Jamal deal done....

[TriCitySam]

4yrs 70mm

[NorthHawk]

$38M guaranteed.
He basically took the deal the Seahawks offered.

[obiken]

What joke, I would have told him to hit the road toad.

[c_hawkbob]

Not to say I told you so but ...

[RiverDog]

Glad that's out of the way. Now to the more important of the two: Duane Brown.

[c_hawkbob]

Glad that's out of the way. Now to the more important of the two: Duane Brown.

Agreed.

BTW, a link to the Adams deal: https://www.espn.com.au/nfl/story/_/id/ ... -extension

[Aseahawkfan]

Maybe it will be a bargain in a few years. With this kind of investment, I hope to see a substantial improvement in how he is used in the pass defense. I don't want a pass rushing safety other than the occasional blitz, not 100 snaps on the line.

[Agent 86]

Not to say I told you so but ...

Lol, CBob, although I didn't publicly say it, I was in your camp. Just been through so many of these negotiations and in the age of the internet, things get blown waaaay out of proportion and a deal usually gets done at about the time it needs to get done.

Suprised a bit though to see some real knocks on Adams from a few posters. Hope he can make a few peeps on here eat some crow. He is about to turn just 26, his passion and emotion are unquestioned, his athleticism is off the charts, and he is a flat out baller. I know the term "gimmick pass rusher" got used once, which to me is ridiculous. As NorthHawk said, let's see how they deploy him this year and use his talents as last year he was needed way too much to pressure the QB (and did get 9.5 sacks). He is hitting his prime and I know his coverage skills are being questioned, but give the man a chance to show what he can do, don't write him off based on 1 year of what you saw.

Glad this man is in a Seahawks uni for the next 5 years! (and yeah I am on board with giving up the 2 first rounders for him, although I can totally see the argument on that one)

[c_hawkbob]

Thanks 86 and yeah, I don't care what his position is, he's a force on the field that the other team has to account for every single play, and next to Bobby, clearly the best player on our defense. Everyone likes to say his coverage skills are sub par but the man lives in the other teams backfield whether it's a passing down or a running down, besides his sacks his tackles for loss and QB hits are outrageous. You can't watch a game he's playing in and not see him as the major disruptor on the field. He may not be the best cover safety in the league, but the rest of his game more than makes up for it.

[obiken]

Thanks 86 and yeah, I don't care what his position is, he's a force on the field that the other team has to account for every single play, and next to Bobby, clearly the best player on our defense. Everyone likes to say his coverage skills are sub par but the man lives in the other teams backfield whether it's a passing down or a running down, besides his sacks his tackles for loss and QB hits are outrageous. You can't watch a game he's playing in and not see him as the major disruptor on the field. He may not be the best cover safety in the league, but the rest of his game more than makes up for it.

I agree Bob, but I have serious doubts that he can stay healthy, look at Clowney.

[Aseahawkfan]

I agree Bob, but I have serious doubts that he can stay healthy, look at Clowney.

And what are we going to have to pay Quandre Diggs? He is a better ball hawk and cover safety than Adams. He's looking across at Adams getting paid 17.5 million. How much will he ask for now?

Diggs has 14 interceptions in 6 years to Adams 2 in 4 years.

Is 14 ints worth more than 9.5 safety sacks? We will see.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

My contention when the proposed, and ultimately accepted deal, came out was that it was a fair offer and was hoping the Seahawks would hold the line. Glad they did and glad Adams came to his senses, but I am cautiously optimistic. 17.5 million per year warrants more than sacks and lapses in pass coverage. I will be happy to admit my concerns were over blown should he live up to the contract.

That's an interesting point, Asea, especially if Diggs is perceived to out-perform Adams. May not be able to keep him if that is the case.

[RiverDog]

That's an interesting point, Asea, especially if Diggs is perceived to out-perform Adams. May not be able to keep him if that is the case.

Let's cross that bridge when we come to it. For now, Adams is in the fold at the contract price we stated was our final offer and we've staved off the Grim Reaper for a time. Next on the pallet has to be getting Duane Brown on board.

[Aseahawkfan]

Let's cross that bridge when we come to it. For now, Adams is in the fold at the contract price we stated was our final offer and we've staved off the Grim Reaper for a time. Next on the pallet has to be getting Duane Brown on board.

I'll hope for the best. But in my opinion, this defense works best with an Earl-type safety. That guy who can cover the back end and back up the corners. So far Jamal Adams isn't that guy. I hope he can improve in coverage because in this league passing is king.

