Coaching Mistakes

[RiverDog]

4th and one at the Cards 33 in the first quarter. I don't have a problem passing up a 50 yard FG attempt, and I don't have a huge problem punting even though I felt we should have gone for it. But WTF were we doing in FG formation if we had decided to punt? Myers just walked up to the center as the play clock ran out and we took the 5 yard delay of game. If we were going to punt, why didn't we leave our offense out there and try to pull them offsides? It looked like they decided late not to attempt the FG, and if that was the case, why not call a timeout?

It's bone head mistakes like that one, particularly from an experienced coaching staff in Week 16, that gets me the most irritated.

[NorthHawk]

I heard somewhere that there was some confusion and it was Meyers decision to run out the clock.
That probably boils down to some coaching issue with personnel, I would think. I don't think
Pete knew it was happening until it did.

[c_hawkbob]

I'd likely point that one Brian Schneider, he's our Special Teams Coordinator.

[Hawktawk]

PC is perhaps the best Rah Rah winning culture big picture coach ever. When it comes to clock management and sensing in game momentum shifts hes awful and getting worse. It looks to me like they really had no plan when the ball was eventually ruled short on that second possession even though the offense had been crisp up till that point. Im guessing almost any HC would have went there. Russ said after the game that he believed Carroll would go for it. There just wasn't a plan, total indecision. I was screaming at the tv because the fat guy sitting on his couch with a beer sensed the momentum of the game was a critical juncture more than the coach. That was a horrible sequence. Following the punt which the Cardinals moved out of the endzone and changed field position before punting back Seattle punted 7 of the next 9 possessions with a fumble in the middle. As my son said post game they played the whole game like they were up 40 points, even when they went down 13. Conservative, no sense of urgency. Its the second of the last 3 games that the team has been dreadful,lifeless particularly on offense.

Can we stop with Russ for MVP? The guy has been slightly above average or just average in 5 of his last 6 games. His incredible play separated Seattle early in the year but he's not who we need him to be right now, especially with the lack of other skill players. I saw an article that said he was playing with PTSD late in the game yesterday. I dont know about that but when you cant protect your QB and you cant run to keep the D rush honest and the D is a bunch of nobodies or banged up starters you got a heap of issues. Adding on coaching missteps isn't a recipe for anything but a one and done, maybe in humiliating fashion.

[RiverDog]

PC is perhaps the best Rah Rah winning culture big picture coach ever. When it comes to clock management and sensing in game momentum shifts hes awful and getting worse. It looks to me like they really had no plan when the ball was eventually ruled short on that second possession even though the offense had been crisp up till that point. Im guessing almost any HC would have went there. Russ said after the game that he believed Carroll would go for it. There just wasn't a plan, total indecision. I was screaming at the tv because the fat guy sitting on his couch with a beer sensed the momentum of the game was a critical juncture more than the coach. That was a horrible sequence. Following the punt which the Cardinals moved out of the endzone and changed field position before punting back Seattle punted 7 of the next 9 possessions with a fumble in the middle. As my son said post game they played the whole game like they were up 40 points, even when they went down 13. Conservative, no sense of urgency. Its the second of the last 3 games that the team has been dreadful,lifeless particularly on offense.

That's one of the problems with Pete Ball, ie run first and a tough defense that uses more clock, that if he falls behind by two TD's in the 2nd half like we did yesterday, it's a lot more difficult to catch up because he has fewer possessions. It's further compromised this season in that he doesn't have a top 5 defense like he's had during his Legion of Boom era.

But we got beat so badly that I don't think we can blame it all on Pete, game management, or any one aspect of our team. We're a different team, with all the injuries/suspensions, than we were a month ago. We are a .500ish squad, not an 11-4 one.

Can we stop with Russ for MVP? The guy has been slightly above average or just average in 5 of his last 6 games. His incredible play separated Seattle early in the year but he's not who we need him to be right now, especially with the lack of other skill players. I saw an article that said he was playing with PTSD late in the game yesterday. I dont know about that but when you cant protect your QB and you cant run to keep the D rush honest and the D is a bunch of nobodies or banged up starters you got a heap of issues. Adding on coaching missteps isn't a recipe for anything but a one and done, maybe in humiliating fashion.

