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Schefter reporting Bobby Wagner has been told he will be released.

What a day, huh?

govandals wrote:Schefter reporting Bobby Wagner has been told he will be released.

What a day, huh?

Not a surprise.

He and Wilson arrived to the Seahawks and departed on the same day. Youth move underway? What does this mean for Duane Brown and Quandre Diggs? I really thought if we were going to seriously keep/pursue Diggs that we would franchise tag him but that window has passed. Was this shakeup the result of an effort to restructure RW's and Wag's contracts and perhaps a cold rebuff to getting RW to agree to a contract extension? We as fans can only reap the results of unknown power/business struggles and stay on the rollercoaster...or stuff our ride tickets back into our pockets...

The last two players from our SB championship are gone. Now our Lombardi is REALLY in the past.

Sad day, but at the same time, life springs eternal. It's truly a new day, and I, for one, am looking forward to it.

Now we know we're in full rebuild. Screw it. Let's do this. See what we can get.

I like defense better anyway. Build me another stellar defense and let's do this. No more hanging on to the aging sports cars.

Pete's better with younger players. Purge the curse of the 2nd lost Super Bowl and let's do this.

Shaken but not shocked. And I don't think this is the end of the personnel changes we will be seeing. I expect D. Brown will be gone.

I'm guessing this means they will resign Penny. And what about Metcalf?

trents wrote:Shaken but not shocked. And I don't think this is the end of the personnel changes we will be seeing. I expect D. Brown will be gone.

I'm guessing this means they will resign Penny. And what about Metcalf?

For the last 6 months, I've been arguing to trade Metcalf. I started a thread about it and was roundly criticized by the group for the mere suggestion. I even referred to it when I started a thread about Cooper Kupp.

Not sure what, if anything, this means for Penny. If we were that enamored with him, we would have picked up his 5th year option. I have a hard time believing a few weeks in a busted season will make that big of a difference in our attitude towards him, but who knows.

trents wrote:Shaken but not shocked. And I don't think this is the end of the personnel changes we will be seeing. I expect D. Brown will be gone.

I'm guessing this means they will resign Penny. And what about Metcalf?

Definitely not the end of changes.
I am not sure about Duane Brown, one would think he would want to play for a winning team at his age but at times he was visibly frustrated with RW. Maybe he will embrace the change. I know he likes Seattle.
Ditto for DK being frustrated with Russ. Who knows what DK is thinking right now.
I'm hearing Seattle is open to moving Lockett. He has 4 yrs and roughly 50 mil left on his deal. Cap hit is 10 million with a 31 million dead cap. Ouch. I believe they can spread the dead cap over 3 years. Not worth it to me especially since he will net only a mid round pick with that contract.

I think we have more changes and trades coming.

Thanks Waggs, for all of it! You were the best MLB we ever had, good luck on your new team!

It was a good move by the team to let him go before FA so he has a jump on going to a new team.
Some team will want him and his leadership so he should get a few more years of being paid.
Good luck to him - he's been one of the best ever since being drafted along with Wilson.

For the last 6 months, I've been arguing to trade Metcalf. I started a thread about it and was roundly criticized by the group for the mere suggestion. I even referred to it when I started a thread about Cooper Kupp.

Not sure what, if anything, this means for Penny. If we were that enamored with him, we would have picked up his 5th year option. I have a hard time believing a few weeks in a busted season will make that big of a difference in our attitude towards him, but who knows.

River, who was the best MLB we ever had before Bobby? Kirkland?

I liked Lofa the best before Bobby. But his career was cut short by injuries.

For the last 6 months, I've been arguing to trade Metcalf. I started a thread about it and was roundly criticized by the group for the mere suggestion. I even referred to it when I started a thread about Cooper Kupp.

Not sure what, if anything, this means for Penny. If we were that enamored with him, we would have picked up his 5th year option. I have a hard time believing a few weeks in a busted season will make that big of a difference in our attitude towards him, but who knows.

obiken wrote:River, who was the best MLB we ever had before Bobby? Kirkland?

We don't have a lot a history of great MLB's, not when you compare us to a team like the Bears (Butkus, Singletary, Urlacher). Lofa was the best pass defender and had a nose for the football, but he was a little undersized and tended to get washed out on running plays. IMO Terry Beeson and Anthony Simmons were bigger hitters and better run defenders, but even they weren't all that great.

Bobby is clearly the best and might make the Hall of Fame.

Aseahawkfan wrote:Bobby is clearly the best and might make the Hall of Fame.

"Might" make the HOF? IMO he's a bigger slam dunk than Russell.

Here's a thought. I've been hearing a rumor that we might be going to a 3-4 defense next season, that Pete, having said that he's been too arrogant when it comes to defense, might be tearing up his old playbook and going to something completely different. Could that new leaf that he's turning be something that leaves out a traditional MLB like Bobby?

