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I see where C. Carson is listed as "day to day" with a neck injury. Wish we could find a talented back that isn't as brittle as the ones we have now. Penny has been injured most all of his NFL career and Carson a lot of it. Now I do realize that running backs probably take more punishment than any other player position, but still . . .

trents wrote:I see where C. Carson is listed as "day to day" with a neck injury. Wish we could find a talented back that isn't as brittle as the ones we have now. Penny has been injured most all of his NFL career and Carson a lot of it. Now I do realize that running backs probably take more punishment than any other player position, but still . . .

I haven't seen the numbers or percentages, but around the league, I see a lot of running backs on the injured list.

We were spoiled by Marshawn Lynch.

We could have drafted Nick Chubb and/or Jonathan Taylor, but took Penny instead of Chubb and
passed by Taylor.

NorthHawk wrote:We could have drafted Nick Chubb and/or Jonathan Taylor, but took Penny instead of Chubb and
passed by Taylor.

We took Penny as a complimentary back and for special teams (KR/PR)...not as a replacement back because Carson was the feature back. Chubb would have been another feature back which we were already satisfied with. If Carson is playing with a neck stinger...then he is trying to play with a condition that can flare up into something very painful. As tough as Kam Chancellor was...he was done in by a neck injury. Penny gave no signs of becoming injury bitten...same as CJ Procise...is it frustrating for a fan? Sure...but this is a sport where RB especially can get hurt above or below the waist...Sequon Barkley is an example of a highly drafted impact RB who gets injured off and on lately.

Penny played one year in a sub par football division relative to Chubb and Taylor.
He was also expected to start frequently as Carson has never played a full season in either college
or the NFL. With Chubb or Taylor, Carson would become the complementary RB which would help
him avoid the injuries he gets being the bell cow. As it is, Penny can’t take the punishment of the
NFL even though he was injury free in college (probably because he didn’t play much before his
final year). That injuries are common speaks to the need of drafting top quality players who can
step in and provide near seem less transition, not a drop off in productivity. Pete alluded to the
idea that it was a mistake to pass by Chubb some time ago.

True...Chubb was a known draft commodity during the draft and has done quite well so he has delivered as promised...so I can only think we were still looking for a ST breakaway threat (such as Lockett once provided) and still be a complimentary RB yet different...speed to get around the edge (similar to D' Eskridge in what little we have seen of him). When healthy Penny has shown he is the kind of break away back to "take it to the house" ...RB's still provide good value Rds 2-5 (draft expectations).

If we dropped Penny some other team would pick him up, he would become durable and he would become a star who would torment us when we played his team. That's the way these things seem to work.

tarlhawk wrote:True...Chubb was a known draft commodity during the draft and has done quite well so he has delivered as promised...so I can only think we were still looking for a ST breakaway threat (such as Lockett once provided) and still be a complimentary RB yet different...speed to get around the edge (similar to D' Eskridge in what little we have seen of him). When healthy Penny has shown he is the kind of break away back to "take it to the house" ...RB's still provide good value Rds 2-5 (draft expectations).

Actually Chubb was one of the fastest RBs in that draft plus he has the power that Pete desires for running inside. He was the perfect prototype RB in the mold of Lynch that Pete
always wanted. But they whiffed. A simple stupid move of not taking the obvious choice over someone else. And that's a pattern with some of their drafting.

tarlhawk wrote:True...Chubb was a known draft commodity during the draft and has done quite well so he has delivered as promised...so I can only think we were still looking for a ST breakaway threat (such as Lockett once provided) and still be a complimentary RB yet different...speed to get around the edge (similar to D' Eskridge in what little we have seen of him). When healthy Penny has shown he is the kind of break away back to "take it to the house" ...RB's still provide good value Rds 2-5 (draft expectations).

NorthHawk wrote:Actually Chubb was one of the fastest RBs in that draft plus he has the power that Pete desires for running inside. He was the perfect prototype RB in the mold of Lynch that Pete always wanted. But they whiffed. A simple stupid move of not taking the obvious choice over someone else. And that's a pattern with some of their drafting.