[obiken]

I'll hope for the best. But in my opinion, this defense works best with an Earl-type safety. That guy who can cover the back end and back up the corners. So far Jamal Adams isn't that guy. I hope he can improve in coverage because in this league passing is king.

Man we are on a roll, I have never agreed with you so much in my life! The Earl type safety that can rotate coverage I agree is better. I am not saying Bob is wrong, JA has made some good plays in the Backfield, but we need a real Safety not a quasi OLB.

[RiverDog]

Let's cross that bridge when we come to it. For now, Adams is in the fold at the contract price we stated was our final offer and we've staved off the Grim Reaper for a time. Next on the pallet has to be getting Duane Brown on board.

I'll hope for the best. But in my opinion, this defense works best with an Earl-type safety. That guy who can cover the back end and back up the corners. So far Jamal Adams isn't that guy. I hope he can improve in coverage because in this league passing is king.

I understand and agree with the concern, but at least for the time being, I'm still trusting Pete when it comes to defense. If he thinks that Adams is the key to his new defense, and with a historic investment in one player (highest paid safety, 2 #1's and a #3), he obviously thinks that Adams is his man, then that's good enough for me.

But Adams had better be God damn good, our defense needs to perform a lot better than that sham we put on the field last season, and we'd better go deep into the playoffs and not get embarrassed like we did at the end of last season.

[NorthHawk]

People seem to be stuck on Adams role to be like ET was. They are two different types of players and I think Adams will be given a lot more freedom than many of us expect.
I get that take just from how Pete talked about Adams immediately after the trade, but it's just the impression I got at the time, so who knows. It might be he's in more of a
hybrid model between ET's role and a Rover type depending on the Defense that's called. Probably more blitzing or threatening to blitz than ET ever did but a lot less than last year.

[Aseahawkfan]

People seem to be stuck on Adams role to be like ET was. They are two different types of players and I think Adams will be given a lot more freedom than many of us expect.
I get that take just from how Pete talked about Adams immediately after the trade, but it's just the impression I got at the time, so who knows. It might be he's in more of a
hybrid model between ET's role and a Rover type depending on the Defense that's called. Probably more blitzing or threatening to blitz than ET ever did but a lot less than last year.

I'm focused on his comparison to ET because that is what makes Pete's defense work really well.

I'm surprised more people have not read the article that explains Pete's defense. How it works and what kind of players are ideal. One of the cornerstones of Pete's defense is a cover safety. His defense is built using the idea that you have physical corners who jam off the line and push the WRs to the center of the field where the very good cover safety helps with coverage to prevent them from deep plays or gaining lots of yards. Earl was pretty much the ideal type of safety for Pete's defense.

Nowhere in Pete's defense or any defense I've ever seen work really well has pass rushing safety been desirable. If you understand defense, you know why: because a safety playing on the line removes that safety from coverage weakening your pass defense. We saw that last year where your good pass rushing safety gets flashy sacks, while quality QBs kill you in coverage because your safety is trying to sack the QB.

I hope not to see Jamal racking up sack numbers this year. I want to see him used in coverage. Maybe it was desperation last year to line him up on the line that much. That is what I hope. I want to see some of these high pick D-line guys we have step up and get pressure without our safety having to play off the line while we get ripped apart in passing because we don't have strong coverage.

But we'll see. Each season the team has a chance to prove the naysayers wrong. I'm usually pretty positive on the Seahawks. I'm starting to see what I consider mistakes that are making a team that may make the playoffs because we have an elite franchise QB, but the team around him is lacking because pieces aren't being replenished through the draft like pass rushers, corners, and the like and we are paying a lot for pieces that aren't ideal for what Pete wants to do like a pass rushing strong safety that doesn't help your 31st ranked passing defense.

We just paid an immense amount of money for a guy that helped us to a 31st ranked passing defense and 4560 total passing yards allowed, a 22nd ranked total yards defense, and a 15th ranked points allowed defense. Just not great. That was playing against a weak QB line up.

Seriously, go look at the line up of QB killers that ripped us up in 2020. Terrible group of QBs. Best guy was probably Josh Allen and he ripped us apart and Kyler Murray.

I hope to not see our pass rush so bad that Adams is being relied to generate pressure because that's going to mean more compromised coverage with a likely tougher schedule. Stafford may not be great, but he's a step up from what the Rams had the last few years. Kyler has another year under his belt. San Francisco will likely suck, but we don't want to be making their rook QB look good.

