NFL Covid rule

[c_hawkbob]

The NFL just informed clubs that if a game cannot be rescheduled during the 18-week season in 2021 due to a COVID outbreak among unvaccinated players, the team with the outbreak will FORFEIT and be credited with a loss for playoff seeding, per sources.

The NFL ain't playing around this year!

[jshawaii22]

But there still are somewhere around 30% of the players (down from 40% 2 weeks ago) that either don't care and haven't shown a lot of interest in getting poked. Even thought there is a 'deal' in place that teams can't cut unvaxed players, you know that's not going to matter to the teams when decisions on the bottom 70% of the roster cuts come in.

I wish I could pressure my wife with something like this.

[obiken]

But there still are somewhere around 30% of the players (down from 40% 2 weeks ago) that either don't care and haven't shown a lot of interest in getting poked. Even thought there is a 'deal' in place that teams can't cut unvaxed players, you know that's not going to matter to the teams when decisions on the bottom 70% of the roster cuts come in.

I wish I could pressure my wife with something like this.

Sorry nothing against your wife, but people who dont get vaccinated at this point are just plain stupid. My brother Ron and his wife are both Liberals, who are anti vaccine people. Hopkins is threatening to retire over this policy, adios amigos. I have zero sympathy for these people.

[jshawaii22]

Sorry nothing against your wife, but people who dont get vaccinated at this point are just plain stupid

You want to fly out here and tell her that in person? I'll hold her down for 'ya.

[RiverDog]

The NFL just informed clubs that if a game cannot be rescheduled during the 18-week season in 2021 due to a COVID outbreak among unvaccinated players, the team with the outbreak will FORFEIT and be credited with a loss for playoff seeding, per sources.

The NFL ain't playing around this year!

Works for me. Whatever it takes to get needles into arms.

Is there any reason why individual teams can't mandate that all their players/staff get vaccinated?

[NorthHawk]

If there are any games played outside of the US, it will probably impact anyone traveling for it including players.
There is a good possibility that those who aren't vaccinated wouldn't be permitted into that host country.
This affects a teams ability to win and with the other statements made by the NFL, it might be that they would
lose a paycheck for that game as well.
If I was running a team and the choice was between two players of relatively equal value, I would keep the vaccinated
player and cut the non vaccinated player for two reasons. One is the availability of a player for 17 weeks and beyond
and the other is the players desire to win or help win.

[c_hawkbob]

Is there any reason why individual teams can't mandate that all their players/staff get vaccinated?

Other than political? I don't believe so.

[RiverDog]

Is there any reason why individual teams can't mandate that all their players/staff get vaccinated?

Other than political? I don't believe so.

My only thought is that there has been some reluctance amongst employers, including the US military, to mandate that all of their employees be vaccinated because none of the vaccines have received full FDA approval.

I would really like to see the NFL take the lead in this area by requiring as a term of employment that all of their players and staff be vaccinated. Perhaps that would encourage other employers to follow suit.

[NorthHawk]

They probably know how many of the higher profile players aren't getting vaccinated and if the
number is significant, it could cause some real PR problems that I'm sure they don't want to get
involved with. So they are putting pressure on teams from the edges (so to speak) and not
directly addressing it.

[obiken]

Covid doesn’t care about your feelings or your rights, and neither do billion dollar corporations.

[RiverDog]

Interesting that there's 13 teams with a vaccination rate of 85%+, but a few teams..Colts, Cards, Chargers, and WFT, two of which are below 50%.

There's some other protocols that teams are using to pressure players into getting vaccinated:

Maaddi notes that teams are required to have a method of easily identifying vaccinated individuals (Ex. credentials, color-coded wristbands, etc.). While fully vaccinated players face relaxed protocols this season, unvaccinated players will be required to undergo daily testing, wear masks and practice social distancing. Other restrictions include not being allowed to eat meals with teammates, participate in media or marketing activities while traveling, using the sauna or steam room and being confined to the team hotel while traveling. Vaccinated players have no such restrictions.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/two- ... er-report/

You'd have to be a pretty principled anti vaxxer to adhere to those protocols.

[jshawaii22]

The Vikings fired an O-Line/Running game coach today as he refused to get the poke, so it's starting. No players yet, but with training camp started for some teams and close for the others, we should see more of this very soon.

[Aseahawkfan]

That is harsh. I hope most Seattle players get vaccinated.