Agreed. Although Russell is not the root cause of our problems, he obviously hasn't played as well in the 2nd half of the season like he did in the first half and our team in general. If I were to rank the MVP race now, he'd be a distant 3rd behind Jackson and Mahomes. I'd be surprised if he gets a single vote.

[RiverDog]

I heard somewhere that there was some confusion and it was Meyers decision to run out the clock. That probably boils down to some coaching issue with personnel, I would think. I don't think Pete knew it was happening until it did.

If that were the case, then why didn't we call a timeout? It was the first half so timeouts aren't the solid gold possessions that they are in the 2nd half. Pete should have been running on the field to call a timeout, but I saw no effort from him or anyone else to do so. I gotta lay the blame on Pete for that cluster phuck.

[Anthony]

The biggest mistake was going away form what was working.

first drive 4 passes, 4 runs.
Every play was with a different cadence, which kept them off balance
Every pass play had layered routes short, mid, long.

Then what happens after that drive we go back to the old run and everyone go long.

We are at are best in an uptempo layered route based system. But was PC has said he hates short throws he wants run and throw long.

[RiverDog]

Fricking horrible game management there at the end. Who is in charge of the offense? Russell? Shotty? Getting a delay of game penalty when all they had to do is line up and spike the ball? Incredible.

It's bad enough to lose, but when you lose it because your quarterback and/or your offensive coordinator loses it because they're walking around with their head/s up their arses….

[Klanky]

End of game was setup for Seahawks at the 1 yd line and lynch coming in for the game winner, but as we all seen they literally f’ed that up big time... how does that happen to professionals and to a team that been in tons of last second games .... I’m sick, now I can’t stand the Niners even more, hawks literally handed them the game at the end, the Niners should feel VERY lucky to now have the 1st seed
On a side note lynch should be pissed, do it right and do a simple handoff we are probably talking about a hell of a win instead of a major choke to end the game..... crap all those Super Bowl memories are flashing back,

[mykc14]

Fricking horrible game management there at the end. Who is in charge of the offense? Russell? Shotty? Getting a delay of game penalty when all they had to do is line up and spike the ball? Incredible.

It's bad enough to lose, but when you lose it because your quarterback and/or your offensive coordinator loses it because they're walking around with their head/s up their arses….

That one has to go on coaches and players who were supposed to go in or off the field... way too lackluster after a spike- it’s like they thought it was a timeout. It wasn’t even close either- the Hawks didn’t even break the huddle when they were flagged... very frustrating. On second thought we don’t know when the coaches told the players which personnel they wanted- so my vote is coaches fault!!

[trents]

I'm not excusing the game management there at the end. It should have been done better. There was indecision when it could not be afforded. But keep in mind that Fant got injured and was slow to get back to the line of scrimmage which contributed majorly to that whole event.

[obiken]

I'm not excusing the game management there at the end. It should have been done better. There was indecision when it could not be afforded. But keep in mind that Fant got injured and was slow to get back to the line of scrimmage which contributed majorly to that whole event.

I get that but the QB and the coach should have had their eye on the clock. It should have been Beast-mode for the win. This one is on the staff not the players.

[The POPE]

Fant was slow to get back to the line, but he did in time and russel clocked it. The biggest problem was the indecision after the ball was clocked. Not having a play ready and personnel ready is a coaching screw up at a critical time. The coaches didn’t do their job. And..WTF constitutes PI anymore. Hollister was mugged in the end zone and no call. They might as well scrap the new rule. That play should have been reviewed and PI called. Can’t wait to see the whiners in 2 weeks, if the Hawks can regroup and beat philly. The thought of that opportunity should be enough motivation to take out the eagles.

[Klanky]

Fant was slow to get back to the line, but he did in time and russel clocked it. The biggest problem was the indecision after the ball was clocked. Not having a play ready and personnel ready is a coaching screw up at a critical time. The coaches didn’t do their job. And..WTF constitutes PI anymore. Hollister was mugged in the end zone and no call. They might as well scrap the new rule. That play should have been reviewed and PI called. Can’t wait to see the whiners in 2 weeks, if the Hawks can regroup and beat philly. The thought of that opportunity should be enough motivation to take out the eagles.

Totally agree, The hawks have a huge uphill battle, made even bigger by screwing up the end of the game

[jshawaii22]

All the above is true, but it was the 1st half of the game that they totally screwed up, not the 2nd half. If we had played at a minimum and scored 7 to 10 points, we wouldn't of been in the position at the end.

