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Last place schedule . Only 3 of our non division opponents made the playoffs . Last year was 7.
Diggs , Penney , Phil Haynes the road grader . If Rashaad Penney is healthy he’s going for 1700 yards and 20 TDs minimum running behind haynes . Clint hurrt getting ahold of our reckless overpaid safety Adams and the defense in general. Adams maybe have been a bad deal but he’s a really good player we have . The indication from the FA they intend to extend DK who elevates any QB. Obviously the QB position is the biggest question mark . I’ve watched some Drew Locke hilights . He’s got an absolute gun . He’s mobile . They only show the highlights but he usually drops back and plants his foot and whap to the first read . He’s thrown a lot of picks though but very huge arm and mobile . also 6’4”. But the Geno talk tells me at least PC isn’t completely on board . My views on Geno are known . He wouldn’t be spectacular for the most part but I could see him winning 10-11 games if he played like last year . Mayfield is still out there and he had that one nice season in 2020 26 TD 8 picks close loss in the divisional . So let’s see. Imo Russ had become a 5000 pound gorilla on the organization for all the greatness he brought to Seattle . I think there’re lots of people in that locker room tired of hearing they are the reason for the team losing . That it’s the organization . I just have an inkling PC and JS have one more joker up their sleeve . 10-7 wildcard let’s see what happens .

I wish I shared your optimism. I'll say I'm "cautiously optimistic" right now. Truth is, Russ masked a lot of deficiencies on the roster. I think this roster is bottom third in the league. We need true studs. Outside of Tyler and DK, who is a true stud on this team? Let's hope they can get one at #9 in the draft. I heard one article say "Pete and John are back in their wheelhouse again" with draft picks and cap space. They built a SB winning roster once, I hope they can do it again. Like I said... Cautiously optimistic.

Hawktawk wrote:10-7 wildcard let’s see what happens .

And one and done in the playoffs. Based on our last place schedule, which would inflate our record beyond what we would normally expect, that sounds about right.

You, me, and several others in this forum have complained for years about that exact same result. We've been very good at making the playoffs. We've only failed to make them twice during Pete's 12 year tenure, but since the 2014 season, we haven't done anything other than win a random wild card game here and there (once thanks to Blair Walsh), failing to get past the divisional round. We have turned into this mediocre club that plays reasonably well during the regular season yet can't elevate our play into the dominant, SB contending team that we fielded from 2011-2014, a mediocre, .500ish franchise. You yourself have harped about this result for the past several years, even more vociferously than I have.

Now all of a sudden, a simple making of the playoffs, of which nearly half, 14 of the 32 teams, qualify, is an acceptable performance. What gives? Have we lowered our standard? Does Lock, Geno, et al, get a lower bar to clear than we established for our teams when Russell, whom according to you, was part of the problem, was at the helm? What gives?

I don't know what to think for two reasons. First, what does a Waldron offense look like that's not trying to please Russ? After hearing some of what was going on last year, I wonder if Waldron didn't get the chance to really install his offense. I think the running game is going to be good-not-great next year. Will that be enough for Waldron to get creative with motion and play-action, putting whatever bottom-tier QB we have in a position to make simple plays and hit the occasional deep ball to our studs at WR? Maybe, and if so then Hawktalk's optimism sounds about right. But if Waldron can't hide the quality of the QB, then this is too optimistic.

Second, the draft, cap casualties from other teams we sign, and perhaps some trades are yet to come.

I wouldn't be surprised by anything from 5-10 wins next year.

Oly wrote:I don't know what to think for two reasons. First, what does a Waldron offense look like that's not trying to please Russ? After hearing some of what was going on last year, I wonder if Waldron didn't get the chance to really install his offense. I think the running game is going to be good-not-great next year. Will that be enough for Waldron to get creative with motion and play-action, putting whatever bottom-tier QB we have in a position to make simple plays and hit the occasional deep ball to our studs at WR? Maybe, and if so then Hawktalk's optimism sounds about right. But if Waldron can't hide the quality of the QB, then this is too optimistic.

Second, the draft, cap casualties from other teams we sign, and perhaps some trades are yet to come.

I wouldn't be surprised by anything from 5-10 wins next year.

I agree nobody running our offense had it run properly by Russ . It worked out beautiful when he was athletic and not seeing the rush instead of the field .that all changed mid season a year ago . 11-29 with a pick 6 vs the Rams in that playoff . I saw so many missed passes this year , rookie mistakes from a 35 million dollar guy . Again, Geno Smith ran the offense better . I don’t think he had 3 games with 4 3 and outs in a row . I’m sure his 3rd down completion was above Russels 42% worst in the league . Yes Russ carried the team in the regular season for 5 or 6 years . He drug it down last year with inconsistent play and a toxic pall over the organization and I’m sure the locker room . You don’t need Russ or any franchise qb to win . You need a team playing together . garrapolo proved that , Goff, Hass wasn’t the most athletically gifted guy but look at his Seattle did in his era .
Seattle wasn’t last yeaR . 10-7 is a hell of an improvement if it happens , a building block . Even if it doesn’t next year Russ wanted out and he’s gone and if he goes 0-17 I will be overjoyed . I’ll root for the guys who want to be here .

Nathanial Hackett new Denver coach was asked what type of offense he wants to Run” whatever Russ wants “ . Let’s see how it works out .