I have a lot of younger people at my job who don't want to get vaccinated because they've already had it and more than a few older and younger with the belief "the vaccine is political or some secret corporate/government evil plan or some thing to kill minorities" crowd. I'm pushing them as much as I can to get the vaccine. They don't want to do it for various reasons. I've been exposed to COVID19 6 times I know of and I've had it twice, once pre-vaccine and once post-vaccine. Post-vaccine was much milder symptoms as advertised. Pre-vaccine it was a bad chest cold.

I get that NFL players are very low risk of hospitalization or death given they are younger and in great shape, but this isn't just about your personal risk. People should get vaccinated to help the effort to eradicate or slow this virus to equally participate in this great science experiment to beat a global pandemic sharing the risk.
For the vast majority of people the vaccine is a very low risk-high reward method of helping eliminate the virus. There is little to no risk the vaccine does them any harm and there is a high likelihood that it provides additional protection from the virus and will provide protection for their loved ones who may well be more vulnerable than them.

Be interesting to see how this plays out as I expect a lot of lawsuits if teams try to force vaccination as NFL players have lots of money and lawyers as well as a union. Could be rough to force players to get vaccinated, especially given the vaccines only have emergency approval and not full approval. But then again lawsuits take time and that could require players to lose a lot of money before the lawsuit gets settled. If players are forced to choose between money and getting a low risk vaccine, they might choose the vaccine.

It certainly isn't helping right now that everyone that is vaccinated that gets the virus again keeps posting that they're vaccinated and still got the virus. I hear this excuse used by people, "So and so was vaccinated and still got sick. It doesn't work." The counter is obviously, "But not as sick as they would when unvaccinated." That doesn't work near as well as people posting they were vaccinated and still got sick. That's the only point they remember.

If we have NFL players forced to vaccinate, then they still test positive or get sick and post on social media I wonder if that will be used as evidence in anti-vaccination lawsuits. I guess we'll see in time.

Training camp is about to start. We'll see if this rule works and if the lawsuits start flying. NFL will be a real good testing ground as you have millionaires with plenty of money to launch lawsuits and a powerful union who can negotiate vaccine rules. At the very least this could set precedent for the rest of the country if the NFL sorts this out in the courts.

[RiverDog]

Be interesting to see how this plays out as I expect a lot of lawsuits if teams try to force vaccination as NFL players have lots of money and lawyers as well as a union. Could be rough to force players to get vaccinated, especially given the vaccines only have emergency approval and not full approval. But then again lawsuits take time and that could require players to lose a lot of money before the lawsuit gets settled. If players are forced to choose between money and getting a low risk vaccine, they might choose the vaccine.

They'd be fighting an uphill battle. Courts have consistently ruled that employers can mandate vaccinations with the exception of those employees with medical disabilities or sincerely held religious beliefs, the most recent of which was Houston Methodist's court case that was decided last month. In their decision, the court cited the EEOC's policy statement that reaffirms employer's right to require that their employees be vaccinated.

I'm glad that the NFL is being aggressive with their vaccination policy. I wish that other companies and organizations would do likewise so we could put a stop to this anti vaccine madness.

[Aseahawkfan]

They'd be fighting an uphill battle. Courts have consistently ruled that employers can mandate vaccinations with the exception of those employees with medical disabilities or sincerely held religious beliefs, the most recent of which was Houston Methodist's court case that was decided last month. In their decision, the court cited the EEOC's policy statement that reaffirms employer's right to require that their employees be vaccinated.

I'm glad that the NFL is being aggressive with their vaccination policy. I wish that other companies and organizations would do likewise so we could put a stop to this anti vaccine madness.

The courts have, but this is a different situation than an FDA approved vaccine with years of data and development as has been stated. That may affect the lawsuits. They will bring evidence like vaccinated people getting sick and even dying as proof. The court battle would be interesting to watch to see what evidence they present and what professionals they bring in to support their case. Is there even a good amount of evidence to support an anti-vaccination case? Let's get a nice public trial and see what comes of it. Hire some charismatic pro-vaccination lawyers. Post it on TV so all can watch the pro and con side clearly laid out and hopefully the pro-vaccination evidence will speak for itself and win the day. A persuasive public court case would be good marketing on top of everything else that we are doing.

