Week #5 - Rams

[Agent 86]

Seahawks-Rams rivalry includes trash talk, cigars but also important NFC West implications

By Michael-Shawn Dugar

The word “rivalry” is thrown around often in divisional matchups and that’s the case again this week as the Seahawks prepare to face the Los Angeles Rams at Lumen Field on Thursday night.

Seattle had two entertaining games against the Rams in a span of three weeks to cap the 2020 season, though the intrigue in this Week 5 showdown goes beyond what has transpired on the field. There are several layers that explain what makes this the most interesting game on Seattle’s schedule. As usual, all stats are provided by TruMedia unless otherwise noted.

Let’s start with the trash talk between the players.

Seattle in Week 16 beat the Rams at Lumen Field to clinch its first NFC West title since 2016. Seattle’s much-maligned defense played lights out in a 20-9 victory.

“I need my hat and shirt,” cornerback D.J. Reed said while slapping five with strong safety Jamal Adams on the sideline when the victory was all but secured. Reed was referring to the NFC West championship T-shirt and hat given to the Seahawks upon their triumph.

“Where my cigar at?” Adams yelled from the bench. “I need my cigar!”

Adams then lit a cigar in his postgame news conference before declaring as he walked away, “We’re champions.”

The Rams didn’t like this.

Then came the wild-card meeting two weeks later, again at Lumen Field. The Rams, who started John Wolford at quarterback before bringing Jared Goff off the bench as an injury replacement, handled the Seahawks at home and ended their season with a 30-20 win.

“They can take they hats and T-shirts to Cabo,” Rams cornerback Jalen Ramsey yelled toward a television camera on the sideline as the game ended. A member of the Rams added: “They can keep the cigars, too.” Ramsey continued celebrating by saying, “They can keep they little hat and T-shirt.” Added the other member of the Rams: “We sent they ass home.” Then Ramsey concluded: “They can go to Cabo for the rest of the offseason.”

Rams receiver Robert Woods after the game posted a photo on Instagram with the caption: “Sent them boys to Cancun.”

The Seahawks didn’t like this.

Then came the divisional round of the NFC playoffs, which featured Green Bay ending the Rams’ season just one week after L.A. did the same to Seattle. Seattle free safety Quandre Diggs after Green Bay’s win tweeted: “Don’t worry this Cabo sun will thaw y’all out! Make sure buddy with the foggy glasses come too.”

“See y’all in Cabo,” Adams tweeted, tagging the Rams’ official Twitter account. “Make sure y’all bring your own damn cigars too!”

During training camp, Adams was asked about the rivalry with the Rams and whether he’s looking forward to the matchup.

“When do we see ‘em, Week 5?” he asked rhetorically. Adams certainly knew the answer. “Yeah,” he said, nodding his head. “We’ll see ‘em.”
Adams on Sunday was asked whether the Cabo comments from the Rams after the wild-card game add anything extra this game.

“Nah,” he said following Seattle’s 28-21 win over San Francisco, after which he declared, “We own the West.”

“At the end the day,” Adams said, “they was in Cabo with us. We got to continue doing what we doing. We’re not going to get caught up in all the hype. Obviously, it was one game, it was a great win. But, like I said, we got our next opponent coming up, the Rams. We’re looking forward to it.”

Beef among the players aside, these Seahawks-Rams matchups have been quite the struggle for Pete Carroll, who is 3-6 including the playoffs against Sean McVay since the young Los Angeles head coach joined the division in 2017. McVay handed Carroll the worst regular-season home loss of his career, a 42-7 beatdown in December 2017, and is the only coach to beat Carroll in a playoff game in Seattle. McVay has won two NFC West titles (2017 and 2018) while Carroll in that span just has that 2020 crown.

Carroll being a defensive-minded head coach and McVay being the Offensive Boy Genius who took the NFL by storm has added to the intrigue of these showdowns. McVay in the earlier installments of this rivalry has found ways to put a number on Carroll’s defense despite working with a limited passer in Goff. Carroll’s teams allow an average of 26.7 points against McVay. Only three times in nine meetings has Carroll’s team posted positive EPA on defense against McVay. It happened in the first meeting, a 16-10 win for Seattle in October 2017, and twice last season: the NFC West clincher in Week 16 and the wild-card loss.

