Trade Metcalf

[RiverDog]

I've pretty much had it with DK Metcalf. His failure to immediately step out of bounds after catching a pass on the sidelines at the end of regulation last night was one of the biggest HUA moments I've seen in a long time. Even if he hadn't have fumbled, it was a hugely moronic move.

We're obviously in for a minimum of a couple years of rebuilding regardless of what happens to Pete and Russell as we have multiple needs on both sides of the ball. Outside of Russ, Metcalf is our most valuable asset and will command a huge salary increase that we're not going to want to pay, so I say trade him now before the November deadline, get some draft capital, and save ourselves a huge headache.

[NorthHawk]

I think that's more than a little reactionary. It is frustrating to see those things happen, but few players are the total pkg. and most
fit in the middle somewhere. I think on average, he brings more than he doesn't and helps just by his presence the other WR's.

[RiverDog]

I think that's more than a little reactionary. It is frustrating to see those things happen, but few players are the total pkg. and most
fit in the middle somewhere. I think on average, he brings more than he doesn't and helps just by his presence the other WR's.

I agree, but if we go into a total rebuild, how much is an All Pro WR going to do for us? We need draft choices, and Metcalf is one of the few players on our roster that has any kind of value.

[c_hawkbob]

You don't make a team better by trading it's best first contract players.

[RiverDog]

You don't make a team better by trading it's best first contract players.

It's about the position as much as it is the player. Good wide receivers are a dime a dozen. If we're going to a rebuild mode, I can't see building around a wide receiver, especially one that seems to be a bit of a diva. He's going to command a HUGE salary, one that we may not want to pay if we're in a rebuild mode. His trade value isn't going to be any higher than it is today.

[NorthHawk]

So would Russell be inclined to re-sign if they traded away one of his best weapons?
I think that would mean we would be in a starting QB search pretty quickly along with all of the other positions.
This year and maybe next doesn't seem to have a large volume of star QB projects, so we would have to enter the FA market, and probably overpay.
Pulling one string could cause the whole ball of yarn to unravel.

[RiverDog]

So would Russell be inclined to re-sign if they traded away one of his best weapons? I think that would mean we would be in a starting QB search pretty quickly along with all of the other positions. This year and maybe next doesn't seem to have a large volume of star QB projects, so we would have to enter the FA market, and probably overpay. Pulling one string could cause the whole ball of yarn to unravel.

That's a good point. With his no trade clause, the ball is in Russell's court. If he wants to be part of this rebuild, then he's going to have to deal with the moves our FO chooses to make, which could include things like trading his weapons. If not, then let's trade him.

We can't have our cake and eat it, too. This team has a serious lack of talent, especially defensively, and with our draft picks in such bad shape, there's not much hope for improvement unless we make some tough decisions, like trading Metcalf. We're back to where we were in 2010, the only exception being that we have a franchise QB and fewer draft choices. We need draft picks.

[Aseahawkfan]

You're never in full rebuild mode while you have a franchise QB. You don't trade one of his best weapons and get better.

I don't expect to be in full rebuild mode. I expect to be in mild rebuild mode where we trade out of the coach and possibly the GM who hasn't managed roster maintenance well, but you keep the franchise QB and elite players while bringing a new coach with the energy and ideas to do a fast rebuild.

Our problem is Pete's shiny toy disease. This not using the draft and trading high draft picks for players that don't perform and basically rental players. And the lack of ability to rebuild the defense.

Offense is solid right now other than RB and O-line could use some work. But we're set at WR and QB for a while.

We can compete immediately with some smarter roster management.

[RiverDog]

You're never in full rebuild mode while you have a franchise QB. You don't trade one of his best weapons and get better.

I don't expect to be in full rebuild mode. I expect to be in mild rebuild mode where we trade out of the coach and possibly the GM who hasn't managed roster maintenance well, but you keep the franchise QB and elite players while bringing a new coach with the energy and ideas to do a fast rebuild.

Our problem is Pete's shiny toy disease. This not using the draft and trading high draft picks for players that don't perform and basically rental players. And the lack of ability to rebuild the defense.

