Geno

[Hawktawk]

Since we will be watching the first QB to have taken snaps in a real time game situation in 10 seasons(hard to believe its gone so fast) I did a little research on Geno and here's a few interesting tidbits.

His only 2 years as a starter were with the woeful Jets . It also bears remembering this was an arrogant gangster wanna be with a posse, a divisive force in the locker room, lazy and unmotivated who wound up humiliated with a broken jaw at the hands of a teammate he had welched on an appearance and donation at a charity fundraiser.

Still there are interesting and some eye popping stats good and bad those 2 years. The worst was 3 picks on 8 passes vs the Bills leading to an early hook. The best was opening the 2014 season vs the dolphins ON THE ROAD when he threw for 358 yards, 3 TDs , no picks and a perfect passer rating.It is his only 300 yard game although he had many in the mid 200 range. He produced on the ground almost every start and has neared 50 yards in a game on 2 occasions.

His first starting year he threw 13 td passes and 20 something picks. Second year was 13-13 and a season QBR of 96.6. He completed 2 69 yard TD throws and a 74 yarder in his 2 seasons starting. He completed 29 passes over 20 yards one year and 44 over 20 yards those 2 seasons. He obviously has a big arm.

He has quite a few 2 pick games and a couple 3 pick games with only 3 games in 2014 that were clean out of 14 starts. That seems to have been his biggest achilles heel early in his career but who knows what he had to throw to, what type of line and coach (sacked 29 times and then 43 times). And again, very immature.

Best of all he is 6'3", mobile with a big arm, very low mileage for a 9 year vet. Based on his performance the other night he's obviously learned how to grind on film and put in the time and still has the timing to put the ball on a receiver, handle the ball with sleight in the run game, look people off especially on the devastating screens on the first drive. He seemed to read the field beautifully. Might have been guys open underneath but he found them and put in on him. There were guy's open underneath before he came in the game BTW. I've had discussions on this forum with people who discount his performance based on the Rams defensive strategy. Pundits are calling it "surgical". in after the game comments he said "I've been around the league long enough to know you have to be ready"

He was. I have no illusions of grandeur and know very well what could happen but I at least have hope we dont have a placeholder to get us a high draft pick. Geno can put some pressure on defenses .

[tarlhawk]

Excellent research...his poise was reassuring and he has plenty of weapons that were gathered for Russel to work with...he's done well in our camps and has looked good in pre-season games. He could benefit from some increased running production while transitioning from back-up to starter. It will be interesting to see his " real baptism under fire" as a team (Steelers) dedicates its pre-game plan to stopping Gino.

[NorthHawk]

He played for the Jets when they were just as bad as they are today, so maybe he's a bit like Darnold in that a change
in circumstance and coaching might bring out the best in him, or at least show he's better than what we saw in NY.
All he has to be is competent, not a superstar and the team could do reasonably well. That's one of the keys- playing
within his abilities and not try to be Russell Wilson. I'm hoping he can do that.

[RiverDog]

Yeah, Hawktalk, good research.

I. too, have a lot of respect for Geno. He's always played well in preseason and didn't do anything last Thursday that would make one pause. I don't think for a minute that he's our QB of the future if we were to part ways with Russell, but he might be able to fill the gap until we get our next franchise QB. 6 weeks will be plenty of time to make a good evaluation of him in the event Russell does decide to move on.

[Hawktawk]

Yeah, Hawktalk, good research.

I. too, have a lot of respect for Geno. He's always played well in preseason and didn't do anything last Thursday that would make one pause. I don't think for a minute that he's our QB of the future if we were to part ways with Russell, but he might be able to fill the gap until we get our next franchise QB. 6 weeks will be plenty of time to make a good evaluation of him in the event Russell does decide to move on.

What if he runs the table or goes say 5-1 or something? On paper it couldn't come at a better time in the schedule. But say he does. Does that change the calculation about whether he's a good NFL starter? say its 8 weeks and he goes 6-2? What if he wins them all?

