HawkShack.com

Just wondering if we will see this headline in the next 2 weeks. Billacheat accuses Welker of deliberately taking out Talib with a pick but Sherman has been the bigger story so far. All we heard for the last 2 weeks was how Seattle DBs cheat on every play. Denver runs rub routes and pick plays virtually every pass play so I wonder if the media will pick up on it now that a HOF coach has called them out. Im not holding my breath waiting for it to happen though.

The funny thing is the Pat's do the same thing. Personally I think pick plays have gotten out of control, but the NFL calls them very rarely, and they don't call them when guys like Peyton or Brady are throwing the ball. Until the NFL decides to flag them they are going to be out there. We will see a lot of them in two weeks.

They aren't the only ones. Something that every offense uses ( though it is odd, that offenses that aren't considered "high powered" get those picks called. while teams like the Broncos and Pats use them extensively, and to date I have NEVER seen one called on them) the one in the AFCCG was pretty damn blatant, I am not concerned with them to be honest, Denver isn't the first team to use them, and something tells me after depositing the offending receiver once or twice 15 yards out of bounds a few times, should change their minds about doing it.

Are the picks happening far beyond five yards past the line of scrimmage? Pick or no pick, wouldn't that just be offensive PI and called as such? Sorry I haven't been following this much. Having said that, I'd love to see Welker attempt to set a pick on Kam.

Hawktawk wrote:Just wondering if we will see this headline in the next 2 weeks. Billacheat accuses Welker of deliberately taking out Talib with a pick but Sherman has been the bigger story so far. All we heard for the last 2 weeks was how Seattle DBs cheat on every play. Denver runs rub routes and pick plays virtually every pass play so I wonder if the media will pick up on it now that a HOF coach has called them out. Im not holding my breath waiting for it to happen though.

I was so going to write this, or something just like it. It's been needing to be said in it's own thread for a while now. Nicely done!
Of course, the irony of Bill bringing it up is that, he does it constantly too...in fact MOST teams run crossing patterns that really are nothing more than illegal picks. I'm quite sure Seattle has done some of it, though to be honest, it's something I've yelled at my TV screen about, not sure why we don't do it more, since everyone does it, and they all get away with it!

As Boldin said about defensive holding: if it's not called it's not a penalty. Sorry, but it seems a bit hypocritical to me for fans of the LOB to complain about tactics that seem to be against the rules but are never called.

Now, if the media paints the LOB as cheaters but not the Denver offense, that's a different thing. But my complaint would be about the media, not Denver.

Oly wrote:As Boldin said about defensive holding: if it's not called it's not a penalty. Sorry, but it seems a bit hypocritical to me for fans of the LOB to complain about tactics that seem to be against the rules but are never called.

Now, if the media paints the LOB as cheaters but not the Denver offense, that's a different thing. But my complaint would be about the media, not Denver.

That's the whole POINT oly, THEY ARE DOING THAT!!! They have been all along!!!

Just like last week after Kaepernick did the Superman thing, and people said it was funny, and fine, and just him expressing himself, and no big deal, but Sherman is all kinds of racist terms "thug" whatever...it's the BS hypocritical media that is why this is brought up.
I actually heard some media moron today make the obvious comparison between Sherman's comments and Ali, and then had the GALL TO SAY that Ali did it with more class and dignity and was more clever about it...WTF??? Seriously, WTF?!?
Ali said outright racist things, even LIED about another guy calling him a racist epithet. Ali had FAR less tact and said FAR more outlandish things, but now we're romanticising him?
Oh my goodness these people are such hypocritical FRAUDS!!!

It makes me want to tear my hair out sometimes, hearing all the nice things the media has said about the Niners, who are just chock full of guys who have been in or still currently are in SERIOUS trouble with the law, including Crabtree who I will always hate, and have zero respect for, just look into his background and what he was accused of!!
Or the Broncos, America's new team now apparently the team that had several arrests this year, their best defensive player suspended for trying to throw a drug test and two execs arrested for DUIs?

What a freaking JOKE this is turning out to be!!! What a bunch of pure BS. If I were to put on my tin foil hat...it's pretty obvious what's being set up to happen don't you think?

Hopefully, the players just throw this all together and use it as fuel for their fire.

monkey wrote:

Oly wrote:As Boldin said about defensive holding: if it's not called it's not a penalty. Sorry, but it seems a bit hypocritical to me for fans of the LOB to complain about tactics that seem to be against the rules but are never called.

Now, if the media paints the LOB as cheaters but not the Denver offense, that's a different thing. But my complaint would be about the media, not Denver.

That's the whole POINT oly, THEY ARE DOING THAT!!! They have been all along!!!

Just like last week after Kaepernick did the Superman thing, and people said it was funny, and fine, and just him expressing himself, and no big deal, but Sherman is all kinds of racist terms "thug" whatever...it's the BS hypocritical media that is why this is brought up.
I actually heard some media moron today make the obvious comparison between Sherman's comments and Ali, and then had the GALL TO SAY that Ali did it with more class and dignity and was more clever about it...WTF??? Seriously, WTF?!?
Ali said outright racist things, even LIED about another guy calling him a racist epithet. Ali had FAR less tact and said FAR more outlandish things, but now we're romanticising him?
Oh my goodness these people are such hypocritical FRAUDS!!!

It makes me want to tear my hair out sometimes, hearing all the nice things the media has said about the Niners, who are just chock full of guys who have been in or still currently are in SERIOUS trouble with the law, including Crabtree who I will always hate, and have zero respect for, just look into his background and what he was accused of!!
Or the Broncos, America's new team now apparently the team that had several arrests this year, their best defensive player suspended for trying to throw a drug test and two execs arrested for DUIs?