[RiverDog]

Fant was slow to get back to the line, but he did in time and russel clocked it. The biggest problem was the indecision after the ball was clocked. Not having a play ready and personnel ready is a coaching screw up at a critical time. The coaches didn’t do their job. And..WTF constitutes PI anymore. Hollister was mugged in the end zone and no call. They might as well scrap the new rule. That play should have been reviewed and PI called. Can’t wait to see the whiners in 2 weeks, if the Hawks can regroup and beat philly. The thought of that opportunity should be enough motivation to take out the eagles.

That's not the play I was talking about. I was asking why we got called for a delay of game after we completed a pass on the one yard line, making it first and goal. No one had any awareness of the play clock. We should have had several plays from the one. Try to slam it in and if we don't make it, line up and spike the ball. At the very least, when Russell saw the clock going below 12 seconds, he should have hustled the offense up to the ball and spike it then.

Agreed about the PI no call on Hollister. It should have at least been reviewed and if nothing else, given us time to regroup.

That was a horrible last series.

[Klanky]

All the above is true, but it was the 1st half of the game that they totally screwed up, not the 2nd half. If we had played at a minimum and scored 7 to 10 points, we wouldn't of been in the position at the end.

You got that right, first half was pathetic, then when the offense finally decided to get going and score, the defense proceeded to let the Niners march right down the field twice after we scored.... so I guess all in all it was a team lose...

[mykc14]

That's not the play I was talking about. I was asking why we got called for a delay of game after we completed a pass on the one yard line, making it first and goal. No one had any awareness of the play clock. We should have had several plays from the one. Try to slam it in and if we don't make it, line up and spike the ball. At the very least, when Russell saw the clock going below 12 seconds...

That was a horrible last series.

Hmmm... maybe I’m misunderstanding you here but after RW completed a pass to Ursua at the 1, making it first and goal at the 1 RW did spike it. The down was then 2nd and goal at the 1, with 22 secs left (I think). Then we got the delay of game making it 2nd and goal at the 6. If RW would have spiked it to avoid the delay of game it would have been 3rd and goal (actually it probably would have been an illegal formation penalty because they didn’t have the right personnel out there anyways), I mean they were flagged before they even broke the huddle.

[RiverDog]

Hmmm... maybe I’m misunderstanding you here but after RW completed a pass to Ursua at the 1, making it first and goal at the 1 RW did spike it. The down was then 2nd and goal at the 1, with 22 secs left (I think). Then we got the delay of game making it 2nd and goal at the 6. If RW would have spiked it to avoid the delay of game it would have been 3rd and goal (actually it probably would have been an illegal formation penalty because they didn’t have the right personnel out there anyways), I mean they were flagged before they even broke the huddle.

Yes, my bad. Thanks for the correction. I was thinking that we should have had at least two more shots from the one. All I know is that it was the biggest unorganized mess, like someone had walked into the United Nations cafeteria and pulled a fire alarm.

[mykc14]

All the above is true, but it was the 1st half of the game that they totally screwed up, not the 2nd half. If we had played at a minimum and scored 7 to 10 points, we wouldn't of been in the position at the end.

There is nothing new here... that’s how the Hawks play, classic Peteball. Don’t lose the game in the first half-ultra conservative offense. On your side of the 50: run, run, pass... get between the 45’s: play action pass max protect take a deep shot... get in field goal range:no turnovers. There’s very little risk to the Hawks offense, which HAS to have a threatening running game to be effective. Meanwhile SF, ARIZONA, and LA have WIDE OOEN receivers all night. Is it their offensive scheme or our poopy defense- hard to tell...

[mykc14]

Yes, my bad. Thanks for the correction. I was thinking that we should have had two more shots from the one. All I know is that it was the biggest unorganized mess, like someone had walked into the United Nations cafeteria and pulled a fire alarm.

.

Yeah, even my wife was beside herself when that delay happened... PC didn’t seem to mind as he was very nonchalant about it after the game- he said he thought they were going to score anyways so it want a big deal.

[RiverDog]

Yeah, even my wife was beside herself when that delay happened... PC didn’t seem to mind as he was very nonchalant about it after the game- he said he thought they were going to score anyways so it want a big deal.

