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Now that everybody's had a couple of days to sober up from that truly great draft, here's a reminder of how inept we've been in the recent past, how we've reached for picks and failed more times than not.

Two weeks after the Seattle Seahawks picked up the fifth-year option for new TE Noah Fant, they are turning down that of another player.

L.J. Collier will not reap the final benefits of his first round draft pick, per Jeremy Fowler at ESPN.

The Seahawks are declining the fifth-year option for defensive end L.J. Collier, per source. This was widely expected after Collier fell on the depth chart last year. The option would have been worth $11.5 million. Collier currently training for a bounce-back season with Seattle.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/se ... NewsSearch

Ironic how we picked up the 5th year option on a player that someone else drafted, but not on our own draftee. Honest question: Have we ever had a first round draft pick that played well enough for us in their first 3 seasons for us to pick up their 5th year option? And no, Hawktalk, Penny doesn't count. We declined his option, too.

He has generational talent . I know they didn’t pick up his option which I can’t blame them for as he hadn’t even gotten healthy from injury . Collier was a miss . Everyone has them as the level headed fans understand . Ever heard of Tony Mandarich? How about Todd Marijuanavich? Josh Rosin anyone ? I think we spent a first or second rounder on a back that never played a down in the early 80s . Big deal what they did with Collier.

Yeah. Earl Thomas. Earl was amazing before he lost he mind. Earl really was generational talent with insane speed with instincts and good hands for making interceptions. Earl is what generational talent really looks like. We may have signed him to an extension before his contract ran out because that is what usually happens with generational talent. They are so good that you already know you want to extend them before the end of their first contract. Just like guys that aren't generational talent, you don't bother to extend them or pick up their options. Usually the guys that don't get their options picked up are busts.

Earl is probably the only first round pick who played well enough to pick up his 5th year option if we had a contract like that, but from my hazy memory I think we extended him well before it was even a discussion. Earl was not a guy we were going to let walk. He was the type of player you see once a decade or more. We likely won't see another Earl in Seattle for quite a while. Yet another amazing Pete Carroll drafted player who left Seattle on bad terms for reasons we'll never really understand.

We've done far better in the 2nd round. 2nd round and later has been where Pete and John have hit far more often.

Aseahawkfan wrote:Yeah. Earl Thomas. Earl was amazing before his lost his mind. Earl really was generational talent with insane speed with instincts and good hands for making interceptions. Earl is what generational talent really looks like.

Neither Earl Thomas or Russell Okung were eligible for a 5th year option. Our first draft pick that was eligible for it was James Carpenter (2011), of whom we declined to pick up. We also declined Bruce Irvin (2012), Germain Ifedi (2016), Rashaad Penny (2018), and now LJ Collier (2019). We did not have first round selections in 2014, 2015, 2017, and 2021. The next player that will be eligible for a 5th year option will be Jordyn Brooks (2020) in 2023.

To date, we have not picked up the 5th year option on any of our first round draft picks since the rule was implemented. 0-5, not a very good batting average.

Aseahawkfan wrote:We've done far better in the 2nd round. 2nd round and later has been where Pete and John have hit far more often.

Being that since 2011, they haven't hit at all in the first round (with the possible exception of Penny and Brooks, of which the jury is still out), they can't help but to hit far more often in later rounds. We've also had far more 2nd and 3rd round picks. We had six 2nd and 3rd round picks in 2017 alone.

RiverDog wrote:Neither Earl Thomas or Russell Okung were eligible for a 5th year option. Our first draft pick that was eligible for it was James Carpenter (2011), of whom we declined to pick up. We also declined Bruce Irvin (2012), Germain Ifedi (2016), Rashaad Penny (2018), and now LJ Collier (2019). We did not have first round selections in 2014, 2015, 2017, and 2021. The next player that will be eligible for a 5th year option will be Jordyn Brooks (2020) in 2023.

To date, we have not picked up the 5th year option on any of our first round draft picks since the rule was implemented. 0-5, not a very good batting average.