I guess of all the things I discovered checking out this guy the thing that sticks out the most is that 2014 opener in Miami. You run through the names of backups weve mentioned I rather doubt they have many 3 TD 358 yard 37 point perfect QBR outbursts on their stat line . I think Foles had some ridiculous 7 TD performance or something but he's also a SB mvp now so...
Point being you cant put up that kind of number with dumb luck. That's talent and a day he had his head in the game. Its the type of potential that got him taken high second round. Now its coupled with maturity. Lets see what happens.

As for Russ short of a miracle comeback and a Lombardi Russ is gone no matter what else should happen.

[RiverDog]

What if he (Geno) runs the table or goes say 5-1 or something? On paper it couldn't come at a better time in the schedule. But say he does. Does that change the calculation about whether he's a good NFL starter? say its 8 weeks and he goes 6-2? What if he wins them all?

Boy, wouldn't that be nice! Improbable to say the least, but anything is possible.

For one, Geno's value would skyrocket. He's signed through just the end of this season so he'll be a free agent in 2022. It would also ignite a QB controversy when Russell comes back, especially if Russ plays even at an average level. If Geno plays well and has us in contention, the expectations for Russell are going to be nothing less than a trip to the Super Bowl.

As for Russ short of a miracle comeback and a Lombardi Russ is gone no matter what else should happen.

Listening to Greg Olsen in the pregame last Thursday has led me to believe that there's a good chance that you're right. But you're not considering another possibility. Suppose Pete gets fired and they hire an offensive minded coach, say someone like Eric Bieniemy or Brian Daboll. Does Russell decide that he wants to stick around for the rebuild?

[Hawktawk]

As for Russ short of a miracle comeback and a Lombardi Russ is gone no matter what else should happen.

Listening to Greg Olsen in the pregame last Thursday has led me to believe that there's a good chance that you're right. But you're not considering another possibility. Suppose Pete gets fired and they hire an offensive minded coach, say someone like Eric Bieniemy or Brian Daboll. Does Russell decide that he wants to stick around for the rebuild?

Short of a Super bowl title which frankly is not gonna happen with this bunch of clowns no I think Russ would want to go to another team ala Tom Brady that will put pieces around him. Our record may determine how much of a hurry he's in to get back THIS YEAR should it go very badly for Geno and remain atrocious for our defense. Remember our QB entered the game with 10 TD passes and a league high QBR and we were only 2-2 at the time due to the horrific disparity in TOP and the swiss cheese D.

Geno will need to be better than just average to go 500 IMO. So what if we are like 3-5,3-6? Does Russ come back with a surgically repaired hand to be blitzed every down on a bad team? Im sure Wilsons camp is as curious as anyone to see these next few games. I did read a report this morning that said there is a belief after the surgeon evaluated and repaired the injuries that Russ could return after 4 weeks off which would be for the Packers.Thats the best case but they think it is doable.

But my gut, my sense is that with last offseason, all the back and forth that's continued through this season its headed for a divorce. Following the EPIC COLLAPSE vs the Titans Carroll criticized Russ which is rare for coach to do "I wish he had helped us there, complete some passes, at least change field position". That in reference to a disastrous 3 and out culminating in him spinning backwards to be sacked on the 1 with a wide open Travis homer waving his arms on the opposite sidelines, a sure first down and maybe more. In the following game, another brutal loss to the Vikes where we were shut down in the second half and held to 17 points Russ glibly talked about "gonna score a lot of points, seems we have to score on every possession sometimes" a clear shot at the hapless defense.

Last Thursday people forget how bad things were going before Russ got hurt and it wasn't all the lines fault. Bouncing a pass off a defensive lineman's helmet for a near pick, backing it up with a ridiculous inexcusable 12 yard sack on 2nd and 10 at midfield. several overthrows. First pick of the year throwing late at Ramsey

The offense got better when the backup came in, at least for one day.I think Russ is so great he often wins in spite of himself, pulling off first reads in tight windows, playing out of control, off schedule, running around and putting up haymakers. Its his way, always has been but as his 4.5 speed has turned to 4.75 its not working as well anymore. Its sad but I think he needs a change of scenery for his own wellbeing.