Yeah, Pete and John seem to delight at going off script and away from conventional wisdom. It almost seems like a badge of honor to them, that they have their own, unique way of evaluating players. We could have had Fletcher Cox in 2012 but we traded back a couple spots and selected Bruce Irvin, a player projected to go no higher than the 3rd round and who although not a complete bust, never lived up to his first round billing. We didn't even pick up his option year.

They also passed by TJ Watt (trade down) in favor of Malik McDowell. Again, a gamble that didn't work.

NorthHawk wrote:They also passed by TJ Watt (trade down) in favor of Malik McDowell. Again, a gamble that didn't work.

I see what you're saying but without having even a day of camp out of McDowell let alone a single defensive snap in a game...that doesn't represent a gamble that didn't pay off...his ATV accident was tragic. McDowell had very high skills...there was no gamble there. The earliest picks in a draft are high stakes...to where "leaked info" is a method of dropping a player you prefer till he's within striking range of moving up and being taken. The 1983 draft boasted six possible QBs worthy of 1rst round picks. Miami had no interest in a QB...they were pleased with David Woodley...a scrambling type QB when it wasn't popular. After the first two QB were taken...the draft announcers expressed surprise that Marino was still available. Dan Marino continued to tumble as more QB came off the board. (to be continued)

NorthHawk wrote:They also passed by TJ Watt (trade down) in favor of Malik McDowell. Again, a gamble that didn't work.

tarlhawk wrote:I see what you're saying but without having even a day of camp out of McDowell let alone a single defensive snap in a game...that doesn't represent a gamble that didn't pay off...his ATV accident was tragic. McDowell had very high skills...there was no gamble there.

I'm with tarlhawk on this one. Although the McDowell pick was off script and a perfect example of Pete and JS doing things their own way, I can't use it as an example. That ATV accident could have happened to TJ Watt just as easily as it did to McDowell.

If I remember correctly they traded down to the 2nd round for McDowell past Watt.
Even if McDowell never got hurt he probably wouldn't be the player Watt is. And that's my point. Under this regime we've regularly passed by very good players
for others that have a big upside and a big downside - and we've often lost that gamble.
Remember that McDowell had red flags all around him. His play fell off in college, he was said to have attitude problems. He was far from a solid pick.

NorthHawk wrote:If I remember correctly they traded down to the 2nd round for McDowell past Watt.
Even if McDowell never got hurt he probably wouldn't be the player Watt is. And that's my point. Under this regime we've regularly passed by very good players
for others that have a big upside and a big downside - and we've often lost that gamble.
Remember that McDowell had red flags all around him. His play fell off in college, he was said to have attitude problems. He was far from a solid pick.

I agree, but we're still making an assumption with McDowell vs. players that had a chance but couldn't stick, like Irvin, Ifedi, and Penny. We really can't include him in the discussion.

It was another missed opportunity to upgrade the talent. We took a gamble and lost. Again.

On another note, I read Pete's comment on Carson's injury as 'long term' whatever that means.

NorthHawk wrote:It was another missed opportunity to upgrade the talent. We took a gamble and lost. Again.

On another note, I read Pete's comment on Carson's injury as 'long term' whatever that means.

Except that the gamble didn't fail due to poor player evaluation. It failed because of an unpredictable, random event.

NorthHawk wrote:We could have drafted Nick Chubb and/or Jonathan Taylor, but took Penny instead of Chubb and
passed by Taylor.

Are you kidding me? We passed on Nick Chubb and took Penny!!! PC should be fired for that alone, geez!!

Looks like Carson has been ruled out of the Steelers game. Must be pretty serious as he's had a mini bye to recover:

The Seahawks will head to Pittsburgh without their starting quarterback or their top running back in the lineup.

Chris Carson has been ruled out with the neck injury that also kept him from playing against the Rams in Week Five. Alex Collins, DeeJay Dallas, and Travis Homer handled running back duties with Carson out of the lineup.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... -steelers/

Penny apparently is still out, too.

Maybe Josh Johnson as a practice squad call-up?

I've already written off this year as far as playoff expectations, let's go ahead and see what we got down roster a little.

c_hawkbob wrote:I've already written off this year as far as playoff expectations, let's go ahead and see what we got down roster a little.

Wow, that's quite a change for you, bro. And here I thought that I was the forum's Debbie Downer. Time for a "2-3 is a Disaster" thread?