Offense is solid right now other than RB and O-line could use some work. But we're set at WR and QB for a while.

We can compete immediately with some smarter roster management.

Keep in mind that Metcalf's contract comes up after next season, same year Russell's cap hit tops $40 million, and he's going to want a boat load. And what happens if Russell wants out after this season? It's not unrealistic to think that he might want to be traded.

Like I said earlier, it's as much about the position as it is the player. You don't like tying up a whole bunch of money in a safety, and for good reason. I also don't think it's a good plan to tie up a lot of money in a wide receiver. How many championships has Odell Beckham earned for his teams? Terrell Owens? Megatron? Those are the types of players I think about when I look at Metcalf. I take a look at recent championship teams and I don't see a lot of big name WR's on them. There's better places to spend our money, especially when we have a franchise quarterback eating up 15% of our cap.

[Hawktawk]

I think I read where you said “ good receivers are a dime a dozen “. DK is better than good . He’s still doing stupid stuff which is maddening but he’s a man among boys when he uses his body like he can . I was as upset at him breaking short of the sticks on an early 3rd down then trying to get to the sticks running East and West as the total brain cramp . Geno had the last brain cramp of the night so it really didn’t matter in the end . But no
I’m not trading a moose like DK right now.

[Aseahawkfan]

Keep in mind that Metcalf's contract comes up after next season, same year Russell's cap hit tops $40 million, and he's going to want a boat load. And what happens if Russell wants out after this season? It's not unrealistic to think that he might want to be traded.

Like I said earlier, it's as much about the position as it is the player. You don't like tying up a whole bunch of money in a safety, and for good reason. I also don't think it's a good plan to tie up a lot of money in a wide receiver. How many championships has Odell Beckham earned for his teams? Terrell Owens? Megatron? Those are the types of players I think about when I look at Metcalf. I take a look at recent championship teams and I don't see a lot of big name WR's on them. There's better places to spend our money, especially when we have a franchise quarterback eating up 15% of our cap.

We'll cross that bridge when we come to it. Right now Metcalf is elite. He's going to get paid probably 20 mil a year. The cap is going up. All contracts are likely to rise, which is why it is becoming increasingly important not to mismanage the draft as Pete and John seem to have been doing in recent years.

[trents]

However they do it, the Hawks need to focus on improving the quality of the offensive and defensive lines. Neither are getting any consistent push and it puts pressure on the other components to compensate.

[Hawktawk]

Yeah batted passes are on the o line as much as the qb. If they keep working and sustain their block a d lineman can’t just jump up in the air with his hands up.

[obiken]

I've pretty much had it with DK Metcalf. His failure to immediately step out of bounds after catching a pass on the sidelines at the end of regulation last night was one of the biggest HUA moments I've seen in a long time. Even if he hadn't have fumbled, it was a hugely moronic move.

We're obviously in for a minimum of a couple years of rebuilding regardless of what happens to Pete and Russell as we have multiple needs on both sides of the ball. Outside of Russ, Metcalf is our most valuable asset and will command a huge salary increase that we're not going to want to pay, so I say trade him now before the November deadline, get some draft capital, and save ourselves a huge headache.

IF we keep RW River we have to keep DK. I am with you, he is a total moron. I am getting sick of the dropped passes, fumbles, and hyper aggressive crap. Its like he is building his own legacy and not for the team. Right now he would worth maybe a 2nd round at best, if we wait he will be worthless. I am all in on a total tear down with just RW left. BW is too old, and too expensive, JA is a bust, and we have too many guys making too much, or will be soon. Moreover, if you wait a year or two, its will get 2X as expensive.

[RiverDog]

IF we keep RW River we have to keep DK. I am with you, he is a total moron. I am getting sick of the dropped passes, fumbles, and hyper aggressive crap. Its like he is building his own legacy and not for the team. Right now he would worth maybe a 2nd round at best, if we wait he will be worthless. I am all in on a total tear down with just RW left. BW is too old, and too expensive, JA is a bust, and we have too many guys making too much, or will be soon. Moreover, if you wait a year or two, its will get 2X as expensive.