Time will tell. It will be as fascinating a month of Hawks ball as weve seen in a long time

[I-5]

Thanks for doing that research on Geno, HT. I think he's not a typical backup based on his talent. He's definitely had his humbling moments, but he showed nothing but skill in a very tough spot on Thursday.

I'm not holding out for a realistic shot at the playoffs this year, but a couple things I'm really curious to see are 1) how Geno operates Waldron's system any differently than Russ (it's also possible Waldron is adjusting his playbook to fit Geno) and 2) how our protection will be with Geno due to his size, speed (or lack of), how quickly he gets rid of it, etc. It's almost like watching a control group in a scientific experiment. Ok maybe it's not as clinical as that, but you get the point...

[RiverDog]

Thanks for doing that research on Geno, HT. I think he's not a typical backup based on his talent. He's definitely had his humbling moments, but he showed nothing but skill in a very tough spot on Thursday.

I'm not holding out for a realistic shot at the playoffs this year, but a couple things I'm really curious to see are 1) how Geno operates Waldron's system any differently than Russ (it's also possible Waldron is adjusting his playbook to fit Geno) and 2) how our protection will be with Geno due to his size, speed (or lack of), how quickly he gets rid of it, etc. It's almost like watching a control group in a scientific experiment. Ok maybe it's not as clinical as that, but you get the point...

I agree. A lot of us have complained about Russell's tendency to extend plays that aren't savable instead of getting rid of the ball and that he takes too many sacks. Geno is roughly the same age, is every bit as mobile as Russell is, has a good, lively arm, and has starter experience. The only physical difference is their height. Geno has 5" on Russell.

I'm not delusional enough to think that we can get this thing turned around with or without Russell. This defense of ours is just too horrible. But like you said, it will be a good case study into what, if anything, are the differences between Russell's style of play vs. another experienced QB.

[Hawktawk]

Yeah RD you are correct . Smith is plenty mobile and contributed on the ground most starts . He’s much like Russ in that he prefers to pass but runs if he has to . I believe he had 27 yards rushing , over 100 passing and ten points and a pick in about 15 minutes of play . He’s got a big arm . His downside compared to Russ has always been accuracy and decision making . If he’s on he has the skills to do anything he needs to

[RiverDog]

Yeah RD you are correct . Smith is plenty mobile and contributed on the ground most starts . He’s much like Russ in that he prefers to pass but runs if he has to . I believe he had 27 yards rushing , over 100 passing and ten points and a pick in about 15 minutes of play . He’s got a big arm . His downside compared to Russ has always been accuracy and decision making . If he’s on he has the skills to do anything he needs to

Obviously we haven't seen Geno as much as we have Russell, but one of the differences seems to be that Geno might be a little better at managing the pocket. He doesn't dance around like Russell does, doesn't move towards the LOS then retreat and try that reverse spin, and of course, being 5" taller, is going to have a little more vision and theoretically won't need to break the pocket as much to find receivers.

But then, again, we didn't get a fair look at Geno, either last Thursday or in the preseason. They weren't throwing the kitchen sink at him as they have with Russell. Three straight games as a starter will be a lot better test.

So we'll see.

[NorthHawk]

We’re working out Blake Bortles now. He has a history with Waldron, so he might be a short term emergency backup.

[obiken]

Yeah, Hawktalk, good research.

I. too, have a lot of respect for Geno. He's always played well in preseason and didn't do anything last Thursday that would make one pause. I don't think for a minute that he's our QB of the future if we were to part ways with Russell, but he might be able to fill the gap until we get our next franchise QB. 6 weeks will be plenty of time to make a good evaluation of him in the event Russell does decide to move on.

I dont, there's a reason guys are backups River. I hope you are right.