Since the Rams acquired Ramsey via trade midway through the 2019 season, the script has flipped to some degree. Adding the best cornerback in football has made it more difficult for Seattle to score on Los Angeles’ defense: The Seahawks are averaging just 17 points per game in four meetings. Seattle has a minus-22 point differential in those four games and averages an abysmal minus-11.8 EPA on offense while going 1-3 in those contests.

Keep in mind these numbers for McVay’s offense were with Goff at quarterback. Trading for Matthew Stafford has brought a more competent, strong-armed passer into the mix and Los Angeles’ offense is reaping the benefits. Stafford ranks third in EPA per play, fifth in touchdown percentage and the Rams are averaging 28.7 points per game. Los Angeles is second to the Chiefs in EPA per play on third down and Stafford has not taken a sack on third down this year while owning the lowest sack rate in the league. The Rams under McVay have had explosive offenses before, but this may be the toughest version Carroll and the Seahawks have faced. This has potential to pose problems for a Seattle defense that ranks 27th in EPA per play and 16th in third-down defense, according to Sportradar.

“I think you can tell that the coaches are really trusting Matthew and giving him a lot of latitude to throw the ball a lot and spread the field,” Carroll said. “It’s obvious that they are really excited about what he contributes. He’s seeing a terrific scheme, excellent receivers and pass protection where he’s been sacked three times in four games, which is a quarterback’s dream. They are off to a terrific start, and it really looks like a great move to get him. I think he’s uplifted their program, from what it seems, and they are excited about it.”

The marquee on-field matchup is Ramsey, arguably the best defensive back in football, against DK Metcalf, one of the most physically imposing receivers in the NFL. There’s a mutual respect between the two parties. Metcalf cited the two-time All-Pro cornerback when he was asked to name the toughest cornerback he has faced.

Metcalf complimented Ramsey’s “trash talk” during an NFL Network “Top 100” interview, then said: “He’s strong, competitive. It’s just a battle every time we go against each other.”

Ramsey is mostly winning those battles. In their first matchup, a prime-time fight in Los Angeles, a rookie Metcalf had five catches for 69 yards and a pair of first downs against Ramsey but Seattle got blown out and didn’t score an offensive touchdown. In last year’s two regular-season meetings, Metcalf had a combined four targets and one catch for 11 yards. Ramsey had a pass breakup in the second game. Metcalf was more impactful in the wild-card game but still held far below his Pro Bowl standard that year, catching three of six targets when matched up with Ramsey for 33 yards and zero first downs. Ramsey again had a pass breakup.

Metcalf for his career, playoffs included, averages 71.9 receiving yards and 4.5 receptions per game. Against Ramsey, Metcalf has averaged 28.2 receiving yards and 2.2 catches per game, with no touchdowns. In addition to having one of the best interior pass rushers of all-time in Aaron Donald to aid in neutralizing Russell Wilson, the Rams have the one cornerback in the league who consistently locks down Seattle’s top wideout — and talks trash about it in the process.

“They mix it up, they do a good job of doubling sometimes and they single him up once in a while,” Wilson said of L.A.’s coverage against Metcalf. “They do a really good job with their coverage and with their front and movements up front. They have a good scheme.”

Even though Adams doesn’t want to buy into the hype, there’s plenty to sell when looking ahead to this matchup. Who gets the last laugh, the cigar-smoking Seahawks or the trash-talking visitors from Los Angeles? Will Carroll get closer to evening up the score against McVay or will the young gun dominate once again? Can Metcalf finally shake free from Ramsey and be the game-breaker he is against every other defensive back? The answer to these questions will determine which team comes out of this game holding second place in the NFC’s toughest division.

[RiverDog]

Thanks, 86. Interesting look into the rivalry. Hopefully guys like Metcalf doesn't let all that trash talking to get into his head as it has on several occasions.

