HawkShack.com

Clady and a 7th to the Jets, a 5th to the Broncos.

http://espn.go.com/newyork/nfl/story/_/ ... round-pick

Unless JS is confident Clady will never play again, I don't see why he didn't make a better offer than what the Jets gave. Wow.

Oly wrote:Clady and a 7th to the Jets, a 5th to the Broncos.

http://espn.go.com/newyork/nfl/story/_/ ... round-pick

Unless JS is confident Clady will never play again, I don't see why he didn't make a better offer than what the Jets gave. Wow.

Again, this is just more evidence of how comfortable the hawks are with Gilliam at LT. They could have kept okung for cheap. They could have traded a 5th fir clady. They (possibly) could have (maybe still can but I really doubt it) traded for Thomas. This all points to the fact that they feel completely comfortable with Gilliam starting at LT. There is still the draft, but you don't go into the draft, with the 26th pick, and just assume you are going to pick up a starting LT.

Based on what I've read, the Jets haven't asked or demanded Clady restructure his contract either, which would have been a prerequisite to a Seattle trade ( though I absolutely agree they are comfortable with Gilliam there, or at the very least as comfortable as an expensive veteran coming off a couple serious injuries.).

Clady's injury history has been as bad or worse than Okung, so he might be considered too much of a risk and a poor financial gamble with our Cap space.

I'm pretty sure that JS contacted the Donkeys and found out that their was no guarantee that Clady would renegotiate down from the 9.5m cap hit, effectively killing any trade and with Kaep doing the same thing holding up his trade, It's becoming more the norm. We just didn't have the cap space without "Marshawn" happening first. We also have other players that need to sign their tenders. Isn't Lewis technically still unsigned? Aren't there some others? Doug Baldwin is due his next contract, as we have done with all the other main starters at the end of their 3rd year of the 4 year deal, and they haven't started talking yet. Doug is about as close to a "#1" receiver as we've had in a long, long time and getting better as Russell get's better. It's obvious... We're in CAP HELLLLLLLL...

Now, what the he!! is going on with Marshawn and his sidestepping his obligation to 'retire'? Maybe he doesn't want to retire and would prefer that we cut him or trade him. It's not like he's going to go public and I doubt he gives crap since he had his fallout with management a couple years ago. There's your 'cap space'...

js

HumanCockroach wrote:Based on what I've read, the Jets haven't asked or demanded Clady restructure his contract either, which would have been a prerequisite to a Seattle trade ( though I absolutely agree they are comfortable with Gilliam there, or at the very least as comfortable as an expensive veteran coming off a couple serious injuries.).

Ah. That explains it (the restructure part). I can also believe that they're comfortable with Gilliam, but I don't share that confidence. When it comes to the OL, they've lost any benefit of my doubt.

You guys thought Okung had injury problems, Clady actually has missed more gmes than he's played recently:

The Jets are reportedly acquiring LT Ryan Clady, who has missed 30 of the past 48 games due to injury, to replace the durable D'Brickashaw Ferguson.

And while I agree we didn't want to pay clady what the Jets are, I don't buy at all that we're in "cap hell".

History (or Past Performance on player evaluations) has shown that if John & Pete did not make the move then the move was not going to be a good one for the Seahawks.

mykc14 wrote:
Again, this is just more evidence of how comfortable the hawks are with Gilliam at LT. They could have kept okung for cheap. They could have traded a 5th fir clady.

*Ding* that's it right there.
It's not that they couldn't have done something else, it's that they didn't WANT to do anything else, because they truly believe that Gilliam is the answer at LT.
So do I. I think he's going to be terrific.

The best part of this Clady trade is it probably takes another team (Jets) out of the equation when it comes to the draft. At #20 they would have likely been thinking about taking one of the LT's that the Seahawks are hoping fall to them, (Ifedi, Srpiggs, unlikely event that Conklin slides past the top 15 where I think he'll go, etc...).
Personally I'd bet that Germain Ifedi (Texas A&M LT) will be our pick at #26 (and maybe even if we trade down just a little) because he perfectly checks all the boxes.
He's raw, and will need some coaching up in terms of technique, but he's EXTREMELY athletic and explosive, he's very strong, and can play either tackle or guard position. I would project him to play either LG or RT day one, and do quite well, easily upgrading either spot.

I've been thinking Ifedi would be their target as well because of his experience at both Guard and Tackle spots. That versatility seems to be a big thing and adding to his SPARQ numbers, he would be the best fit of the expected remaining OT/OG players. If he's gone, I wonder about Spriggs as from what I've read, there are a lot of opinions that he's a LT only. Some say he can play RT, but very few think he can effectively move inside - at least from what I've seen and heard. I'm not sure they would trade down a few spots if Ifedi is there as there are expected to be few OT's of that athleticism left after he and Spriggs. The question would be are they willing to make that gamble after the start of last year?

Another consideration (if he's available at 26) could be Edge rusher Emmanuel Ogbah who has an excellent SPARQ number.
Perhaps our FO really is comfortable with our OT's and will concentrate on the interior of the OL in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. We really need help and serious competition there, too.

HumanCockroach wrote:Based on what I've read, the Jets haven't asked or demanded Clady restructure his contract either, which would have been a prerequisite to a Seattle trade ( though I absolutely agree they are comfortable with Gilliam there, or at the very least as comfortable as an expensive veteran coming off a couple serious injuries.).

