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Seems that the media sees it as an either/or as much as we do. This article looks at exactly that and makes good points on both sides. On the front office and the "we can't win because Wilson is eating up too much cap" nonsense:

Tampa Bay with Brady, Kansas City with Mahomes, and New Orleans with Drew Brees certainly had (and have) no issues maintaining a championship-caliber roster with a quarterback subsuming more than 20% of the salary cap. Patrick Mahomes, Dak Prescott and Josh Allen all absorb a higher percentage of their team’s cap sheet, on average, than Wilson.

It is not a question of Seattle being able to sign, draft or trade for talent that would fit under the cap to support Wilson. It’s about who the Seahawks have opted to sign, draft and trade for.

On Wilson:

Wilson’s game has always been built around the deep ball. He takes the easy guff underneath and launches delightful darts down the field to move the Seahawks offense along. This year, as defenses vacate the middle and focus on the perimeter, his effectiveness has tumbled. His adjusted completion percentage (which removes throwaways) ranks 23rd among eligible quarterbacks this season on throws of 20 yards or more, per Pro Football Focus. That puts him behind Davis Mills, Tua Tagovailoa, Carson Wentz and a fossilized Ben Roethlisberger, hardly a who’s who of Favre-ian gunslingers.

As much as the offense needed to adapt and grow coming into the year, so did its pilot. He did not. Wilson then got hurt. Before the Seahawks could blink, the season had slipped away.

On Carroll:

Carroll departing seems the most likely outcome. Whether or not Wilson’s season-long slump is indicative of anything longer-term, the Seahawks want nothing to do with the annual quarterback merry-go-round. Moving on from Carroll is likely the team’s best shot to convince the quarterback to stick around long-term.

Carroll deserves credit for his willingness to re-energize the franchise, for trying to evolve rather than getting stuck in his own fuddy-duddy ways. This isn’t the story of a coach who stayed too long, or an organization that went down thinking its way would always be The Way. This is a team that paired a talented quarterback with an excellent coach and an extraordinary roster and ran through the league like few before. Two remain true, yet the final and most important part, the core of the roster, has sunk to depressing levels of incompetence. Now, they need a reboot.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/wilson-car ... 46919.html

It's an interesting PoV, but it's just the view of one writer.
I think amongst our posters, we've hit on most of his points (with some agreeing and other not so much) but in essence, he's probably right.
I agree with his point about Cap hits for QB's and I've said a couple of times that Wilson's Cap hit shouldn't be a problem as KC has 2 $100M
contracts and they were still able to attract Free Agents and replace 4 of the 5 starters on their OL. So Cap space really isn't that much of
an issue with one large contract. As far as Wagner goes, if we want to keep him, we could probably renegotiate an extension with a voidable
year added but more cash up front. That could bring down the Cap hit and give the team an out for a still good player.
However, one of the points touched on is the lack of overall talent on this team. With the loss of draft picks it's become dangerously thin and
I think we see that today.

Good points from North Hawk...and this question of drastic change always follows a losing season...we're just not used to it...its panic mode...not CRISIS. Neither move HAS to be made...and speculation serves no real purpose except for a writer to "boost" his readers. Both men are highly competitive and share a desire to come out on top. Their relationship together is only known by them and so far has remained private. Others choose to read into words said from both as an "indicator" of true intention. Has Russell ever said he can't perform well under Pete? Did Pete ever allude of seeking a trade because he can't deal with Russell's retorts. NO and NO. Whatever the source of these speculations...the illusive Russell Wilson "Camp"...or why our GM accepts trade proposals...starting as saying it would take 3 1rst RD picks at a minimum to even discuss the issue further reveals the team is not willing to trade him. A GM and coach who cares about his QB will "consider" to honor his wishes and Pete and Schneider are always are open to outside requests that actually help the team...but the team's minimum asking price is meant to show the team has no interest in trading RW. When RW settles into accepting being a pocket passer with quicker release times ( He was an excellent pocket passer when forced by a bum ankle in 2016) then you'll see more O-Line investment. IMO his current play style of extending plays warrants a "good" O-line but not a "great" O-Line.