[tarlhawk]

Plenty of things for concern...even though Goff played a role in beating us in the playoffs...I always found comfort in that Goff seemed the weak link. Getting Stafford makes it a game of momentum where turnovers and special teams perhaps play an even bigger role. In our current times a great offense has odds of beating a great defense...and our defense hasn't approached a level where we as fans can feel cocky. Russel has the ability to keep the team believing in itself and we are seeing more and more supporting roles being added from within to make it a team effort and not an individuals willing burden. Go Hawks!

[NorthHawk]

Injuries are starting to mount.
Dunlap has turf toe, Carson probably out with a neck injury, Mayowa as well with a neck injury, DK has a lingering foot issue but expected to play.
On a good note, Shell might be back at RT.
The Rams are pretty much healthy except for those gone for the year.

[Agent 86]

It all seem to add up to a Rams win tonight. McVay so much success against Carrol. Stafford upgrade over Goff. Rams D led by Donald and Ramsey has always given Wilson fits. Our defense looking shaky to start the year.

Big gut check game tonight, the Seahawks can change the narrative of the NFC West thus far. Adams needs to be a major factor tonight, you know he will be fired up. And Russ will need to be at his best and play smart football, take the check downs when they are there.

As one of my teammates once told me, "big players play big in big games". Tonight is big, let's see who shows up.

Go 'Hawks!

[RiverDog]

Yea, I have a really bad feeling about this game. I woke up this morning thinking that I just had been paid a visit from the Ghost of Christmas Future.

They were susceptible with Goff over center, but now with Stafford, they have a seasoned vet that isn't going to make those bad mistakes that you could count on Goff making if you put him under even moderate pressure. Ramsey is the one DB that can shut down Metcalf and Donald has had our number for the past several years. I think we lose by 3 scores.

Rams 34, Seahawks 17.

I'd love to have someone waive that prediction in my face tomorrow morning.

[Rambo2014]

here we go boys, I have no reason to brag as we all know RW lost sleep last night thinking of Donald in his eyesite.

Rams ar mad from last week

No contest

Rams 42, Sea 11

[RiverDog]

Nothing to say that I haven't already said, I just wanted to bump Ramblow's comments down a peg.

[RiverDog]

Injuries are starting to mount.
Dunlap has turf toe, Carson probably out with a neck injury, Mayowa as well with a neck injury, DK has a lingering foot issue but expected to play.
On a good note, Shell might be back at RT.
The Rams are pretty much healthy except for those gone for the year.

Carson is inactive for tonight. I don't think we'll lose a lot as Alex Collins has been playing great. Here's the other Hawk inactives for tonight's game:

CB John Reid
RB Chris Carson
T Jake Curhan
T Stone Forsythe
DT Robert Nkemdiche

[Hawktawk]

Brutal . They may yet win this game but this is a one and done playoff team if they even get there.,this is hard to watch

[jshawaii22]

Gino comes in and the Rams may have already packed their bags for the airport...98 yards and looked like a starting QB. amazing.

[Oly]

And then the Hawks defense takes a cue from the Rams defense on that last drive.

The Rams WRs are killing the zone and the crossing routes are beating the man coverage. Without a scheme change or the pass rush magically becoming elite, I don't think the Hawks can hang with teams that have passing attacks as good as the Rams'.

[Hawktawk]

Brutal loss on every level. We may as well trade Dixon . Kudos to Geno. Interesting how he came in cold and ran the Waldron offense mostly flawlessly . This team makes me ill right now overall

[Aseahawkfan]

This season is over. Russell is injured. We look terrible.

[trents]

At the start of the game one of the commentators stated that the Seahawks are last in the NFL in rushing. That goes a long way in explaining all those three and outs. With the lack of talent on our defensive side, that is a killer since it puts the defense on the field for so many minutes. The talent base is very thin on the team as a whole after years of low draft picks combined with poor resource allocation decisions in general. It's time for an overhaul of the organization.