Metcalf would be worth a 2nd rounder at best? I beg to differ. The Falcons got a 2nd round pick from the Titans for Julio Jones, a 32 year old wide receiver at the end of his career. Metcalf is just 23 years old and is one of the best young receivers in the game. He's going to net at least a #1 pick.

In 2019, the Giants traded WR Odell Beckam Jr. to the Browns for the #17 overall, a 3rd round pick, the #95 overall, plus Jabrill Peppers, a 2017 first round pick. We might not get that kind of capital, but we'd get a helluva lot more than a 2nd rounder. I wouldn't even pick up the phone for a 2nd rounder.

You're the one that is adverse to signing players to big contracts. Better make sure you have plenty of nitro on hand when Metcalf resigns.

[Hawktawk]

As I said in the other thread Geno completed passes to ten people which is quite remarkable . But DK is his bell cow and they really had some nice throws and catches . Geno has plenty of arm to get it out there . I think they will only improve their connection next 2 games . If you have any hope of retaining Russ you don’t get rid of DK. Having re watched the final pass I can see he’s trying to just run over the guys and win the game or else improve field position feeling he could still outmuscle the guys and get out if he needed to . Not safe or probably smart but we won’t ever know because he fumbled .

[RiverDog]

As I said in the other thread Geno completed passes to ten people which is quite remarkable . But DK is his bell cow and they really had some nice throws and catches . Geno has plenty of arm to get it out there . I think they will only improve their connection next 2 games . If you have any hope of retaining Russ you don’t get rid of DK. Having re watched the final pass I can see he’s trying to just run over the guys and win the game or else improve field position feeling he could still outmuscle the guys and get out if he needed to . Not safe or probably smart but we won’t ever know because he fumbled .

In two years, Metcalf is going to cost us $25M+ before salary inflation. The following year, assuming he's still with us, Russell's contract comes due. We could easily end up dedicating 25% or more of our salary cap to two players. Regardless of what my personal opinion of the player is, I simply do not feel that is a smart allocation of a limited resource to pay a WR that kind of money. It is not a critical position. I look around at championship teams and I don't see a lot of high paid WR's. If we're not going to be willing to fork over that kind of money, then it would be better to trade him in the near future and get some draft capital.

Metcalf's failure to step out of bounds was a huge, bonehead mistake that nearly ended the game in regulation and might have if not for the replay booth inexplicitly stopping the clock for a review of what was obviously a catch, which is why Mike Tomlin was going ballistic. Even if he doesn't fumble, there's the risk that he gets tackled in bounds. The object wasn't to get a first down, it was to get into field goal position and leave as much time on the clock as possible. Had Metcalf stepped out of bounds, we would have had time for another play and either a shot at the end zone or an additional 10 yards or so for a more makeable FG attempt. Now he's dissing a gold jacket receiver in Shannon Sharpe due to his criticism of Metcalf's brain fart.

[HawkDawg]

I'm sure I've said this before, but DK is the Dennis Rodman of the NFL. Good physical player, but a prima donna that constantly makes arrogant/bonehead mistakes. Sure he can make plays at times...but the showboating, sideline tantrums, fights, etc. Couldn't imagine what he's like in the locker room. Worst case scenario, imagine a Cam to Metcalf TD!?!? The score would be nice but I'd feel disgusted. Lost respect for D.K. last season and it isn't getting better.

[trents]

Good wide receivers are a dime a dozen.

I can't agree with that. Anyway, Metcalf has the potential for not being just good but great. He just needs to learn to check his ego and use his head consistently.

You don't make a team better by trading it's best first contract players.

I can agree with that.

[tarlhawk]

Not sure (because I don't have a dvr anymore) but I don't think he "had control" of the catch till turning his body up field. If he had immediately gone out of bounds with the catch it might have been ruled out of bounds before gaining control...

[RiverDog]

Not sure (because I don't have a dvr anymore) but I don't think he "had control" of the catch till turning his body up field. If he had immediately gone out of bounds with the catch it might have been ruled out of bounds before gaining control...