[RiverDog]

The courts have, but this is a different situation than an FDA approved vaccine with years of data and development as has been stated. That may affect the lawsuits. They will bring evidence like vaccinated people getting sick and even dying as proof. The court battle would be interesting to watch to see what evidence they present and what professionals they bring in to support their case. Is there even a good amount of evidence to support an anti-vaccination case? Let's get a nice public trial and see what comes of it. Hire some charismatic pro-vaccination lawyers. Post it on TV so all can watch the pro and con side clearly laid out and hopefully the pro-vaccination evidence will speak for itself and win the day. A persuasive public court case would be good marketing on top of everything else that we are doing.

There have been 2.5 BILLION doses of just the Pfizer vaccine administered worldwide. That far exceeds any other vaccine of the past 30 years. Their data is rock solid and bullet proof. There is no way anyone would be able to challenge the safety and/or efficacy of any of the FDA approved Covid vaccines. The only hope they have is to argue that a mandatory vaccination is an infringement on individual rights or liberties.

There's not many vaccinated people that have been hospitalized by Covid and even less that have died from it. If there are, please post your information. There's a 99+% guarantee that if you get the vaccine, you won't die from Covid.

[Aseahawkfan]

There have been 2.5 BILLION doses of just the Pfizer vaccine administered worldwide. That far exceeds any other vaccine of the past 30 years. Their data is rock solid and bullet proof. There is no way anyone would be able to challenge the safety and/or efficacy of any of the FDA approved Covid vaccines. The only hope they have is to argue that a mandatory vaccination is an infringement on individual rights or liberties.

There's not many vaccinated people that have been hospitalized by Covid and even less that have died from it. If there are, please post your information. There's a 99+% guarantee that if you get the vaccine, you won't die from Covid.

I'm following this closely at the moment. The death count is usually a lagging indicator, so far it hasn't spiked anywhere near to past levels. But it is spiking with 99.5% of deaths coming from unvaccinated people according to various sources. The raw numbers coming in the next few weeks to a month or so will be more telling as to how bad this Delta Variant is or if anything changes from what we already know.

It has dropped down to a low of 258 per day or so and now it has spiked back up to 500 a day. The data is up and down right now. It's nowhere near the 4000 plus a day it peaked at back in January. But deaths are a lagging indicator and we have a huge spike in cases. So we will see what happens soon enough. 500 per day is around 180,000 deaths a year from COVID. Which is still terrible.

Just wish these dumbasses would just get vaccinated. If the deaths spike, then maybe they will have to take more extreme measures.

[Aseahawkfan]

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm

Here is a raw number tool for seeing deaths by age and sex that shows total and month by month. No carefully crafted news articles, just raw numbers to assess the efficacy of vaccination for yourself. The vaccine works really, really well with minimal to no side effects. It reduces the death and hospitalization rate. It is absolutely the key to beating this virus. The raw numbers with no spin doctors necessary to spruce it up or play it down.

Just follow the numbers month to month from January and you'll see how good the vaccine works.

[RiverDog]

I'm following this closely at the moment. The death count is usually a lagging indicator, so far it hasn't spiked anywhere near to past levels. But it is spiking with 99.5% of deaths coming from unvaccinated people according to various sources. The raw numbers coming in the next few weeks to a month or so will be more telling as to how bad this Delta Variant is or if anything changes from what we already know.

It has dropped down to a low of 258 per day or so and now it has spiked back up to 500 a day. The data is up and down right now. It's nowhere near the 4000 plus a day it peaked at back in January. But deaths are a lagging indicator and we have a huge spike in cases. So we will see what happens soon enough. 500 per day is around 180,000 deaths a year from COVID. Which is still terrible.

Just wish these dumbasses would just get vaccinated. If the deaths spike, then maybe they will have to take more extreme measures.

We're starting to venture a little off topic, but that's fine with me. Not enough traffic in here to worry about diluting the forum with OT threads.

I've been watching the numbers closely, too. The good news is that vaccinations are starting to tick up again, rising 14% nation wide over the past week, higher than that in hot spots like the Deep South, Nevada, and Missouri. Some of the politicians have started to ramp up their rhetoric. Alabama's Governor recently said "Folks are supposed to have common sense. But it's time to start blaming the unvaccinated folks, not the regular folks. It's the unvaccinated folks that are letting us down." Louisiana Gov John Bel Edwards used similar language trying to get his point across. Perhaps this Delta variant is starting to scare people.

