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I have found it interesting that what I thought was the biggest blown play by the officials yesterday has gotten zero press. Third Qtr. NO has the ball 2nd and 10. Brees hands off to Robinson who slips and appears to go down without contact. He gets up and Bennett blows him up for what looked to be a 5 yard loss and his 3rd forced fumble of the game. Bobby Wagner has a clear recovery. Referee Terry MaCauly runs in and calls the runner down by contact. To pour salt in the wound he flags Wagner for UC because he was so upset at the call.

We ended up getting the ball on downs in that drive but about 20 yards further down field. Had we gotten the ball at the 34, where the fumble occurred, it was likely another 3 points and could have made a difference in the game.

My assumption is that due to being called down by contact the play was unchallengeable (because a whistle should have blown). Both FOX dipshits seemed to think is was a clear fumble, but did not clarify whether it was unchallengeable. They did not set up a replay listening for a whistle either.

What do you all think? Was it a fumble and eff up by MaCauly? Did PC miss the challenge, or was it unchallengeable?

I'll watch that, Folk.

Again, perhaps another indication that a lot of things went right for NO (things that typically won't, like sure interceptions bouncing off two defenders and into the receiver's arms, etc) to make that game a lot closer than one might expect.

Couple things. When it happened I felt the same way, however, the RB was touched, and while it looked from the back angle he wasn't down, and after replays he didn't look down, when they replayed from the front, he was ( left elbow hits the ground, which isn't considered part of the hand, and indeed "downs" the player) they did show the replays, and ultimately they would have ruled him on the ground. That said, it upset and frustrated me, that the whistle wasn't blown ( which it definitely wasn't) until AFTER they let the fumble occur. It felt like they were waiting to see if he escaped and made a play, when Seattle did instead they were johnny on the spot to rule him down, even without a whistle. That is lazy and could have cost Seattle dearly. For instance had he found a way to escape and run for a huge gain or a TD Seattle could waste a TO and possibly challenge maybe it shows he is down and maybe not, should have never been left to chance.

HumanCockroach wrote:Couple things. When it happened I felt the same way, however, the RB was touched, and while it looked from the back angle he wasn't down, and after replays he didn't look down, when they replayed from the front, he was ( left elbow hits the ground, which isn't considered part of the hand, and indeed "downs" the player) they did show the replays, and ultimately they would have ruled him on the ground. That said, it upset and frustrated me, that the whistle wasn't blown ( which it definitely wasn't) until AFTER they let the fumble occur. It felt like they were waiting to see if he escaped and made a play, when Seattle did instead they were johnny on the spot to rule him down, even without a whistle. That is lazy and could have cost Seattle dearly. For instance had he found a way to escape and run for a huge gain or a TD Seattle could waste a TO and possibly challenge maybe it shows he is down and maybe not, should have never been left to chance.

Shoot, HC. Now I'm gonna have to go back and watch it again. Thanks for your input.

They did call him down by contact. Anything that happens after a down by contact call is not challengeable. I'm positive we would have challenged it had it been permissible.

Thanks for the heads up, HC. I'll keep your observation in mind when I re-watch the game later this week. My impression was that he was never down, but I was watching his knee, not his elbow.

My impression was that he was never down, but I was watching his knee, not his elbow.

Confirmed (for those still in doubt). Elbow was firmly planted on the ground. Correct call.

FolkCrusader wrote:I have found it interesting that what I thought was the biggest blown play by the officials yesterday has gotten zero press. Third Qtr. NO has the ball 2nd and 10.

Every time the refs blow a big call like that, ESPN ignores it completely.
Instead they focus on the Baldwin catch and the fact that it was challenged, suggesting that maybe it wasn't a catch.

That was most definitely a fumble! That was a horsecrap call pure and simple! What doesn't surprise me though, is that the media is completely ignoring it.
When they show the picks that the Seahawks defense just missed, one that ended in a LUCKY big completion, they just say, "good things happen to great players".

