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I know this may chafe some of you, and I understand. But, for the first time in as long as I can remember...I am seriously considering not watching the Seahawks game this Sunday.

Why? I am absolutely beyond tired of watching our pathetic offense stumble and piss their pants week in and week out.

Overreaction to Week 1? Perhaps. That is fair; I'll wear that. But for me, it wasn't that we lost (which I expected; you just don't win in Lambeau against Rodgers, heck we haven't done that since 1999). It was the WAY we lost. Some of you are explaining it away already, saying "it was Week 1, relax."

Here's the problem: Our best chance at getting back to the Super Bowl is getting HFA and playing the NFCCG at C Link. We have won all 3 of our NFCCG's in our home stadium. We have seen the last few seasons what happens when we have to go on the road in the Divisional round (Panthers and Falcons each had their way with us). In short, we can't afford to wait until the second half of the season to get it together.

My hope was the embarrassment of last season would motivate this whole franchise (front office, coaches, players) to prepare in earnest to start out fast. By embarrassment, I mean... scoring 12 points (Including a last minute TD) against Miami at home, 3 in Los Angeles, 6 (in 5 quarters) in Arizona, 13 in New Orleans (against a historically bad defense), 5 in Tampa Bay, 10 in Green Bay (including a garbage TD).

I have to admit, it is taking a toll on me. It is also not a singular problem - it is multi-faceted. Poor drafts, poor adjustments, poor game plans, poor offensive line players, a "franchise" QB who seems to be suffering from shell shock (can you blame him?), no running game, no offensive innovation.

When does it end??

The other huge downer for me is we are wasting the prime years of Wilson's career. He is never going to last constantly getting harassed and crushed. How many more pictures do we need to see of Wilson running for his life? I have made my feelings about Wilson known in another thread (I think he has become too star-centric and "Hollywood"). But, I still love him...and I still want to see him in Seattle for his entire career. In all fairness, he needs to get better. FACT. Only a myopic homer would not see ANY improvement available in his game. The biggest area is red zone, where he has just not been good the last few seasons. I think his height is a factor in a compressed field space. I also think Bevell is not helping him out much.

I dunno, I mostly wanted to vent. I am just damn frustrated... I expected more this season.

I know, I know...we will kill SF this week and everything will be right. Not for me. I want to see this offense function against good defenses. We make the Packers defense (arguably much improved) consistently look like world killers. Remember that stretch in 2012 when we scored 150 points in 3 games, including smashing the then very good 49ers? Remember down the strecth in 2015, when Russ was the best QB in the NFL? He ended up with a 110 rating, 34 TDs, 68% completion. The highest rated passer in the league. FACT.

I miss that.

Here is a dilemma. The coaches say that college is not producing offensive linemen anymore. Offensive line coaches are trying to find anyone they can make into a o lineman including basketball players.

At the same time we and the media roast teams and especially the Seahawks about spending on oline players.

This is even funnier because with the huge lack of quality players and the Seahawks winning every year they pick well after any decent lineman is even available.

It's a no win situation. All I an say is I have Sunday ticket and I saw dreadful o line play across the league, so there is something to what the coaches are saying.

I will also say that I am sick and tired of Pete Carroll hanging on to the very worn out playbook that is Darrell Bevell. It's on Pete and Pete ONLY.
Get rid of this jackhole.

We miss our run game offensively.
Badly.
With Rawls being out, Lacy was a dud. Only RB that showed any life in his legs was Carson (who I'd love to see start over Eddie).

We had the best back in Beast to help offset (and put off) any improvements to the OL. If our F.O. and Tom could evaluate talent worth a damn, we would've only needed to hit on one decent lineman pick per draft over the last 3 yrs. Even at that low rate per, we woulda increased our odds of having something to build upon by now. Instead, it's the usual mad scientist experiments, with Cable trying to build his 6'8", 300 lb monster.

It isn't working.