[Hawktawk]

Your right obiken. That’s why they are looking at uncle Rico Blake Bortles to back up starter Geno Smith . Let’s see. Not too many backup qbs have 31 starts and one of them was 356 yards , 3 tds, no picks , 37 points and a perfect qb rating of 158.3. He only had one game like that but that’s talent . He’s been in the organization 3 years . He looked surgical for Seattle right up to the game ending pick. I’m with I 5 let’s see what Shane waldrons offense looks like with a taller more pocket oriented qb. I have no
Illusions I know we may all be crying in our beer sunday night but I just have an inkling that something cool might happen with Geno next few weeks

[tarlhawk]

I was hoping maybe the defense could turn things around and give Gino more opportunities...but now there's some talk Bobby Wagner will be a game day decision and is questionable for now.

[Hawktawk]

You always remember the last thing but the dude hadn’t started in 5 years and that was 1 start and they put up 20 on the road against a great defense . A couple battet balls due to not looking off defenders . Looked lik rust . Took a few massive hits with line breakdowns . In all not a terrible debut . Not good enough obviously. Why not try the field goal early ? Who made that call?

[RiverDog]

You always remember the last thing but the dude hadn’t started in 5 years and that was 1 start and they put up 20 on the road against a great defense . A couple battet balls due to not looking off defenders . Looked lik rust . Took a few massive hits with line breakdowns . In all not a terrible debut . Not good enough obviously. Why not try the field goal early ? Who made that call?

I gave Geno a D in the other thread. At least 3 passes that were knocked down at the LOS. Can't call that rust. Not many shots downfield yet ended with a QBR of 24.4. Can't seem to connect with Lockett. Our best hands receiver and he gets 2 completions in 7 targets. Unforgivable turnover in OT that lost the game for us.

I'm not sure which end of the field we were going towards when Pete passed up a 56 yard FG attempt on a cool night in an outdoor stadium, but I wasn't surprised or disappointed. That field is a kicker's graveyard.

[NorthHawk]

All QBs use throwing lanes to complete passes. I heard one former QB say that it's a bit of an art form so given Geno hasn't played in real game action for 5 years
it's something we should expect for the time being. So I'm giving him a pass on the batted ball front.
What was a little frustrating was how many times he missed short passes and threw them into the dirt in front of the receivers. There were probably 2 or 3 drives
stopped by that.

[RiverDog]

All QBs use throwing lanes to complete passes. I heard one former QB say that it's a bit of an art form so given Geno hasn't played in real game action for 5 years it's something we should expect for the time being. So I'm giving him a pass on the batted ball front.

All part of the grading criteria. Regardless of game experience, it's still a shortcoming that's part of his overall evaluation.

What was a little frustrating was how many times he missed short passes and threw them into the dirt in front of the receivers. There were probably 2 or 3 drives stopped by that.

Yes, I noticed that, too. Hard to believe that was the same QB that came into the Rams game in the 4th quarter.

[Hawktawk]

He was locking on to receivers which not only allows dbs to read his eyes but also D linemen. He definitely didn’t look comfortable . I wouldn’t either with some of the blindside hits he took . Warts aside he performed well enough in the last 2 games to have the ball in his hands with a chance to win the game . Both times he turned it over which was his real bugaboo in New York . Maybe he is who they thought he was . At this rate we coujd easily go into the bye at 2-6

[obiken]

GS is just a good, not great, and not bad back up, period. Too many of you like River, overestimated him. (There is a reason these guys are backups making thousands, and starters are worth Millions) I would argue that the has played well for a backup, the defense is our biggest problem, last in the league, in everything. We are starting to see how much Russ is really worth.

[RiverDog]

GS is just a good, not great, and not bad back up, period. Too many of you like River, overestimated him. (There is a reason these guys are backups making thousands, and starters are worth Millions) I would argue that the has played well for a backup, the defense is our biggest problem, last in the league, in everything. We are starting to see how much Russ is really worth.

What was it that I said about Geno that would lead you to believe that I overestimated him? I noted that his play in the 4th quarter of the Rams game was skewed because we weren't looking at a full game. In this very thread, about 10 posts above yours, I said this prior to the Steelers game:

But then, again, we didn't get a fair look at Geno, either last Thursday or in the preseason. They weren't throwing the kitchen sink at him as they have with Russell. Three straight games as a starter will be a lot better test.