The Offense will run within the confines of what Pete wants it to do regardless of who the OC is.
It's what boxed in Wilson and will box in other QB's. It might be, though that this limiting of plays
will help less skilled QB's, but it will necessarily mean there won't be many changes to our Offense
like some seem to think under Waldron. That is unless Pete is hands off on the Offense, which I doubt will happen.
Look for the same run, run, pass, punt formula we have seen since 2010 with pretty much the same formations.

We will have to see . The last guy not named Russel Wilson had an 80% completion rate and a 138 qbr in a 31-7 win . An admitted starter quality backup at best . Might not even be on the roster this year but facts are facts .

The offense Waldron brought put Jarred Goff in the super bowl . No offense works if the QB bails on the first or second read if they aren’t wide open . Nor if most incompletions are on 3rd down . We’ve still won a lot due to the superior scramble drill Russ runs . But it’s off schedule. Always has been .

So let’s see. Let’s give PC and JS and Waldron one more chance . That’s all . They say it’s not a rebuild . If it winds up being one let someone else build it . But all my chips are in for 22.

The way I see the Seahwks at this point in time is that they are nothing more than a farm club for the NFL. Once in awhile you get a good player keep em for a year or two and then trade em away and get some more blokes and keep the cycle running all the time have 4-13 to 7-10 seasons. Just a fact. GO RAMS

While I am somewhat optimistic as well, it is for a different reason. This draft class will fill some holes, but they will be rookies, and not many will be starters, at least at first, so the team will continue to struggle. Then, in next season's draft, which is much stronger, we will be in a position of filling out the roster. I believe that there are at least 3 quarterbacks that are better than any available this time, the team has an amazing amount of cap space, and more draft picks. So, in my view, we could be much better by '24, and strong in '25. But the team has to be smart and not try to force things. Take the best player, as your needs may change, and you need good players. That is not to ignore need, but when 2 players are equal, go for need, but don't reach. Finally, this draft do not take a QB before round 4.

Too long a wait? An advantage of being an old coot, is that I am in no hurry. Two, three years pass quickly, and the highs are sweeter after the lows are over.

How does that go, again? "Been down so long it seems like up to me".

As for optimistic, I agree. Going back to when this was a P.I. forum many have complained constantly about coaching. They were never happy with Holmgren and they don't like Pete either. There is more than one way to win and certainly a game plan with a strong D, good ST and a strong running game to complement the passing attack is one - and one that some of the best coaches in the league believe in. So what playoff teams passed more than SEA in '21? Only KC by any amoutn. Dallas, Buff and TB passed more, we were all close. The other 8 teams that passed more were losers.

With salary cap and FA it is really really hard to keep a contending team strong. But that's not always a bad thing - Belichick doesn't fall in love with anyone, or pay the stars that get big heads and want the moon. He churns the roster, and this is our chance to do the same. Other than Belichick, nobody has been more successful over the past decade than Pete, and he's #3 behind Andy Reid - but its Mahomes that made him improve. The number of times that Andy Reid's teams(Philly and KC) have collapsed in the playoffs more than I can remember. But forget the championship roster he built 10 years ago, how about the past 6 years?? Andy I spoke to. Harbaugh? 1 playoff win in 6 years, and missed the playoffs 3 of 6. McVay - He's just got his team built and has "the" team right now (like Pete in '12). We'll see what it looks like 5 years from now. Tomlin has missed twice and not a single playoff win since '16. Sean Payton missed playoffs 3 out of 6. Facts: when you fact check, you learn that our coach is a top 3 coach and John has done well also. I went back and looked at the last 6 drafts with SEA, KC, GB RAMS, and BALT. We stack up really well. We've had our fair share of wins and losses - but none of them trump us. Outside of that, there is always a team here and there that hits a big draft - but NOBODY does it consistently. I look forward to watching how this plays out.

There are so many layers to the whole Russ/Pete thing that it's almost impossible to describe. And everyone will have their own opinions to every single issue below:

- should RW3 have been traded or Pete been fired?
- did Pete restrict RW3 from becoming what he wanted to become and the offence being more dynamic?
- did RW3 want out and did his presence in the organization wear thin with both management and players?
- did Pete/John want Russ out after his public outburst in the offseason last year and realized he was becoming a distraction?
- did players take offence so RW3's outburst in offseason last year?
- can you win a championship paying a QB 40+ million?
- was RW3 not going to extend and walk away after the 2023 season? And was the reason he wouldn't extend Pete's fault?
- how much did RW3 mask team deficiencies the last 5 years with his play?
- was RW3's play the last 5 years really the only reason the Seahawks were competitive?
- was RW3's subpar play last season the start of a decline, or because of his finger, or because he checked out, or his discontent for Pete, or a combo of it all?
- was the O-line really that poor all this time or was it because of what RW3 was trying to do?
- do Pete/John see another QB being able to perform better in what they want as a system even though talent wise that QB will not be RW3?
- does Pete/John building a Super Bowl winner and a competitive team year in/year out give them the benefit of the doubt? Or did they strike lightning in a bottle with that all time Defense and Marshawn/RW3?

As much as people want to give Hawktawk grief over his views, and maybe he didn't present it how some of you would have liked, but there is alot of merit to what he is saying regarding everything.