RiverDog wrote:"Might" make the HOF? IMO he's a bigger slam dunk than Russell.

Lots of great MLBs. Bobby will likely make it. Bobby pretty comparable to Derrick Brooks.

Thing you don't seem to acknowledge about Russell and what up's his chances is he literally changed the league's view of height at QB. He is the shortest QB to play at the level he performs at. Prior to that Doug Flutie was the shortest QB to do somewhat well. Russ changed the paradigm. If Russ were 3 inches taller, he would have easily been a top 5 or 10 pick. His height dropped him to the 3rd round. Schneider and Pete took the shot. The rest is history.

He should be a first ballot HoF entry.
6 All pro and 8 Pro Bowl selections, led the league in tackles a number of years.

Aseahawkfan wrote:Thing you don't seem to acknowledge about Russell and what up's his chances is he literally changed the league's view of height at QB. He is the shortest QB to play at the level he performs at. Prior to that Doug Flutie was the shortest QB to do somewhat well. Russ changed the paradigm. If Russ were 3 inches taller, he would have easily been a top 5 or 10 pick. His height dropped him to the 3rd round. Schneider and Pete took the shot. The rest is history.

I fully acknowledge that Russell might get a gold jacket, perhaps even probably. But it's not a slam dunk, at least not yet. Russell's never won a league MVP or a SB MVP. He's not in the top 10 in any of the major statistical categories. He doesn't have multiple rings. Carson Palmer, Kerry Collins, and Drew Bledsoe all have more career passing yardage than he does. He's 15th all time in touchdown passes. He's not a slam dunk like his contemporaries, ie Brady, Rodgers, and Brees, rather more in the category of a Worthlessburger or Eli.

RiverDog wrote:I fully acknowledge that Russell might get a gold jacket, perhaps even probably. But it's not a slam dunk, at least not yet. Russell's never won a league MVP or a SB MVP. He's not in the top 10 in any of the major statistical categories. He doesn't have multiple rings. Carson Palmer, Kerry Collins, and Drew Bledsoe all have more career passing yardage than he does. He's 15th all time in touchdown passes. He's not a slam dunk like his contemporaries, ie Brady, Rodgers, and Brees, rather more in the category of a Worthlessburger or Eli.

I still think he gets a boost for changing the way the league thinks about QBs.

"Might" make the HOF? IMO he's a bigger slam dunk than Russell.

No doubt he and Luke Kuchkley Were the two best at that position for years! Both are on the All Decade team.

RiverDog wrote:I fully acknowledge that Russell might get a gold jacket, perhaps even probably. But it's not a slam dunk, at least not yet. Russell's never won a league MVP or a SB MVP. He's not in the top 10 in any of the major statistical categories. He doesn't have multiple rings. Carson Palmer, Kerry Collins, and Drew Bledsoe all have more career passing yardage than he does. He's 15th all time in touchdown passes. He's not a slam dunk like his contemporaries, ie Brady, Rodgers, and Brees, rather more in the category of a Worthlessburger or Eli.

Aseahawkfan wrote:I still think he gets a boost for changing the way the league thinks about QBs.

Maybe he'll get a bit of a boost for being the shortest QB of his era. But he is exactly the same height as Fran Tarkenton, who played with an almost identical style as Russell (there's actually a picture of Russell and Scramb'ln Fran somewhere). So it's not as if he's Jackie Robinson breaking the color barrier or Joe Namath's personality defining the AFL.

He'll likely get in as they've liberalized the standard for acceptance into the HOF. I couldn't believe it when they admitted Kenny Stabler, who threw more interceptions than he did TD passes, or Drew Pearson, who had just 3 Pro Bowl appearances. It's no longer an exclusive club for the greatest players in the game. It includes the not-so-great, B+ players as well.

Ben gets in. Manning because he won two, but its a closer call.

RiverDog wrote:He'll likely get in as they've liberalized the standard for acceptance into the HOF. I couldn't believe it when they admitted Kenny Stabler, who threw more interceptions than he did TD passes, or Drew Pearson, who had just 3 Pro Bowl appearances. It's no longer an exclusive club for the greatest players in the game. It includes the not-so-great, B+ players as well.

This is spot-on.

A discussion on the merits/likelihood of Bobby Wagner making the Hall of Fame? Really?? His glowing endorsement by the NFL Hall of Fame as being on the all decade team puts him in the conversation as when...not if.

1st Ballot entry.

NorthHawk wrote:1st Ballot entry.

Agreed.

NorthHawk wrote:1st Ballot entry.

c_hawkbob wrote:Agreed.