Recent news of possible ankle injury...
Russell Wilson has struggled significantly since his return from a finger injury, and it sounds like there may be another physical issue holding him back. Seattle Seahawks coach Pete Carroll admitted that Wilson tweaked his ankle during Tuesday’s loss to the Los Angeles Rams.

last time he suffered an ankle injury:
Sep 11, 2016 NFL Pedal Ankle (high) Sprain Grade 3 Wilson's ankle injury lingered for most of the season.
Sep 25, 2016 NFL Knee MCL Sprain Grade 2 Wilson didn't miss a game with his MCL injury.

It’s not panic mode to me. I, along with others have seen this coming for years.
We’ve just sunk to a realistic low this year with little hope of improving unless
they get back to focusing on the draft but I don’t think Pete has the stomach for
an extensive rebuild. He’s pretty much said as much recently.

Interesting. Not entirely sure I agree with all of it. you didn't paste the part that was super critical of Russell's demands for change . Russ really didn't want to leave but if they wanted to trade him hed play these places conveniently leaked . Sure Russ Or their observations about it really not mattering which of the 3 OCs calls the play. They mention that Russell throwing into the middle was meme like this year with only 26 ATTEMPTS over 10 yards in the air all year. By contrast they point out Tom brady AVERAGES 7 such attempts per game!!! Might explain 46% completions on 3rd down.

I was listening to Hass on Brock and Salk yesterday and he had an amazing observation. He said that the TD pass to DK was the only completion to travel more than 5 yards in the air in the entire first half. I'm not sure about the second half but I know on the ill fated 4th down Russ threw to Lockett at the line of scrimmage on 3rd and 15 and Lock got 14.5 and of course we couldn't get the .5.Hass quoted Holmgren on the 14 yard sack" if you try something off script it better work". Another cool thing he pointed out was then on the one read option where Russ kept the had a pitch option for Eskridge who was shadowing Wilson. Russ kept it for 3 But Hass said it was a walk in standing up TD if he pitches. I agree with Russ not pitching the ball there in that weather but a cool wrinkle
I love Russell Wilson and I always will. Hes put the team on his back many many times, created memories, played the perfect game in 48 and drove us to the 1 in 49. Fastest man to 100 wins. Very beneficent with charities. Hes earned the fame and celebrity and a right to call his own shot if he wants to leave. His highlight reel is an hour long probably.

But I said it before the season. My biggest question about the team was Russ.
I said after his injury and before he returned I didn't have the answer to my question . I think I do now.
Russ is afraid of making mistakes. Hes not handling high pressure situations like he always did. 3rd and 4th down, end of games, over the middle , in playoff games.

I think hes battled a lack of confidence since the terrible end of 49. He hid it well, battled it and used his athleticism and his huge accurate arm to make plays and burn teams with his legs for years after. It was a winning formula till midseason last season when he threw 3 picks in a needless loss to AZ. Sure PC reined him in. But did the picks mess with Russell's mind? He averaged 1 a game the rest of the season. He tragically lost his life coach this year and maybe psychologically Russ needs a counselor. I get that.
But its different. Hes not running much. Hass said Russell's legs are what make him an élite QB and if he cant or wont run hes now just a GOOD QB.
"whether Wilsons slump is temporary or MORE LONG TERM Seattle has no interest in a QB carousel" . If hes in a long term slump or decline why not move on while he has value? Even if hes merely good what do we do contract wise? Would he restructure? I think I know the answer But whether his problems are temporary or permanent is the 35 million dollar question for ANY franchise. All the other QBs listed are performing at a very high level for playoff bound super bowl contenders. I hope Russ plays his best ball these last 2 games. I have a feeling it may be the last 2 in the uniform.

you didn't paste the part that was super critical of Russell's demands for change

You mean I didn't cherry pick just the bad about Russ? I didn't for Pete either ... it's a long article, that's why I linked it. I tried to be as fair in it's representative content about both Pete and Russ with what I did quote. Most importantly the conclusions drawn therein.

NorthHawk wrote:It’s not panic mode to me. I, along with others have seen this coming for years.
We’ve just sunk to a realistic low this year with little hope of improving unless
they get back to focusing on the draft but I don’t think Pete has the stomach for
an extensive rebuild. He’s pretty much said as much recently.

Well stated again. I think re-focusing on the draft and being smart about the use of our cap space...has been in good hands with our GM/VPOFO duo. This upcoming draft in 2022 and our roll-over Cap Space as well as an expectant boost in caps starting next year will enable our guys to work some magic.

