??

Watched some talking heads today discussing who the next 'big' contract to break the bank, and it looks like Russell took the #1, with a prediction of 60-65m, 150m guarantee for 3 years... I'm looking forward to our rookie next year in the draft in the first round and getting back to that rookie contract advantage.

jshawaii22 wrote:Watched some talking heads today discussing who the next 'big' contract to break the bank, and it looks like Russell took the #1, with a prediction of 60-65m, 150m guarantee for 3 years... I'm looking forward to our rookie next year in the draft in the first round and getting back to that rookie contract advantage.

I have to admit the more I analyze this trade, the more I like it. We really did get a king's ransom for Russell and a chance to build up a team to compete, then insert a QB. If Pete pulls this off, it may well become the new model for the NFL.

We got a great number of picks. Denver traded us some of their best players. Shelby Harris led the team in sacks. Noah Fant had almost as many yards as their best WR with multiple different QBs throwing to him.

Denver's team really isn't that stacked with talent. They lost Von Miller. Their best pass rusher Harris they traded to us. Their top receiving TE they traded to us. Their O-line isn't that highly rated. They do have some pretty good platoon RBs though. Each one put up 900 yards and 200 plus yards receiving each. They have a completely new coach. Vic Fangio is gone who made their defense as strong as it was. Hackett is a real wild card. If he turns out to suck as a coach, Broncos could dump really hard in that division.

Seems Schneider and Pete made a pretty damn good risk-reward call and picked up some great developed talent and draft picks.

Aseahawkfan wrote:
I have to admit the more I analyze this trade, the more I like it. We really did get a king's ransom for Russell and a chance to build up a team to compete, then insert a QB. If Pete pulls this off, it may well become the new model for the NFL.

We got a great number of picks. Denver traded us some of their best players. Shelby Harris led the team in sacks. Noah Fant had almost as many yards as their best WR with multiple different QBs throwing to him.

Denver's team really isn't that stacked with talent. They lost Von Miller. Their best pass rusher Harris they traded to us. Their top receiving TE they traded to us. Their O-line isn't that highly rated. They do have some pretty good platoon RBs though. Each one put up 900 yards and 200 plus yards receiving each. They have a completely new coach. Vic Fangio is gone who made their defense as strong as it was. Hackett is a real wild card. If he turns out to suck as a coach, Broncos could dump really hard in that division.

Seems Schneider and Pete made a pretty damn good risk-reward call and picked up some great developed talent and draft picks.

That’s what I’m talking about ! Besides if you look at the Jack Denver’s going to be asked to pony up to pay for their qb it better work out or else .

Watson broke the bank on salaries, its going to be hard once a QB gets a 2nd contact, to keep a good team around him. The #1 reason TB is the GOAT, if in fact he is, is his willingness to take pay-cuts. Lamar Jackson's contract will be interesting. The new smart model for the Salary cap era, is to get a really good QB in the draft, he is good in his 2nd or 3rd year, ride the wave of success, then drop him after 5 and repeat. I believe Russ was right, but you cannot cry too loud unless you want to go the Tommy terrific mode.

obiken wrote:Watson broke the bank on salaries, its going to be hard once a QB gets a 2nd contact, to keep a good team around him. The #1 reason TB is the GOAT, if in fact he is, is his willingness to take pay-cuts. Lamar Jackson's contract will be interesting. The new smart model for the Salary cap era, is to get a really good QB in the draft, he is good in his 2nd or 3rd year, ride the wave of success, then drop him after 5 and repeat. I believe Russ was right, but you cannot cry too loud unless you want to go the Tommy terrific mode.

When the new media contracts are finalized, the new Cap will mitigate the hit of the big contracts. It's expected to be a $30 - $50 Million increase in just a few years. I think that's what teams are counting on with these big contracts.

NorthHawk wrote:When the new media contracts are finalized, the new Cap will mitigate the hit of the big contracts. It's expected to be a $30 - $50 Million increase in just a few years. I think that's what teams are counting on with these big contracts.

The salaries even for marginal QBs like Kyler Murray are too high. It's getting nuts even with the increase.

Aseahawkfan wrote:I have to admit the more I analyze this trade, the more I like it. We really did get a king's ransom for Russell and a chance to build up a team to compete, then insert a QB. If Pete pulls this off, it may well become the new model for the NFL.

