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JA: "How do you like me now?"

Now we know why we made the trade and need to pay him for long-term. That's a foundational defensive piece right there.

12 tackles total. 8 solo and a sack... not bad for your first day back at work. Not to mention he seemed to be a 'leader' on defense vocally.

jshawaii22 wrote:12 tackles total. 8 solo and a sack... not bad for your first day back at work. Not to mention he seemed to be a 'leader' on defense vocally.

And there was a play that should have been counted as a sack, the one where Ryan was in the grasp and got called for intentional grounding. I'm not sure why they don't count those as sacks. Under the old "in the grasp" rule, that play probably would have been called dead before the grounding call and a sack credited to the defender.

Adams play today reminded me of Kenny Easley. A lot of people have compared Kam to Easley, but Kam was more of a hybrid of a strong safety/linebacker than he was a pure safety, but Kam didn't make the plays behind the LOS like Easley, and now Adams, does. It was only one game and as North Hawk said, teams will get a book on him and start doing things to negate him, but it's nice to have a defensive player that teams have to account for.

Pete must have known what he saw in Adams when we traded for him. Gotta trust the old man when it comes to defense.

I was super pumped about his play. I supported the move when we made it; put an exclamation point on that now!! WOW!

I did not support the deal HS, but it was never about JA's ability, it's about snap, crackle, pop. you give up all you future #1's for 3 years. The question was never is JA a good-great player. The problem is if he gets injured, do the risk outweigh the benefits.

I'm of the opinion you don't fear injury for players when trading (or drafting for that matter) unless they have a long history of problems.
Most drafts 1st round talent last until around 15, so we are selecting 2nd round talent unless some player falls into our lap and even then
John has a desire to trade down. So I look at it like giving up 2 2nd round talents and a 3rd. That might just be rationalization on my part
and I will hate it come the next 2 drafts, but to get an All Pro is very difficult in any draft and to get one who's only 24 might be a steal.

It’s not 3 years, it’s 2 on 1st round picks, and you have to see it as using one of those 1st rounders to draft Adams. Unless we get hit with injuries, we will be drafting near the bottom, anyway. The JA’s of the world just are not available that late & pairing our 1st and a third to move up that high would not be enough. And of all times to give up a 1, this crappy COVID era is the time to do it. I agree w/ NH’s comments too. He is a special player. The best safety in the league and such a difference maker. I’m all in.

He is a special player. The best safety in the league and such a difference maker. I’m all in.

This. and he pairs so perfectly with Bobby at our second level that now we have the best back 7 in the league. It's just too bad we couldn't have kept Clowney to have a player of that caliber on every level of our defense ...

obiken wrote:I did not support the deal HS, but it was never about JA's ability, it's about snap, crackle, pop. you give up all you future #1's for 3 years. The question was never is JA a good-great player. The problem is if he gets injured, do the risk outweigh the benefits.

Hawk Sista wrote:And of all times to give up a 1, this crappy COVID era is the time to do it.

That's the kicker in this trade. With the Pac 12, Big 10, and a slug of mid majors and FCS leagues sitting this season out, teams are not going to be able to do a good job of researching their potential draftees, making it even more of a crap shoot than it normally is, which devalues the selection.

Obi, take a look at teams that consistently draft in the top 10, teams like the Browns, Jets, Dolphins, Lions, and Raiders, and see what kind of success those top draft picks have gotten them over the course of the past 10-15 years. You are placing too much emphasis on draft picks.

As far as an injury risk goes, that's a gamble you take with both trades AND draftees. Russell Okung never missed a start in something like 35 straight games in college, but the minute he plays for us, he becomes injury prone.

Hawk Sista wrote:It’s not 3 years, it’s 2 on 1st round picks, and you have to see it as using one of those 1st rounders to draft Adams. Unless we get hit with injuries, we will be drafting near the bottom, anyway. The JA’s of the world just are not available that late & pairing our 1st and a third to move up that high would not be enough. And of all times to give up a 1, this crappy COVID era is the time to do it. I agree w/ NH’s comments too. He is a special player. The best safety in the league and such a difference maker. I’m all in.

Sure but it will be 3 years before we get a first rounder again. The Jets were in a desperate situation HS, and they took us to the cleaners.

obiken wrote:Sure but it will be 3 years before we get a first rounder again. The Jets were in a desperate situation HS, and they took us to the cleaners.

Neither you or me can make that kind of assessment at this point in the trade. If Adams keeps playing the way he did in the opener, it will have been worth what we paid and then some. You simply do not draft perennial pro bowlers in the bottom third of the first round like where we usually draft from.

To illustrate my point, let's play a little game of "What If": Our last 4 first round draft picks were Jordyn Brooks, LJ Collier, Rashaad Penny, and Germain Ifedi. Let's assume that none of those 4 are on our roster and that you had to choose two of them, put them in our starting lineup, and send Adams back to the Jets, undoing the trade. Which two would you choose? Do you think that Ifedi and Penny are going to give us more than Jamal Adams?

Let's take a look at the Jet's history of first round draft picks over the past 8 seasons:

2012: Quinton Coples, DE (#16) Complete bust. Waived in 2015.

2013: Dee Milliner, CB (#9) Bust. Played well for 2 seasons, injury prone, Jets did not pick up 5th year option, released in 2016.

2013: Sheldon Richardson, DT (#13) Pro Bowl in 2015, multiple suspensions, traded to the Hawks in 2018 for Jermaine Kearse and a 2nd rounder.