For me it's as simple as this. RW3 is gone, I don't give a crap whose fault it was (for the record I think it was mutual), they got a good haul for him now before it was too late, and I am excited for the next chapter. I give Pete/John the benefit of the doubt and looking forward to what they will build now. I think Lock might be a suitable replacement, I know that's being overly optimistic but that's how I am wired.

I think it's great everyone can debate this and like I said so many layers and things to debate that it will be interesting to see how it plays out this year. I have a sneaky feeling that locker room feels better with Russ gone given his discontent. I have been around high level locker rooms before and had discontent people in it, and no matter how talented they were, it was always a better situation without them in it. That is what I feel is being underestimated by people when they look at RW3 being gone.

Old but Slow wrote:While I am somewhat optimistic as well, it is for a different reason. This draft class will fill some holes, but they will be rookies, and not many will be starters, at least at first, so the team will continue to struggle. Then, in next season's draft, which is much stronger, we will be in a position of filling out the roster. I believe that there are at least 3 quarterbacks that are better than any available this time, the team has an amazing amount of cap space, and more draft picks. So, in my view, we could be much better by '24, and strong in '25. But the team has to be smart and not try to force things. Take the best player, as your needs may change, and you need good players. That is not to ignore need, but when 2 players are equal, go for need, but don't reach. Finally, this draft do not take a QB before round 4.

Too long a wait? An advantage of being an old coot, is that I am in no hurry. Two, three years pass quickly, and the highs are sweeter after the lows are over.

How does that go, again? "Been down so long it seems like up to me".

Best post in this thread. ObS needs to change his acronym to OWM: Old Wise Man.

With regard to Drew Lock's 2nd chance. It's possible that a QB that failed with one team will suddenly 'find it' with their 2nd team, but the odds are that they won't. Carson Wentz, Teddy Bridgewater, Jamis Winston, Marcus Mariota, Jared Goff, and Sam Darnold are all recent first round draft picks that haven't succeeded in their 2nd and sometimes 3rd different teams, or at least not to the point where their team wanted to "build around them". Ryan Tannehill might be an exception to that rule, but there was a rumor floating around that the Titans might be looking for an upgrade.

That's likely one of the reasons why teams aren't exactly falling over each other to sign Baker Mayfield. So while I understand and applaud some of the optimism, I would caution Hawk fans to prepare themselves for a couple of down years.

The only acceptable outcome at the end of the season after the Super Bowl bar has been set is another Super Bowl. I don't think the Seahawks will be competing for a Super Bowl any time soon.

I'll be watching to see how the draft and the development of the new players go. I have zero belief this team will compete for a Super Bowl in the next few years. At this point going to the playoffs is just more low draft picks which Pete and John don't seem able to do much with. I'd rather stock up on some higher picks and replenish talent. I'm kind of hoping they tank for a few years. The entire way teams like the Rams, 49ers, Cardinals, and Buffalo built into what they are now is going into the absolute gutter, then drafting well with high draft picks, and developing the players. So these middling seasons just put us in bad position to draft middling talent.

I'd like a few years of gutter ball, some real high draft picks, then hopefully have a high caliber team that needs that one QB to take us to the next level.

Aseahawkfan wrote:The only acceptable outcome at the end of the season after the Super Bowl bar has been set is another Super Bowl. I don't think the Seahawks will be competing for a Super Bowl any time soon.

I'll be watching to see how the draft and the development of the new players go. I have zero belief this team will compete for a Super Bowl in the next few years. At this point going to the playoffs is just more low draft picks which Pete and John don't seem able to do much with. I'd rather stock up on some higher picks and replenish talent. I'm kind of hoping they tank for a few years. The entire way teams like the Rams, 49ers, Cardinals, and Buffalo built into what they are now is going into the absolute gutter, then drafting well with high draft picks, and developing the players. So these middling seasons just put us in bad position to draft middling talent.

I'd like a few years of gutter ball, some real high draft picks, then hopefully have a high caliber team that needs that one QB to take us to the next level.

We haven’t competed for a super bowl since our last super bowl . In the last 7 seasons we have a wildcard win gifted to us by Blair Walsh . A win over Detroit and a win over Philly with 55 year old Josh McCown .

In our 5 Losses 2 in the Wildcard and 3 in the divisional the pattern is an inability to score or even move chains early then a mad comeback . In 4 of those 5 losses we’ve never led in the second half . In 3 of them they have never held the lead in any of them . Vs the Rams last year playing at first a free agent wofford then Goff with a broken hand Russ entered the game 12-4 and he went 11-29 with a pick 6 with Donald out much of the game . Probably his worst playoff performance ever .
We haven’t won anything that matters since as you say the super bowl . So maybe it was time to reset

Hawktawk wrote:We haven’t competed for a super bowl since our last super bowl . In the last 7 seasons we have a wildcard win gifted to us by Blair Walsh . A win over Detroit and a win over Philly with 55 year old Josh McCown .

In our 5 Losses 2 in the Wildcard and 3 in the divisional the pattern is an inability to score or even move chains early then a mad comeback . In 4 of those 5 losses we’ve never led in the second half . In 3 of them they have never held the lead in any of them . Vs the Rams last year playing at first a free agent wofford then Goff with a broken hand Russ entered the game 12-4 and he went 11-29 with a pick 6 with Donald out much of the game . Probably his worst playoff performance ever.