Yea, well I seem to remember losing a Super Bowl in a very similar circumstance.

[RiverDog]

All the above is true, but it was the 1st half of the game that they totally screwed up, not the 2nd half. If we had played at a minimum and scored 7 to 10 points, we wouldn't of been in the position at the end.

There is nothing new here... that’s how the Hawks play, classic Peteball. Don’t lose the game in the first half-ultra conservative offense. On your side of the 50: run, run, pass... get between the 45’s: play action pass max protect take a deep shot... get in field goal range:no turnovers. There’s very little risk to the Hawks offense, which HAS to have a threatening running game to be effective. Meanwhile SF, ARIZONA, and LA have WIDE OOEN receivers all night. Is it their offensive scheme or our poopy defense- hard to tell...

One of the problems was not converting on 4th and 1 at the end of the first half. Hindsight is always 20/20, but I would have thought that we would have had better luck running towards Ifedi and Fluker's side vs. Fant's side.

I was surprised that the Niners let the clock run out at the end of the first half. Didn't they have several timeouts?

[Hawktawk]

That seemed like an awfully short clock. Guys weren't even out of the huddle. Either way they needed to be aware of it I suppose. They had burned their last timeout earlier in the drive with the clock winding down.Can they ever snap the ball bdefore 1 second remains on the clock? How about call 3 plays in a row in these game ending situations? I just dont see a plan.

As for what ifs with handing the ball to Lynch there on the 1 who knows? He had some good runs and he got stuffed some too. And if you hand it off with 22 seconds left and he doesnt get in and dont expect the 9ers to just unpile you may not give yourself time for more than one more play.

As has been said the PI was extremely obvious and severe. WTF it is what it is. The new PI rule has made it much worse with guys afraid to throw the flag half the time now. Either way when Terry McCauley is screaming for a review it's all you need to know. They will write Carroll a letter swaying they blew it but it still says 11-5 not 12-4. Plus we had it first and goal at the 1 and screwed it up anyway so who knows. Coulda had it. At least it's the first loss that was remotely competitive.

[RiverDog]

That seemed like an awfully short clock. Guys weren't even out of the huddle. Either way they needed to be aware of it I suppose. They had burned their last timeout earlier in the drive with the clock winding down.Can they ever snap the ball bdefore 1 second remains on the clock? How about call 3 plays in a row in these game ending situations? I just dont see a plan.

It's inexcusable. When it's 4th and 10 at the 12, there's only three possible outcomes: A touchdown, failure to make the first down, or 1st and goal at very short range. Only one of those would have required another play from scrimmage. They should have had a play/personnel grouping all ready to go for that one scenario.

As for what ifs with handing the ball to Lynch there on the 1 who knows? He had some good runs and he got stuffed some too. And if you hand it off with 22 seconds left and he doesnt get in and dont expect the 9ers to just unpile you may not give yourself time for more than one more play.

As a rule of thumb, most teams use about 6-8 seconds from the end of a play to get to the LOS to spike a ball, probably a little less in that situation as you wouldn't have had WR's running downfield. There was plenty of time to run a dive with Beast and if it didn't get in, line up and spike it then go into a passing formation.

As has been said the PI was extremely obvious and severe. WTF it is what it is. The new PI rule has made it much worse with guys afraid to throw the flag half the time now. Either way when Terry McCauley is screaming for a review it's all you need to know. They will write Carroll a letter swaying they blew it but it still says 11-5 not 12-4. Plus we had it first and goal at the 1 and screwed it up anyway so who knows.

Agreed. The head of the refs claimed that they could see that Hollister initiated contact and there was no need for a review, but that's a really lame excuse as it was not at all conclusive. It was clearly close enough to require a 2nd look.

Coulda had it. At least it's the first loss that was remotely competitive.

Sorry, that's not a very good consolation prize. It feels more like being the butt of a gag gift at the company Christmas party. I have too many Niners/Packers friends that are teasing me about this being a choke job like SB 49.

[NorthHawk]

That seemed like an awfully short clock. Guys weren't even out of the huddle. Either way they needed to be aware of it I suppose. They had burned their last timeout earlier in the drive with the clock winding down.Can they ever snap the ball bdefore 1 second remains on the clock? How about call 3 plays in a row in these game ending situations? I just dont see a plan.