It also seems evident to me that RW is not the dynamic player he used to be who single-handedly won quite a few games for us with his feet and elusiveness. He's just not putting the team on his back like he used to. He seems so subdued now and I think he just doesn't have that force of will he used to have. He seems to be kind of resigned to the likelihood that this team just isn't going to rise up this year.

[Aseahawkfan]

I'm sure the Jets are feeling happy. They get our first round pick next year. The 17.5 million dollar man is our first round draft pick for next year too.

[RiverDog]

At the start of the game one of the commentators stated that the Seahawks are last in the NFL in rushing.

We were last in the league in rushing defense. Before the game, we were top 10 in rushing yards per attempt on offense and still rank 9th. After 5 games, we now rank 29th in rushing yards allowed per game.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... /index.htm

It also seems evident to me that RW is not the dynamic player he used to be who single-handedly won quite a few games for us with his feet and elusiveness. He's just not putting the team on his back like he used to. He seems so subdued now and I think he just doesn't have that force of will he used to have. He seems to be kind of resigned to the likelihood that this team just isn't going to rise up this year.

So true that it hurts. There have been occasions where Russell has shown some flashes of the Fran Tarkenton-like quarterback he was when he first came up, but he certainly doesn't do it with the frequency he did 10 years ago. Geno is a better scrambler than Russ is. But Russell isn't what's wrong with this team. He's having a very good start to the season. Last night, he threw his first interception and even that was somewhat excusable.

[RiverDog]

Yea, I have a really bad feeling about this game. I woke up this morning thinking that I just had been paid a visit from the Ghost of Christmas Future.

They were susceptible with Goff over center, but now with Stafford, they have a seasoned vet that isn't going to make those bad mistakes that you could count on Goff making if you put him under even moderate pressure. Ramsey is the one DB that can shut down Metcalf and Donald has had our number for the past several years. I think we lose by 3 scores.

Rams 34, Seahawks 17.

I'd love to have someone waive that prediction in my face tomorrow morning.

I got half the score right, and had it not been for Stafford's inexplicable throw away into the end zone that Diggs picked off, the other half of the score might have been pretty close, too. It wasn't the blow out I expected as Stafford didn't have a very good game, especially in the first half, but it was bad enough.

We're just not a very good football team right now. The offense is above average, say a B+ offense and Russell is having an excellent season, but they aren't good enough to carry the team and our D- defense. Outside of our division, we have a relatively soft schedule left with teams like the Steelers, Jags, Texans, Bears, WFT, and Lions that should keep us at or near the .500 mark, but we're definitely not a SB contender.

[Hawktawk]

The amount of blown opportunities on offense was more than enough to win the game . Once again the TOP in the first half was 2-1 Rams and we had a 7 -3 lead after wasting 3 trips over the 50 and 2 in the red zone for zilch points . Out D got us stops . It gave us the ball . In the second half it was more of the same . We had 15 yards offense in the 3rd . Russ took a 12 yard sack when we were 2nd and 10 on the 50 after holding the ball about 8 seconds . Russ this Russ that blah blah blah . Love Russ but he’s out of control sometimes . It’s awful seeing him hurt but it was extremely nice watching Geno take his drop and put his foot in the ground and wham, calmly read the field , work the screen game to perfection . I don’t think he took a sack behind the terrible line either . His last pick was maybe a penalty but it’s as smooth as the offense has ran all year otherwise . I will slap anyone who suggests there’s a controversy but it was eye opening seeing someone else in there in a meaningful situation .

[NorthHawk]

I'm surprised how well Geno did. He didn't look like he felt rusty at all.
As well, the OL pass blocked better for him.
We still can't grind out short yardage plays on Offense and the Defense is once again on pace for giving up a record amount of yardage.
Once we play the lesser teams that will change and we might squeak into the playoffs, but the good teams will grind us up if this continues.