I would also like to point out that we haven't seen the last of Geno, either. He has at least two more starts before Russell returns, so let's hold off on the evaluations for a couple weeks.

[Hawktawk]

Genos stat line Sunday was 209 yards with a TD and a 71% completion rate . Obviously the fumble was a back breaker but he was gonna get quite a bit of yardage there if the balls not batted . Next week will be an even harder challenge against a really good defense . Their offense will put more pressure on us than Pittsburgh . I heard rumors about Newton but Carroll was complimentary of Geno after the game . Of course he said his corners played well a couple weeks ago too……

[RiverDog]

Genos stat line Sunday was 209 yards with a TD and a 71% completion rate ....

..and a QBR of 24.5.

You're trying to put lipstick on a pig. Geno played poorly.

[Hawktawk]

I really don’t get this 24.5 number you keep quoting . Geno went 23 for 32 which is 71 % completion rate . He threw for 209 which is just under 10 yards per completion . He threw a touchdown pass and completed passes to ten players . His qbr was 99.2. The fumble was bad, a great player made a great play but Geno did not play “ poorly “
By any objective measure . He had a horrible mistake at the end but most coaches would take a road start at Heinz field after 5 years holding a clipboard

[RiverDog]

I really don’t get this 24.5 number you keep quoting . Geno went 23 for 32 which is 71 % completion rate . He threw for 209 which is just under 10 yards per completion . He threw a touchdown pass and completed passes to ten players . The fumble was bad, a great player made a great play but Geno did not play “ poorly “
By any objective measure . He had a horrible mistake at the end but most coaches would take a road start at Heinz field after 5 years holding a clipboard

I'm surprised that you haven't heard about it. It's been around for a good 10 years. The highest possible rating is 158.3, the lowest zero.

Seattle Passing
C/ATT YDS TD INT SACKS QBR
G. Smith 23/32 209 1 0 5-44 24.5
TEAM 23/32 165 1 0 5-44 --


https://www.espn.com/nfl/boxscore/_/gameId/401326421

ESPN’s Total Quarterback Rating (Total QBR), which was released in 2011, has never claimed to be perfect, but unlike other measures of quarterback performance, it incorporates all of a quarterback’s contributions to winning, including how he impacts the game on passes, rushes, turnovers and penalties. Also, since QBR is built from the play level, it accounts for a team’s level of success or failure on every play to provide the proper context and then allocates credit to the quarterback and his teammate to produce a clearer measure of quarterback efficiency.

https://www.espn.com/blog/statsinfo/pos ... ack-rating

There's more in that link if you really want to dive into it, but suffice it to say that Geno's QBR sucked.

[c_hawkbob]

QBR is a 0-100 scale, it's the old Passer rating that tops pot at 158. Nobody uses QBR but ESPN, it simply hasn't caught on the way they hoped it would.

[RiverDog]

QBR is a 0-100 scale, it's the old Passer rating that tops pot at 158. Nobody uses QBR but ESPN, it simply hasn't caught on the way they hoped it would.

You're right, my bad.

And yes, ESPN is the only ones that use it. However, I think it's a little more reflective of overall quarterback performance than a passer rating. They tend to give a little more credit to running quarterbacks like Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, and Patrick Mahomes, that's not reflected in a pure passer rating.

[Hawktawk]

Just re watched the game minus beer goggles and I’m gonna double down . Geno really didn’t play badly at all. At one point he directed 3 scoring drives in a row in crunch time . His drive to get us to overtime was a patient mistake free take what they give you drive . Took a little too much time but on the road in a nuts stadium not too shabby . And Watt should be AFC player of the week . He disrupted Geno 5 times . The near strip early when Geno did a good job just getting it away . He batted down 3 . Then of course the strip sack in ot when Geno did the only thing he could and watt made an incredible athletic play . The guys a stud and the only reason we didn’t win by at least a TD.