As for what ifs with handing the ball to Lynch there on the 1 who knows? He had some good runs and he got stuffed some too. And if you hand it off with 22 seconds left and he doesnt get in and dont expect the 9ers to just unpile you may not give yourself time for more than one more play.

As has been said the PI was extremely obvious and severe. WTF it is what it is. The new PI rule has made it much worse with guys afraid to throw the flag half the time now. Either way when Terry McCauley is screaming for a review it's all you need to know. They will write Carroll a letter swaying they blew it but it still says 11-5 not 12-4. Plus we had it first and goal at the 1 and screwed it up anyway so who knows. Coulda had it. At least it's the first loss that was remotely competitive.

The NFL's comment was something to the effect of they looked at it but it didn't qualify for clear and obvious interference and that Hollister ran into him.
I'm not buying it. I think they just want to kill video review and are purposely messing it up so they can discard it after this year.

[TriCitySam]

"That seemed like an awfully short clock."

The 40 second clock started when he spiked it, and there was 26 seconds left when the ref spotted the ball. No one was paying attention, not the coaches, Russ and the rest of the players were acting like it was a time out.

I thought two issues, first we wasted a time out or two and should have had one in the bag for this situation and secondly the coaching staff should have been ready with a play so we didn't get the delay.

Defense plays poorly, can't tackle. It plays a lot like the D played for Norton with the Raiders - bad. But this is Pete's D so I think he's accountable as well. All that said we still had a chance to win this and I feel the coaching staff blew it. For all the things Pete does well - we're much better with him than without him - clock management needs work .

[RiverDog]

"That seemed like an awfully short clock."

The 40 second clock started when he spiked it, and there was 26 seconds left when the ref spotted the ball. No one was paying attention, not the coaches, Russ and the rest of the players were acting like it was a time out.

I thought two issues, first we wasted a time out or two and should have had one in the bag for this situation and secondly the coaching staff should have been ready with a play so we didn't get the delay.

Defense plays poorly, can't tackle. It plays a lot like the D played for Norton with the Raiders - bad. But this is Pete's D so I think he's accountable as well. All that said we still had a chance to win this and I feel the coaching staff blew it. For all the things Pete does well - we're much better with him than without him - clock management needs work .

I didn't think we mismanaged our timeouts. We took #1 on defense at 2:34 on 4th and one, Timeout #2 on 3rd and 10 on the Niners 12 with :46 left and #3 on the next play on 4th down with :42 remaining. We still had the whole playbook available and at that point on the field and in the game, the clock shouldn't have been a big issue unless we took a sack. Indeed, we were still able to run 4 more plays after spending our last timeout.

But as stated before, that last sequence was a cluster. There's no excuse for us to come out of a timeout and not having two plays called in the event we were short of the end zone but made the first down.

[Hawktawk]

"That seemed like an awfully short clock."

The 40 second clock started when he spiked it, and there was 26 seconds left when the ref spotted the ball. No one was paying attention, not the coaches, Russ and the rest of the players were acting like it was a time out.

I thought two issues, first we wasted a time out or two and should have had one in the bag for this situation and secondly the coaching staff should have been ready with a play so we didn't get the delay.

Defense plays poorly, can't tackle. It plays a lot like the D played for Norton with the Raiders - bad. But this is Pete's D so I think he's accountable as well. All that said we still had a chance to win this and I feel the coaching staff blew it. For all the things Pete does well - we're much better with him than without him - clock management needs work .

Its truly incomprehensible that with the division on the line not one person in the entire Seahawks organization on or off the field noticed the clock on first and goal on the one, in their home stadium , to the point they didn't even break the huddle

As for PC "needing work" with clock management or game management I think we have what we have. He's been coaching 40 years, he aint gonna change,

For every national championship you have leaving Reggie Bush on the bench on 4th and 2. For every SB48 you have a 49.People forget Atlanta in 2012 where Carrols crazy coaching decisions made it possible for Atlanta to win at the end or they might have been in the Super Bowl that year.

But it is what it is. I'm OK as long as he makes more good decisions than bad and we win. Yesterday was particularly ugly, first having the team come out flat and listless in the first half . Then literally having an improbable undeserved win in the bag in a game you should have lost by 21 points and blow it horribly, make huge mistakes, get screwed on a pI no call and still came up a few inches short.... Its a lot like SB 49, it just doesn't mean as much obviously.