I heard that they did actually rework his deal as part of the trade.

EDIT: here is an article discussing his re-worked deal. Basically 6 mil in year 1 with 3 mil guaranteed and up to 3 more mil in escalators, with a team option for next season. Hard to say exactly what the cap hit would be this year.

http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2016/0 ... _jets.html

Oly wrote:Ah. That explains it (the restructure part). I can also believe that they're comfortable with Gilliam, but I don't share that confidence. When it comes to the OL, they've lost any benefit of my doubt.

I'm right there with ya, Oly.

It's also getting deeper and deeper into the offseason and Pete's pledge to upgrade the OL is looking more and more like a bunch of double talk. Or they that confident that they'll pick up one or two OL's in the draft that will be able to step in and contribute from the get-go?

savvy man wrote:History (or Past Performance on player evaluations) has shown that if John & Pete did not make the move then the move was not going to be a good one for the Seahawks.

This.

Despite the uncertainty in the OL, the win forever is a bigger picture philosophy that finds value in the middle rounds of the draft. Trust in PCJS. They'll do it again.

Past performance is no guarantee of future success.
This game has a lot of turn over with players and management. Just look at Coughlin with 2 Super Bowl wins and is now ushered out the door.
But they've (Front Office and Scouting Dept.) been on a roll so maybe we can get another 5 years of good drafts out of them.

NorthHawk wrote:Past performance is no guarantee of future success.
This game has a lot of turn over with players and management. Just look at Coughlin with 2 Super Bowl wins and is now ushered out the door.
But they've (Front Office and Scouting Dept.) been on a roll so maybe we can get another 5 years of good drafts out of them.

Yea, and Coughlin is just one example. Mike Shanahan had 3 rings, and he got ushered out the door. So did Joe Gibbs (ironically both got ushered out by the same team). J/B Pete and John have had some really good success in the recent past doesn't necessarily mean that I'm lining up for their Kool-Aid, especially when it comes to their judgment of OL talent.

savvyman wrote:History (or Past Performance on player evaluations) has shown that if John & Pete did not make the move then the move was not going to be a good one for the Seahawks.

Vegaseahawk wrote: Despite the uncertainty in the OL, the win forever is a bigger picture philosophy that finds value in the middle rounds of the draft. Trust in PCJS. They'll do it again.

Hmmm...I just don't know how well we can judge deals that didn't happen. I generally have faith in the front office, but I just don't understand how we can know that they were wise to not sign anyone at a position. After all, they didn't make a move to replace Unger with someone not on the team, or to find a better guard than Britt, and I'm not willing to say that history shows those were good calls.

Do I generally trust them? Yeah. Are they the best GM/coach combo in the league? Top 2 if not the top. Am I counting my blessings to be a fan in the golden age of Hawks football, and do I have faith they'll continue that golden age? Hell yeah.

But would the Hawks have had homefield if the OL wasn't such a fustercluck early in the year? I think so. Would the Hawks have gone to the Super Bowl if they had homefield? Again, I think so. So you'll have to forgive me for not having full faith in how they build the OL, especially after seeing them trot out Nowack and Britt to protect Wilson from inside pressure.

One big deal not made:

Imagine how different the team would look if they had actually signed Peyton Manning who they were taking a hard run at signing.
The OL would have to be far better, but would the results have been as good?

NorthHawk wrote:One big deal not made:

Imagine how different the team would look if they had actually signed Peyton Manning who they were taking a hard run at signing.
The OL would have to be far better, but would the results have been as good?

Oh, no doubt that was a big no-deal. That said, while I'm so glad we have Wilson, who's to say that we wouldn't be coming off 3 SB wins in a row with a ball-control offense ran by Manning? Unlikely, but in general I just don't feel comfortable comparing what happened vs. what didn't and saying with confidence that one is better.

Just about the only position group where they've lost my faith is OL. But even then, while I don't necessarily trust what they're doing with the OL, I'm also not willing to say I know it won't work out or that the players they didn't sign would be better. I was more surprised they didn't make the move than saying they made a mistake.

I get the impression they have a decision matrix and from their point of view the OL (with an extremely mobile QB) can be an area where fewer dollar costs need be spent. It's not something we are accustomed to so it's difficult to accept but it might be the wave of the future considering the league wide coaching/FO's dissatisfaction with Offensive Linemen coming out of College. It's odd in that they (across the league) pay top dollar for good QB's, then spend little protecting that asset, but if players aren't as good as they formerly were, they might as well have a slowly revolving door along the line and keep the costs low.

NorthHawk wrote:I get the impression they have a decision matrix and from their point of view the OL (with an extremely mobile QB) can be an area where fewer dollar costs need be spent. It's not something we are accustomed to so it's difficult to accept but it might be the wave of the future considering the league wide coaching/FO's dissatisfaction with Offensive Linemen coming out of College. It's odd in that they (across the league) pay top dollar for good QB's, then spend little protecting that asset, but if players aren't as good as they formerly were, they might as well have a slowly revolving door along the line and keep the costs low.

I'm pretty sure you've captured their thinking, but after seeing the wunderteam of Britt and Nowak early on, I'm not a fan of the matrix they have. We'll just have to see if Gilliam can hold down that spot.