Yea, my DVR recording failed, too. But Metcalf didn't just turn his body upfield, he lowered his head and tried to get upfield:

With Seattle out of time outs and the clock running down inside 10 seconds, Metcalf caught a pass at the Steelers 27-yard line. Then, oddly, he stopped. He could have taken one step to his left out of bounds at the 25 to halt the clock with 14 seconds remaining. Instead, he kept running, down the sidelines well inside field-goal range, to challenge oncoming James Pierre. Metcalf tried to run over the Steelers cornerback. Pierre punched the ball from Metcalf’s left arm.

Read more at: https://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/n ... rylink=cpy

The criticism of Metcalf's failure to step out of bounds is universal. Here's part of his duel with Shannon Sharpe, which further highlights Metcalf's immaturity and/or ignorance of who's who in the football hierarchy:

"Stop questioning me lil boy,” Metcalf tweeted in response to Sharpe, who wondered why Metcalf was trying to “play the hero.”

“Nothing to question,” Sharpe tweeted back. “That was ‘DUMB ASS’ play and your pride won’t let you admit it. ‘You’ can’t question anything I’ve done. Pray your resume will be as complete as mine, PRAY. Enjoy the rest of your day.”

Metcalf apparently didn’t know Sharpe’s credentials. Or he was too tired and ticked to care when he posted another response to Sharpe, at 10:53 a.m. Monday: “From the looks of it i can wipe my (emoji of a smiling pile of excrement) with yours! Continue to gossip you washed up wanna be.”

Metcalf escalated things, calling Sharpe — a Pro Football Hall of Famer — a “washed up wanna be.”

https://nypost.com/2021/10/18/dk-metcal ... ter-barbs/

[tarlhawk]

I was basing my response just because the refs wanted to review the play...the camera angle didn't help...so I thought maybe DK didn't have total control and they were thinking of calling it incomplete. He was definitely acting as if he was thinking he was going to break away...bad decision...maybe the frustration of losing even the close games is tempting guys to try to do too much. This is only his third season so was it a lack of football IQ or frustration? This is a bad season but because of that likelihood...the games won't have as much of a cardiac impact as it would if we were only one game back of the Cards.

[RiverDog]

I was basing my response just because the refs wanted to review the play...the camera angle didn't help...so I thought maybe DK didn't have total control and they were thinking of calling it incomplete. He was definitely acting as if he was thinking he was going to break away...bad decision...maybe the frustration of losing even the close games is tempting guys to try to do too much. This is only his third season so was it a lack of football IQ or frustration? This is a bad season but because of that likelihood...the games won't have as much of a cardiac impact as it would if we were only one game back of the Cards.

It was clearly a catch, which is why Mike Tomlin was so hot at the refs. Had they not stopped play, there would have been just one second left on the clock, meaning that the Hawks would have had to rush the FG team onto the field then snap the ball at the very instant the whistle blew and still connect on a 43 yarder. Stopping the play gave us an extra 2 seconds, allowing Geno to spike the ball and get set up for the attempt.

I'm having a hard time rationalizing Metcalf's actions. I don't buy the football IQ excuse. Only his 3rd season? Only? And what did he do before he signed with the Hawks?

Teams at every level practice 2 minute drills all the time. In addition, every person with even a basic knowledge of the game knows what the object is, ie to get into FG range and conserve time. The only possible explanation I can come up with is that he either assumed that we still had a timeout or that he thought he was 10 yard further upfield than he was, but the problem with that excuse is that the play before, we had taken our last timeout, so he had to have known. Coupled with the Steelers timeout right after ours and before the play, several minutes had transpired between plays so it's not like he got caught up in the heat of the moment and lost track of the game situation.

Metcalf's decision to turn upfield was inexplicable, and frankly I'm shocked that some very intelligent posters in here are defending his decision. Shannon Sharpe is exactly right: Metcalf is a dumb ass.

[tarlhawk]

Clock awareness is not often on display in college football...I am not excusing bad actions...I don't think he is stupid but trying to make something that wasn't there makes me think these losses piling up may make frustration an issue. Russel is more mature so his equivalent would be to force a pass into tight coverage...but he resists that temptation by convincing himself to throw the ball away and live for another play (the next play). DK's maturity displayed is no where approaching Russels so it was selfish to try to bust loose...the fumble saved us from that bad decision.