We haven’t won anything that matters since as you say the super bowl . So maybe it was time to reset

I agree with all of that but I don't know why a 10-7 wild card berth as stated in the OP would represent an optimistic outlook as it seems almost identical to the results this team has achieved for the greater part of those past 7 years and deemed by both you and me as being unsatisfactory.

Are we not setting the bar lower for this team than what we had it set at in the past? What's changed?

RiverDog wrote:We haven’t competed for a super bowl since our last super bowl . In the last 7 seasons we have a wildcard win gifted to us by Blair Walsh . A win over Detroit and a win over Philly with 55 year old Josh McCown .

In our 5 Losses 2 in the Wildcard and 3 in the divisional the pattern is an inability to score or even move chains early then a mad comeback . In 4 of those 5 losses we’ve never led in the second half . In 3 of them they have never held the lead in any of them . Vs the Rams last year playing at first a free agent wofford then Goff with a broken hand Russ entered the game 12-4 and he went 11-29 with a pick 6 with Donald out much of the game . Probably his worst playoff performance ever.

We haven’t won anything that matters since as you say the super bowl . So maybe it was time to reset

I agree with all of that but I don't know why a 10-7 wild card berth as stated in the OP would represent an optimistic outlook as it seems almost identical to the results this team has achieved for the greater part of those past 7 years and deemed by both you and me as being unsatisfactory.

Are we not setting the bar lower for this team than what we had it set at in the past? What's changed?

This year was 7-10 and the team was dreadful , the franchise QB wasn't clutch. Its a new era. Seeing how you all think they are gonna suck Id say 10-7 would be a good start. Id be happy with it as a building block. Plus 10 and even a 9 win team have won it all. 12-4 didn't do jack squat when it mattered now did it?

Hawktawk wrote:This year was 7-10 and the team was dreadful , the franchise QB wasn't clutch. Its a new era. Seeing how you all think they are gonna suck Id say 10-7 would be a good start. Id be happy with it as a building block. Plus 10 and even a 9 win team have won it all. 12-4 didn't do jack squat when it mattered now did it?

It's a new era only in the sense that we have a different quarterback. The head coach is the same. You don't give Mulligans to the head coach after what even you admit were 7 consecutive unacceptable seasons.

Pete himself isn't saying that it's a 'new era' or that we're rebuilding, to the contrary, everything he's said indicates that we're 'reloading'. Indeed, if he brings in Baker Mayfield and/or keeps DK Metcalf, then it's a clear indication that he thinks we're a SB contender, and as such, I'll hold him accountable at the end of the season.

RiverDog wrote:
I agree with all of that but I don't know why a 10-7 wild card berth as stated in the OP would represent an optimistic outlook as it seems almost identical to the results this team has achieved for the greater part of those past 7 years and deemed by both you and me as being unsatisfactory.

Are we not setting the bar lower for this team than what we had it set at in the past? What's changed?

Yes the bar is lower and it should be. We are in year 1 of a rebuild and no longer have a franchise QB. When we lost to the Falcons in RW's first year it felt like we were headed in the right direction. We were young and had money to spend in free agency. After this past abysmal season we were old and had an inflated salary cap. The expectations for those two teams was much different. Teams with a franchise QB and no money to spend have nowhere else to go- their expectation should be to win the SB. Young teams with draft picks and money should be looking for improvement. The end goal is always going to be the same- win the SB, or actually win multiple SB's. I would take a loss in the divisional round this year if we have a solid young core of players and find a QB who we feel can win a SB any day over last year's team losing in the divisional round.

RiverDog wrote: I'll hold him accountable at the end of the season.

I already hold him accountable. He created a team that should have won multiple SB's and he couldn't seal the deal. He 're-tooled' that team and failed. He is the reason we are in full rebuild mode right now. I don't think he deserves a pass on any of that. If we lose in the divisional round, have a young team and find a good young QB, looking like we could compete for a SB after this year and you want to hold PC accountable for not winning the SB by all means call for his head, but I imagine you will be more happy with the direction of the team than you were after our last divisional round loss.

[quote="mykc14


I already hold him accountable. He created a team that should have won multiple SB's and he couldn't seal the deal. He 're-tooled' that team and failed. He is the reason we are in full rebuild mode right now. I don't think he deserves a pass on any of that. If we lose in the divisional round, have a young team and find a good young QB, looking like we could compete for a SB after this year and you want to hold PC accountable for not winning the SB by all means call for his head, but I imagine you will be more happy with the direction of the team than you were after our last divisional round loss.[/quote]


The QB threw a pick or He and Pete and Seahawks nation would have went back to back . There are teams who have never been .
If Russ wanted 3 or 4 more it would have been a great place to start .he and the team never recovered . Pete is greatest coach in our history by the same token Russ was the greatest QB.

I’m gonna give him respect and one more year . Anything less than a playoff team yank the ripcord .

RiverDog wrote: I'll hold him accountable at the end of the season.

mykc14 wrote:I already hold him accountable. He created a team that should have won multiple SB's and he couldn't seal the deal. He 're-tooled' that team and failed. He is the reason we are in full rebuild mode right now. I don't think he deserves a pass on any of that. If we lose in the divisional round, have a young team and find a good young QB, looking like we could compete for a SB after this year and you want to hold PC accountable for not winning the SB by all means call for his head, but I imagine you will be more happy with the direction of the team than you were after our last divisional round loss.