I really don't expect to see a whole lot of lawsuits filed over forced vaccinations. Lawsuits are expensive, and unions and other groups don't want to throw their money away if the odds are so heavily stacked against them, and not many lawyers wants their "batting average" affected by striking out on a lawsuit that they have no chance of winning.

Most of the struggle with companies requiring their employees to get vaccinated is internal. The labor situation is so dire that they can't afford to have a even a small percentage of employees quit over being forced to get a jab. The NFL can get away with it for obvious reasons. No one in their right mind is going to throw away millions because they don't want to get poked. The league doesn't care if a player quits as there's thousands of others more than willing to step forward and take their place. That's not the case for most other businesses.

One thing that will help is gaining full FDA approval for the vaccines. Both Pfizer and Moderna have applied for full approval over 6 weeks ago, but it can take up to 6 months to get a decision, which would push it out to the first of next year. Polls show that it would help some people overcome their hesitancy, but the real impact would be that it would give employers, school districts, organizations, and government agencies more justification to mandate vaccinations.

If insurance companies started raising their premiums for people that refused a vaccination, I'll bet that would motivate more people to get their jab. Money talks, BS walks.

[NorthHawk]

I didn't see anything relating to hospitalization rates from the link. Maybe I just didn't look hard enough.
Up here it's an important metric as it tells the tale of where we are going with this virus.
So far, the hospitalization rates are about the same but the virus cases have increased 3 fold.
That tells us that the vaccines are working to suppress the symptoms and severity even with the Delta variant.
And like you we still have some dumbasses who don't believe it's real and never will believe it.

[RiverDog]

I didn't see anything relating to hospitalization rates from the link. Maybe I just didn't look hard enough.
Up here it's an important metric as it tells the tale of where we are going with this virus.
So far, the hospitalization rates are about the same but the virus cases have increased 3 fold.
That tells us that the vaccines are working to suppress the symptoms and severity even with the Delta variant.
And like you we still have some dumbasses who don't believe it's real and never will believe it.

Hospitalizations in the US have gone up in recent weeks. According to the US Department of Health and Human Services, there's been a 26% increase from last week and a 50% rise from two weeks ago. 97% of the hospitalizations and 99.5% of the deaths are amongst the unvaccinated, about as good of a testimonial for the efficacy of the vaccines as you can get and shows that at least so far, it's working even against the variants.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/19/health/u ... index.html

I do think that the tide is beginning to shift just a little. Fox News, home of the biggest anti vaxxer on the planet in Tucker Carlson, re-broadcasted a PSA earlier this week encouraging people to get vaccinated. On Monday, a clip of Sean Hannity telling people to take Covid seriously and that he believes in vaccination science went viral, and the network has implemented a vaccine passport of sorts that treats employees that can prove they're vaccinated differently than those that don't disclose their vaccination status.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/07 ... e-coverage

[Hawk Sista]

The data I have seen overwhelmingly illuminates three major points:

1. Vaccinated people rarely get Covid, but if they do, they are not the group inundating hospitals, meaning the vaxed patient who may get Covid has symptoms that are far less severe. 97% of hospitalized Covid patients are unvaxed. Ever wonder if you had a medical emergency and couldn’t get proper care because ER rooms are filled? This happened to my family.

2. 99%+ of those dying from Covid are, again, unvaxed.

3. The vaccine guards against the highly transmitted Delta variant.

It is beyond me why scads of people refuse to protect themselves and others. I am beyond sick of the losses we have experienced over the last year. I have lost 4 people i loved, and my Mom is VERY diminished. And, when we speak of loss, it’s not just death and major illness. Connectedness, work, travel, common sense, and so much more - including the revenue which represents available cap space and subsequently, salaries for all NFL staff, including the players. Eff Beasly, Hopkins and the like. Their selfishness, and that of others who refuse the jab, complicate our ability to achieve some semblance of a return to”normalcy!” Canada closed its borders to US!

I stood by a guy yesterday who wore a shirt that read unmasked, unvaxed, unafraid. He was also talking with a like-minded soul (idiot) behind him referring to the vaxed and masked as sheep. I wanted to punch him in the face, particularly yesterday which was my friend’s birthday. He would have been 51. If anyone is in the sheep category, it’s the crowd that listens to crazy entertainment shows dressed up like news and believe what is spewed at them all day. Tucker Carlson, for example. I’ll bet that dude is even vaxed. The perpetrators of this deception have blood on their hands.