[NorthHawk]

Pete's Defense changed last year with all the blitzing including Wagner the last few years, so he's not necessarily stuck to one formula. As well, he has changed his tune on the size of the Corners and even drafted Tre Brown,
who doesn't meet that physical requirement of 5 -10 years ago. However he's always loved a dynamic Safety who can do many things and that's what Adams gives the Defense.
He may play closer to the line and last year might be a blessing because now even if he's not blitzing, the Offenses will have to account for him in case he does. It changes their game plan and can give our Defense an edge.

[obiken]

Okay here's my problem. We live and die on RW making plays, RW comes out and says he needs help on the OLine what does he get? Nothing. Then he goes full tilt for Brown, and we sign JA, what happens next year when Metcalf comes due. Its like PC doesnt care what Russ really thinks, but pretends to. I'm starting to feel if Russ is playing for us in 2023 I will be shocked.

[NorthHawk]

There's still time to address the LT issue. It's just a matter of coming up with the money.
According to Over the Cap, his Cap hit drops from $9,600,000 to $5,000,00 this year (not sure how that works, but I'll take it).
So there might be some more money for Duane Brown. Sign him to a 2 or 3 year extension with voidable years.

[curmudgeon]

I'm starting to feel if Russ is playing for us in 2023 I will be shocked.

I believe Wilson, Carroll and Schneider will all be gone by 2023……

[c_hawkbob]

Okay here's my problem. We live and die on RW making plays, RW comes out and says he needs help on the OLine what does he get? Nothing. Then he goes full tilt for Brown, and we sign JA, what happens next year when Metcalf comes due. Its like PC doesnt care what Russ really thinks, but pretends to. I'm starting to feel if Russ is playing for us in 2023 I will be shocked.

I would say "shocked" but on this point I do share your concern.

[RiverDog]

Okay here's my problem. We live and die on RW making plays, RW comes out and says he needs help on the OLine what does he get? Nothing. Then he goes full tilt for Brown, and we sign JA, what happens next year when Metcalf comes due. Its like PC doesnt care what Russ really thinks, but pretends to. I'm starting to feel if Russ is playing for us in 2023 I will be shocked.

I wouldn't say that we didn't do anything to improve our OL. We traded for a solid, experienced starting guard in Gabe Jackson. And don't look now, but the Hawks OL isn't as bad as Russell might have you believe. PFF graded them out as the 14th best overall, 16th in the passing game:

The Seahawks’ offensive line ranked 16th as a unit in pass-blocking grade this season. That may not appear all that impressive on the surface, but it’s the highest they’ve ranked in that area since Russell Wilson has been in Seattle.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2020 ... e-rankings

Waldron's offense is supposed to include more short, quick passing designed to get the ball out of Russell's hands faster, so those numbers should improve, plus we should have both Carson and Penny healthy for the start of the season. If we re-sign Brown and Pocic can nail down the center position, the other 3 positions don't look bad, with Lewis at RG, Shell at RT, and Jackson at LG. Toss in Everett and Dissley at tight end and our OL could end up being one of the team's strengths.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

River just said it as I was writing mine. I think they are listening to Russ about the oline not to mention surrounding him with playmakers at WR. Wilson may not be here in a year or two, but that is t exactly uncommon.

As for Adams, I think Asea nailed it in his post. I sincerely hope we see less of Wagner and much less of Adams blitzing. I don’t believe that was what he wanted to do last season and was more desperation get pressure.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Adams was also 35-45 on completions allowed for 411 yards. That’s over 10 yards a completion at about a 77% completion rate. Have to get those numbers improved.

[Aseahawkfan]

Pete's Defense changed last year with all the blitzing including Wagner the last few years, so he's not necessarily stuck to one formula. As well, he has changed his tune on the size of the Corners and even drafted Tre Brown,
who doesn't meet that physical requirement of 5 -10 years ago. However he's always loved a dynamic Safety who can do many things and that's what Adams gives the Defense.
He may play closer to the line and last year might be a blessing because now even if he's not blitzing, the Offenses will have to account for him in case he does. It changes their game plan and can give our Defense an edge.

You mean stuck to a formula that generated one of the most elite defenses of all time and a record four straight number one points allowed defenses? You mean that formula?

It has nothing to do with a formula and everything to do with how pass coverage is structured. There are reasons why in a 4-3 with the structure Pete uses you don't want a pass rushing safety or MLB. The advantage of the 4-3 is you get pressure with your front four and your back seven form a strong pass coverage shell that pushes as often as possible everything to the middle where your MLB and/or safeties kill it. That is why Pete's defense was so successful when he could get pass pressure with his front four.