We got a great number of picks. Denver traded us some of their best players. Shelby Harris led the team in sacks. Noah Fant had almost as many yards as their best WR with multiple different QBs throwing to him.

Denver's team really isn't that stacked with talent. They lost Von Miller. Their best pass rusher Harris they traded to us. Their top receiving TE they traded to us. Their O-line isn't that highly rated. They do have some pretty good platoon RBs though. Each one put up 900 yards and 200 plus yards receiving each. They have a completely new coach. Vic Fangio is gone who made their defense as strong as it was. Hackett is a real wild card. If he turns out to suck as a coach, Broncos could dump really hard in that division.

Seems Schneider and Pete made a pretty damn good risk-reward call and picked up some great developed talent and draft picks.

I agree. This trade has the potential to equal or exceed the Hershel Walker trade. But it all depends on how we play our cards. One thing's for sure: There will be no more excuse making if Pete can't turn this team around with the amount of capital he got out of this trade.

It's all about potential at this point.
However, this regime hasn't shown a great talent selecting players in the first round.
These should be higher picks than when we were missing in the late 1st, but still, the stink of missing badly on 1sts lingers.
They have to hit on all of them this and next year for the trade to even out. And if they don't find a Franchise QB, it will never be equal.

NorthHawk wrote:It's all about potential at this point.
However, this regime hasn't shown a great talent selecting players in the first round.
These should be higher picks than when we were missing in the late 1st, but still, the stink of missing badly on 1sts lingers.
They have to hit on all of them this and next year for the trade to even out. And if they don't find a Franchise QB, it will never be equal.

They get too focused on SPARQ in the first round.

Sometimes you need to take the slightly lesser athlete who can play football well.

They get too focused on SPARQ in the first round.

Sometimes you need to take the slightly lesser athlete who can play football well.

That seems to be the case. Let’s hope they’ve “reset” their parameters.

NorthHawk wrote:It's all about potential at this point.
However, this regime hasn't shown a great talent selecting players in the first round.
These should be higher picks than when we were missing in the late 1st, but still, the stink of missing badly on 1sts lingers.
They have to hit on all of them this and next year for the trade to even out. And if they don't find a Franchise QB, it will never be equal.

They need to hit on all 5 draft picks for the trade to even out? So if we end up with 4 Pro Bowlers and one bust does that mean that the Broncos won the trade regardless of how Fant, Lock, and Harris perform? Come on, man!

It was a hugely complicated trade, and it will take several years to figure out who won and who lost. We have 3 potential starters, and their performance will factor into the equation along with the draft choices (officially this season it's Charles Cross and Boye Mafe) and the three picks we get next season, and that's just one side of it. The other side is how Denver performs with Russell Wilson as their QB. If they sign him to a $65M, 5 year contract and they never make it out of the first round of the playoffs, then it won't take very much out of our side of the equation to balance that out.

RiverDog wrote:They need to hit on all 5 draft picks for the trade to even out? So if we end up with 4 Pro Bowlers and one bust does that mean that the Broncos won the trade regardless of how Fant, Lock, and Harris perform? Come on, man!

It was a hugely complicated trade, and it will take several years to figure out who won and who lost. We have 3 potential starters, and their performance will factor into the equation along with the draft choices (officially this season it's Charles Cross and Boye Mafe) and the three picks we get next season, and that's just one side of it. The other side is how Denver performs with Russell Wilson as their QB. If they sign him to a $65M, 5 year contract and they never make it out of the first round of the playoffs, then it won't take very much out of our side of the equation to balance that out.

Denver put all their eggs in one basket on one great player.

Seattle has some eggs that can break and still come out well.

I'm as big a Russ fan as anyone. But even I would not be excited to pay him 60 mil a year. Players are becoming way too expensive and football is too much of a team sport for these insane salary discrepancies.

RiverDog wrote:They need to hit on all 5 draft picks for the trade to even out? So if we end up with 4 Pro Bowlers and one bust does that mean that the Broncos won the trade regardless of how Fant, Lock, and Harris perform? Come on, man!