I’m gonna have a little sympathy for metcalf there at the end too . He’s right at the sidelines . He doesn’t attempt to cut to the middle but rather run the dudes the F over and win the game. Had the ball not gotten punched out which stopped DK in his tracks I’m not sure he couldn’t have possibly done it . Safe play ? No but we saw how overtime has been working so wtf.

[obiken]

You're right, my bad.

And yes, ESPN is the only ones that use it. However, I think it's a little more reflective of overall quarterback performance than a passer rating. They tend to give a little more credit to running quarterbacks like Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, and Patrick Mahomes, that's not reflected in a pure passer rating.

QBR=g({\frac {AdjustedEPA}{ActionPlays}})},

[I-5]

I said earlier it would be interesting to watch how Geno runs Waldron's system so that we can see how we really look without Russ. So far, it's making Russ look REALLY good. I don't fault Geno for all the problems, and possibly not even Waldron. I have a feeling that contrary to what I had thought before, Pete is pulling some of the strings in game, as in deciding between run and pass. How else can you explain inexplicably running it so many times in a row in the 3rd quarter, even when the Saints were showing up to 9 players on the line of scrimmage?

[RiverDog]

I said earlier it would be interesting to watch how Geno runs Waldron's system so that we can see how we really look without Russ. So far, it's making Russ look REALLY good. I don't fault Geno for all the problems, and possibly not even Waldron. I have a feeling that contrary to what I had thought before, Pete is pulling some of the strings in game, as in deciding between run and pass. How else can you explain inexplicably running it so many times in a row in the 3rd quarter, even when the Saints were showing up to 9 players on the line of scrimmage?

The weather. At times, it was raining like a cow pissing on a flat rock.

It's hard to tell just how much effect the weather had on play calling, but it's pretty obvious that it was a significant factor. The Saints, despite not having a lot of success running the ball, ran it 31 times for just 94 yards, or barely 3 yards per carry. Our running performance was very similar, gaining just 90 yards on 28 attempts. Both quarterbacks were off target, with a nearly identical 54% completion rate. Both teams had horrible 3rd down conversion rates, the Saints 2-13 and the Hawks 3-12. Meyers missed two makeable FG's. I really don't think we can draw too many conclusions due to the weather conditions. It was a bad night for both quarterbacks and both offenses.

As far as Geno goes, although he still has at least one more start, the experiment is for all intents and purposes over. In 3 straight games, he's had multiple opportunities that all QB's dream of: A chance to win the game in the 4th quarter/overtime and has failed in all of them. He's a wasted roster spot. I'd rather give a younger QB that backup position and let them have a shot at it should we ever need their services again. Finding a young, promising quarterback, either a free agent or a low round draft pick, should be a priority in the offseason. After all, that's how Tom Brady got his chance.

[Hawktawk]

I’d say it’s more like the entire team is a failed experiment . Geno played about the same as a former # 1 overall on a horrible night . He’s had protection issues every start . The last 2 defenses we faced were salty with big time all pro talent . . Not converting a win because you got laid out isn’t all on the qb. To me Geno appears to be a decent backup that can move the chains and give the team a chance . The biggest failed experiment is Meyers . We need to look for a kicker . And the officials . Bad . And remember one more thing . Russ was bouncing balls off defenders helmets , missing high and wide and running backwards for huge sacks as well. It was not working .

[tarlhawk]

Well...that was a hard pill to swallow! I haven't seen any definitive status on Ethan Pocic...but I think he could help stop some of the bleeding from the pass pro interior. I mentioned in earlier posts that Kyle Fuller would be an achilles heel until he got more experience under his belt. The center needs to set the rest of the offensive line based on what he recognizes while looking at the opponents d-line alignment. Usually when a lineman complains of "communication issues" its the center he is talking about without giving a name.