[Hawk Sista]

Must have been typing at the same time, RD. Thanks for the links.

It is good that conservative politicians are starting to encourage vaccines. Very good. Even Hannity and others on FOX are advising Americans to take Covid seriously and to get inoculated. I’m NO Trump fan, but had he taken the virus seriously, shared his near death experience, celebrated with the success of getting a vaccine ready in under a year (even though any President would have), his dumb ass may still be President. His vanity cost him the Oval Office and who knows how many lives and additional needless extension of limitations on our lives.

To the original point, I’m glad that the NFL is taking a strong stance as are teams. As has been indicated, at least two teams have excused or sidelined unvaxed coaches. And forfeiting a game, and the associated pay, ought to be a driver. WTG, NFL (though I realize they are more concerned with $$$ than taking a stand).

[NorthHawk]

I don’t much care for Ariens, but the Bucs are taking an aggressive posture regarding unvaccinated players.
$14,000 fine for every violation of covid protocols.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... ol-breach/

[c_hawkbob]

And the update is that the NFL has made made it $14,650 league wide: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... iolations/

[NorthHawk]

Something that’s not talked about much is the effect on gambling revenues of non
vaccinated players. There might be a drop off in action if there is doubt about players
availability or if there was to be an outbreak on a team or in the league. It’s bad enough
with injuries so they don’t want to compound it with something that’s controllable.

[RiverDog]

It is beyond me why scads of people refuse to protect themselves and others. I am beyond sick of the losses we have experienced over the last year. I have lost 4 people i loved, and my Mom is VERY diminished. And, when we speak of loss, it’s not just death and major illness. Connectedness, work, travel, common sense, and so much more - including the revenue which represents available cap space and subsequently, salaries for all NFL staff, including the players. Eff Beasly, Hopkins and the like. Their selfishness, and that of others who refuse the jab, complicate our ability to achieve some semblance of a return to”normalcy!” Canada closed its borders to US!

I stood by a guy yesterday who wore a shirt that read unmasked, unvaxed, unafraid. He was also talking with a like-minded soul (idiot) behind him referring to the vaxed and masked as sheep. I wanted to punch him in the face, particularly yesterday which was my friend’s birthday. He would have been 51. If anyone is in the sheep category, it’s the crowd that listens to crazy entertainment shows dressed up like news and believe what is spewed at them all day. Tucker Carlson, for example. I’ll bet that dude is even vaxed. The perpetrators of this deception have blood on their hands.

It's good to see you, Sis. The pandemic has taken a lot worse toll on your family than it has mine, and my heart goes out to you.

I have a young female friend that has her panties in a wad because her whole family caught Covid..none were vaccinated...because her ex hasn't called to check on their daughter, and I thought to myself "You whacked out b****! If you and the rest of your family had gotten vaccinated, your kid likely wouldn't have caught Covid in the first place! Some kind of mother you are, and you have the gall to b**** about your ex!"

But, like the gentleman that I am, I bit my tongue.

[RiverDog]

I lost a bunch of respect for Cole Beasley after reading this article:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... artner=MSN

I hate to break the news to him, but it's players like him that are going to get cut if they don't get vaccinated. Like Emmanuel Sanders said, it's all about availability, and not getting a jab is essentially the same thing as being highly injury prone.

[c_hawkbob]

He wants to get cut. Not sure why he also wants to label himself a locker room cancer though...

[RiverDog]

He wants to get cut. Not sure why he also wants to label himself a locker room cancer though...

He must have been ready to retire anyway. He's 32 years old so he doesn't have a lot of tread left on the tires. Perhaps he wants to go out with a bang. Otherwise, it's a pretty irrational thing to do as he's going to screw himself out of a lot of promotional opportunities.

I suspect that by the time training camps open, most teams will be nearly 100% vaccinated.

[Aseahawkfan]

I didn't see anything relating to hospitalization rates from the link. Maybe I just didn't look hard enough.
Up here it's an important metric as it tells the tale of where we are going with this virus.
So far, the hospitalization rates are about the same but the virus cases have increased 3 fold.
That tells us that the vaccines are working to suppress the symptoms and severity even with the Delta variant.
And like you we still have some dumbasses who don't believe it's real and never will believe it.

It doesn't list hospitalization rates. I believe hospitalization rates are tracked more locally than nationally, though there was an aggregate tool a while back. I'll look around for that tool, but given we never exceeded our capacity for hospitalization I didn't consider it as important as deaths. Not sure if Canada exceeded its hospital capacity, but America did not on a national level though some areas had a particular bad time.

