Jodi's silence

[trents]

I note that not only does Jodi Allen have a lot of decisions to make with regard to the Seahawks but she is also dealing with a lot of questions with the Portland Trailblazers. Both teams are wretched this year. Neither has made any progress for some years now and this year both have slipped several rungs down on the latter. So this lady has a lot on her mind I imagine.

[obiken]

Or not, I dont think she cares about sports at all, at least thats the sense I get.

[tarlhawk]

Both teams are wretched this year. Neither has made any progress for some years now

...for some years now? What do you call progress? We won the NFC West last year...we haven't been in a Super Bowl for 6 years...how terrible.

[Aseahawkfan]

Or not, I dont think she cares about sports at all, at least thats the sense I get.

This is what I think as well. I think she would sell both teams if the PR wasn't bad. I think she will at some point. I'm hoping Paul Allen has a clause they must be kept in Seattle and Portland.

[trents]

Okay, the label "wretched" may not apply to the Seahawks until this year but the way they lost to the Rams (whose QB had a bumb throwing hand) in the first round of the playoffs was indeed a "wretched" performance and the winning of the NFC West masked a lot of issues that indicated decline since the Superbowl years under Pete.

[c_hawkbob]

Yeah and this will be the Blazers second losing season (and the first out of the playoffs, barring a miracle) since 2013, and they were in the finals in 2019. Overstatement is the norm around here.

[Hawktawk]

We took a dump in the playoff game last year in a brutal non competitive home loss . We have won 1 wildcard game in the last 5 seasons and 3 total playoff games since SB 49. Missed the postseason entirely for the second time in 5 years with a brutal team losing to 3 backup quarterbacks and now 5-10. Jodi Allen attends every home game in the Allen suite . When alive Paul canned Holmgren after one brutal season following 5 playoff seasons in a row including a super bowl appearance . He turned right around and fired Mora right after he walked off the podium after giving the year end state of the team press conference . They were negotiating with PC till the final minute . That’s ruthless . Jodi has overseen the firing of Stotts in Portland 2 years after he reached the western conference finals . He was in the playoffs almost every season and has one of the best guards in the game in Damien Lillard. I think it’s notable there have been no
Leaks at all either expressing support or indicating change is imminent . I’m not sure they aren’t watching the last 2 to try to figure out what to do .

[trents]

Have the Allens fired any head coaches during the season or did they always wait until the season was over?

[NorthHawk]

Have the Allens fired any head coaches during the season or did they always wait until the season was over?

I think Paul waited until the end of the season - for the Seahawks. I don't follow the Blazers.
Holmgren ended the season as did Mora, but the changes were made fairly quickly when the season ended.
If I remember correctly, Pete was hired the next day after the Mora firing, so it would seem that negotiations
must have started prior to the firing.

It seems to me that if Jody does business the same as Paul, we won't really know what will happen until it does.
Some business people like to work deeply in the background and others (Jerry Jones for example) like to be
more public in their dealings.

[Hawktawk]

If I recall Pete’s hiring was announced pretty much at the same time mora was fired . They were negotiating up till the last minute which is why Mora was allowed to give the speech on the state of the team . Had Carroll not come to terms Mora may have been retained . That’s actually secretive , ruthless , cunnning . It’s interesting in that it shows that the Allen organization might keep a coach if the guy that they think can improve things is not available too.

[obiken]

This is what I think as well. I think she would sell both teams if the PR wasn't bad. I think she will at some point. I'm hoping Paul Allen has a clause they must be kept in Seattle and Portland.

I agree ASHF, I think that is the best we can hope for.

[Hawktawk]

Immediately after PA died there was a feeling she would sell. I heard rumors it would possibly be to Jeff Bezos . At some point she changed her mind and by all accounts enjoys ownership now . She attends every home game . Her actions with the Blazers shows she’s aware of records and fan expectations . Just breaking JS says “ ready to start anew “

[trents]

Just breaking JS says “ ready to start anew “

What? Can you elaborate?

[Hawktawk]

My bad it’s just another reporter selling copy . Not an actual quote .

[RiverDog]

Have the Allens fired any head coaches during the season or did they always wait until the season was over?