[RiverDog]

Clock awareness is not often on display in college football

You don't need to have played the game to know how it is timed. Even a grade schooler knows that each team gets 3 timeouts per half, that the clock stops when a receiver that catches a pass steps out of bounds, that it keeps running if a runner is tackled in bounds, and so on. It's not rocket science.

Honestly, you guys, your continued defense of Metcalf's decision not to step out of bounds and instead continue downfield is not showing your best side. We shouldn't even be arguing about this. It's Football 101.

[Aseahawkfan]

He should have stepped out of bounds.

I still don't want to trade him. He's an elite receiver about to get a second contract. I'd rather watch him flourish here.

[RiverDog]

He should have stepped out of bounds.

Thank you.

[tarlhawk]

"so it was selfish to try to bust loose...the fumble saved us from that bad decision." This was my conclusion to my last post...I was trying to account for what makes a person do something wrong when they are being counted on to do the right thing...I never said anything defending a poor decision or that he was right. You see bad decisions made often in the heat of a game...an offensive lineman sees the ball come loose from his RB and tries to pick it up to advance it instead of pouncing on it to ensure possession is maintained...PC even took a potshot at RW when he didnt check down to an open man coming across but threw it downfield knowing Tyler Lockett has a magic quality at times. RW response...I want to win.

[RiverDog]

"You see bad decisions made often in the heat of a game"

I thought about the "heat of the game" as an explanation for Metcalf's bad decision but I can't accept it as an excuse. On the previous play, the Hawks burned their final timeout to stop the clock at 14 seconds. As we were lining up for the next play, the Steelers called a timeout to get their defense set. That's a long interlude between plays that would allow players to take some long, deep breaths, a squirt of Gatorade, collect their thoughts and get themselves mentally prepared for what is coming next.

Unless Metcalf is hindered by an extremely short attention span, it's extremely unlikely that he could have been distracted or have his thoughts overcome by adrenaline.

I don't care how anyone wants to spin it, Metcalf screwed up, bigtime. He's either stupid or selfish.

[NorthHawk]

Well, we have a young guy who considers himself an Alpha Male who is a WR which tends to attract Diva's and it seems he's affected by opponents comments
to the point of distraction at times. The question in my mind is does his rare physical traits and ability to make the big play overcome the occasional brain
fart? I think it does as most of the best WRs have that bit of selfish part in them. There are a few exceptions of course, but by and large those that achieve
the most also have a few warts that blemish their play.

[RiverDog]

Well, we have a young guy who considers himself an Alpha Male who is a WR which tends to attract Diva's and it seems he's affected by opponents comments to the point of distraction at times. The question in my mind is does his rare physical traits and ability to make the big play overcome the occasional brain fart? I think it does as most of the best WRs have that bit of selfish part in them. There are a few exceptions of course, but by and large those that achieve the most also have a few warts that blemish their play.

Metcalf's mental issues isn't the primary reason why I think we should be exploring a trade. Once his current contract is up, after the 2022 season, he's going to be a free agent and will obviously be demanding top dollar. The highest paid WR in the league is currently DeAndre Hopkins at $27.5 million. Metcalf is likely going to be asking for that much or more. In addition, the following year, in 2023, Russell's contract will be expiring. We could easily be dedicating at least 25% of our salary cap to two players. I don't think that's a formula for success, especially if we are embarking on a major rebuild.

The other part of that equation is our absence of draft choices. The Adams trade has put us behind the 8 ball. We're obviously more than a player or two from being a SB contender, so we're going to need to use the draft to replenish our roster. Outside of Russell, Metcalf is the only player on our roster that could fetch multiple high picks.

[c_hawkbob]

We've got two more years of him as a first contract bargain, that's a ton to just give up on. Makes no sense to me at all. Occasional bonehead mistake notwithstanding.

[RiverDog]

We've got two more years of him as a first contract bargain, that's a ton to just give up on. Makes no sense to me at all. Occasional bonehead mistake notwithstanding.

Good point, but if we're not going to be willing to pay top dollar for him, it would make sense to trade him before he hits his contract year.