Russell was a big help to Fuller resetting pass pro based on his own experience as he came up under center. Geno takes a lot longer trying to re-adjust pass pro and sometimes he abandoned re-setting it as it is more of a distraction to him than it is for RW. This communicating weakness in passing along needed info to the rest of the line...is exposed even more when the opponent has an above avg d-line. I'm not sure of Geno's hand size but one of RW's advantages when playing in bad weather is his large hands (better grip).

[RiverDog]

I’d say it’s more like the entire team is a failed experiment . Geno played about the same as a former # 1 overall on a horrible night . He’s had protection issues every start . The last 2 defenses we faced were salty with big time all pro talent . . Not converting a win because you got laid out isn’t all on the qb. To me Geno appears to be a decent backup that can move the chains and give the team a chance . The biggest failed experiment is Meyers . We need to look for a kicker . And the officials . Bad . And remember one more thing . Russ was bouncing balls off defenders helmets , missing high and wide and running backwards for huge sacks as well. It was not working .

Sure, the entire team is a failed experiment, but the thread is about Geno.

So now you're comparing Geno to a "former #1 overall"? You can put lipstick on a pig and it's still a pig. Jameis Winston is at best a pedestrian quarterback. He's thrown 91 career interceptions and has the worst TD:INT ratio of any starting quarterback over the past 6 years. And Russell was bouncing balls off defender's helmets? My God, man! He's completed 72% of his passes, thrown just one pick all season long, and is one of if not the highest rated QB's in the league. Time to quit making excuses for Geno, man up, admit that you were wrong, and quit grasping at straws. He's not a good backup. Period.

As far as Meyer's performance goes, yes, he didn't come through last night and his misses were the difference in the game. But your sounding like Jim Mora. One bad night doesn't mean that he's lost it. He just got through going over a year without missing a single FG attempt. He has 10 more games. If he continues to miss, then yes, it's time to look for a new kicker.

I understand your frustration. We're all in the same boat as this team sucks. But please, quit trying to save face and just admit that you were wrong. We all make bad judgements.

[RiverDog]

Well...that was a hard pill to swallow! I haven't seen any definitive status on Ethan Pocic...but I think he could help stop some of the bleeding from the pass pro interior. I mentioned in earlier posts that Kyle Fuller would be an achilles heel until he got more experience under his belt. The center needs to set the rest of the offensive line based on what he recognizes while looking at the opponents d-line alignment. Usually when a lineman complains of "communication issues" its the center he is talking about without giving a name.

Russell was a big help to Fuller resetting pass pro based on his own experience as he came up under center. Geno takes a lot longer trying to re-adjust pass pro and sometimes he abandoned re-setting it as it is more of a distraction to him than it is for RW. This communicating weakness in passing along needed info to the rest of the line...is exposed even more when the opponent has an above avg d-line. I'm not sure of Geno's hand size but one of RW's advantages when playing in bad weather is his large hands (better grip).

Good question about Pocic. I'd also like to know what's going on with Eskridge. He's been out for a concussion for over 6 weeks. And I think you make a valid point about Geno not being able to re-set his passing stance once he's moved off his spot.

IMO the weather was definitely a factor with both quarterbacks. Neither one of them were facing a top flight defense yet it was our lowest scoring game of our season and one of the lowest scoring in the league this year. But you might want to strike the comment about Russell's hand size giving him an advantage in conditions like we saw last night. Russell's record in bad weather isn't that good.

[NorthHawk]

There have been a few years now of good Centers in the draft. We passed on all of them.
That's all you need to know about the direction of this team and why we have such a moribund Offense.
Geno is just a backup QB. There aren't many backups that are good enough to start in the NFL, so teams
have to adjust. We don't have the talent to help out any backup QB let alone one that hasn't seen real
action for 5 years. There's a reason why Wilson is a Pro Bowl QB and Geno is a backup. The gulf between
them is huge but that's what's to be expected I suppose as how do you justify a top tier backup QB when
your QB hasn't missed a game in something like 10 years? It's ironic that with all of the hits Wilson has
taken over the years it was a finger injury that took him down.