I'm not so naïve as to think that our chances of making the playoffs are even remotely good especially when considering this historically inept defense of ours, but I haven't written us off, either. IMO Collins can replace most of what Carson gives us and who know what Geno can do as a starter. We're entering a bit of a soft spot in our schedule where our next 3 opponents have had nearly as many issues to deal with as we have, then hit our bye week before we travel to the frozen tundra.

I'm not sure what to expect this year...too many weird things happening. Our corners seem set...at least with DJ...Sydney may get a push from Tre Brown once practices heat up during the week. Irregardless of starters we don't have the ability to play man to man consistently and get out of our strictly zone that has no disguise element and relies on good underneath coverage. I would like to see more heavy nickel use...single high safety in Diggs and both Blair and Adams in the box...with Adams coming up to the scrimmage line while Blair stays back in TE/RB coverage or RB assassin mode. Both Adams and Blair are hard hitters and built like LB...I think Marquise Blair is healthy again and is the key to unlocking our safeties. Ugo Amadi for conventional nickel packages and Ryan Neal in dime or bring Neal in for a spark/catalyst. For the heavy nickel you rotate an interior lineman out to leave Jordyn Brooks in at weak side LB. On the line either Poona Ford/Al woods positioned at NT with Darryl Williams at one DE and either Dunlap/Mayowa from the other. Bobby Wagner roams the middle. Your fresh rotation for the line would be Kerry Hyder/Alton Robinson/Rasheem Green/LJ Collier with whoever is the "hot hand" getting extra snaps.

RiverDog wrote:
Wow, that's quite a change for you, bro. And here I thought that I was the forum's Debbie Downer. Time for a "2-3 is a Disaster" thread?

I'm not so naïve as to think that our chances of making the playoffs are even remotely good especially when considering this historically inept defense of ours, but I haven't written us off, either. IMO Collins can replace most of what Carson gives us and who know what Geno can do as a starter. We're entering a bit of a soft spot in our schedule where our next 3 opponents have had nearly as many issues to deal with as we have, then hit our bye week before we travel to the frozen tundra.

C'est la vive. I'm not upset about it, just pragmatic.

c_hawkbob wrote:C'est la vive. I'm not upset about it, just pragmatic.

Yea, I hear ya, man. I'm right there with you. It wouldn't be surprising for someone like Obi or myself to toss in the towel this early, after barely 1/4 of the season, but for someone that has been as dedicated of a supporter and defender of this current regime as you have been, your "pragmatism" is a sure sign that we've hit, or about to hit, rock bottom in terms of our confidence as a fan base.

And we're not alone:

Russell Wlison’s injury, a defense that is an absolute disorganized mess, and no first-round pick next season has left Seattle Seahawks fans with little confidence in the direction of this franchise. I haven’t put up the graphic all season but we are down to a paltry 16%, and that’s with the low-point coming after the defeat against the Minnesota Vikings in Week 3.

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2021/10/16/2 ... the-toilet

I thought I heard PC mention this neck issue has been present since game one...its something Chris was trying to work with...but his reckless style is what sets him apart...so being slow and hesitant was taking away his effectiveness anyway. I have heard other players mention a neck stinger is hard to play with...especially if it "flares up" but I'm clueless as to the actual nature of the injury.

Carson is out, on IR. Collins didn't practice on Thursday or Friday due to a groin muscle strain. Rashaad Penny was cleared to practice just yesterday.

https://twitter.com/TomPelissero/status ... 61p2575261

Looks like we'll be seeing a lot of DJ Dallas and Travis Homer.