2014: Calvin Prior, S (#18) Bust. Jets declined 5th year option, traded to the Browns for a player, kicked off the team for fighting with teammates.

2015: Leonard Williams, DT(#6) Bust. Traded in 2018 to the Giants for a 3rd and 5th round pick.

2016: Darron Lee, LB (#20) Bust. Started for the Jets, did nothing spectacular, suspended for PED's, Jets declined to pick up 5th year option. Traded to the Chiefs in 2019 for a 6th round pick.

2017: Jamal Adams, S (#6) Pro Bowl in 2018 and 2019.

2018: Sam Darnold, QB (#3) Starting quarterback, has yet to produce.

2019: Quinnen Williams, DT (#3) Played in 13 games, 25 tackles, 2.5 sacks. On 3/5/2020, he was arrested for attempting to board a plane with a handgun.

2019: Mekhi Becton, OT (#11)

Now tell me again how the Jets took us to the cleaners.

RD, good post, but to complete that scenario, you need to add how pathetic the Seahawks have also been in drafting 1st (and trade down 2nd) picks, too) after ET.
We have about the same history as the JETS, so it made 100% sense to trade two picks to them for a proven and potential HOF player not even in his prime. If one game is a short-view, we scored on this one. Great trade for the Seahawks.
I will add that we need to extend him after this season, and he's going to be very, very expensive, but we have 2 years of cap that our 1st round picks won't be getting, so that can go to Adams.

Pathetic at drafting or not, you could use pick in the first round (16 and back) for the next 10 years and likely never get a elite player like Adams. That, and my conviction that the 2021 draft is a complete crap shoot, still leaves me convinced it was a great deal for the Hawks - and judging on his play last Sunday - who fleeced who?

jshawaii22 wrote:RD, good post, but to complete that scenario, you need to add how pathetic the Seahawks have also been in drafting 1st (and trade down 2nd) picks, too) after ET.
We have about the same history as the JETS, so it made 100% sense to trade two picks to them for a proven and potential HOF player not even in his prime. If one game is a short-view, we scored on this one. Great trade for the Seahawks.
I will add that we need to extend him after this season, and he's going to be very, very expensive, but we have 2 years of cap that our 1st round picks won't be getting, so that can go to Adams.

Our draft history has been mixed to say the least, especially in the first round. But it's difficult to compare our success with the Jets for a couple of reasons: First of all, the Jets have been drafting way higher than us, which should increase their chances of success, and secondly, we've traded our first rounder, either for multiple lower picks or for a player, as many times as we've used our original selection on a player. The Jets haven't made hardly any first round moves over the same period of time.

I look at it this way, if someone could guarantee we could get a player as impactful as Jamal Adams with one of our next 2 first round picks, would we do it?

We just did.

I-5 wrote:I look at it this way, if someone could guarantee we could get a player as impactful as Jamal Adams with one of our next 2 first round picks, would we do it?

We just did.

Two kickers in that logic: He needs to sustain his Game 1 performance over the course of the next several years. We need to sign him to a contract that is going to be palatable to our management.

I'm an optimist on this trade, but also a realist.

Neither you or me can make that kind of assessment at this point in the trade. If Adams keeps playing the way he did in the opener, it will have been worth what we paid and then some. You simply do not draft perennial pro bowlers in the bottom third of the first round like where we usually draft from.

To illustrate my point, let's play a little game of "What If": Our last 4 first round draft picks were Jordyn Brooks, LJ Collier, Rashaad Penny, and Germain Ifedi. Let's assume that none of those 4 are on our roster and that you had to choose two of them, put them in our starting lineup, and send Adams back to the Jets, undoing the trade. Which two would you choose? Do you think that Ifedi and Penny are going to give us more than Jamal Adams?

You and Cbob make great points, no doubt about that. To argue your side he doesnt have the kind of game he had Sunday every week, just in big games. I think we would all agree its going to be harder to argue a Negative on this, if it continues to be a positive result. How many teams would give up what we did for a RW or Patrick Mahomes? I am thinking boatloads. As the Zen Master would say, we'll see.

It's not like he's a rookie. He's won 3 Pro Bowl and an All Pro honors and he's still young.
So he's proven to be able to consistently play at a very high level. Whether he will continue
having the same impact all year in our Defense would be hard to believe, but look at how
well Wagner consistently plays. If we had traded for him when he was 24 or so, would we say
it was worth it? I think so.

NorthHawk wrote:It's not like he's a rookie. He's won 3 Pro Bowl and an All Pro honors and he's still young. So he's proven to be able to consistently play at a very high level. Whether he will continue having the same impact all year in our Defense would be hard to believe, but look at how
well Wagner consistently plays. If we had traded for him when he was 24 or so, would we say it was worth it? I think so.

Just to set the record straight: Adams has been named to the Pro Bowl twice, in 2018 and 2019. But I get your point. He's a proven quantity and at 24, is just entering his prime. There's not many defensive players in the league that would be worth trading 2-#1's for, but he's one of them. For example, I wouldn't trade 2-#1's for JJ Watt as he's 31 and bound to decline.

Two kickers in that logic: He needs to sustain his Game 1 performance over the course of the next several years. We need to sign him to a contract that is going to be palatable to our management.

I'm an optimist on this trade, but also a realist.

The first point I'm not as concerned with, since he has a track record going back to his rookie year. The second point is well taken.

Jamal Adams is a defensive force to be reckoned with. Barring injuries this guy is worth the trade. I hope we can rebuild our D-line. It is seriously holding us back from being a great defense. We're getting pushed around.