I am merely recognizing a reality, that Pete was given at least one more year to get things turned around. If I'd had my druthers, Pete would have been gone after last season. My point was that even if Pete's hitting the reset button on the team, something that even he says he's not doing, I'm not hitting the reset button on him and treat him in the same regard as if he were a newly hired coach.

I think you meant our last wild card round loss. The premise in the OP was 10-7 and a wild card berth. Our last playoff loss was in the wild card round vs. the Rams.

Assuming that's what you meant, I couldn't say whether or not I'd be happier with the direction of the team if we lost in the wild card of the playoffs vs. that God awful loss to the Rams. It would depend on the character of the season, including the playoffs. In 2020, we finished 12-4 and the NFC West champs, but after the loss to the Rams, I felt as if I'd been sold a case of snake oil by a slick salesman, that I was the victim of a scam. Our 12-4 record was inflated, just like our 7-10 record this season was deflated, meaning that we were nothing but a .500ish, mediocre team. If I get that feeling after the 2022 season, that we're still a mediocre team, then I'll be calling for Pete's head. I am not giving him a Mulligan simply because he traded our QB and shuffled a few coaching positions. He's been throwing OC's/DC's into the volcano for the past 4-5 years.

RiverDog wrote:
I am merely recognizing a reality, that Pete was given at least one more year to get things turned around. If I'd had my druthers, Pete would have been gone after last season. My point was that even if Pete's hitting the reset button on the team, something that even he says he's not doing, I'm not hitting the reset button on him and treat him in the same regard as if he were a newly hired coach.

I think you meant our last wild card round loss. The premise in the OP was 10-7 and a wild card berth. Our last playoff loss was in the wild card round vs. the Rams.

Assuming that's what you meant, I couldn't say whether or not I'd be happier with the direction of the team if we lost in the wild card of the playoffs vs. that God awful loss to the Rams. It would depend on the character of the season, including the playoffs. In 2020, we finished 12-4 and the NFC West champs, but after the loss to the Rams, I felt as if I'd been sold a case of snake oil by a slick salesman, that I was the victim of a scam. Our 12-4 record was inflated, just like our 7-10 record this season was deflated, meaning that we were nothing but a .500ish, mediocre team. If I get that feeling after the 2022 season, that we're still a mediocre team, then I'll be calling for Pete's head. I am not giving him a Mulligan simply because he traded our QB and shuffled a few coaching positions. He's been throwing OC's/DC's into the volcano for the past 4-5 years.

Yes, I was talking about the wildcard round. I don't think there is anyway I could feel as disheartened about this team and it's chances of winning a SB than I felt about the team after that Rams loss. If we somehow make the playoffs this year, even if we lose in the wildcard, I would have to think we are heading in the right direction and closer to a SB win than we were after the Rams loss. This 'rebuild' has bought PC a few more years in my book. I don't really like the idea of starting it with PC for a year, firing him, and then starting over. He has proven he can build a winner so I am willing to give him a few more years to do that. I also was hoping that PC was gone after last season, actually I wanted to move on from him after that Rams loss and the terrible off-season that preceded it. Also, we are talking about making the playoffs as a best case scenario, you state that you will call for Pete's head if we are mediocre football team. To me what we do next year is not nearly as important as where we are in two years. If we aren't a playoff caliber team in two years then I would agree that we should be calling for Pete's head. Probably the realistic best case scenario is that we are a QB away from seriously competing for a SB in two years. What PC does at that point in time will determine if we make a serious run or not.

RiverDog wrote:
I am merely recognizing a reality, that Pete was given at least one more year to get things turned around. If I'd had my druthers, Pete would have been gone after last season. My point was that even if Pete's hitting the reset button on the team, something that even he says he's not doing, I'm not hitting the reset button on him and treat him in the same regard as if he were a newly hired coach.

I think you meant our last wild card round loss. The premise in the OP was 10-7 and a wild card berth. Our last playoff loss was in the wild card round vs. the Rams.

Assuming that's what you meant, I couldn't say whether or not I'd be happier with the direction of the team if we lost in the wild card of the playoffs vs. that God awful loss to the Rams. It would depend on the character of the season, including the playoffs. In 2020, we finished 12-4 and the NFC West champs, but after the loss to the Rams, I felt as if I'd been sold a case of snake oil by a slick salesman, that I was the victim of a scam. Our 12-4 record was inflated, just like our 7-10 record this season was deflated, meaning that we were nothing but a .500ish, mediocre team. If I get that feeling after the 2022 season, that we're still a mediocre team, then I'll be calling for Pete's head. I am not giving him a Mulligan simply because he traded our QB and shuffled a few coaching positions. He's been throwing OC's/DC's into the volcano for the past 4-5 years.

mykc14 wrote:If we aren't a playoff caliber team in two years then I would agree that we should be calling for Pete's head.

Playoff caliber is what we are now, what we were last season, and what we have been for the past 7 years. All it means is that we're good enough to make a very liberal, 14 team tournament in a 32 team league. All it does, with its low draft seeding and 1st or 2nd place schedule as a consequence, is to sentence us to mediocrity. I want to be SB caliber, measured roughly by making it past the divisional round. If we can't be that good, I'd rather this team do a face plant as it seems that's the only way to make a good many people, including our owner, to quit making excuses and stop acting like the delirious, thirsty desert cowboy, chasing the shimmering lake in the distance. Then we could do a complete reset, something I wish would have happened at the end of last season, especially given that we were going to be without our franchise QB.