What a freaking JOKE this is turning out to be!!! What a bunch of pure BS. If I were to put on my tin foil hat...it's pretty obvious what's being set up to happen don't you think?

Hopefully, the players just throw this all together and use it as fuel for their fire.

Yeah right on that's what I'm saying. Just pointing out the media hypocrisy, also the officials on occasion. Its been a while but I still remember the two OPIs called on Seattle receivers vs the Colts. And the one big one on Tate in SF. Conversely on the big play by Sherman I got the Crabs Tree clearly shoves him in the back which makes his adjustment and pure athleticism to make that play even more amazing. Honest to God I'm a working stiff and I could break down these match ups better and more unbiased than these overpaid sheep some days along with a lot of my fellow Hawks fans on this forum.

monkey wrote:

Oly wrote:As Boldin said about defensive holding: if it's not called it's not a penalty. Sorry, but it seems a bit hypocritical to me for fans of the LOB to complain about tactics that seem to be against the rules but are never called.

Now, if the media paints the LOB as cheaters but not the Denver offense, that's a different thing. But my complaint would be about the media, not Denver.

That's the whole POINT oly, THEY ARE DOING THAT!!! They have been all along!!!

Just like last week after Kaepernick did the Superman thing, and people said it was funny, and fine, and just him expressing himself, and no big deal, but Sherman is all kinds of racist terms "thug" whatever...it's the BS hypocritical media that is why this is brought up.
I actually heard some media moron today make the obvious comparison between Sherman's comments and Ali, and then had the GALL TO SAY that Ali did it with more class and dignity and was more clever about it...WTF??? Seriously, WTF?!?
Ali said outright racist things, even LIED about another guy calling him a racist epithet. Ali had FAR less tact and said FAR more outlandish things, but now we're romanticising him?
Oh my goodness these people are such hypocritical FRAUDS!!!

It makes me want to tear my hair out sometimes, hearing all the nice things the media has said about the Niners, who are just chock full of guys who have been in or still currently are in SERIOUS trouble with the law, including Crabtree who I will always hate, and have zero respect for, just look into his background and what he was accused of!!
Or the Broncos, America's new team now apparently the team that had several arrests this year, their best defensive player suspended for trying to throw a drug test and two execs arrested for DUIs?

What a freaking JOKE this is turning out to be!!! What a bunch of pure BS. If I were to put on my tin foil hat...it's pretty obvious what's being set up to happen don't you think?

Hopefully, the players just throw this all together and use it as fuel for their fire.

I think we're on the same page here; I just seemed to sense both arguments in the thread and I was trying to say that I thought one of them was valid and one wasn't.

I sense that your comments are directed at my original post OLY. And you have a point I suppose. Seattle's LOB has played aggressive defense for the last 3 years and some would say they have crossed the line. But I sat and rewound Denver plays for my 18 year old son for 30 minutes to show him what a textbook pick play opi looks like and they do it virtually every play. My greatest point is that I have never seen so many hit pieces written in the media about a defensive tactic or strategy by one team in my life and Ive been watching a long time. I'm just hoping for some balance over the next week and a half.

Hawktawk wrote:I sense that your comments are directed at my original post OLY. And you have a point I suppose. Seattle's LOB has played aggressive defense for the last 3 years and some would say they have crossed the line. But I sat and rewound Denver plays for my 18 year old son for 30 minutes to show him what a textbook pick play opi looks like and they do it virtually every play. My greatest point is that I have never seen so many hit pieces written in the media about a defensive tactic or strategy by one team in my life and Ive been watching a long time. I'm just hoping for some balance over the next week and a half.

Maybe a bit, but not much. You even asked in that post if the media will pick it up. The criticism of the Broncos because of the tactic was just a theme in a few responses and so I commented. Not intended to be at anyone.

I am most interested in this topic in terms of how it influences the matchup. Picks are really designed to interfere with man coverage and rely on good timing by the WRs, which requires a clean release. I think that the LOB's zone press coverage is actually the perfect defense to avoid getting killed on these plays. I have a hard time seeing the Broncos' pass offense working as smoothly against the Hawks than against any other team based on the specific defense that Carroll runs.

My early prediction: the passing game will rely on the Hawks' ability to successfully bump the Broncos' strong outside receivers and the shiftiest slot receiver in the game. If they can't prevent Welker from sprinting to the zones in the LB coverage, the Hawks will give up 300+ yards of passing easily. But if they can frustrate Welker and throw off Decker and Thomas' timing, I see Manning having a hard, hard day.

I see the same thing. Seattle of all teams in the league can match up with Denver. Fascinating match up....

I wouldn't get to wrapped up in this "pick play" crap, The Hawks D will level anyone attempting to pick off one of their own! That said, the Broncos have not faced a D even close to the caliber of the Hawks! Time to play big boy ball,... the Broncos will have a very sad awakening come super bowl Sunday!

Oly wrote:
I think we're on the same page here; I just seemed to sense both arguments in the thread and I was trying to say that I thought one of them was valid and one wasn't.

LOL! Yeah we are Oly, sorry about that little rant, I've just had it with all the crap about Sherman out there...people who have no idea who he is, and who are hiding behind a screen name on a computer screen calling Sherman all kinds of names and lecturing us all on CLASS...those people can BITE ME!
I understood where you were coming from though Oly, and I agree, it would be very hypocritical for fans who defend the Legion of Boom to rip Broncos for the pick plays.
The truth of the matter is EVERY NFL team tries to see how much grabbing and holding and hand checking etc... they can get away with in pass coverage, just the same as EVERY NFL team runs plays that really bend the heck out of, if not outright shatter the rules about picks on pass plays.