[RiverDog]

The amount of blown opportunities on offense was more than enough to win the game . Once again the TOP in the first half was 2-1 Rams and we had a 7 -3 lead after wasting 3 trips over the 50 and 2 in the red zone for zilch points . Out D got us stops . It gave us the ball . In the second half it was more of the same . We had 15 yards offense in the 3rd . Russ took a 12 yard sack when we were 2nd and 10 on the 50 after holding the ball about 8 seconds . Russ this Russ that blah blah blah . Love Russ but he’s out of control sometimes . It’s awful seeing him hurt but it was extremely nice watching Geno take his drop and put his foot in the ground and wham, calmly read the field , work the screen game to perfection . I don’t think he took a sack behind the terrible line either . His last pick was maybe a penalty but it’s as smooth as the offense has ran all year otherwise . I will slap anyone who suggests there’s a controversy but it was eye opening seeing someone else in there in a meaningful situation .

It was a team loss. Yes, the defense got us some stops, but they also gave up 24 first downs and 476 yards of offense. The one turnover we got, Diggs pick in our end zone, was a gift on a drive that was sure to net the Rams at least a FG. We're still the worst defense in the league.

Geno did play really well, but that shouldn't be too surprising as most of the time, the Rams were playing with a 2 score lead, defending against the big play, giving him a lot of the underneath stuff, and allowed him to scramble. It's not unusual for a backup to come in and perform well. It's a change up that catches the defense off guard somewhat.

I was disappointed in Pete passing up a 47 yard FG attempt in the first half on 4th and 2 and without our best RB. I don't care what analytics say, you always take the points in the first half of a close game, especially when we have a kicker like Jason Meyers. Having those 3 points might have changed the character of the 2nd half.

17 points isn't going to win a lot of NFL games, but the offense alone wasn't what lost this game. We're just a bad team.

[Hawktawk]

The d held for a half and also got a turnover Russ promptly gave back . I don’t excuse the luck either . He throws it a tick late to a guy being covered by the best corner in the game with predictable results . He overthrew a wide open Lockett on the play he was injured that was 7 for sure . Our D proved last week that against a middle of the pack offense they can hang in if they get some help . They held one of the best offenses in the league in check for 30 minutes . With a pathetic anemic offense the dam broke . Our offense is a bigger part of the problem than people acnowkedge . Few defenses can hold up
Spending 40 minutes on the field against a team like this . So far Schottie is winner winner chicken dinner over Waldrons mess of confusing dead on arrival plays . Let’s see what happens going forward but this is a recipe for dwelling in the cellar of the conference , never mind the division . It’s a bad team and there are better players in it than a team that should be playing this bad .

[tarlhawk]

It started out so well...and ended so badly. Aaron Donald really is Russel's kryptonite...even when he's not sacking him. Bad rushing defense usually reflects SS/linebacking corps/DT...or the schemes using them. The type of weakness specified by the announcing team was the cutback runs. To my untrained eye it almost seems like the ease our opponents have in passing is setting up their rush instead of vice versa. Waldron still doesn't have all the elements of the offense clicking but you can see it is producing targets coming open and the Rams unfortunately displayed how good it can become with everything clicking.

I'm sure Duane Brown felt our momentum shift on that untimely holding call that wiped out a (Lockett ?) TD before the half...only compounded by missing the field goal attempt. Hoping Everette recovers quickly/safely...his absence was felt...Colby can be a red-zone target but the two TE use for Waldron requires strong blocking TE when not releasing into a route.

We're still caught up in uncharted territory...hoping all isn't as bleak as it seems.

[Hawktawk]

Pretty ticky tack hold call on an all
Pro lineman . I watched the Rams line hook all night and maybe one hold call all
Night . Brutal . The clincher was coming out of the locker dead as a doornail and remaining inept and scoreless until a journeyman backup came in the game to put up 10 points in the 4th quarter to make a game of it. Our d crapped out and that was that . Norton needs fired regardless this d is not the sum of its parts .

[RiverDog]

Pretty ticky tack hold call on an all
Pro lineman . I watched the Rams line hook all night and maybe one hold call all
Night . Brutal . The clincher was coming out of the locker dead as a doornail and remaining inept and scoreless until a journeyman backup came in the game to put up 10 points in the 4th quarter to make a game of it. Our d crapped out and that was that . Norton needs fired regardless this d is not the sum of its parts .