We'll have to see where we stand at the end of the season, but IMO if we're sticking with Russell, or rather, if he's sticking with us, we aren't going to be able to afford both the highest paid QB and the highest paid WR.

[Hawktawk]

If he’s still being a dunce it might suppress his market . Or not. Belichick got moss in line . Here’s the deal . Trade or no I recwatched that play and I respect what DK did for several reasons . For one thing most receivers can’t wait to get out of bounds or trip over the 40 going over the middle . DK punishes secondary people and I’ve seen him extend plays many times and also drag players into the endzone . On the play in question it looks like he assessed the situation and thought he might be able to stay on the sidelines and maybe run over the defenders and score . It’s notable the safety punched at the ball instead of trying to tackle metcalf . Brilliant play just like watt all night . But the greater point is that the dude had no intention of trying to tackle DK and had the punch failed I think he might have housed it or at least gotten close enough for an easier field goal: d for decision making . A plus for effort

T

[RiverDog]

If he’s still being a dunce it might suppress his market . Or not. Belichick got moss in line . Here’s the deal . Trade or no I recwatched that play and I respect what DK did for several reasons . For one thing most receivers can’t wait to get out of bounds or trip over the 40 going over the middle . DK punishes secondary people and I’ve seen him extend plays many times and also drag players into the endzone . On the play in question it looks like he assessed the situation and thought he might be able to stay on the sidelines and maybe run over the defenders and score . It’s notable the safety punched at the ball instead of trying to tackle metcalf . Brilliant play just like watt all night . But the greater point is that the dude had no intention of trying to tackle DK and had the punch failed I think he might have housed it or at least gotten close enough for an easier field goal: d for decision making . A plus for effort

T

There's no way Metcalf or anyone else is going to "house it" running down the sideline from the 25 yard line against a prevent D. Period.

[Hawktawk]

Looked to
Me in replay like a guy right behind him and one beside him who
Punched the ball instead of wrapping up. Had the punch failed dk had a pretty good chance as 25 yards fir a 4.3 guy goes quick. He thought he saw a seam in my opinion. Not a safe play but watching Geno fumble it away I wish the ball had. It been punched so we could have maybe won in regulation .

[RiverDog]

Looked to
Me in replay like a guy right behind him and one beside him who
Punched the ball instead of wrapping up. Had the punch failed dk had a pretty good chance as 25 yards fir a 4.3 guy goes quick. He thought he saw a seam in my opinion. Not a safe play but watching Geno fumble it away I wish the ball had. It been punched so we could have maybe won in regulation .

Oh, horsepucky! Unless you can see the width of the field back to the goal line and see the entire Steeler defense, which television replay doesn't show, there is no way that you can come to that conclusion.

It was a stupid move. It's been universally described as "bizarre" and "inexplicable" and I challenge you to find a quote from any observer that states otherwise. Only amongst the Seahawk fan base is it not being characterized as a poor decision.

[TriCitySam]

The fatal flaw is our inability to draft and/or develop an OL. With one we can run and pass, even with an average QB. Without it, we can't do jack squat. I would be OK with a Metcalf trade if we could use that capital to correct our line (JS hasn't shown he can).....and I think RW would make that trade as well, he doesn't want to be the most sacked QB of all time and doesn't want to be standing on the sideline watching Geno. There are others we can throw to.

[RiverDog]

The fatal flaw is our inability to draft and/or develop an OL. With one we can run and pass, even with an average QB. Without it, we can't do jack squat. I would be OK with a Metcalf trade if we could use that capital to correct our line (JS hasn't shown he can).....and I think RW would make that trade as well, he doesn't want to be the most sacked QB of all time and doesn't want to be standing on the sideline watching Geno. There are others we can throw to.

My feelings exactly. Good wide receivers are a dime a dozen. It makes no sense to pay one of them 10-12% of our salary cap.

[TriCitySam]

We'll, great ones are hard to find, but as we've experienced, you can be ver successful with a good possession WR as well...and of course our long forgotten tight ends. An improved OL not just improves our run pass numbers , but our D. Without it, we've averaged 56 plays a game to out opponents 72. Big impact on our O and D.