I think Paul waited until the end of the season - for the Seahawks. I don't follow the Blazers.
Holmgren ended the season as did Mora, but the changes were made fairly quickly when the season ended.
If I remember correctly, Pete was hired the next day after the Mora firing, so it would seem that negotiations
must have started prior to the firing.

It seems to me that if Jody does business the same as Paul, we won't really know what will happen until it does.
Some business people like to work deeply in the background and others (Jerry Jones for example) like to be
more public in their dealings.

Shortly after Allen bought the team, he fired head coach Dennis Erickson after losing our final game of the season on the worst officiating call in the history of the league and the impetus for our current replay review system when the Jets scored a walk off touchdown on the last play of the game that had we won, we would have made the playoffs. That blown call, later admitted to by the ref as saying he thought Vinny Testaverde's helmet was the football, is what led to Mike Holmgren's hiring.

No one knew it at the time, but it's ironic that even though we were the victims of the worst call in the history of the game, it was a blessing in disguise as had we made the playoffs, Allen most likely wouldn't have fired Erickson, we would have continued our mediocrity for at least another year, and we would have missed out on the 2nd best era of Seahawk football in franchise history.

[NorthHawk]

So PA didn't hire Erickson but it seems the coaches he did hire he waited for the season to end to make a move.

[RiverDog]

So PA didn't hire Erickson but it seems the coaches he did hire he waited for the season to end to make a move.

He waited until the end of the season to fire Erickson, too.

[tarlhawk]

Interesting previous post RD...I rarely followed any Seahawk news upon arriving in Washington...mainly due to the job that brought me over here from Pa. I didn't warm to the Hawks until the ESPN 2010 Draft coverage. I loved watching the "drama" of trying to guess draft selections and had followed ESPN draft coverage for quite some time before...I was watching it when Dan Marino kept falling/dropping in the draft as expectations had him projected much higher. I was a Dolphin "addict" at that time so when Miami selected him I knew it wasn't need...many fans felt David Woodley was capable and his scrambling out of the pocket was not yet common. The ESPN commentators reported the cause of his draft dive was unconfirmed "drug use" *leaked* during the draft process. Don Shula had no tolerance for drug use so I was concerned until Miami confirmed the drug rumors were without merit.

[RiverDog]

Interesting previous post RD...I rarely followed any Seahawk news upon arriving in Washington...mainly due to the job that brought me over here from Pa. I didn't warm to the Hawks until the ESPN 2010 Draft coverage. I loved watching the "drama" of trying to guess draft selections and had followed ESPN draft coverage for quite some time before...I was watching it when Dan Marino kept falling/dropping in the draft as expectations had him projected much higher. I was a Dolphin "addict" at that time so when Miami selected him I knew it wasn't need...many fans felt David Woodley was capable and his scrambling out of the pocket was not yet common. The ESPN commentators reported the cause of his draft dive was unconfirmed "drug use" *leaked* during the draft process. Don Shula had no tolerance for drug use so I was concerned until Miami confirmed the drug rumors were without merit.

Thanks, tarlhawk. FYI I was once a Dolphin fan, too, prior to 1976, that is.

Here's an article that describes the helmet TD:

Trailing, 31-26, Vinny Testaverde is ruled to have scored a touchdown on a fourth down sneak with 27 seconds left even though it was clear that his bare hand crossed the goal line, while the ball was short. The Jets would win the game 32-31 to improve to 9-4 on the season. The play would be a catalyst for the NFL bringing back instant replay for the 1999 season.

The NFL first introduced replay review in 1986. The system at the time had an official monitoring from above and buzzing down to give a play second look. The system was flawed and unpopular among game officials. After six seasons, the NFL eliminated replay and went back to allowing the human element to decide games. At the same time, cameras and technology were improving showing more clearly mistakes that changed games, leading momentum for replay to return, though owners could not come up with a system that the rules committee could approve before the 1998 season.

Things were looking up for the New York Jets as they entered Week 14 against the Seattle Seahawks. Just two years removed from a 1-15 season, the Jets under Coach Bill Parcells, were in contention for a division title. Coming into the season, Parcells’ second with the team the Jets were the only franchise, other than the recently added Baltimore Ravens and Jacksonville Jaguars not to have won a division title since the 1970 merger. Following a 9-7 season in 1997, the Jets got off to a slow start with Glenn Foley at quarterback, losing their first two games. Making the switch to Vinny Testaverde in Week 3, the Jets began to turn their season around. After dropping to 2-3, the Jets hit their stride, winning six of seven games to climb to the top of the division at 8-4 as they prepared to host the Seattle Seahawks at Giants Stadium.