Oh well were still somewhere lots of teams would like to be. Philly here we come!!

[RiverDog]

Its truly incomprehensible that with the division on the line not one person in the entire Seahawks organization on or off the field noticed the clock on first and goal on the one, in their home stadium , to the point they didn't even break the huddle

As for PC "needing work" with clock management or game management I think we have what we have. He's been coaching 40 years, he aint gonna change,

For every national championship you have leaving Reggie Bush on the bench on 4th and 2. For every SB48 you have a 49.People forget Atlanta in 2012 where Carrols crazy coaching decisions made it possible for Atlanta to win at the end or they might have been in the Super Bowl that year.

But it is what it is. I'm OK as long as he makes more good decisions than bad and we win. Yesterday was particularly ugly, first having the team come out flat and listless in the first half . Then literally having an improbable undeserved win in the bag in a game you should have lost by 21 points and blow it horribly, make huge mistakes, get screwed on a pI no call and still came up a few inches short.... Its a lot like SB 49, it just doesn't mean as much obviously.

Oh well were still somewhere lots of teams would like to be. Philly here we come!!

One of the things that all football fans are born with is eternal wisdom that is always so much better than that of an NFL head coach. It's reassuring to know that we all are in much closer touch with the capabilities of our players, the field conditions, and the opponent's tendencies much better than some idiot down on the sideline that's only been doing this chit for around 40 years.

But these last few games has featured some incredibly boneheaded coaching mistakes, and I reserve my God given right to b**** about my football coach.

[c_hawkbob]

I'm with Tawk for the most part, with a dash of Riv on Pete (Pete lost my 5 year rule protection this year).

I've said before and I still maintain that he needs to hire a quality control coordinator with absolute authority over the final 2 minutes of a half or the game. Someone who's only job is to keep Pete from tripping over his own d!ck in critical situations and giving us these infrequent, but should never happen Keystone Cop moments.

[Anthony]

Here is my issue it is not just the PC mistakes last game ti is the constant mistakes ever game and almost always the same type.

IT is the refusal to adjust till it is almost to late. I mean really it took a half to decide hey lets change tempo. NEWS FLASH we always move the ball and score when we change Tempo.

The fact PC wastes a half, so he can feel out the other team, that is what game film is for.
Either PC needs to get a legit OC an give up any control, or he needs to go.

He cant try to run the same system he used in 2014, when the team is better suited for another kind.


Very simple "The mark of a good coach is one that creates a system built around what he has." - Vince Lombardi

"You can't live by off schedule plays" - Bill Walsh

For us that would be on offense a tempo changing, layered route, quick hitting run game.

On Defense a man to man, run blitzing.

Why do I say this

When we run uptempo or changing tempo we move and score at will. This helps the oline because the dline does not know when it will get hiked so can't get set, it helps the run game for the same reason, it helps the pass game because Wilson calls the plays, and can change at will to take advantage of what they are giving us. See our first scoring drive of last game Also see early to mid 2015 and notice we held a TOP in all those games.

When we go man and run blitz we get 3 and outs. Run blitzing allows the line to stop the run and if not a run keep going to the QB. It allows us to hide our blitzes more as well.

Unfortunately we run a zone most of the time, and on offense we run a very predictable, bland offense, despite the fact our oline is not good enough for it. In other words we are running systems like we have the same team as we did in 2013 when we don't have that team. We rely to much on off script plays PC has said they count on 5-8 a game as part of their game plan.

[RiverDog]

I'm with Tawk for the most part, with a dash of Riv on Pete (Pete lost my 5 year rule protection this year).

I've said before and I still maintain that he needs to hire a quality control coordinator with absolute authority over the final 2 minutes of a half or the game. Someone who's only job is to keep Pete from tripping over his own d!ck in critical situations and giving us these infrequent, but should never happen Keystone Cop moments.

I like your idea of a QC coach to be in his ear hole and regulate his passion, but I'd apply it to more than just the final two minutes. The cluster phuck in the OP is a good example, lining up in FG formation when we had no intentions of attempting one (or changing his mind at the last moment) then standing around and letting the play clock run out instead of trying something to pull the opponent offside.