Guard Damien Lewis hasn't practiced this week, either. Here's the full injury report for both teams:

https://www.seahawks.com/team/injury-report/

Rashard Penney is healthy . I just read an amazing obscure fact about first round backs . There’s like 5 out of the hundreds chosen who never made an NFL start and so far Penney is one of them . The guy is a China doll for sure , our next Prosise . Both guys are really big fast multi talented backs that absolutely can’t stay healthy . But I recall Penney was getting more snaps from Carson a couple years back and showed an explosive top gear with speed to house it from anywhere on the field . Then the devastating injury , not much last year and injured in something like 5 carries this year . I wonder with Collins dinged up if they start him just to get that horrific stat off his and Seattle FO resume . In hindsight a terrible pick with the players they passed up . Either way I like Collins and Dee Jay . Carson is proving to be better than Penny at staying on the field but not by much lately . Maybe we should move on from both Penney and Carson . The way Collins has looked the deal they gave Carson looks wasted . It was interesting that even with their top 2 backs out the Seahawks had an extremely balanced effective run game last week with Collins And Dee Jay averaging 5 ypc and homer gashing Pittsburgh on a long run on a sprint draw . If they recreate that on a weekly basis they can stay in some games .

Hawktawk wrote:. Either way I like Collins and Dee Jay . The way Collins has looked the deal they gave Carson looks wasted .

This is from a previous post :

No one was happier to see us resign Alex Collins on 11/4/20 for our practice squad. His practice squad contract expired 1/18/21 and he was signed 2/24/21. His background?
Illustrious college career...splitting time his Fr and So years for Arkansas he still had back to back 1000 yd+ seasons (Fr 5.4 avg 1026 Yds 4 TD / So 5.4 avg 1100 Yds 12 TD) For his play he was named the 2013 SEC Freshman of the Year and in his final college year as a Jr ( 5.8 avg 1577 Yds 20 TD) he was full time starter as the RB he had been splitting time with got injured.
Collins became only the third player in SEC history to rush for 1,000 plus yards in three seasons, joining Herschel Walker and Darren McFadden. He also was a semi-finalist for Doak Award as best runner in College his Jr. year. Some other semi-finalists: Dalvin Cook (Fla State) Leonard Fournette (LSU) Derrick Henry (Alabama) Ezekiel Elliott (Ohio State) Christian McCaffrey (Stanford) and C.J. Procise (Notre Dame -taken in 3rd round by us of same draft (2016) as Collins (5th Rd).
Pre-draft measurables HT: 5' 10" WT: 217 40 yd dash: 4.59 sec Bench Press: 18 Reps Arm length : 30 1/4" and Hand width: 9 1/4". Collins as our 5th rd selection in 2016 draft was the 13th RB drafted.
Signed rookie contract 5/6/16 (4yrs 2.2 Million w/ 184,000 signing bonus) He finished camp as our #4 RB behind Christian Michaels/Thomas Rawls/CJ Procise...saw limited play. With no clear role in 2017 (Eddie Lacy/Thomas Rawls/CJ Procise) he was waived 9/2/17.
Glad to have him back!!

Yeah I recall your post . He actually looks borderline elite at times with his elusiveness and quickness, ability in the passing game and also tough in traffic . I think returning kicks is smart for Dee Jay to get touches and learn the speed of the game . He’s looked better all the time . I’m rooting for Penney to go off though . Kind of like Harvin in the super bowl after being injured so much . Wasted pick for sure but if he hasn’t lost it Penney is a big fast back that can catch the ball .

Given Penny's injury history, I would be shocked if he got more than 5-7 touches vs. the Saints. The smart move would be to give him a soft landing, work him in slowly. This is Game 7 of a 17 game season.

Pete said yesterday that Collins looked good and is ready to play. More than likely, it will be a running back by committee.

Looks like Carson is done for the year:

Chris Carson's 2021 season will soon be finished.

The running back is expected to have season-ending neck surgery and will remain on injured reserve, NFL Network Insider Ian Rapoport reported. Coach Pete Carroll later confirmed the prognosis.

Carson has been on injured reserve since the middle of October, appearing in just four games before being sidelined by his neck injury. The hope was that the time away would allow Carson to recover well enough to return at some point -- the RB was designated to return to practice on Nov. 10 -- but Friday's news ends his chances.

https://www.nfl.com/news/seahawks-rb-ch ... ck-surgery

Might as well shut him down and get him healthy. This season is lost anyway.

He should retire . Physical running back with a neck injury . His Heath is more important .

Hawktawk wrote:He should retire . Physical running back with a neck injury . His Heath is more important .

I guess it depends on what his doctors tell him, but I do know that you don't want to mess around with neck injuries. If I'm Chris Carson, I'd be thinking long and hard about calling it a career.