Things were more up and down, for the Seahawks led by Dennis Erickson. Sitting at 6-6, the Seahawks coach was clearly on the hot seat sitting at 6-6. Seattle had not made the playoffs since 1987 and frustration had begun to set in as they were going into a new era with plans for a new stadium in place. It was widely reported that he was given an ultimatum that the Seahawks must make the playoffs or a coaching change would be made.

The Jets had driven down to the Seahawks goal line, but once again had trouble finishing the drive. After short runs by Leon Johnson and Curtis Martin, and an incomplete pass to Keyshawn Johnson, the Jets faced fourth and goal from the Seattle five, needing to score or the game was over. The unexpected play was a sneak by the at times lumbering Testaverde and the play failed as he was tackled short of the goal line. However, diving for the end zone, the officials saw Testaverde’s bare hand and helmet cross the goal line and called it a touchdown even though the ball in his left hand was nearly a yard short. The Seahawks were beside themselves and replay showed just how egregious the call was, but with no replay review the Jets line up for two and failed, but suddenly had a 32-31 lead with 27 seconds left. Adding insult to injury, Shawn Springs was flagged 15 yards for unsportsmanlike conduct.

The Jets would go on to finish the season with a record of 12-4, winning their first division title since 1969 before the full merger brought all AFL teams under the NFL umbrella. The Jets would go on to play in the AFC Championship Game, losing to the Denver Broncos 23-10. The Seahawks meanwhile finished 8-8, as Dennis Erickson was fired after four seasons. With the Seahawks snatching Mike Holmgren away from Green Bay.

https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/116 ... -touchdown

Longtime diehards like myself and Cbob don't need any memory refreshers, but being that you're a 'naturalized' 12, I thought it might be beneficial.

[tarlhawk]

https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/1165115/on-this-date-in-sports-december-6-1998-the-phantom-touchdown
Longtime diehards like myself and Cbob don't need any memory refreshers, but being that you're a 'naturalized' 12, I thought it might be beneficial.

Thanks that was a good read.

[RiverDog]

Thanks that was a good read.

No problem, my friend!

I don't care what the Cheeseheads say about Fail Mary, the Vinnie Testaverde helmet touchdown was by far the single worst, most consequential call in the history of the league.

[Hawktawk]

I remember the Vinnie Helmet TD well . It was the wrong call. The Golden Hail Mary was a correct call, better than half the crap the officials do today. Was it worse than the no call vs Dee Jay? It was the right call...
As for that bad call ending Dennis tenure and it was such a blessing in disguise we dont know that.

Holmgren won the division backing in with a 9-7 record with Ericson's players, his quarterback and didn't win a playoff game for 6 years. Then the Super bowl if you want to talk about bad calls but he melted down, lost his cool , made it worse. Its not possible to prove what would or wouldn't have happened with a coach who had built his team that should have been 10-6 and in the playoffs. Once you're in who knows. I never see missing the playoffs as a good thing based on a bad call. Holmgren had a nice little run but we don't know what we dont know.

[jshawaii22]

https://www.mansionglobal.com/articles/hawaiian-estate-of-late-microsoft-co-founder-paul-allen-sells-for-record-43-million-01627587780?reflink=outbrain_celebrity-topint_00c180b1434802fef6187e082498de6109&dicbo=v1-89c2268560cd231118d0483f03403f06-00f0464d4134b070538283435e8e7fd395-miytsytemqywcllcgzrdgljugq2wellcgyzwillegq2tcmbwmmzgenbygq

probably too busy counting all those millions....

[NorthHawk]

It sounds like she’s methodically selling her brothers assets.
Makes one wonder when the Seahawks turn will come, if something isn’t already in the works.

[RiverDog]

I remember the Vinnie Helmet TD well . It was the wrong call. The Golden Hail Mary was a correct call, better than half the crap the officials do today. Was it worse than the no call vs Dee Jay? It was the right call...
As for that bad call ending Dennis tenure and it was such a blessing in disguise we dont know that.