I still think this is a 10 or 11 win team, but with no run game to help move the chains, it could be one exhausted defense limping across the finish line to the post season.

Largent80 wrote:Here is a dilemma. The coaches say that college is not producing offensive linemen anymore. Offensive line coaches are trying to find anyone they can make into a o lineman including basketball players.

At the same time we and the media roast teams and especially the Seahawks about spending on oline players.

This is even funnier because with the huge lack of quality players and the Seahawks winning every year they pick well after any decent lineman is even available.

It's a no win situation. All I an say is I have Sunday ticket and I saw dreadful o line play across the league, so there is something to what the coaches are saying.

Agreed on the overall state of O lines, but how come other teams with deficient lines move the ball and score points?

The answer? They scheme for it.

You have a sieve of a line, you don't call 7-step drops (hey, Bevell). No passes to Prosise leaking out of the backfield against pressure (hey, Bevell). No screens, which is a pressure killer (hey, Bevell). This line should be great at screens, they let people through all the time. No draws or counter-draws (hey, Bevell). Rollouts (hey, Bevell).

You can't do much when Pete isn't holding his coaches to the same standards as he is the players. I don't know what is up with Pete. Pure speculation is that he feels bad for Bevell taking the heat for the Super Bowl loss and Cable for the offensive line woes. Maybe he just likes working with them and at his age he's not interested in change. Maybe he feels he won a Super Bowl with Bevell at OC and Cable as O-line coach and he can do it again. I still think we won a Super Bowl with a defense Pete built with the offense barely needing to help. We lost because of a bad offensive call (one of the worst in history given the personnel) and just general poor offensive line development and second half offensive play-calling.

I feel like we need a change on offensive coaching staff. These coaches aren't doing a good job at picking talent on the O-line. The OC is under-utilizing expensive players like Graham.

Only Pete can decide when the offensive coaching needs something new. I been watching too long to stop watching the team because of offensive woes. This is still the best team we've had in history. Our defense is still amazing. Hopefully the offense can get their heads out of their asses, though I doubt they will until they change the offensive coaching.

We all know until they protect Russell properly, he's going to perform at a lower level. It's usually enough to get us to the playoffs. But the days of Russell running around making magic seem done. He needs an O-line to run an effective passing offense. He needs to learn to get the ball out of his hands faster. He needs to learn to work like Brady and Peyton when their O-lines weren't great.

Aseahawkfan wrote:You can't do much when Pete isn't holding his coaches to the same standards as he is the players. I don't know what is up with Pete. Pure speculation is that he feels bad for Bevell taking the heat for the Super Bowl loss and Cable for the offensive line woes. Maybe he just likes working with them and at his age he's not interested in change. Maybe he feels he won a Super Bowl with Bevell at OC and Cable as O-line coach and he can do it again. I still think we won a Super Bowl with a defense Pete built with the offense barely needing to help. We lost because of a bad offensive call (one of the worst in history given the personnel) and just general poor offensive line development and second half offensive play-calling.

I feel like we need a change on offensive coaching staff. These coaches aren't doing a good job at picking talent on the O-line. The OC is under-utilizing expensive players like Graham.

Only Pete can decide when the offensive coaching needs something new. I been watching too long to stop watching the team because of offensive woes. This is still the best team we've had in history. Our defense is still amazing. Hopefully the offense can get their heads out of their asses, though I doubt they will until they change the offensive coaching.

We all know until they protect Russell properly, he's going to perform at a lower level. It's usually enough to get us to the playoffs. But the days of Russell running around making magic seem done. He needs an O-line to run an effective passing offense. He needs to learn to get the ball out of his hands faster. He needs to learn to work like Brady and Peyton when their O-lines weren't great.

Good post.

I have come to a realization that a change needs to be made. I think we can function with Bevell and no Cable, or Cable and no Bevell... but those two combined are a big problem.