Pete's teams don't seem to anticipate predictable situations. Are we going to attempt a 50+ FG in the first half on 4th and one? If not, do we have a scheme to try to pull the other team offside? What play do we want to run if we get a first and goal on the one with no timeouts? Do all the participants all know what the plan is? We just seem to get caught with our thumbs in our arses.

Pete still has my support, though. Up until this past month when the injuries started to pile up, we were exceeding my expectations.

[Hawktawk]

I like your idea of a QC coach to be in his ear hole and regulate his passion, but I'd apply it to more than just the final two minutes. The cluster phuck in the OP is a good example, lining up in FG formation when we had no intentions of attempting one (or changing his mind at the last moment) then standing around and letting the play clock run out instead of trying something to pull the opponent offside.

Pete's teams don't seem to anticipate predictable situations. Are we going to attempt a 50+ FG in the first half on 4th and one? If not, do we have a scheme to try to pull the other team offside? What play do we want to run if we get a first and goal on the one with no timeouts? Do all the participants all know what the plan is? We just seem to get caught with our thumbs in our arses.

Pete still has my support, though. Up until this past month when the injuries started to pile up, we were exceeding my expectations.

Im positive the Jets made Herm Edwards hire a clock management expert. They valued his Xs and Os and motivational ability but were tired of blown plays and opportunities. It would be a great idea for PC because as has been stated ad nauseum he just seems confused, the entire team seems disorganized in critical situations. I know last year there was discussion he had lost a step mentally. I dont see much has changed if you look at his career, every boss has their strengths and weaknesses, his just seems to be time management and play calling in crisis situations and it always has been.

They win a lot more than they lose but the losses are memorable. When Pete's legacy is written in Seattle it will be of a great resilient overachieving team over near a decade, a Lombardi, a run of defensive dominance unmatched in the Super Bowl era. It will definitely include a ballsy decision to pick a 5'10" rook over a free agent acquired Vet owed millions of dollars. That's worked pretty good But it's gonna include a lot of huge what ifs starting with USC vs Texas and continuing to last Sunday at around 8 PM with Atlanta 2012 and SB 49 in the middle.

Hopefully we will see some good pete the next few weeks

[RiverDog]

Im positive the Jets made Herm Edwards hire a clock management expert. They valued his Xs and Os and motivational ability but were tired of blown plays and opportunities. It would be a great idea for PC because as has been stated ad nauseum he just seems confused, the entire team seems disorganized in critical situations. I know last year there was discussion he had lost a step mentally. I dont see much has changed if you look at his career, every boss has their strengths and weaknesses, his just seems to be time management and play calling in crisis situations and it always has been.

They win a lot more than they lose but the losses are memorable. When Pete's legacy is written in Seattle it will be of a great resilient overachieving team over near a decade, a Lombardi, a run of defensive dominance unmatched in the Super Bowl era. It will definitely include a ballsy decision to pick a 5'10" rook over a free agent acquired Vet owed millions of dollars. That's worked pretty good But it's gonna include a lot of huge what ifs starting with USC vs Texas and continuing to last Sunday at around 8 PM with Atlanta 2012 and SB 49 in the middle.

Hopefully we will see some good pete the next few weeks

The "ballsy decision" to start a 5'10" quarterback was made easier by an injury to the assumed starter.

As far as the argument of Pete losing a step mentally, I see no evidence of it. As you mentioned, he's been like this his entire career. One of the flaws of his management style seems to be that he tends to over delegate, which could account of him losing track of the game situation. I'll never forget Chuck Knox talking about how some teams have an OC in charge of the offense, a DC in charge of the defense, a special teams coach in charge of special teams, and a head coach that's not in charge of anything. That seems to fit Pete's gameday approach.

[Hawktawk]

I’ve never heard of a Flynn injury affecting Carrols decision to choose Wilson. Pc made it clear long before his decision he was fond of Wilson and that Flynn didn’t have an edge despite his game experience or contract . “ he doesn’t have his checkbook on the field” was his response to a reporter asking if he really might start a short rookie over Flynn and his big contract .

Link that injury Flynn had and I’ll stand corrected but as I’ve understood it since day one Russ beat him fair and square .

Carroll was honest enough to see it and management backed him up.
However it happened it was the most important decision in the history of the franchise so far .