2019 and 2020 drafts were still excellent drafts and soon to be in their 3rd year where you get a better feel for their "fit". 2021 although limited to 3 picks only don't reflect any quick "misses" for the individuals drafted. I might lean to the skeptic ranks if this Draft and off-season are bungled...but I highly doubt I'll be "let down" by John Schneider and Pete Carrol as VP of Football Operations.

Some players want to play here but their asking price were no doubt out of reach...perhaps once we sign our own player extensions we can get a difference maker from the FA market. I too think Bobby W. will be asked to consider a renegotiated front loaded bonus contract. He does pay dividends as having the mind of a Def Coordinator (but on the field) due to his extensive play recognition which still benefits Jordyn Brooks and others on our defense.

Hawktawk wrote:. They mention that Russell throwing into the middle was meme like this year with only 26 ATTEMPTS over 10 yards in the air all year. By contrast they point out Tom brady AVERAGES 7 such attempts per game!!! Might explain 46% completions on 3rd down.
But I said it before the season. My biggest question about the team was Russ.
I said after his injury and before he returned I didn't have the answer to my question . I think I do now.

Russ is afraid of making mistakes. Hes not handling high pressure situations like he always did. 3rd and 4th down, end of games, over the middle , in playoff games.

Hes not running much. Hass said Russell's legs are what make him an élite QB and if he cant or wont run hes now just a GOOD QB.
"whether Wilsons slump is temporary or MORE LONG TERM Seattle has no interest in a QB carousel" .

Yes the middle is a big aid ...as a short route has quicker release and less burden on the O-Line to sustain their pass blocking. Because of RW's stature he needs the O-Line to hold open passing lanes for him to see...that is why some of the biggest connections with Lockett have been deeper diagonal cross routes...the further from the line of scrimmage the easier for him to see and time his passes.

Russ is not "afraid" of making mistakes...its discipline fostered by confidence that allows the timing/accuracy of his throws into coverage. I really attribute something is draining on his confidence level...our losing season has pressurized his snap decisions to throw when his confidence is waining and he hurries his throw. It doesn't matter if that pressurized sapping is caused by an aggressive opponent drawing near or is self-induced...the output is not typical for him and ratchets up the pressure to outperform his self realized problems.

Hass can say its his legs that makes him elite vice just good...but his reluctance is probably an over reaction to being knocked out of a starting lineup due to a major injury and still in the thralls of getting back fully on the "horse" with confidence again. Chris Carson wasn't being himself earlier this year and it was later learned he was trying to work through an injury...but until that was known we speculated on why he wasn't playing with the reckless abandon we were used to. RW's legs do make him more akin to being Dangeruss but I attribute his eliteness to getting consistent winning results...especially in close games. Opponents fear his resolve to make things happen when there is still time on the clock (even with only a minute)...that type of respect is due to his brimming confidence. He believes in himself to rise above the occasion. This year due to injury or outside personal real life concerns...that brimming confidence is lacking. Russell is elite because he inspires those around him when the chips are down...and then delivers. This year has robbed some of that inspiring magic (for whatever reasons) and I'm hoping he regains that confidence...that's what separates him from being just "good"

On Carroll:



PC his harder to figure out than Russ. You really cant argue with the results till recently. When he was hired I saw him as an older Jim Mora, rah rah college guy fleeing a scandal plagued program for the big bucks. His first season started out with some decent results then the team started getting blown out. I was not impressed and nobody on this board was either. Hass was on his last legs physically. Whitehurst squeaked out the season ender as the 7-9 sea chickens won the NFC Worst .

Then my son and I attended Beastquake. Tickets were dirt cheap and we were on the 50 4 rows off the field for the game and at exact camera angle for the historic run. That was the day the PC era began, the day I realized how great a coach he was, the optimism, the enthusiasm, ability to motivate. And the sharp football mind.

Their drafting early was ridiculous and they suffer now in comparison despite having some nice pieces on this team that they stole. You cant predict injury. Adams was an awful decision obviously. They have missed badly on picks but hit on some player many teams would covet which if he stays healthy and keeps putting up big plays for 2 more weeks will include Penney. Still not the value obviously but clearly the talent evaluation was there.

Its not quite Russ and 21 stiffs. Id say they are mid pack on talent overall with some standouts and some below average players. With the injuries to the secondary they displayed some excellent depth. This is a defense that should be better next year.