The egregious part of the Fail Mary wasn't the TD call, it was the no call on Golden Tate's obvious pass interference as he literally shoved one of the Packers defenders to the ground, clearing the way for him to make his leap.

Holmgren won the division backing in with a 9-7 record with Ericson's players, his quarterback and didn't win a playoff game for 6 years. Then the Super bowl if you want to talk about bad calls but he melted down, lost his cool , made it worse. Its not possible to prove what would or wouldn't have happened with a coach who had built his team that should have been 10-6 and in the playoffs. Once you're in who knows. I never see missing the playoffs as a good thing based on a bad call. Holmgren had a nice little run but we don't know what we dont know.

In all likelihood, missing the playoffs was a blessing in disguise. Erickson was a horrible NFL coach, another example of a good or very good college coach flopping in the NFL. He went on to coach the Niners and didn't do squat there, and any hope that he would have ultimately succeeded here is nothing but pure fantasy. Holmgren was hands down the best coach on the market that season.

[Hawktawk]

You never know what would have happened had Ericsson made the postseason . The Seattle Seahawks got screwed out of the playoffs by a terrible call . I don’t celebrate that . We have no idea how ericsons team would have done had they gotten in . Holmgren didn’t win a playoff game for 6 years . He never won a road playoff game . He had a nice run. Arguably our second best coach but I’ll never celebrate missing the playoffs due to a bad call.

[RiverDog]

You never know what would have happened had Ericsson made the postseason . The Seattle Seahawks got screwed out of the playoffs by a terrible call . I don’t celebrate that . We have no idea how ericsons team would have done had they gotten in . Holmgren didn’t win a playoff game for 6 years . He never won a road playoff game . He had a nice run. Arguably our second best coach but I’ll never celebrate missing the playoffs due to a bad call.

Of course, we don't know what would or wouldn't have happened had Erickson remained coach. But we DO know that Holmgren put together the 2nd most successful era of Seahawks football in franchise history, so it's a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush sort of thing when determining if Erickson's misfortune was beneficial for us in the long run.

In retrospect, I would have much rather have lost that game than I would to go back in a time machine and change the call then take our chances with Erickson, who never did anything either before or after the helmet touchdown.

[NorthHawk]

The egregious part of the Fail Mary wasn't the TD call, it was the no call on Golden Tate's obvious pass interference as he literally shoved one of the Packers defenders to the ground, clearing the way for him to make his leap.

With Hail Mary's the referees let a mosh pit form and rarely throw a flag even with obvious interference.
In each one of them a PI could be called - probably a whole bunch of them if the letter of the rule was enforced.
The game would continue on with an untimed down until they let the play go. So I'm OK with non calls on that play.

[NorthHawk]

I note that not only does Jodi Allen have a lot of decisions to make with regard to the Seahawks but she is also dealing with a lot of questions with the Portland Trailblazers. Both teams are wretched this year. Neither has made any progress for some years now and this year both have slipped several rungs down on the latter. So this lady has a lot on her mind I imagine.

It occurred to me that if she is going to eventually sell the team as per Paul's wishes she would want to have as few problems as possible before doing so for maximum price.
That should mean a decision will be made quickly. A dysfunctional team won't get the best price.
So the question will become what's better for the best selling price? Is it an old coach stuck in his ways or is it an established Franchise QB? Which is harder to find?
A new owner will probably want to put his own mgmt in place, but not having to find a top tier QB would be a bonus and attract potential coaches and GMs.
So from a business perspective re: selling the team, I would think she would keep Wilson over Carroll. It just makes too much sense.

[Old but Slow]

That's a good point. But, whether or not she is planning to sell, it is to her advantage to have a productive product. As a good businesswoman she very likely has someone on her management team talking to as many football people as possible to get a handle on what the strengths and weaknesses are. It takes information to make good decisions.

I have no inside info, as I have had no contact with Jodi or her family, although I am rather tight with Bill, Warren, and that electric car guy (I can't ever remember his name so I just call him Bud).