[RiverDog]

Link that injury Flynn had and I’ll stand corrected but as I’ve understood it since day one Russ beat him fair and square .

Here ya go! From an article posted on October 1st, 2012:

The Seahawks are struggling offensively with rookie quarterback Russell Wilson at the reins of what Pete Carroll calls a scaled-back scheme. But Carroll, despite his team having the NFL's worst passing game (No. 32) isn't thinking about making a change to high-priced veteran acquisition Matt Flynn ”because Flynn isn't healthy enough to play."

"We have a little bit of a problem with Matt," Carroll revealed to ESPN Seattle on Monday. "Matt's still not full speed. Anybody that thinks, OK, let's go with the other guy, well, he can't practice yet."

"He throws 15 throws a day, a couple days a week, so that's not really enough to get him ready in a game plan," Carroll told ESPN Seattle. "He has to throw 50 balls a day to get ready, so that's not even an issue for us yet to have a chance to put him in."

So now the questions are when exactly did Flynn get hurt to such a degree, and whether Carroll chose Wilson outright for the starting job in the preseason without factoring in injury.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/new ... is-injured

It was a close call as to who the starter would be until Flynn hurt his throwing arm in the preseason, and as the article above illustrates, had Flynn not still been nursing his injury in the early part of the 2012 regular season, Pete might have made a change.

And just to emphasize the point, here's another article:

Flynn hasn't seen a single snap during the regular season. He suffered from a sore elbow that prevented him from playing in the third preseason game, an impressive 44-14 win that would eventually help land Wilson the starting role.

"He (Flynn) has never thrown a lot in any of the practices. He's just, he's done the things we've asked him to do. We've counted on him to play in every game. We haven't had a third quarterback on the roster because Matt can play, but we have had a pitch count for him in a sense and made sure that we didn't work him past where we thought it was the right way to do it."

https://seattle.sbnation.com/seattle-se ... matt-flynn

[NorthHawk]

I remember hearing comments that Wilson was the obvious starter (by the players) from the start, even when Flynn was healthy.
I don't have any links, but I remember being surprised by the comments of the presenter. It was one of those Seahawks Gameday
type of shows on whatever channel. I remember thinking wow, choosing a rookie over a player they are spending $10 million for.

On another note, I think these last 2 years have been Petes best coaching job of his professional career. Consider how well the
team has done while losing its core players and perennial Pro Bowlers. I've said this before, but it's quite an achievement that
the team has had a transformation of talent and still been very competitive all through the process. Most teams take a deep
dive in production for a few years while they rebuild. Ours has just had a slight dip. And that's not even taking into account
the massive number of injuries at key positions this year.

[RiverDog]

I remember hearing comments that Wilson was the obvious starter (by the players) from the start, even when Flynn was healthy. I don't have any links, but I remember being surprised by the comments of the presenter. It was one of those Seahawks Gameday type of shows on whatever channel. I remember thinking wow, choosing a rookie over a player they are spending $10 million for.

I don't doubt it. Russell did have a better preseason, but only marginally. Flynn's performance didn't do anything to take him out of the running and there were a lot of good reasons, besides the financial considerations, that Pete could have used to justify starting a healthy Matt Flynn as opposed to Russell. My point was that Flynn's injury made that decision a lot easier. Once Flynn was hurt, it went from an "advantage Russell" to a "slam dunk Russell". Pete's own words are an indication that Flynn's injury factored into his decision to start and/or stick with Russell.

On another note, I think these last 2 years have been Petes best coaching job of his professional career. Consider how well the team has done while losing its core players and perennial Pro Bowlers. I've said this before, but it's quite an achievement that the team has had a transformation of talent and still been very competitive all through the process. Most teams take a deep dive in production for a few years while they rebuild. Ours has just had a slight dip. And that's not even taking into account the massive number of injuries at key positions this year.

I agree that Pete and John have done a really good job this season, but I'm not sure if I'm going to go so far as to say it's his best coaching job of his tenure. We forget just how big of a mess this team was in Holmgren's final season and the Mora year.

[Hawktawk]

Ok I stand corrected on Flynn. Clearly we got the right guy. It’s pretty hard to argue with 2013 as Carroll’s best year as coach IMO. People forget how banged up that team was , especially on the offensive line much of the regular season .