Aseahawkfan wrote:You can't do much when Pete isn't holding his coaches to the same standards as he is the players. I don't know what is up with Pete. Pure speculation is that he feels bad for Bevell taking the heat for the Super Bowl loss and Cable for the offensive line woes. Maybe he just likes working with them and at his age he's not interested in change. Maybe he feels he won a Super Bowl with Bevell at OC and Cable as O-line coach and he can do it again. I still think we won a Super Bowl with a defense Pete built with the offense barely needing to help. We lost because of a bad offensive call (one of the worst in history given the personnel) and just general poor offensive line development and second half offensive play-calling.

I feel like we need a change on offensive coaching staff. These coaches aren't doing a good job at picking talent on the O-line. The OC is under-utilizing expensive players like Graham.

Only Pete can decide when the offensive coaching needs something new. I been watching too long to stop watching the team because of offensive woes. This is still the best team we've had in history. Our defense is still amazing. Hopefully the offense can get their heads out of their asses, though I doubt they will until they change the offensive coaching.

We all know until they protect Russell properly, he's going to perform at a lower level. It's usually enough to get us to the playoffs. But the days of Russell running around making magic seem done. He needs an O-line to run an effective passing offense. He needs to learn to get the ball out of his hands faster. He needs to learn to work like Brady and Peyton when their O-lines weren't great.

Nice post but some incorrect info

1 Brady and Rodgers have both struggled when their oline were bottom 5, like Rw has had for his career in Seattle. Also Rw is getting the ball out quicker when there is some place to get it out. Problem is as the announcers pointed out last week there was no place to go alot.

Wilson needs to be in a moving pocket . He needs to be in more heavy sets with backs in to block and maybe tight ends on both sides. He could be successful in 2 reciever sets if he is standing up. Then you leak out a te or a back in the flat. Run a draw now and again. Develop the run then you can go play action and drop 5 or 7.russ is deadly on long balls when clean. He was getting hit in the knee releasing the ball to lock causing him to overcompensate with his cannon arm. I still got faith.
But Bevell needs to go. He's the key. In 2012 the ravens fired cam Cameron halfway through a super bowl winning season. I cannot understand bevell still being on this staff and neither can the pundits.

Either way I've either attended in person watched on tv or listened on the radio to every game since the 70,s IG. It is going to suck when they get bad someday but I will always watch.

Hawktawk wrote:Wilson needs to be in a moving pocket . He needs to be in more heavy sets with backs in to block and maybe tight ends on both sides. He could be successful in 2 reciever sets if he is standing up. Then you leak out a te or a back in the flat. Run a draw now and again. Develop the run then you can go play action and drop 5 or 7.russ is deadly on long balls when clean. He was getting hit in the knee releasing the ball to lock causing him to overcompensate with his cannon arm. I still got faith.
But Bevell needs to go. He's the key. In 2012 the ravens fired cam Cameron halfway through a super bowl winning season. I cannot understand bevell still being on this staff and neither can the pundits.

Either way I've either attended in person watched on tv or listened on the radio to every game since the 70,s IG. It is going to suck when they get bad someday but I will always watch.

Agreed (moving pocket). I have said it 50 times. Roll him out away from the pressure, get him mobile and truck his receivers in drags with him. It also gives a threat of him breaking off and running.

The problem with heavy sets and multiple tight ends or extra linemen in to block is you reduce your available number of receivers. We did a lot of max protect against Green Bay, and it wasn't working. Even the extra blockers can't hold the line long enough.

Bevell benefited from Lynch making him look better. It's easy to call game with a ground and pound, ball control, yard eating, time of possession dominant back like Lynch. Lynch opened up the play action and we also had Zach Miller, who was tragically underrated.

I will watch. I am just feeling sorry for myself. I allow that on my Wednesday's of game week.

I'll be all fired up to kick some Santa Clark tail come Sunday.

Mark Schlereth says the RB makes the OL. It's just one point of view, but he did win 3 Super Bowls and have 2 Pro Bowls to his credit in 12 years in the NFL.
Maybe that's why the Vikings were successful on Monday night.