But it's an immense drop in deaths from COVID19 from the time the vaccination program started from December and January. There is no explanation other than the vaccine.

Vaccine approved in December, program starts.

December 2020: 98,049 deaths from COVID
January 2021 (all months 2021 after this): 104,647
February: 46,964
March: 22,699
April: 18,342
May: 14,400
June: 7,197

That is a 1454% drop in COVID deaths from the start of the vaccination program. There is literally no other explanation any intelligent person can give for that type of drop in deaths than the vaccine.

People claiming the vaccine is more dangerous than COVID19 are lying or have an irrational fear. There is literally no evidence that anyone is able to present that the COVID 19 vaccine is not clearly working and clearly less dangerous than not taking it on a population level.

These COVID19 vaccines are highly effective, very, very safe, and working extremely well. If we can get everyone in the United States vaccinated, maybe we can start vaccinating some poorer nations to slow this spread and mutation.

[Aseahawkfan]

https://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/datarequest/D8

VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System) data base to search around. You should read the additional information about reporting.

163 million Americans vaccinated. 341 million vaccine doses administered. Very few if any confirmed deaths from COVID19 vaccines. Doctors have found no causal link between the vaccines and death.

34,400,000 documented cases of COVID19 with 610,850 deaths. Even with 10 times the number of COVID19 vaccinations delivered, there is little to no evidence of deaths from the vaccine. People like Tucker Carlson and his ilk are complete and utter liars. The risk of death from the vaccine is infinitesimal and the risk of death from COVID19 a real threat that only grows more dangerous as you get older and/or have more health issues.

Interesting little tool to search around on to read about adverse events reported after vaccination. Nowhere near the adverse events reported from getting COVID19.

[RiverDog]

That is a 1454% drop in COVID deaths from the start of the vaccination program. There is literally no other explanation any intelligent person can give for that type of drop in deaths than the vaccine.

People claiming the vaccine is more dangerous than COVID19 are lying or have an irrational fear. There is literally no evidence that anyone is able to present that the COVID 19 vaccine is not clearly working and clearly less dangerous than not taking it on a population level.

These COVID19 vaccines are highly effective, very, very safe, and working extremely well. If we can get everyone in the United States vaccinated, maybe we can start vaccinating some poorer nations to slow this spread and mutation.

I agree that vaccinations are the primary reason for the sudden and drastic decline in deaths in this country, but there are other possible contributing factors. One is that we have learned more about the virus and how to treat patients. We've ramped up the production and availability of ventilators and developed/discovered drugs and procedures that improve the survival rate. Another possible explanation is that the virus picked off the low hanging fruit, that the most susceptible people in our society have already died from it.

But I don't mean that to distract from your overall point. We knew that the vaccines worked back in early January as we saw a dramatic decline in the death rate in nursing homes a few weeks after residents got their first shot of the vaccine, and even today, by comparing the infection/death rate of vaccinated vs. unvaccinated, we are seeing undeniable field evidence of the effectiveness of these vaccines. They really are a modern miracle.

The other thing that people don't understand is that these vaccines, ie the mRNA vaccines made by Pfizer and Moderna, are not some sort of weird science created in Frankenstein's laboratory and it's not like someone woke up one morning and deciding that mRNA was the way to go. The development of mRNA started way back in the early '90's and human test trials were started in 2017. A number of companies and countries had already invested heavily in the technology years before Covid arrived. Granted, it's the first time they've used it on a scale this big and they got it to market in record time, but they didn't skip any safety steps. It was the US government's decision to finance the final stages and allowed them to start large scale production of the vaccine, gave it priority over other drugs/vaccines already in production, all while the test trials were still underway that got it to the market in record time. Normally drug manufacturers won't take the financial risk and won't start production until after the vaccine has undergone trials and has been approved for use by the FDA, and they certainly won't stop production of other approved vaccines like flu shots and Shingles for an unapproved vaccine as they did with the Covid vaccines.

This bruh ha ha over vaccines is just one more example of the stupidity and gullibility of the common American adult. They won't take the few minutes it takes to research this stuff on their own and instead listen to hacks like Tucker Carlson rather than the people that have spent a lifetime in the business.