[Hawktawk]

Of course, we don't know what would or wouldn't have happened had Erickson remained coach. But we DO know that Holmgren put together the 2nd most successful era of Seahawks football in franchise history, so it's a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush sort of thing when determining if Erickson's misfortune was beneficial for us in the long run.

In retrospect, I would have much rather have lost that game than I would to go back in a time machine and change the call then take our chances with Erickson, who never did anything either before or after the helmet touchdown.[/quote]


I never want to lose any game or ever miss the playoffs. I remember everyone screaming when the 6-9 Hawks faced the 7-8 Rams with Sam Bradford for the NFC worst toilet bowl. Everyone on the chat line but a few of us wanted us to lose for draft picks. Touchdown Jesus Whitehurst was under center and threw one really nice ball across the field on a rope from about the 20 to BMW for an ugly win....

What happened the next week? Come on kids? BEASTQUAKE. The day the Pete Carroll tenure actually began. One of the most amazing games ever and still my only playoff game live.
I NEVER EVER ACCEPT MY TEAM LOSING AS A GOOD THING. It was our misfortune too, the fans starved for playoff football, we just dont know how much. Kitna played like 15 years, won a lot of games. You never know. Ericson has a Natty. Frisco has no bearing on what he might have been able to do here. If your in the tournament you got a shot period. The Giants have one as a 9-7 team and they beat the GOAT.

And I dont hold Holmgren in as high a regard as you. One SB loss and 4 total playoff wins in 10 years ?Meh. Didn't win his first postseason game for 6 years. went 0-4 on the road in the playoffs and had a dreadful record on the east coast or any good road opponent. I have Knox even with him at a minimum.
That's with 2 hall of fame linemen and a league MVP RB. He was an eyelash from being fired when Ruskell was brought in and if people want to bag on PC for bad drafts etc. maybe check out Holmy's steaming pile . Both PC and Walrus as GMs hurt themselves greatly as coaches. Honestly I think Holmgren hurt himself more considering what he already had. Imagine Russ behind that line....
And of course for all we know Ericson might have gotten in and even won a game or 2 and still been fired. He was on the ropes as you say. Frankly I think Jodi is a little sharper and more ruthless than she gets credit for and PA was no shrinking violet when it was time to pull the ripcord either. We dont know. Some we will never know and some we will probably know shortly after the next game.

[RiverDog]

I'm not sure what it was that I said that I held Holmgren in such high regard as you are suggesting that I am. I simply said that he ushered in the 2nd most successful era of Seahawk football, which I feel is a no brainer, slam dunk assessment. The only era that was even close was Chuck Knox's, and he never made it to the SB nor did he ever have a 13 win season or a season where he had HFA.

I don't go into a game 'hoping' that we'll lose. It's a counter intuitive thought. But when looking at a season such as Erickson's '98 Hawks, it's lucky for us that fate chose that particular path at that point in history. It's like breaking up with a girlfriend that you thought meant the world to you only to find the true love of your life.

[Hawktawk]

Knox went to the AFC title game his first year after sweeping the raiders in the regular season , blew away their wild card opponent then beat the Miami Dolphins in their house . That’s 2 more road playoff wins in his first year that Holmgren in 10 years . Holmgren had 1 team people had to fear in 10 seasons . It was a great one for sure but his last year was one of the worst coaching jobs I ever saw . I have them even . Knox teams were hard nosed physical mentally tough teams . They played in the AFC west when it was probably the toughest in the league with Fouts and Elway and a raiders team at the top of their game . KC was always a house of horror . Holmgren won 2 playoff games his 6th season after cruising through the NFC worst . He won one each of the next 2 years . We got Screwed in XL and couldn’t overcome it but other then that ? Not too impressive .

[RiverDog]

Knox went to the AFC title game his first year after sweeping the raiders in the regular season , blew away their wild card opponent then beat the Miami Dolphins in their house . That’s 2 more road playoff wins in his first year that Holmgren in 10 years . Holmgren had 1 team people had to fear in 10 seasons . It was a great one for sure but his last year was one of the worst coaching jobs I ever saw . I have them even . Knox teams were hard nosed physical mentally tough teams . They played in the AFC west when it was probably the toughest in the league with Fouts and Elway and a raiders team at the top of their game . KC was always a house of horror . Holmgren won 2 playoff games his 6th season after cruising through the NFC worst . He won one each of the next 2 years . We got Screwed in XL and couldn’t overcome it but other then that ? Not too impressive .