Regarding Bevell, his hands are partly tied in that Cable is responsible for the run game. Maybe Cable is putting the kibosh on some otherwise creative run plays.
I don't know, but it may be a contributing factor.
His play calling and designing of pass plays is ridiculously conservative and predictable, so maybe it is all him.

I ask again, what potential OC would come here knowing that the Assistant HC will be his OL coach and has final say on the run game?
I think a lot of coaches would want to run all aspects of the Offense, and I don't see Pete/John getting rid of both in the middle of the season.

Yeah, I wish we were better at OL, and made better play calls. That said, it was one game, we almost beat the packers on the road to start the season. I'm not worried at this point. I think with the personnel we are better than what we saw (heard on the radio in my case for most of the game) last week.

NorthHawk wrote:Mark Schlereth says the RB makes the OL. It's just one point of view, but he did win 3 Super Bowls and have 2 Pro Bowls to his credit in 12 years in the NFL.
Maybe that's why the Vikings were successful on Monday night.

Regarding Bevell, his hands are partly tied in that Cable is responsible for the run game. Maybe Cable is putting the kibosh on some otherwise creative run plays.
I don't know, but it may be a contributing factor.
His play calling and designing of pass plays is ridiculously conservative and predictable, so maybe it is all him.

I ask again, what potential OC would come here knowing that the Assistant HC will be his OL coach and has final say on the run game?
I think a lot of coaches would want to run all aspects of the Offense, and I don't see Pete/John getting rid of both in the middle of the season.

I read a statistical analysis that indicated the RB was far more important than the O-line in the running game. A good running back makes poor or average lines look great, but vice versa is not true.

Aseahawkfan wrote:You can't do much when Pete isn't holding his coaches to the same standards as he is the players. I don't know what is up with Pete. Pure speculation is that he feels bad for Bevell taking the heat for the Super Bowl loss and Cable for the offensive line woes. Maybe he just likes working with them and at his age he's not interested in change. Maybe he feels he won a Super Bowl with Bevell at OC and Cable as O-line coach and he can do it again. I still think we won a Super Bowl with a defense Pete built with the offense barely needing to help. We lost because of a bad offensive call (one of the worst in history given the personnel) and just general poor offensive line development and second half offensive play-calling.

I feel like we need a change on offensive coaching staff. These coaches aren't doing a good job at picking talent on the O-line. The OC is under-utilizing expensive players like Graham.

Only Pete can decide when the offensive coaching needs something new. I been watching too long to stop watching the team because of offensive woes. This is still the best team we've had in history. Our defense is still amazing. Hopefully the offense can get their heads out of their asses, though I doubt they will until they change the offensive coaching.

We all know until they protect Russell properly, he's going to perform at a lower level. It's usually enough to get us to the playoffs. But the days of Russell running around making magic seem done. He needs an O-line to run an effective passing offense. He needs to learn to get the ball out of his hands faster. He needs to learn to work like Brady and Peyton when their O-lines weren't great.

It does seem strange that Pete seems to be attached at the hip to his assistant coaches. Remember how quickly he dumped his first OC? Is it blind loyalty or is it that he doesn't feel that he'd be upgrading the position should he let Cable go?

I've never been a big Tom Cable fan. He just doesn't seem to identify and develop talent. He's been given some fairly decent drafting positions and hasn't turned any of them into a Pro Bowl caliber player. The only player that he can remotely point to that he's developed is Britt, and that was only after two failed experiments at other positions.

I'm not sure that we want Russell adjusting his style to that of Brady's and Peyton's. Those two were never scrambling quarterbacks. The fact that Russell has had so much success scrambling and extending plays is going to lead him into taking more sacks than a Brady or Manning would. If he does start getting rid of the ball at the first hint of trouble, then we can say goodbye to all those ad lib plays that has so defined his career to this point.