[NorthHawk]

A lot of those types also look for a miracle in life.
Well, here it is - in the form of a vaccine. It really is miraculous that it was developed so fast for this particular virus
and is as effective as it is on (so far) the variants. I would suspect some sort of booster shot might be necessary like
the Flu virus, but these vaccines are game changers and not just for Covid-19 but maybe for other diseases too.

[RiverDog]

A lot of those types also look for a miracle in life.
Well, here it is - in the form of a vaccine. It really is miraculous that it was developed so fast for this particular virus
and is as effective as it is on (so far) the variants. I would suspect some sort of booster shot might be necessary like
the Flu virus, but these vaccines are game changers and not just for Covid-19 but maybe for other diseases too.

Yep. My wife has been diagnosed with multiple sclerosis for 21 years, and there's hope that mRNA technology might one day lead to a revolutionary break through in the fight against that disease:

With the MS vaccine, the mRNA technology stops the body's immune system from attacking neurons in the brain and spinal cord which can lead to the loss of bodily function. Clinical trials on mice revealed the jab not only stopped the disease from progressing but restored some motor skills which had been lost.

We can think of the development of these Covid vaccines as one used to think of the Apollo moon program, that the spin off technologies and other applications can be used to justify the original intent.

[NorthHawk]

I heard someone say the actual vaccine was created in 3 days, but it took months to verify the results
and determine safety parameters. The studies always take a long time.

To me, the real heroes in this are the first people who volunteered to be tested with a new technology
vaccine without really knowing what they are in for. I suspect that’s true for all new vaccines but…

[RiverDog]

I heard someone say the actual vaccine was created in 3 days, but it took months to verify the results and determine safety parameters. The studies always take a long time.

To me, the real heroes in this are the first people who volunteered to be tested with a new technology vaccine without really knowing what they are in for. I suspect that’s true for all new vaccines but…

Actually the mixing of the components takes just a couple of hours:

The mRNA platform is great from a manufacturing point of view. It can essentially be done in a vat in a few hours with a mixture of known starting materials and some enzymes, followed by some purification and packaging (all under pharmaceutical-grade manufacturing conditions of course). Unlike many traditional vaccines, it doesn't rely on growing any cells or harvesting them for further processing and multiple purification steps.

Pharmaceutical products that are manufactured using growing cells can take days or weeks to process from beginning to end, can be much harder to scale up, and have more chances of something going wrong in the manufacturing process, resulting in a batch that has to be destroyed and wasted time.

The 2nd paragraph describes the process for developing annual flu shots. They have to start production of the vaccine 6 months ahead of the flu season, so by the time they are able to start getting needles into arms, the virus has already mutated, which explains why the efficacy of a flu shot is only about 40-60%.

Human trials for the mRNA vaccines began in 2017, so by early 2020, they were pretty confident that it was going to be safe before they started testing the current Covid vaccines on human volunteers. Obviously they had a pretty good idea that they were going to work as the government wouldn't have plopped down the billions of dollars they did to insure against failure and start production before the trials were completed had there been significant doubts.

Moderna started their human trials for their mRNA based flu vaccine earlier this month. The hope is that they can combine a flu shot with vaccines designed to attack multiple other diseases, including Covid.

[NorthHawk]

What the speaker meant was this specific vaccine to combat Covid-19 was created in 3 days. Once that was done it was easier to make in volume.
The rest of the time was spent testing.

[RiverDog]

What the speaker meant was this specific vaccine to combat Covid-19 was created in 3 days. Once that was done it was easier to make in volume. The rest of the time was spent testing.

Yes, that corresponds with the information that I've been able to garner. It's a very easy vaccine to manufacture. Tweaking it to handle variants is easy, too. All they need is the genetic sequence. Like you said, the part that takes time is the human trials.

It's a shame that more people aren't like us in this forum. This stuff isn't rocket science. It doesn't require a doctorate to understand the basics. I also wish our government would quick f-ing around and start approaching it like the NFL is doing. Biden hasn't even mandated vaccinations for member of his staff. If he mandated that the military and all government employees get vaccinated, it would not only get a lot of hesitant people the jab, it would spur other companies to do likewise.

Training camps open tomorrow. It will be interesting to see how many players get the jab.

[NorthHawk]

With Pete getting on in age, I would think vaccinations and Covid protocols would be of prime importance.
Even if he's had 2 doses, it can hit older people harder than others.
I wonder if they are going to do something like the Bucs and Steelers have done with the colored wrist bands.