It was a hugely complicated trade, and it will take several years to figure out who won and who lost. We have 3 potential starters, and their performance will factor into the equation along with the draft choices (officially this season it's Charles Cross and Boye Mafe) and the three picks we get next season, and that's just one side of it. The other side is how Denver performs with Russell Wilson as their QB. If they sign him to a $65M, 5 year contract and they never make it out of the first round of the playoffs, then it won't take very much out of our side of the equation to balance that out.

Aseahawkfan wrote:Denver put all their eggs in one basket on one great player.

Seattle has some eggs that can break and still come out well.

I'm as big a Russ fan as anyone. But even I would not be excited to pay him 60 mil a year. Players are becoming way too expensive and football is too much of a team sport for these insane salary discrepancies.

It's a bigger gamble on Denver's part than it was ours, that's for sure.

The other thing to consider is that Russell had just one year left on his current deal, and if he wasn't going to sign an extension with us and given that we weren't firing Pete, then it was extremely wise to trade him now as the only other option would have been an extremely expensive franchise tag for a player that doesn't want to play for the head coach. This team wasn't going anywhere this season, with or without Russell, so turning down an offer like that for what would be at best a wild card playoff berth would have been absurd.

Russ might never make the playoffs . Rodgers better get the deal done before they start playing the games . 65 million a year for him at this stage of his career is as bad a deal as Murray and Watson . Dude is on the back 9.

RiverDog wrote:It's a bigger gamble on Denver's part than it was ours, that's for sure.

The other thing to consider is that Russell had just one year left on his current deal, and if he wasn't going to sign an extension with us and given that we weren't firing Pete, then it was extremely wise to trade him now as the only other option would have been an extremely expensive franchise tag for a player that doesn't want to play for the head coach. This team wasn't going anywhere this season, with or without Russell, so turning down an offer like that for what would be at best a wild card playoff berth would have been absurd.

Russell is signed until 2023, so this year and next year. Next year is when we would have thought about extending him. Then you have franchise tags which are good for I believe two years. So we could have controlled him for 4 years. It doesn't really matter if he tells us he wouldn't sign an extension. I don't even know why people bring up what the player says when we've seen players make all kinds of statements about not signing, not being happy, holding out, and the like, then end up signing or tagged and kept by the team if they want to keep the player. Aaron Rodgers and Kyler Murray both raised a much bigger stink than Russ and re-signed with their team. Aaron Donald threatened to retire and signed a team extension. Public statements by players or coaches or GMs aren't particularly relevant and more concerned with PR than negotiation.

It's more a matter if the team feels the long-term investment is worth the money and the effort to keep the player. They have control of the player. I do agree it was smart to trade Russ before his final year which increases his value. That gives a team a few years to try to negotiate an extension and see if the player fits. If Russ had been in the final year of his contract, then it lessens his value because the team you're trading him to is under pressure to not only make the trade but negotiate the extension immediately or they just traded for a one year ride. A team won't pay as much for a one year ride. But now Denver has Russ for 2022 and 2023 with plenty of time to negotiate the extension. It's similar to investing where the time value of an investment affects the risk of the investment.

I personally never pay much attention what players, coaches, or GMs say. NFL has a few types of coaches, but they all say the same thing. There is the say very little to almost nothing coach like Bill B. Say a little bit but not really say anything coaches like Holmgren. There is the say a whole lot but not really say anything coaches like Pete Carroll. At the end of it all, they all really don't say much worth hearing.

GMs are even worse. They say very little until they have to. It usually is all the same. They keep it all close to the vest what they're really doing or thinking. You'll never know what happened behind the scenes and no one plans to explain it fully, so just go by what they do and what you know about how the NFL business operates to figure out the plan. Then judge the trade or move after the fact to see if it turned out well.

At least that is how I do it. I stopped listening to Pete or John Schneider or reporters or what not years ago. I don't like puff talk. It became apparent years ago that NFL reporting or post-game conferences is a bunch of empty, meaningless reporting other than injury news. I like to see the measurable facts and the results after the fact. That is all that matters to me.

Come on man, Russell checked out sometime during the Covid years and didn't want to play for us (Pete?) anymore so nothing else matters from that point on. You can't have a Pro-Bowl level QB totally unhappy and think he's going to be happy and play out his contract + 2 more years. Forget it! We did exactly what we needed to do to start the non-rebuild.
Now, if they were smart JS/Pete would bite the bullet and trade DK as his 'value' has gone to his head and he's not worth 100 million over 4 years (my guess on what he's asking for) with the young QB's we'll have, the offense really won't be in gear for the next two (if we'll lucky) and probably three years.