3-4s are the type of defenses that use tricky blitzes with their three down linemen with a fourth pass rusher LB that can come from either side.

The structure of these defenses have held up all these years because they work the way they work very well. And pass rushing safety who lines up a 100 times on the line is not part of either defense for very good reasons.

[Aseahawkfan]

Okay here's my problem. We live and die on RW making plays, RW comes out and says he needs help on the OLine what does he get? Nothing. Then he goes full tilt for Brown, and we sign JA, what happens next year when Metcalf comes due. Its like PC doesnt care what Russ really thinks, but pretends to. I'm starting to feel if Russ is playing for us in 2023 I will be shocked.

Yep.

Russ is the reason every year we have a shot. He can take nobodies and give you a shot like he did in 2014 where we lost our starting receivers and signed some guy named Chris to compete in the Super Bowl against the Patriots who Russ made look like Randy Moss.

You got Russ as your QB, you got a shot almost every year. No one prepares better or harder physically, mentally, and for him spiritually.

But it's real hard to compete in the playoffs unless Pete rebuilds some semblance of that incredible defense he built when he first arrived. It's impossible to ask for another legendary level of play like the LoB group, but man, something closer and in the top 10 and we could make a real run.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

It's also hard to compete in the playoffs when you telegraph a WR screen for a pick 6 and then proceed to do nothing offensively the rest of the game. Yeah, the oline has issues, but he didn't come through in the clutch. Maybe that's offensive play calling, maybe it's Russ not willing to take shorter completions, but the offense had multiple opportunities to get back in the game and didn't, and Wilson's stat line was awful, even more so by taking off that garbage time td to Metcalf. The offense has plenty of blame to take in not being prepared to play in the playoffs.

Just as the defense, namely the LOB, had to bail out the O for wins sometimes, the offensive has to do it too, and Wilson has some serious playmakers to do that with. The defense does need to be in the top half of the league, for sure, but there's no excuse for looking that badly in the most important game of the season.

[NorthHawk]

The structure of these defenses have held up all these years because they work the way they work very well. And pass rushing safety who lines up a 100 times on the line is not part of either defense for very good reasons

We also have changed to using more nickel and dime formations. A few years ago almost 75% of the defensive formations had only 2 LBs.
This along with changing physical characteristics of DBs tells us Pete isn’t locked in on one defensive scheme or player type even if the “base
defense” is a 4-3 under.

I’ve never said I expect Adams to be a continuous or primary pass rusher this year, but I can see him being moving up to the LOS as to
force the Offenses to change their play or blocking assignments. I can also see him being more of a “rover” type of safety where the QB has to take into account his whereabouts. I don’t think he’s going to be a traditional Safety much like Pete used Palomalu (sp) at USC.

[c_hawkbob]

This is not a cookie cutter defense. Pete looks for unusual skill sets and figures out how to incorporate them into his defense and make it work with the people he's got. We didn't replace Brandon Browner with another SS looking Corner that hit like a LB, we didn't replace Earl with another Earl (couldn't, there ain't another Earl), or Kam with another Kam. He'll use Jamal in a way that best utilizes his specific unique skill set and it won't look like any other defense he's had because Jamal is not like any other player he's had. I know there was a popular article specifying how Pete needed such and such and so and so kind of players to be successful, but the dude was wrong. Bad bandwagon to jump on.

[Aseahawkfan]

We also have changed to using more nickel and dime formations. A few years ago almost 75% of the defensive formations had only 2 LBs.
This along with changing physical characteristics of DBs tells us Pete isn’t locked in on one defensive scheme or player type even if the “base
defense” is a 4-3 under.

I’ve never said I expect Adams to be a continuous or primary pass rusher this year, but I can see him being moving up to the LOS as to
force the Offenses to change their play or blocking assignments. I can also see him being more of a “rover” type of safety where the QB has to take into account his whereabouts. I don’t think he’s going to be a traditional Safety much like Pete used Palomalu (sp) at USC.

A nickel or dime corner is still a 4-3 with seven in coverage. The fact we were using nickel and dime coverage so much is another indicator that pass coverage is more important than ever. You weaken your pass coverage putting your safety on the line that much. It's not even debatable.

If Pete paid Jamal Adams to line up a 100 times on the line, then that deal is stupid. If Adams is used more as a safety is supposed to be used in coverage, then the money will be worth it. Jamal Adams should vastly improve our secondary in pass coverage with some run defense as well since he is a strong safety. That is what premium dollars at safety should pay for.