I completely agree RD. Russ is never going to be a statue although for his career he's quite good inside the pocket assuming there is one. But his ability to get to the edge or gash a team up the middle like Sunday is part of what makes him DangerRuss. He is capable of throwing on the run very well also. lost in his mediocre day was the play he was running for his life to the left sideline and threw a perfect dart across his body to P Rich for a toe tapper. That's probably the toughest throw to make and he does it quite often.
As I say he's not the biggest problem. Scheme and O line are.

Part of the Offensive plan is for Russ to run with the ball and put pressure in the Defense.
We didn't see it much last year because of his injuries, but that's how we were successful in the past so I doubt having him become a pocket passer is in the plans even though he could do well as that type of QB.

Bevell needs to reel in his trying to fool people urge.

He's been here 7 years. His surprises have been seen thousands of times which is just one of many reasons of why he should be gone.

The first play of the 2017 season was a swing pass to a rookie RB, he followed that up with 2 more failed passes. All this did was put extra pressure on a bad o-line. AND I might add, we are a "run first team".

Spot on Irish! Since many of us met on the old PI forum, 18 years ago, how long we ended up having to wait to get a Franchise QB? One who wasnt a turnover machine and knew we were never out of it. Most fans have given Pete all the rope he is going to get, especially if RW goes down.

In the old PI days with Holmgren we were pining for a solid Defense and especially a MLB. Now it's the opposite.

NorthHawk wrote:In the old PI days with Holmgren we were pining for a solid Defense and especially a MLB. Now it's the opposite.

Oh to have Chumley back as our OC ...

NorthHawk wrote:In the old PI days with Holmgren we were pining for a solid Defense and especially a MLB. Now it's the opposite.

I dont know guy were we too sold out to Hass, who was a good, not Franchise QB.

Talk about two huge egos, Mike (the Walrus) Holmgren or Pete (energizer bunny) Carroll. Mike doesn't know diddly about defense accept how to exploit one. Pete is just the opposite, he don't know diddly about the offense but is a real whiz when it comes to defense. The ONLY difference is that Pete got lucky that John Schneider was from Wisconsin and had gotten a teal good look at RW. Holmgren on the other hand had to fight first with Twitsitt and then Ruskell. But, as I have been saying BEFORE we even went to SB48, BEVELL HAS TO GO!!!!

IMHO Pete WILL be FIRED by Paul Allen if he continues his infatuation with DB. But Bevell is NO to blame for John AND Pete cutting loose most of the O-Linemen they have drafted or signed as UDFA and then developed. They let them go rather than pay them a second contract. I too am sick of it and one more inept performance and I am going to call fpr Pete to be fired while we still have a nucleus that another coach could exploit.

Seahawks4Ever wrote:Talk about two huge egos, Mike (the Walrus) Holmgren or Pete (energizer bunny) Carroll. Mike doesn't know diddly about defense accept how to exploit one. Pete is just the opposite, he don't know diddly about the offense but is a real whiz when it comes to defense. The ONLY difference is that Pete got lucky that John Schneider was from Wisconsin and had gotten a teal good look at RW. Holmgren on the other hand had to fight first with Twitsitt and then Ruskell. But, as I have been saying BEFORE we even went to SB48, BEVELL HAS TO GO!!!!

IMHO Pete WILL be FIRED by Paul Allen if he continues his infatuation with DB. But Bevell is NO to blame for John AND Pete cutting loose most of the O-Linemen they have drafted or signed as UDFA and then developed. They let them go rather than pay them a second contract. I too am sick of it and one more inept performance and I am going to call fpr Pete to be fired while we still have a nucleus that another coach could exploit.

I'm still two full seasons away from calling for Pete's head. Although these past couple of years has tarnished his reputation, he's still one of the top 3 or 4 active head coaches in the league and one of the brightest defensive minds of the past 30 years.

RiverDog wrote:
I'm still two full seasons away from calling for Pete's head. Although these past couple of years has tarnished his reputation, he's still one of the top 3 or 4 active head coaches in the league and one of the brightest defensive minds of the past 30 years.