Not eligible eh. I thought you were querying who was worth it. Earl was the only one worth it. Okung was kind of on the fence. He played well when healthy, but staying healthy was real difficult for him.

Earl was clearly amazing talent and would have been worth a fifth year option.

We've traded away so many picks, how many first round picks have we had in Seattle?

9 first round picks (two acquired from Denver) in 13 years of drafting for Pete and John. We've traded away our first round pick five times under Pete and John.

Aseahawkfan wrote:Not eligible eh. I thought you were querying who was worth it. Earl was the only one worth it. Okung was kind of on the fence. He played well when healthy, but staying healthy was real difficult for him.

Earl was clearly amazing talent and would have been worth a fifth year option.

We've traded away so many picks, how many first round picks have we had in Seattle?

9 first round picks (two acquired from Denver) in 13 years of drafting for Pete and John. We've traded away our first round pick five times under Pete and John.

We've had 9 first round picks in Pete's 13 drafts, and that includes 2 top 15 picks in the first year courtesy of Tim Ruskell. Over the past 10 drafts, we've had just 5 first round picks, and would have been 4 had it not been for the Russell trade.

Had the 5th year option existed, it's a near certainty that we would have picked up both Thomas and Okung's 5th year. Okung made the Pro Bowl in 2012, and we would have had to have made the call on the 5th year option at the start of the 2013 season.

But the premise of the OP is more of the "what have you done for me lately" theme as opposed to reveling in the glory years from over a decade earlier.

Several of the guys mentioned played elsewhere . Carpenter wasn’t bad . I really didn’t get him let go. Malik was an NFL starter last year after smashing his skull . I guess that’s our fault ..Penney was clearly a steal late in the first round as his production before and after the injury of over 6 ypc average when given 10 or more Carrie’s proves . I fault Pete for failing to realize who he had drafted and not exchanging roles with Carson who clearly lacks the house call ability of Penney . If he had figured it out in 2018 were advancing past the cowboys at least . Carson was given 14 carries for 20 yards . 1.5 average . Penney had 27 on 4 carries including a 20 yarder for a 7 ypc average . That included a 7 yard loss on a jailbreak run blitz on a pitch play . And never say Penney again . That’s on Pete . Every time Penney gets the touches he produced . It’s ridiculous to say he was not first round talent . The Seahawks won more games than anyone but NE last ten years and missed the playoffs twice . Someone must be pretty good . Oh I forgot it was all Russ

RiverDog wrote:We've had 9 first round picks in Pete's 13 drafts, and that includes 2 top 15 picks in the first year courtesy of Tim Ruskell. Over the past 10 drafts, we've had just 5 first round picks, and would have been 4 had it not been for the Russell trade.

Had the 5th year option existed, it's a near certainty that we would have picked up both Thomas and Okung's 5th year. Okung made the Pro Bowl in 2012, and we would have had to have made the call on the 5th year option at the start of the 2013 season.

But the premise of the OP is more of the "what have you done for me lately" theme as opposed to reveling in the glory years from over a decade earlier.

My position is already well known.

I still think Pete is one of the best coaches in the NFL as far as base scheme, making adjustments, and developing talent. I think at some point he got Shiny Toy disease where he decided to trade for players on other teams that didn't work out so great in Seattle. This is not great for modern NFL roster building and maintenance where you need cheap, drafted players on first contracts to maintain a roster and I think paying big for players on other teams is not great for locker room morale as some guy from another team getting paid when a drafted player has been laying it all on the line creates dissension IMO. It hasn't been great for the team.

If Pete can get back to Always Compete and building the roster from the draft, maybe he can put it all back together again as unlikely as that is. At least it is a step in the right direction.