My knocks on PC are being wishy washy when dealing with players and coaches, Pete speak, afraid to offend anyone. The guy with the most rings will call out anyone. I remember him yanking Tom Brady out of a blowout loss at Arrowhead and I've never seen Brady much angrier and I think they stopped Seattle on the 1 that year. I know it was a super bowl winning year.

The Rah Rah has worn off with PC. As the SI piece points out players began to believe there was favoritism with certain players, high draft picks such as Ifedi that were penalty machines, sack machines playing ahead of better players. Ill be done saying it but the finger episode was the last straw in his loosie goosy approach. It hurt the team and had to have made Russell's recovery harder possibly losing us close games the next 2 weeks. Coaches like any boss need to have some balls.
I would put Marshawn Lynch in the category during the 2015 season. His mom was tweeting crap about Wilson. Then he gets a hernia and disappears to California to rehab for 8 weeks. When he returns hes handed the starting job in the WC, took first team snaps all week and refused to get on the bus for the 50 below game in Minny. Christine Michael battled his tail off, outplayed AP and Lynch gets the start vs Carolina where he and Russ immediately hook up a pick 6 to Keuchly. He was completely ineffective and was irrelevant by Halftime in a 31-0 game. Again LOVE ME SOME BEAST. He should have sat. It couldn't have been worse.
Hasslebeck was more critical of the defense than the offense for a lack of teamwork and intensity. He said he saw things on the field the PC he played for wouldnt put up with. He cited the strip fumble recovered by the Bears and pointed out we had 1 guy dive for the ball and several others standing and watching. He referred to the defensive backs standing around such as the Bears first drive where the guy is laying on his back and Wags tiptoes in and missed him and the DBs were just watching as he picked up a first down. He said PC had a saying "pigpile" Its not the same.

My last issue with PC with his in game management and clock management. I can hardly remember a game we didn't burn a timeout to save a penalty. This season alone i can think of numerous times we stalled well across midfield and he passed up mid 50 yard FG attempts and had Dixon punt rather than go on 4th. A lack of faith in your team and your QB not to mention the kicker. Hes been bad but distance isn't his problem and if your gonna let him miss from 40 why not 55?

I've heard PC critics say the game has passed him by. I dont think that's true at all. Hes just always had a tendency to outthink himself at critical moments sometimes. From going for it on 4th and 2 vs Texas with Reggie Bush on the sidelines to multiple 4th down attempts in chip shot FG distance in a playoff loss by a FG to Atlanta in the 2012 divisional where rookie Russ broke the rookie playoff passing record set by Sammy Baugh in 1937 by 50 yards, 377 yards. Burnt timeouts prevented a possible TD before the half. An ice TO saved Atlanta on a missed kick
49
Does Russ want another year here? If he doesn't does PC want another year? He doesn't sound like hes ready to retire.
Id replace both. They are 2 of my all time favorite Hawks, the best ever at their position in team history. I think Pete's energy level is slipping, his standards are slipping. Hes too risk averse in todays analytical NFL. As much as his talent level helped there was a smash mouth hustling efficient unit on both sides of the ball when we were winning all the time . I dont trust him to start over cause hes not the guy that took over any more than Russell is.

I think Russ wants out. I dont think hes really too close to his teammates. Their body language shows frustration. My guess is hes angry about the criticism and booing.
I think something is slipping and it wont get better. Besides there is no talk of an extension so do you keep a guy with significant value now into his contract year when he may fall off a cliff? Even if hes playing well if you think hes a 500 lb. gorilla now just wait till hes got a new coach to break it.If he wants to go let him go. Get the haul now, spend it wisely.
I think its time. If nothing change's I hope I'm wrong about all of i because I dont want to watch another year like this.

When Pete came in we tossed the likes of Hass and Lofa, and just about everyone else of note with them. It took that level of change to move the team forward. At this point, I don't have an issue with blowing the team up and starting over again by trading Bobby and Russ (at least) and letting our aging LT go, among changes that need to be made. This, along with Pete and JS to get an all new coaching staff. I have no idea either who would replace PC/JS, but it needs to be done.
If it takes a year or too, like it did with Pete, then so be it. Maybe a couple years of high draft picks will help us.
Someday we can build statues and put them in the Ring of Honor, but this team is not going anywhere and has been on a downward slope since that INT in the SB and no matter what happened (almost) a decade ago, it's over.

Pete by Far!! Wilson would be much harder to replace.