Me too. I'm trying real hard to adhere to Bill Simmons' 5 year rule;

After your team wins a championship, they immediately get a five-year grace period: You can't complain about anything that happens with your team (trades, draft picks, salary-cap cuts, coaching moves) for five years. There are no exceptions. For instance, the Pats could finish 0-80 over the next five years and I wouldn't say a peep. That's just the way it is. You win the Super Bowl, you go on cruise control for five years. Everything else is gravy.

This year four, the next is year five, then all bets are off.

As long as Pete's getting us to the playoffs and we're in the running every year, I'm not going to do much complaining. All you can hope for a coach to do is get your chit in the hat when it comes to the Super Bowl. Then it's a battle between the best teams. Once Pete starts missing the playoffs or we become a bottom tier playoff team that makes it every other year, then I'll hop on board with maybe a coaching change. I want us to get Jim Harbaugh to replace Pete if he's not already back in the NFL.

It would be pretty difficult to justify firing a coach who makes the playoffs every year.
We're lucky that we can be considered a Super Bowl type team by many if we fix a few things.

Old but Slow wrote:My main fear is that Pete decides to retire. Who then? He has a coaching tree, coaches who have learned under him, so is there one to carry on?

I don't see anyone on our current staff that would even remotely be considered a good candidate, and Pete's coaching tree? You mean guys like Lane Kiffen and Steve Sarkasian? No, thanks. The only one that's been truly successful is Dan Quinn, and I doubt that we could pry him away from Atlanta.

Old but Slow wrote:My main fear is that Pete decides to retire. Who then? He has a coaching tree, coaches who have learned under him, so is there one to carry on?

Jim Harbaugh. Everywhere he goes, he wins.

Wow. That would be a love/hate relationship with some of us fans.
But a winner would cure it all.
He would probably love to come back to this division and shove it to SF (Jed York in particular) twice a year.

I'd rather have Urban Meyer than Hairball.

What about another Pete? U-dub Pete?

Hawk Sista wrote:What about another Pete? U-dub Pete?

Chris Peterson. I really like him. But he doesn't have any NFL experience. Pete Carroll made his name at USC, but he'd been in the NFL for quite some time prior to that.

Moot point. Pete Carroll is our head coach.

I think what irritates me the most about Pete is the smug way he likes to talk down to not only fans but anyone and everyone who challenges his "spin" on the state of the team. Well, now even sports pundits from all over the country questioning his love affair with Bevell. Quite frankly, NONE of the sports casters can understand why Pete has been sticking with this IDIOT. I say it is a serious character flaw of Pete's that he just cannot admit, let alone accept that he has EVER made a bone headed decision. Well, he has made MANY bone headed decisions, such as the Percy Harvin trade. But that trade only scratches the surface.

I know, I know, everybody wants to kiss Pete's behind because he coached the Hawks to back to back SB appearances, winning one. Well, that was almost 4 years ago and I don't see the O-line improving at all!

Seahawks4Ever wrote:I think what irritates me the most about Pete is the smug way he likes to talk down to not only fans but anyone and everyone who challenges his "spin" on the state of the team. Well, now even sports pundits from all over the country questioning his love affair with Bevell. Quite frankly, NONE of the sports casters can understand why Pete has been sticking with this IDIOT. I say it is a serious character flaw of Pete's that he just cannot admit, let alone accept that he has EVER made a bone headed decision. Well, he has made MANY bone headed decisions, such as the Percy Harvin trade. But that trade only scratches the surface.

I know, I know, everybody wants to kiss Pete's behind because he coached the Hawks to back to back SB appearances, winning one. Well, that was almost 4 years ago and I don't see the O-line improving at all!

Wow Pete? Really? ... He's a sweetheart next to most coaches I've ever watched.

Hawk Sista wrote:What about another Pete? U-dub Pete?

How about Coach Pete for OC first? That's how BSU did it. He'd be great to fix the offense and let PC do the defense and voila! a perenial winner is born...