And before somebody chimes in and says if we fire Pete, we could wind up like the Lions or Jets, I am fully aware of that possibility, and it is a risk that I'm willing to take.

I don't see the makings of a competitive playoff team unless this team drafts really well. All I see is another 5 to 7 win season at best.

RiverDog wrote:
Playoff caliber is what we are now, what we were last season, and what we have been for the past 7 years. All it means is that we're good enough to make a very liberal, 14 team tournament in a 32 team league. All it does, with its low draft seeding and 1st or 2nd place schedule as a consequence, is to sentence us to mediocrity. I want to be SB caliber, measured roughly by making it past the divisional round. If we can't be that good, I'd rather this team do a face plant as it seems that's the only way to make a good many people, including our owner, to quit making excuses and stop acting like the delirious, thirsty desert cowboy, chasing the shimmering lake in the distance. Then we could do a complete reset, something I wish would have happened at the end of last season, especially given that we were going to be without our franchise QB.

And before somebody chimes in and says if we fire Pete, we could wind up like the Lions or Jets, I am fully aware of that possibility, and it is a risk that I'm willing to take.

I agree, but what I am arguing is that the bar for success for next years team isn't the same as the bar for last year's team. I want to see us progress from whatever we are to a SB champion as fast as possible. That progression will probably look like a top 15 pick team next year. Then playoff caliber for a year or two and then SB caliber for a 3-5 years. As long as we are progressing along this path I am OK with what we are doing. When you are paying your QB top 3 money you CANNOT function as just a 'playoff caliber' team. You MUST be SB contender, which we weren't and is why I would have been fine with PC getting canned a few years ago. To have the same expectations next year as you had for our team last year seems foolish and although PC says publicly that we aren't rebuilding I hope personnel, draft, and all major decision wise he is rebuilding.

Aseahawkfan wrote:I don't see the makings of a competitive playoff team unless this team drafts really well. All I see is another 5 to 7 win season at best.

I tend to agree with this and honestly (although obviously I always want us to win) I don't expect much more. We are in year 1 of a complete rebuild. We will have, at the very least 6 new starter on offense and 4-5 on defense along with a new scheme. Finding high quality, long term starters at multiple positions should be the focus for the next two years. The foundations to a SB team.

RiverDog wrote:
Playoff caliber is what we are now, what we were last season, and what we have been for the past 7 years. All it means is that we're good enough to make a very liberal, 14 team tournament in a 32 team league. All it does, with its low draft seeding and 1st or 2nd place schedule as a consequence, is to sentence us to mediocrity. I want to be SB caliber, measured roughly by making it past the divisional round. If we can't be that good, I'd rather this team do a face plant as it seems that's the only way to make a good many people, including our owner, to quit making excuses and stop acting like the delirious, thirsty desert cowboy, chasing the shimmering lake in the distance. Then we could do a complete reset, something I wish would have happened at the end of last season, especially given that we were going to be without our franchise QB.

And before somebody chimes in and says if we fire Pete, we could wind up like the Lions or Jets, I am fully aware of that possibility, and it is a risk that I'm willing to take.

mykc14 wrote:I agree, but what I am arguing is that the bar for success for next years team isn't the same as the bar for last year's team. I want to see us progress from whatever we are to a SB champion as fast as possible. That progression will probably look like a top 15 pick team next year. Then playoff caliber for a year or two and then SB caliber for a 3-5 years. As long as we are progressing along this path I am OK with what we are doing. When you are paying your QB top 3 money you CANNOT function as just a 'playoff caliber' team. You MUST be SB contender, which we weren't and is why I would have been fine with PC getting canned a few years ago. To have the same expectations next year as you had for our team last year seems foolish and although PC says publicly that we aren't rebuilding I hope personnel, draft, and all major decision wise he is rebuilding.

I understand your point of view, I just disagree with it. There are 6-8 NFL head coaches per season that are fired or resign each year. That means that the median number of years of tenure for NFL coaches is somewhere around 5 years. IMO giving a 12 year veteran coach another 5 years to show that he can do something that he hasn't done for the past 7 is an unreasonable length of time.

We'll see if Pete's actions match his words. If he does things like brings in someone like Baker Mayfield, resigns Duane Brown, makes another Adams type trade, then I think it's pretty conclusive evidence that he's not rebuilding.

RiverDog wrote:
IMO giving a 12 year veteran coach another 5 years to show that he can do something that he hasn't done for the past 7 is an unreasonable length of time.

We'll see if Pete's actions match his words. If he does things like brings in someone like Baker Mayfield, resigns Duane Brown, makes another Adams type trade, then I think it's pretty conclusive evidence that he's not rebuilding.