Agreed about the holding call on Brown. I also agree with firing Norton but I wouldn't stop there.

As far as Geno's success goes, we have to keep in mind that the Rams were protecting a two score lead for much of the time so their strategy was to prevent the big play. Additionally, the change of pace from one QB, everything from their cadence to their movements in the pocket, throws the defense for a bit of a loop. That's not to take anything away from Geno. He played extremely well given the circumstances.

[Hawktawk]

The circumstances were coming in on your 1 yard line against a D that routinely kicks Russ’s rear like a red headed step child and methodically driving the team down the field to score and get Seattle right back in the game . He was 5 for 5 and didn’t take a sack . He slid in the pocket ,audibled several times , really got Collins going . It was an incredible drive I did not expect . I really thought the d might respond but when they didn’t he drove the team right back down again . In the end the pick ended the game as lock either tripped or was tripped or something in between . Looks bad for the qb when it happens but not all his fault . I just watched a video of an orthopedic specialist explaining the injury and the treatment options . The best result is to splint it which means out of action 6 to 8 weeks . There are teams that try to put a splint that can be played with on . Third option is do nothing , deal with a deformity for the rest of your life and try to play with a bent finger . It’s entirely possible Russ will miss time , maybe quite a bit . And if he’s not right and still is given the start it’s not gonna help he or the team . I know he’s the toughest qb in the last 10 years but it’s his moneymaker . I will be curious how it plays out .

[RiverDog]

The circumstances were coming in on your 1 yard line against a D that routinely kicks Russ’s rear like a red headed step child and methodically driving the team down the field to score and get Seattle right back in the game . He was 5 for 5 and didn’t take a sack . He slid in the pocket ,audibled several times , really got Collins going . It was an incredible drive I did not expect . I really thought the d might respond but when they didn’t he drove the team right back down again . In the end the pick ended the game as lock either tripped or was tripped or something in between . Looks bad for the qb when it happens but not all his fault . I just watched a video of an orthopedic specialist explaining the injury and the treatment options . The best result is to splint it which means out of action 6 to 8 weeks . There are teams that try to put a splint that can be played with on . Third option is do nothing , deal with a deformity for the rest of your life and try to play with a bent finger . It’s entirely possible Russ will miss time , maybe quite a bit . And if he’s not right and still is given the start it’s not gonna help he or the team . I know he’s the toughest qb in the last 10 years but it’s his moneymaker . I will be curious how it plays out .

I did watch the game so I know what the circumstances were. The Hawks were behind by two scores, 16-7, in the 4th quarter when Geno came in.
The Rams were in a modified prevent defense, not blitzing or playing press coverage, not trying to disguise coverages. They only rushed 4 and gave Geno the underneath routes. With such deep drops, it gave him a lot of open space to scramble.

Take a look at the play-by-play from his TD drive and count how many short passes Geno threw:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/playbyplay/_/gameId/401326395

Not counting a short pass nullified by penalty, I counted 4 on the first drive, which doesn't include the relatively short pass to Metcalf for the TD (LOS was the Ram's 23). That's 4 short passes, 5 runs, and the TD to Metcalf, a 10 play drive. The second drive for the FG was even more heavily skewed towards short passes. Geno threw 8 short passes in 11 plays and took one deep shot that was incomplete.

Geno played well in that he took what the Rams were giving him, but it wasn't a fair assessment of his overall play. Comparing his performance against Russell's is apples vs. oranges.

[Hawktawk]

We will see I guess because Russ is gone

[RiverDog]

We will see I guess because Russ is gone

As bad of news as it is for Russell and us Hawk fans, this is a great opportunity for Geno. He's still only 30 years old, middle aged for a quarterback. If he plays well, it could earn him a starting position somewhere else in the league, similar to what Nick Foles did when Wentz went down.