Hawktawk wrote:Several of the guys mentioned played elsewhere . Carpenter wasn’t bad . I really didn’t get him let go. Malik was an NFL starter last year after smashing his skull . I guess that’s our fault ..Penney was clearly a steal late in the first round as his production before and after the injury of over 6 ypc average when given 10 or more Carrie’s proves . I fault Pete for failing to realize who he had drafted and not exchanging roles with Carson who clearly lacks the house call ability of Penney . If he had figured it out in 2018 were advancing past the cowboys at least . Carson was given 14 carries for 20 yards . 1.5 average . Penney had 27 on 4 carries including a 20 yarder for a 7 ypc average . That included a 7 yard loss on a jailbreak run blitz on a pitch play . And never say Penney again . That’s on Pete . Every time Penney gets the touches he produced . It’s ridiculous to say he was not first round talent . The Seahawks won more games than anyone but NE last ten years and missed the playoffs twice . Someone must be pretty good . Oh I forgot it was all Russ

Penny will get his chance to prove he can turn that six games and a second chance into something special.

You like giving out unearned trophies for some reason. In the NFL, only those who earn it get the money and accolades.

Russ has earned everything he has with 10 years and still going of amazing play.

In your mind, Penny's six games are worth more than Russ's ten years. Why that is, I don't know.

RiverDog wrote:Now that everybody's had a couple of days to sober up from that truly great draft, here's a reminder of how inept we've been in the recent past, how we've reached for picks and failed more times than not.

Two weeks after the Seattle Seahawks picked up the fifth-year option for new TE Noah Fant, they are turning down that of another player.

L.J. Collier will not reap the final benefits of his first round draft pick, per Jeremy Fowler at ESPN.

The Seahawks are declining the fifth-year option for defensive end L.J. Collier, per source. This was widely expected after Collier fell on the depth chart last year. The option would have been worth $11.5 million. Collier currently training for a bounce-back season with Seattle.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/se ... NewsSearch

Ironic how we picked up the 5th year option on a player that someone else drafted, but not on our own draftee. Honest question: Have we ever had a first round draft pick that played well enough for us in their first 3 seasons for us to pick up their 5th year option? And no, Hawktalk, Penny doesn't count. We declined his option, too.

We pretty much had to pick up Fant’s 5th year option. They clearly wanted him, so getting him for an extra year was a
no brainer. As well, if they let him go it would be viewed as another miss in a trade after the Adams fiasco.

Aseahawkfan wrote:
Several of the guys mentioned played elsewhere . Carpenter wasn’t bad . I really didn’t get him let go. Malik was an NFL starter last year after smashing his skull . I guess that’s our fault ..Penney was clearly a steal late in the first round as his production before and after the injury of over 6 ypc average when given 10 or more Carrie’s proves . I fault Pete for failing to realize who he had drafted and not exchanging roles with Carson who clearly lacks the house call ability of Penney . If he had figured it out in 2018 were advancing past the cowboys at least . Carson was given 14 carries for 20 yards . 1.5 average . Penney had 27 on 4 carries including a 20 yarder for a 7 ypc average . That included a 7 yard loss on a jailbreak run blitz on a pitch play . And never say Penney again . That’s on Pete . Every time Penney gets the touches he produced . It’s ridiculous to say he was not first round talent . The Seahawks won more games than anyone but NE last ten years and missed the playoffs twice . Someone must be pretty good . Oh I forgot it was all Russ

Penny will get his chance to prove he can turn that six games and a second chance into something special.

You like giving out unearned trophies for some reason. In the NFL, only those who earn it get the money and accolades.

Russ has earned everything he has with 10 years and still going of amazing play.

In your mind, Penny's six games are worth more than Russ's ten years. Why that is, I don't know.[/quote]can you show me where I value Penney more than Russ ? You can’t.all I’ve said is Penney’s performance was all pro to MVP if he did it for 17 games . Well over 2k yards if he did it . Wtf I can see . Not blind . I watch film .

Aseahawkfan wrote:I think at some point he got Shiny Toy disease where he decided to trade for players on other teams that didn't work out so great in Seattle.

I'm not sure if that's how I'd characterize it, but there was definitely a change where he and Schneider got this feeling that draft positioning was over rated, that their system was so superior that they could find players not highly rated by the pundits and other teams in the lower rounds, UFDA's, cuts from other team's rosters, and could mold them into parts that fit their puzzle. They thought that they could make the player fit the system. That would explain their riverboat gambler attitude making such ill advised trades for players that didn't fit their system, players like Graham and Adams, then search for a role for them when they discovered that they couldn't mold them after all, and their propensity to trade down and accumulate more lower picks.