[Aseahawkfan]

This is not a cookie cutter defense. Pete looks for unusual skill sets and figures out how to incorporate them into his defense and make it work with the people he's got. We didn't replace Brandon Browner with another SS looking Corner that hit like a LB, we didn't replace Earl with another Earl (couldn't, there ain't another Earl), or Kam with another Kam. He'll use Jamal in a way that best utilizes his specific unique skill set and it won't look like any other defense he's had because Jamal is not like any other player he's had. I know there was a popular article specifying how Pete needed such and such and so and so kind of players to be successful, but the dude was wrong. Bad bandwagon to jump on.

It wasn't an article on how Pete needed specific players do do his defense. It was an article explaining how Pete's defense worked and the ideal players for each. It was put together with quotes from Pete himself explaining his defense and how it works. It was a technical analysis with quotes and information from Pete about defensive philosophy and how the type of 4-3 Pete uses works. It was over 11 years ago when Pete first arrived. He did modify his defense with positions like the LEO because the ideal DE for a 4-3 is usually bigger, but Pete used a guy like Clay Matthews in the LEO position which was more like a 3-4 LB. It wasn't ideal, but he used it. There is no question Pete can modify the defense and did for different schemes. But the bottom line is pass rushing safety was nowhere in that list. It's not an ideal way to use your safety in a 4-3 defense with the type of coverage advantage a 4-3 normally provides.

If Jamal isn't being used more in a coverage, this defense is going to get torched. I don't care how many people try to tell me Pete's magic is going to make Jamal Adams pass rushing be as good as pressure from the front four because I am not buying it. 4-3 gets pressure from the front four. The 7 man pass coverage is the main advantage of a 4-3, especially in this passing league. Jamal covering the TE and helping with the pass coverage is far more important than Adams setting safety sack records.

That's what I want to see this year. I really hope last year was desperation to get pressure because of how bad our front four was. But this year all these draft picks along with Dunlap and the guy we picked from Frisco should be enough to get pressure so Adams can do what you pay big money for a safety to do: cover.

[Aseahawkfan]

It's also hard to compete in the playoffs when you telegraph a WR screen for a pick 6 and then proceed to do nothing offensively the rest of the game. Yeah, the oline has issues, but he didn't come through in the clutch. Maybe that's offensive play calling, maybe it's Russ not willing to take shorter completions, but the offense had multiple opportunities to get back in the game and didn't, and Wilson's stat line was awful, even more so by taking off that garbage time td to Metcalf. The offense has plenty of blame to take in not being prepared to play in the playoffs.

Just as the defense, namely the LOB, had to bail out the O for wins sometimes, the offensive has to do it too, and Wilson has some serious playmakers to do that with. The defense does need to be in the top half of the league, for sure, but there's no excuse for looking that badly in the most important game of the season.

Sure, Russ has to step up in clutch time in the playoffs. But we aren't even in the playoffs without Russ, so not much you can do about that. Hopefully a strong emphasis on the short pass shifts Russ's game a bit. One thing Russ has to do is learn to take what is available and do it quick. We all love he can run around and make the big play, but guys like Manning and Brady have made their money passing on time in the short to medium game. Just keep moving those sticks quick and efficiently.

[Hawktawk]

It's also hard to compete in the playoffs when you telegraph a WR screen for a pick 6 and then proceed to do nothing offensively the rest of the game. Yeah, the oline has issues, but he didn't come through in the clutch. Maybe that's offensive play calling, maybe it's Russ not willing to take shorter completions, but the offense had multiple opportunities to get back in the game and didn't, and Wilson's stat line was awful, even more so by taking off that garbage time td to Metcalf. The offense has plenty of blame to take in not being prepared to play in the playoffs.

Just as the defense, namely the LOB, had to bail out the O for wins sometimes, the offensive has to do it too, and Wilson has some serious playmakers to do that with. The defense does need to be in the top half of the league, for sure, but there's no excuse for looking that badly in the most important game of the season.

Yeah this here^^^russ is one of the best dual threat qbs that ever played . His bust is gonna be in canton . But he’s the biggest question mark coming into this season. He was dreadful down the stretch 11-29 in the Rams game with the brutal pick 6. There were unnamed GMs saying he was panicking , running into pressure etc. we know what we’re getting from adams if healthy . I want to see good Russ , great Russ .add in all the drama It’s the biggest question for me