[Hawktawk]

And not to beat a dead horse RD but the Rams didn’t play prevent defense for 98 yards. They didn’t okay prevent on the second scoring drive . They pressured Geno , he slid around , stayed poised , gashed them with screens beautifully executed , scrambled for yardage . I find it kind of humorous when you aren’t impressed with a 23 yard TD strike , a beautiful dime with touch in tight coverage . I’m not saying what Geno is going to do next game or the one after that . With our line they better sign a backup. But I’m saying what Geno did is remarkable and if he has some of that every week we might be able to hang around with the weak schedule . I’m well aware backups tend to remind us why they are backups . We shall see

[tarlhawk]

One year rental of Deshaun Watson...as insurance? ...J/K.

[obiken]

One year rental of Deshaun Watson...as insurance? ...J/K.

WE dont have the Draft Picks!! Great idea!

[obiken]

Lets be clear, game planning for a GS over a RW is way different gig. He is not Nick Foles or Wentz. Wentz has a way higher ceiling than a Geno Smith. Add to all of this, 5 weeks for RW to get back is WAY over optimistic, you are looking at probably 8 weeks. 4 weeks to just heal from surgery, and just a month to get back to where he can throw and feel comfortable, is minimal IMHO.

[RiverDog]

And not to beat a dead horse RD but the Rams didn’t play prevent defense for 98 yards. They didn’t okay prevent on the second scoring drive . They pressured Geno , he slid around , stayed poised , gashed them with screens beautifully executed , scrambled for yardage . I find it kind of humorous when you aren’t impressed with a 23 yard TD strike , a beautiful dime with touch in tight coverage . I’m not saying what Geno is going to do next game or the one after that . With our line they better sign a backup. But I’m saying what Geno did is remarkable and if he has some of that every week we might be able to hang around with the weak schedule . I’m well aware backups tend to remind us why they are backups . We shall see

The Rams got pressure by rushing 4, and I agree, Geno handled it well. And who said I wasn't impressed with a 23 yard TD strike? I said that Geno was for the most part on target with his passes. Isn't that enough for you or would you rather I be a little more colorful?

The Rams didn't play a full out prevent defense, but they played differently than they did in the first quarter. The object for them was to prevent the quick score, the 30+ yard passes that could get the Hawks back in the game quickly. They wanted to force us to use as many plays and as much clock as possible. Safeties play deeper, linebackers don't take as many chances. It's a different defensive look, a modified prevent.

My point isn't that Geno didn't play well. He did. But the circumstances he played in, which includes things like coming off the bench cold and unexpectedly, not having much reps with the first team offense in practices, and so on, makes the situation not comparable to starting the game after a full week of preparation AND the defense having a full week to game plan against him. It was the 4th quarter of a game that the Hawks trailed by two scores.

[RiverDog]

Lets be clear, game planning for a GS over a RW is way different gig. He is not Nick Foles or Wentz. Wentz has a way higher ceiling than a Geno Smith. Add to all of this, 5 weeks for RW to get back is WAY over optimistic, you are looking at probably 8 weeks. 4 weeks to just heal from surgery, and just a month to get back to where he can throw and feel comfortable, is minimal IMHO.

I agree that 5 weeks for Russell to be out is optimistic. The prognosis is 6-8 weeks. Knowing Russell, he's going to want to come back faster as he's shown in the past that he's not content standing on the sidelines, but I seriously doubt that Pete is going to push for an early return.

Wentz was the starter in Philly and playing at an MVP level when he went down. Like Geno, Foles was a former starter that stepped in and the team didn't skip a beat and went on to win their only Lombardi. Except for the fact that the Eagles had one helluva lot more talent surrounding their QB than we do ours, IMO the situations are very similar.

Although obviously our chances of winning are a lot greater with Russell over center, I don't think we're in all that bad of shape. I liked what I saw out of Geno Thursday night. It will be interesting.

[Hawktawk]

Geno is a better athlete than Wendz and certainly than Foles. He hasn't been injury prone that I'm aware of compared to the china dolls mentioned. But he's been holding the clipboard too. Weve never seen focused mature Geno play football other than a few snaps but he has more physical tools than many backups or journeymen who have won it all. If his head is together he might shock the world.

Lets see. Bring in a backup. He's probably not as tough as Russ.