I think DJ is worth at least a good #1 and another pick. What a great deal for us to have 3 #'1 next year. If you're going to non-tank, do it right and get set up to draft top young talent we'll need. Exactly what the Rams did, by the way.

jshawaii22 wrote:Come on man, Russell checked out sometime during the Covid years and didn't want to play for us (Pete?) anymore so nothing else matters at that point. You can't have a Pro-Bowl level QB totally unhappy and think he's going to stay out his contract + 2 more years. Forget it! We did exactly what we needed to do to start the non-rebuild.
Now, if they were smart JS/Pete would bite the bullet and trade DK as his 'value' has gone to his head and he's not worth 100 million over 4 years with the young QB's we'll have to wait on a little for probably the next two (if we'll lucky) and probably three years.

I think he is worth at least a good #1 and another pick. What a great deal for us. If you're going to non-tank, do it right and get set up to draft top talent we'll need. Exactly what the Rams did, by the way.

I don't know that Russell checked out and would not try to guess. I don't consider that type of information as I can't prove it one way or the other. No one else can either.

What I do know is at some point Russ and the team decided to part ways. And that the team got a very good deal for the trade to start a rebuild. And that's all that really matters going forward.

They might trade DK and that is why he's sitting out of practice to avoid injury. Or they might be finalizing his contract. I guess we'll see shortly.

Russell asked to be traded last year and gave us a list of 4 teams. When no deal was reached he played last year as he had no choice and sure didn't look like the 'old' Russell to me. He also kind of screwed the team by inserting himself back into the game after his hand injury before he was ready to go. The frustration was obvious to me just watching it on TV as the season went on.

This year he expanded his list, and probably went out and negotiated his own trade. There is no way he was coming back. The deal with Denver was pretty good. Now it is really up to the new players and draft over this and next year to make a difference.

jshawaii22 wrote:Russell asked to be traded last year and gave us a list of 4 teams. When no deal was reached he played last year as he had no choice and sure didn't look like the 'old' Russell to me. He also kind of screwed the team by inserting himself back into the game after his hand injury before he was ready to go. The frustration was obvious to me just watching it on TV as the season went on.

This year he expanded his list, and probably went out and negotiated his own trade. There is no way he was coming back. The deal with Denver was pretty good. Now it is really up to the new players and draft over this and next year to make a difference.

Russell did all of that. And Aaron Rodgers asked to be traded and rumor was he wasn't going to play for the Packers again. And Kyler Murray removed all his Arizona symbols from his account. And Kam Chancellor held out. And right now Baker Mayfield is sitting on the bench in Cleveland wanting out of there. And Barry Sanders wanted out of Detroit so bad he decided to retire than to come back.

My point is the team has control. If the team considers you part of their long-term plans, they make the effort to keep you and make you happy. If they decide you aren't part of their long-term plans for whatever reason, they trade you when they feel it is best for the team. And the only option a player has when a team has control and refuses to trade or release you is to retire.

That's how the NFL works and as far as I know how it has always worked this way to an even worse degree before free agency. Only idiots like Tim Ruskell use transition tags and lose pro bowl guards to another team because they think they can negotiate a deal better than another team and get played for a fool with a poison pill by an opposing GM.

Smart teams know how to control a player they intend to keep.

I'm not blaming anyone. It's just how it works. The team decided Russell wasn't worth the trouble to keep and traded him for a great haul of draft capital. Had the team wanted to, they could have kept him even if he was unhappy. But they made the move to trade him and got great value.

What they say in public is not as important as what they do from what I've seen. That is why I don't bother listening much to it save to go, "Someone's unhappy. Let's see what happens."

jshawaii22 wrote:Russell asked to be traded last year and gave us a list of 4 teams. When no deal was reached he played last year as he had no choice and sure didn't look like the 'old' Russell to me. He also kind of screwed the team by inserting himself back into the game after his hand injury before he was ready to go. The frustration was obvious to me just watching it on TV as the season went on.

This year he expanded his list, and probably went out and negotiated his own trade. There is no way he was coming back. The deal with Denver was pretty good. Now it is really up to the new players and draft over this and next year to make a difference.

All this ^ I couldn’t have said it better .