Yup. We can argue about Russell, but not Wags. Like Obi said, with the possible exception of Luke Kuechly, Bobby was/is the best at his position during his era. First ballot. Perhaps the 3rd such slam dunk Seahawk HOF'er in addition to Walt and Largent.

I think he was better than Kuechly, but being on the West Coast he didn't get the attention of the media.

NorthHawk wrote:I think he was better than Kuechly, but being on the West Coast he didn't get the attention of the media.

It's a good argument as they were without a doubt the best two MLB's during their era. They both have similar Pro Bowls/All Pro awards. Kuechly does a DPOY and Bobby doesn't, but Bobby has a ring and Kuechly doesn't. Bobby played in a couple more seasons. It's like the argument about who's the better NBA player, Bird or Magic.

Worst thing is they didn't even telling him they were releasing him face to face:



Defend them all you want but I think John and Pete are botching this rebuild.

c_hawkbob wrote:Worst thing is they didn't even telling him they were releasing him face to face:



Defend them all you want but I think John and Pete are botching this rebuild.

Ha! They have been botching this since we lost the SB. We have been "re-tooling" instead of re-building for three years. IMO, their biggest blunder occurred 2 off-seasons ago. They had finally set themselves up to be spenders in Free Agency but wasted all of their money on middling players instead of trying to land major talent. They had like 50 million to spend and literally had nothing to show for it except Benson Mayowa and Brandon Shell. They further F-ed up the off-season with the worst trade in franchise history by trading for Jemal Adams. That was the off-season I started calling for accountability and realized they weren't up to the challenge of putting together another SB with the roster they had constructed. That was the summer they began to lose RW (although it partly could have been his fault if he really was pushing them to sign Greg Olson). They could have protected him, given him more weapons, signed/traded for a legit game changer on the D-Line, but they just wasted the money. For a few years after our SB loss we were in a tight cap situation and I understood the difficulty in brining in talent- having to rely on trades to bring in Blue Chip type of players, but when we finally had the money we completely sh!t ourselves. I personally don't have a ton of faith that PC can rebuild this thing again without getting lucky with a QB. At the same time I didn't see us going back to the SB with RW's contract either, so all I can do now is hope we get lucky.

I don't know the circumstances, but I am in agreement that the Seahawks should have notified him face-to-face - unless there was something driving it - like trying to work out a deal (he ain't getting $20MM) and BW telling them to go take a flying....at a rolling donut.

As for the rebuild being "botched". The RW trade signaled a rebuild, and we all know BW was likely to be gone do to declining play, big contract and the improved play of Jordon Brooks. They haven't done anything else (it's only been a week), so the "rebuild" hasn't really started yet. We'll find out.

I sincerely hope that they had intended to tell him personally but word got out before
they could. He deserved to have it announced after the Wilson trade furor died down.

Like I said, bad roster management.

Not even talk to Bobby? He gave Seattle all he had for 10 years. That's just messed up. What is going on there?

Aseahawkfan wrote:Like I said, bad roster management.

Not even talk to Bobby? He gave Seattle all he had for 10 years. That's just messed up. What is going on there?

Possibly leaks where someone spilled the beans before they could talk to him.
Or it might just be insensitivity/incompetence on the part of the FO.

NorthHawk wrote:Possibly leaks where someone spilled the beans before they could talk to him.
Or it might just be insensitivity/incompetence on the part of the FO.

My buddy thinks they are engineering some big trade, likely for the scumbag Watson. So they moving fast, clearing cap and getting ready for some big moves to rebuild fast. We shall see.

Aseahawkfan wrote:Like I said, bad roster management.

Not even talk to Bobby? He gave Seattle all he had for 10 years. That's just messed up. What is going on there?

NorthHawk wrote:Possibly leaks where someone spilled the beans before they could talk to him. Or it might just be insensitivity/incompetence on the part of the FO.

I have to believe that it's the latter, that someone screwed up and the news got out before they could talk to Bobby. I can't believe that anyone this side of Jerry Jones would dismiss a player or coach that has meant as much to the franchise as Bobby did without talking to him first.

Bobby negotiated his own deal which paid him 20 million a year. Nobody else is invested in a Mike that much and his game was slipping more than you know which is a huge reason Seattle got gashed in the middle, run over, sluiced and diced passing between the hash marks. Wyman described him as a "finesse" linebacker the last couple years, not crashing downhill and engaging blockers anymore and without the range to cover the field. Still a good player but not great anymore .

It doesn't make how he went down the road without a heads up right but it was intended as a favor and I'm not gonna cry for a guy with 50 million in the bank or whatever. It was probably a media leak before they contacted him anyway. Brooks and Barton will be an upgrade and maybe with the capital saved we can get more help.

I think the Denver thing only went down after Rodgers decided to stay and when the FO realized it was out there that Russ was moving on they said what the hell lets get all the bad news out same day. Kind of smart IMO.