I don't give him 5 years either unless we are legitimate SB champions. At the same time I don't fire him if he commits to a rebuild and we are a 5 win team next year. I think we are on the same page regarding the idea that PC should have been fired a few years ago. Personally I would give him two years to show that we are heading in the right direction. If we aren't SB contenders in 3/4 years I would fire him. If we take a dramatic step backwards in years 2 or 3 I would fire him. What is your threshold for firing him? Earlier you said you would fire him if you felt that we were a mediocre team. If we really commit to this rebuild (which is what I definitely want and I think you want) then I would think we would be below mediocre next year. Are you OK with that? Are you OK with us taking a few years to rebuild (year 1- crappy, year 2-mediocre, year 3- playoffs/fringe SB contender, year 4- legitimate SB contender- or something like that)?

mykc14 wrote: What is your threshold for firing him? Earlier you said you would fire him if you felt that we were a mediocre team. If we really commit to this rebuild (which is what I definitely want and I think you want) then I would think we would be below mediocre next year. Are you OK with that? Are you OK with us taking a few years to rebuild (year 1- crappy, year 2-mediocre, year 3- playoffs/fringe SB contender, year 4- legitimate SB contender- or something like that)?

That's a loaded question that I don't have an answer to, but I'll try to give you an example.

In 2011, we lost in the divisional round to the Atlanta Falcons. Despite that loss, I felt that we had the best team in the NFC. We absolutely murdered the Niners, the eventual NFC champs, just a few weeks earlier. We had a young, dynamic QB that had helped our offense run up multiple 30+ point games. We had a running back in Beast that was one of hardest running ball carrier that I've ever seen. And we had a young, smothering defense that became known as the Legion of Boom. I had a subjective feeling that this team was on the cusp of greatness, a feeling that was actualized the following season.

If we have a season on par with what we did in 2011 yet lose a closely contested game in the playoffs like we did vs. the Falcons, it would likely cause me to feel optimistic. But if we get to the playoffs and win a wild card game via a shanked FG then lose in the divisional round, it likely won't produce the same degree of optimism as the former.

Bottom line is that I want to see a SB caliber team, and I'm not willing to wait very long. If we had a new coach that I felt good about, I might be willing to wait another 5 years. But not with some 70 year old has been and used to be that hasn't produced a SB caliber team in the past 7 years, indeed destroyed what could have been a great dynasty with is bad decisions and squandered a once in a lifetime opportunity for us Hawk fans..

I look at Pete’s age as my first clue he’s not signing up for a rebuild . But was he misled ? Was it a matter of Russ was leaving and they wanted some continuity as opposed to just cleaning house . I’m still optimistic . There was a 5000’lb gorilla named RW sitting on this entire organization. We can win if we play Pete ball with the pieces we have and let’s see about the draft . I’ve heard the kid from liberty is likely gone at 9.

Hawktawk wrote:I look at Pete’s age as my first clue he’s not signing up for a rebuild . But was he misled ? Was it a matter of Russ was leaving and they wanted some continuity as opposed to just cleaning house . I’m still optimistic . There was a 5000’lb gorilla named RW sitting on this entire organization. We can win if we play Pete ball with the pieces we have and let’s see about the draft . I’ve heard the kid from liberty is likely gone at 9.

I'm not sure where you're hearing that Malik Willis will be gone at #9, but I'm not seeing any QB's going in the top 10 in any of the mocks. There's also not a consensus top QB, Willis being one of three being mentioned, which doesn't bode well for a team burning a top 10 pick on a player not widely recognized as the top at his position.

There's a lot of edge rushers and offensive linemen, positions of need for us, but not many skill position players. At least in the first round, I'd like to see us stand pat and see if one of those top players happens to fall to #9. My guess is that they won't and Schneider will trade back like he always does.

I heard a draft analyst say that even though they have been talking themselves out of this draft class QB offerings they will talk themselves back into it . Willis is dynamic enough this particular ESPN analyst felt he could come off the board early . We shall see . I think if we want to win this year we’ve got to have a veteran under center even if it’s someone like Locke or Geno with up and down and mostly down history . I’ve got to trust whatever they did to improve Geno can work with Locke who I prefer as the starter depending on training camp of course . With Geno still unsigned I think another shoe may drop .

Hawktawk wrote:I heard a draft analyst say that even though they have been talking themselves out of this draft class QB offerings they will talk themselves back into it . Willis is dynamic enough this particular ESPN analyst felt he could come off the board early . We shall see . I think if we want to win this year we’ve got to have a veteran under center even if it’s someone like Locke or Geno with up and down and mostly down history . I’ve got to trust whatever they did to improve Geno can work with Locke who I prefer as the starter depending on training camp of course . With Geno still unsigned I think another shoe may drop .

Yeah, maybe. There a couple of teams picking in the top 10 that have a need at QB, including the Falcons, Panthers, and perhaps the Texans. It's just that there's not a lot of surprises in the top 10.

I also hear a lot of people talking up Matt Corral. Sports Illustrated recently had us taking him with our #9. One of the mocks I trust is Walter Football. Last year, they were ranked as the 2nd most accurate. Their most recent mock has Willis being the first QB off the board going to the Steelers at #20 even though they've already signed Mitch Turbisky. They, too, have us taking Corral, but not until the 2nd round.

https://www.walterfootball.com/draft2022.php

The problem with QBs in this draft is there is nobody in it like a Lawrence or Luck or even RGIII who are clearly
very talented and have shown the ability to play at a high level in college. They all have some serious deficiencies
in their game at this point.
That being said, every year a team overdrafts a QB but with so much on the line, most teams can't afford to select
a QB then have him sit on the bench for 2 or 3 years which is what most of this class will need to do.
However, there are usually a QB or two that is drafted later than round one that unexpectedly rises to the top and
a few years later people ask themselves how they missed him.
So for teams drafting high in this draft, it would probably be a better move to select an impact player in the top ten
and try to get a QB in the second round or later. But we all know that's probably not going to happen.