[tarlhawk]

What we lost besides an elite QB is the way Russel could inspire the whole team...lifting up those around him. Gino demonstrated poise under fire and showed he has been earnestly studying our new offensive scheme as it continues to expand under Shane Waldron. This change in experience/leadership will have an undetermined effect since our team has not been performing to expectations...I think our "new" center Kyle Fuller will feel more of a burden in setting and communicating to the guards and tackles what alignments the opponents Defensive Line is shifting to. Russel was seen making quick verbal adjustments as he made quick reads while coming up under center. A new emphasis on our running game would go a long way toward making Gino's transition an easier one.

No doubt Thursdays game exposed our defensive troubles (from the 3rd qtr moving forward) during a prime time broadcast. That holding call (that erased a Lockett TD just before the half) set in motion an ominous feeling going forward of lost momentum...missed fieldgoal...D. Jack's explosive catch setting them up deep in our territory...Russel's first interception...then an injury to his throwing hand that couldn't be shaken off as its seriousness became more evident the longer he was kept on the sidelines...a look of worry as he realized denial and sheer will power were not going to return him to the game he loves.The two men highlighted in many pre-game broadcasts...Aaron Donald and Jalen Ramsey...helped seal our sense of dread...one indirectly while the other (Ramsey) was a direct nemesis.

[RiverDog]

Geno is a better athlete than Wendz and certainly than Foles. He hasn't been injury prone that I'm aware of compared to the china dolls mentioned. But he's been holding the clipboard too. Weve never seen focused mature Geno play football other than a few snaps but he has more physical tools than many backups or journeymen who have won it all. If his head is together he might shock the world.

Lets see. Bring in a backup. He's probably not as tough as Russ.

I've been reading on the various Hawks Facebook groups of fans wanting us to go sign Cam Newton. That's one of the reasons why I don't like FB for following the Hawks. Too many of the people in those groups are a bunch of rah rah cheerleaders, and it's a waste of time arguing with them. No one on this site has, or will, suggest signing Newton. We all have our different opinions and get on each other's case from time to time, but we're informed football people.

Agreed about Geno's capabilities. It will be an interesting 6-8 weeks.

[Hawktawk]

Newton? Gawd no! Id take coppernipples before that washed up attention W@#re. Bring back someone who has been on the roster and who knows the offense and move on.

[RiverDog]

What we lost besides an elite QB is the way Russel could inspire the whole team...lifting up those around him. Gino demonstrated poise under fire and showed he has been earnestly studying our new offensive scheme as it continues to expand under Shane Waldron. This change in experience/leadership will have an undetermined effect since our team has not been performing to expectations...I think our "new" center Kyle Fuller will feel more of a burden in setting and communicating to the guards and tackles what alignments the opponents Defensive Line is shifting to. Russel was seen making quick verbal adjustments as he made quick reads while coming up under center. A new emphasis on our running game would go a long way toward making Gino's transition an easier one.

No doubt Thursdays game exposed our defensive troubles (from the 3rd qtr moving forward) during a prime time broadcast. That holding call (that erased a Lockett TD just before the half) set in motion an ominous feeling going forward of lost momentum...missed fieldgoal...D. Jack's explosive catch setting them up deep in our territory...Russel's first interception...then an injury to his throwing hand that couldn't be shaken off as its seriousness became more evident the longer he was kept on the sidelines...a look of worry as he realized denial and sheer will power were not going to return him to the game he loves.The two men highlighted in many pre-game broadcasts...Aaron Donald and Jalen Ramsey...helped seal our sense of dread...one indirectly while the other (Ramsey) was a direct nemesis.

Nice post, and for the most part, I agree.

It's hard to tell what effect losing Russell will have on the locker room. Geno has been around for awhile, is a former QB, and has been our backup for a couple of years now. My gut tells me that the guys will rally around him.

One advantage that we have is that we are in a mini bye, so we'll get a couple extra days of practice for Geno to get settled into his new role and develop a rapport with guys like Lockett and Metcalf. Additionally, we're heading into a relative soft spot in our schedule, with the Steelers, Saints, and Jags over the course of the next 3 weeks. We'll see how it goes.