They also lost respect for the role of offensive linemen. That, too, seems to have changed.

Aseahawkfan wrote:If Pete can get back to Always Compete and building the roster from the draft, maybe he can put it all back together again as unlikely as that is. At least it is a step in the right direction.

Agreed. I'm still not back on the Pete bandwagon, but the way they managed this draft is a good first step. We'll see what the finished product looks like on the field.

I think they finally realized that they needed to pave the road, not just fill potholes as they appeared.
It took them 6 or 7 years but they finally got there.
I just hope they don't think now they can go back to what they've been doing prior to this draft when next year rolls around.

They blew it on Collier obviously . Christine Micheal too who was a big fast strong guy with zero moves and the vision of Stevie wonder . He had one significant game , the polar bowl in Minnesota and that was well under 4 ypc but better than AP . Legion of boom won that barely or should I say Blair Witch lost it . Linemen are alway hard to get absolutely right . And injuries injuries injuries .

All I’ve ever said of Penney are facts . Fact . He was well worth picking on draft day . He had zero injury history . He rushed for 138 on 14 carries picking up scraps spelling Carson. 9.2 ypc average . In 2019. Those are not reach numbers .

He averaged 5.9 on limited touches a couple games later and was hurt . So in 6 career starts and a few backup touches he has 6 100 plus yard games . 2 were over 130, 1 was 170 and one was 190 . He set 2 NFL records . Not reach numbers . Tell me again he wasn’t a first rounder . And he drew interest from other teams .
2010 thru 12 were some of the best in history . Everyone looking for the next beast or Russ or ET or Sherm there just aren’t guys like that in every draft . This one looks good on paper but paper don’t play a down . I feel good about next season . I think PC has more to work with than most of you think.

NorthHawk wrote:I think they finally realized that they needed to pave the road, not just fill potholes as they appeared. It took them 6 or 7 years but they finally got there. I just hope they don't think now they can go back to what they've been doing prior to this draft when next year rolls around.

IMO it took a losing season, a frustrated fan base, a disgruntled franchise quarterback wanting out, and rumors about his job being in jeopardy for Pete to wake up and smell the roses. He'd run out of OC's and DC's to throw into the volcano and was forced to look himself in the mirror and admit that the past 7 years had been a failure to launch. He was getting too arrogant, too big for his britches, and needed to be taken down a peg or two. Or at least that's my explanation for the most reasonable, conservative drafts in the past 10 years.

So we'll see. It's going to be an interesting season.

hmm.
Possibly true.

I watched the 3rd day press conference the other day and it looked to me like Pete has
given up some control. His attitude was more of playing a supportive role than that of
someone calling the shots. JS answered most of the questions and did most of describing
of strategy and players. Pete added his comments but he didn’t go into great depth.

NorthHawk wrote:hmm.
Possibly true.

I watched the 3rd day press conference the other day and it looked to me like Pete has
given up some control. His attitude was more of playing a supportive role than that of
someone calling the shots. JS answered most of the questions and did most of describing
of strategy and players. Pete added his comments but he didn’t go into great depth.

Yes this right here ^^^. Been saying it several months myself . Something changed in the off-season after the meeting with Jodi. There was no bold pronouncement like when Holmgren was stripped of The GM title but John Schneider is calling the shots .

NorthHawk wrote:hmm.
Possibly true.

I watched the 3rd day press conference the other day and it looked to me like Pete has
given up some control. His attitude was more of playing a supportive role than that of
someone calling the shots. JS answered most of the questions and did most of describing
of strategy and players. Pete added his comments but he didn’t go into great depth.

It kind of feels like Pete is setting up his succession letting John take more of the lead draft day and pushing this guy Clint as the DC and possibly next HC.

I imagine even he is feeling his age at this point some. He may want to make sure Seattle has a good succession plan in place.

Even if he doesn't get back to the big game again, Pete will always be my favorite Seattle HC who turned us into a defensive monster of legendary status for that beautiful five year period.