RiverDog wrote:Yeah, maybe. There a couple of teams picking in the top 10 that have a need at QB, including the Falcons, Panthers, and perhaps the Texans. It's just that there's not a lot of surprises in the top 10.

I also hear a lot of people talking up Matt Corral. Sports Illustrated recently had us taking him with our #9. One of the mocks I trust is Walter Football. Last year, they were ranked as the 2nd most accurate. Their most recent mock has Willis being the first QB off the board going to the Steelers at #20 even though they've already signed Mitch Turbisky. They, too, have us taking Corral, but not until the 2nd round.

https://www.walterfootball.com/draft2022.php

I hope somebody in the top 8 takes a QB, that means there is a better chance of an elite EDGE being available for us. I actually like Corral a lot, and by a lot I mean I think he probably has the most upside of any QB in this draft. I don't like him enough to take with #9 and I personally would rather us not go QB with our first three picks but if we do use one of them on a QB I hope it is Corral (please not at #9!!!). He didn't play in a pro-style offense and that hurts, he is at least a year away. The kid from Notre Dame or the guy from UNC aren't far behind the other QB's, are more likely to be available in the middle rounds, and are probably more pro-ready.

mykc14 wrote:I hope somebody in the top 8 takes a QB, that means there is a better chance of an elite EDGE being available for us. I actually like Corral a lot, and by a lot I mean I think he probably has the most upside of any QB in this draft. I don't like him enough to take with #9 and I personally would rather us not go QB with our first three picks but if we do use one of them on a QB I hope it is Corral (please not at #9!!!). He didn't play in a pro-style offense and that hurts, he is at least a year away. The kid from Notre Dame or the guy from UNC aren't far behind the other QB's, are more likely to be available in the middle rounds, and are probably more pro-ready.

Yeah, me, too. Or a LT if one happens to drop. But I'm not holding my breath.

Matt Rhule of the Panthers has gone to both Corral and Willis' pro days. They have the #6 overall. But taking a QB that high is very risky, especially for a coach that is on the bubble. If he reaches for a QB that high in the draft and it doesn't turn out well, it's likely the end of his days as a HC.

Early on, the talk about the Seahawks potentially drafting a QB was that Willis was the best fit for our offense, but lately, they've moved away from him and the Flavor of the Day now seems to be Corral.

Hawktawk wrote:I look at Pete’s age as my first clue he’s not signing up for a rebuild . But was he misled ? Was it a matter of Russ was leaving and they wanted some continuity as opposed to just cleaning house . I’m still optimistic . There was a 5000’lb gorilla named RW sitting on this entire organization. We can win if we play Pete ball with the pieces we have and let’s see about the draft . I’ve heard the kid from liberty is likely gone at 9.

It doesn't matter what Pete or anyone else say or what his age is, you don't have a QB or any unit you can point to as great and you're rebuilding. We don't have either a great offense or a great defense and no QB, so we're in rebuild mode. We're switching schemes, looking for our next QB, and are at this point in time completely non-completive.

Pete can get on TV with a bullhorn shouting "We're not rebuilding" and I'd laugh at him, call him an idiot, and keep talking about the rebuild.

We all know what this is. This is year one of a rebuild with absolutely nothing indicating otherwise. We have no great units in place where we can go, "We just need a QB and we're a go again." We are rebuilding. Period. End of Story. Until we see either a defense or offense showing they are a great and improving unit with young talent we can hang our hat on, then we're not at the point where we can all say, "We just need a QB and we're a go" like we were just before they drafted Russell Wilson.

So we're rebuilding. This draft is essential they hit on some key players to give the Seattle fan base some hope that this strategy will work.

Now that Pete and John are contracted for a while, it is not likely that we will see any changes soon. Like others, I have moved on from Pete, but he is here now and we have an important draft coming the end of this month and we can then be clearer on what direction the team is going. We need help with the pass rush, both from the edge and up the middle; we meed at least one good offensive lineman (even if not ready to start as a rookie); a speedy cover corner or at least a slot guy; a linebacker; and a partridge in a pear tree. But, if this draft gives us quarterbacks, tight ends, or safeties in the early rounds, I will enjoy watching my Seahawks again, because that is what I do, but with no expectations of winning.

Even if we draft well, they won't all be starters. If we can get 2-3 starters, and some fill-in depth, we can feel good. I will still not be expecting a winner, but my hopes will be higher. Two strong drafts and we are in business. Or not.

Whoa! I blathered that all out and I don't even drink.

JS might trade down from 9 if a player they really want isn’t there and I fully expect him to trade
out of either 40 or 41 as well.
Teams are built on the mid round selections where lots of solid but not necessarily impact players are
found. This year it looks like some really good talent will be available from the 2nd to 4th or maybe
early 5th. It may end up being one of the better “Building Block” drafts we’ve seen in quite a while.
Outside of QB, there seems to be good talent at every position. The question is will we pass by the
best players like in the past or will we select head scratchers like in the past?

Like ObS said, I hope we end up with 2 or 3 starters but if we don’t I hope they have great upside
and will develop in only a year or so. If so, we could fix the LoS on both sides as well as get a
good RB and a LB or 2.