The problem is that Knox never improved on the results of those Patera "holdovers" that he had in his first year. He was on a level plane for his entire career with us just like Pete Carroll is now, always fielding .500ish teams that can't go deep into the playoffs. Knox NEVER won a big game, either with us or the other teams he coached. He was the Marty Schottenheimer of the 80's.

[Hawktawk]

If the point is winning it all which at this point is all I care about then obviously both the men played second fiddle to Carroll. Right now his results aren’t acceptable .
Holmgren and Carroll are similar in many ways . Both brought a high profile , classy articulate guys . Both had a fundamental belief in a system . Holmgrens was the pure WCO with a run game . Carroll was stifling pressure defense with a single high safety and ball control smash mouth offense with a quick strike option . Both men have been hurt by being unable to adjust their strategies to their people due to injury . Holmgren in 2008 with literally no wideouts left insisting on throwing the ball , Hass winds up injured , just never adjusted . Same for Pete as the LOB fizzled .


All 3 were great coaches here but Knox had a saying “ play the hand you’re dealt “ when Knox lost Curt Warner in a heap tripping over the 40 in the 84 season opener he did just that . As a guy who believed that if you passed 3 things could happen and 2 were bad he gave the ball to Krieg to the tune of 32 touchdown passes and a 12-4 record his second season after going to the AFC championship his first season playing smash mouth . That’s a coach . A great coach . He was a blue collar guy, supported the players strike , didn’t want to field a scab team but had to put one together in a couple of days . They went 2-1 with zero NFLtalent on the roster against far more talented rosters . When he got Largent and Fredd Young back for the third game I think they broke a few records Love me some Knox .

[RiverDog]

If the point is winning it all which at this point is all I care about then obviously both the men played second fiddle to Carroll. Right now his results aren’t acceptable .
Holmgren and Carroll are similar in many ways . Both brought a high profile , classy articulate guys . Both had a fundamental belief in a system . Holmgrens was the pure WCO with a run game . Carroll was stifling pressure defense with a single high safety and ball control smash mouth offense with a quick strike option . Both men have been hurt by being unable to adjust their strategies to their people due to injury . Holmgren in 2008 with literally no wideouts left insisting on throwing the ball , Hass winds up injured , just never adjusted . Same for Pete as the LOB fizzled .


All 3 were great coaches here but Knox had a saying “ play the hand you’re dealt “ when Knox lost Curt Warner in a heap tripping over the 40 in the 84 season opener he did just that . As a guy who believed that if you passed 3 things could happen and 2 were bad he gave the ball to Krieg to the tune of 32 touchdown passes and a 12-4 record his second season after going to the AFC championship his first season playing smash mouth . That’s a coach . A great coach . He was a blue collar guy, supported the players strike , didn’t want to field a scab team but had to put one together in a couple of days . They went 2-1 with zero NFLtalent on the roster against far more talented rosters . When he got Largent and Fredd Young back for the third game I think they broke a few records Love me some Knox .

I like Knox, too, but that wasn't the point. The point that we were arguing about was which was the more successful.

Knox and Holmgren have relatively similar records:

Chuck Knox, coached 9 seasons, regular season record: 80-63 (.559), 4 playoff appearances, playoff record 3-4 (.429),

Mike Holmgren, coached 10 seasons, regular season record: 86-74 (.541), 6 playoff appearances, playoff record 4-6 (.400)

I decided not to include divisional championships as they wouldn't have been comparable since the league underwent a realignment in 2002, Holmgren's 4th season with the Hawks. However, it's worth noting that Holmgren won 6 NFC West titles including 5 straight. He also won a pre-realignment AFC West title. Chuck Knox has just the 1 AFC West divisional title.

The big difference is Hoimgren's 2005 season where he went 13-3, a franchise record that still stands, won home field advantage, won the conference championship, and our first ever Super Bowl appearance. Knox got to the conference championship in just one season, his first, and lost.

Unless you want to start applying tangible factors that can't be quantified, it's clear that Holmgren's tenure was more successful than Knox's.