[RiverDog]

There aren't many backups that are good enough to start in the NFL, so teams have to adjust. We don't have the talent to help out any backup QB let alone one that hasn't seen real action for 5 years. There's a reason why Wilson is a Pro Bowl QB and Geno is a backup. The gulf between them is huge but that's what's to be expected I suppose as how do you justify a top tier backup QB when your QB hasn't missed a game in something like 10 years? It's ironic that with all of the hits Wilson has taken over the years it was a finger injury that took him down.

Good points. Yes, there aren't very many cases of backup quarterbacks that have taken over and succeeded mid season. Foles is one exception, but he wasn't replacing a QB that had been the starter for 10 years like Russell has, plus the Eagles were loaded that season. Perhaps our expectations of Geno are a little too high, but nevertheless, he still has played poorly. We'll see how he performs this weekend. Hopefully the weather is a little better than it was last night. Jacksonville's defense isn't nearly as good as the Steelers or the Saints, in fact they are one of the worst.

I, too, thought of the irony of Russell not missing a start despite taking the most hits of any other NFL quarterback over the past few seasons yet when he does get injured, it's a fluke. Russell does do a good job of getting into the fetal position when he's about to take a sack, an attribute that helps his ball security in those situations. He hasn't been guilty of too many strip sacks over the years.

[Hawktawk]

Good point about Russ in bad weather . I sat at the Clink in 2013 and watched Russ personally waste a 4 pick of Carson Palmer effort by the LOB by completing 44 % of his passes , missing wide open receivers . The offense wasted a Malcolm Butler int to the AZ 5. The indignity was complete when Hauchka banged a 22 yard FG off the upright . The last ditch drive ended with the famous forearm fumble as Baldwin laid out to try to catch another bad throw and the ball
Bounced off either the turf or his arm to an Az defender . Far worse performance than Geno last night .

And I really don’t need a lecture about my opinion of Geno or Russ or any other player . We have 5 losses . 3 were started by Russ and his stat line this year was misleading . Our time of possession was less than half our opponents . It was feast or famine . Russ lost the Titans game as much with his inability to do anything other than a blown coverage on 3rd and 12 to swain the entire second half . And I seem to remember you being extremely critical of his brutal run backwards in overtime with homer wide open 3 and out after air mailing the ball the first 2 downs .

We were only in overtime vs the Rams BECAUSE of Geno . That’s the game Russ bounced the ball off the defensive linemen’s helmet on first down at midfield , spun out backwards and probably danced around for 6 seconds before being sacked for a 12 yard loss . The play he’s injured on he overthrew a wide open
Lockett for a TD. Vs the Vikes in a scoreless second half he misses a wide open
Swain , another overthrow due to short arming the throw to avoid getting hammered . I said going into the season my biggest question was Russ Wilson . I didn’t get my answer other than he was less consistent so far this year. I stand by what I said about Geno . He looks like a decent backup to me . If Meyers who apparently can do no wrong despite being a factor in almost every loss hits 2 makeable FGs Geno got the team in position for we win an ugly sloppy game . Against the Steelers he hung in the pocket and took some tremendous shots while delivering the ball . As far as the Saints pedestrian defense it’s one of the top scoring defenses in the league so not sure what you mean . I’m not sure exactly why our defense is much less pedestrian but I’d guess we’ve been moving the ball well enough to have a little better time of possession and the ability to at least change field position . Haven’t looked at the stats so not sure . Just a guess . My guess Russ is done after this year in Seattle anyway . Geno isn’t a replacement obviously but with no draft picks we’re not getting his replacement anytime soon unless there’s another Wilson in the 3rd or Brady in the 6th. But I could see him as a placeholder . Curious to see Russ timetable after Schottie brings in Lawrence and carves us up like a Christmas turkey .

[Vegaseahawk]

IMHO, it wasn't Geno Smith who lost this game, it was our porous pass defense allowing 'nawlins extended offensive possessions & our kicker missing 2 FG's. I thought our run defense was ok, despite Kamara's performance. He's going to get his. I just can't remember when the last time we lost 3 home games in a row was. Probably 1992 during the "he who shall not be named" years.