Don't listen to the media, they are horrible and will just piss you off. Don't expect the media to point out that this game would have likely been a huge blowout if the ref had gotten that call right. It's true, it would have been a blowout...but you won't hear that from the media.
They love Drew Brees too much.

HumanCockroach wrote:Couple things. When it happened I felt the same way, however, the RB was touched, .

I completely disagree.
He was NEVER touched, so he was not down by contact.
Yes he was down, no one disagrees with that, but he was NEVER touched!!
That was a fumble, period end of story. But the ref screwed up by blowing the play dead, down by contact. He blew it, period.

burrrton wrote:

My impression was that he was never down, but I was watching his knee, not his elbow.

Confirmed (for those still in doubt). Elbow was firmly planted on the ground. Correct call.

It's not about whether he was down (he was) it's about whether or not he got TOUCHED, or was down by contact, he wasn't! Dudes elbow was down, but he never got touched. He got back up and tried running because he KNEW he hadn't been touched, so yeah that was a fumble. Lousy call.

Dudes elbow was down, but he never got touched.

I'm looking at it right now, and it looks like Bennett caught him, spinning him a bit.

Hard to be positive, but you can see Bennett kinda spin and the runner's right arm fling back.

monkey wrote:

burrrton wrote:

My impression was that he was never down, but I was watching his knee, not his elbow.

Confirmed (for those still in doubt). Elbow was firmly planted on the ground. Correct call.

It's not about whether he was down (he was) it's about whether or not he got TOUCHED, or was down by contact, he wasn't! Dudes elbow was down, but he never got touched. He got back up and tried running because he KNEW he hadn't been touched, so yeah that was a fumble. Lousy call.

Just watched the recording of the play now - it was clear without a doubt that he was never touched when his elbow hit the ground - the announcers both stated unequivocally that it was a fumble and he was not touched.

IMHO, it was at the very least, worthy of additional discussion and an explanation. That it didn't happen made it very frustrating. The dropped INTs, deflecting the ball to the rcvr will not happen next week.

Hawk Sista wrote:IMHO, it was at the very least, worthy of additional discussion and an explanation. That it didn't happen made it very frustrating. The dropped INTs, deflecting the ball to the rcvr will not happen next week.

Can't argue with that, and yeah, if the 49ers/Panthers think the same breaks will go their way, I'll take our chances.

I'm not taking a shot at Earl, but had he not made the play on the ball that he did, our corner (Lane?) would have more than likely made the pick on that deflected pass. It's pretty frustrating when you have two guys in position but can't make the play.

RiverDog wrote:I'm not taking a shot at Earl, but had he not made the play on the ball that he did, our corner (Lane?) would have more than likely made the pick on that deflected pass. It's pretty frustrating when you have two guys in position but can't make the play.

That comes from everyone giving 100% effort. I'd rather see that than both DBs waiting for the other to make a play. The game prior to Sunday they had 3 players collide in the end zone going after the ball. It's something that's going to happen when you have a backfield full of ball hawks.

I'll rewatch the play. At the time I remember being certain that he most definitely was touched ( at least in the process of slipping, and questioned only if he was down) most here should know that any part of a defender touching a player either on the way to or in the process of even a slip places the player down, so even if Bennet or whomever didn't force the RB down, he is still down by contact ( ie a receiver making a diving catch and a DB's little toe grazing the receiver on the way to the ground constituting a "downed" player) will re watch and let you know.

NorthHawk wrote:

RiverDog wrote:I'm not taking a shot at Earl, but had he not made the play on the ball that he did, our corner (Lane?) would have more than likely made the pick on that deflected pass. It's pretty frustrating when you have two guys in position but can't make the play.

That comes from everyone giving 100% effort. I'd rather see that than both DBs waiting for the other to make a play. The game prior to Sunday they had 3 players collide in the end zone going after the ball. It's something that's going to happen when you have a backfield full of ball hawks.

I agree, and I don't want Earl or anyone else to change the way they're playing. They are a ball hawking defenses, and as a rule, we're the beneficiary of all that flying around.

RiverDog wrote:

NorthHawk wrote:

RiverDog wrote:I'm not taking a shot at Earl, but had he not made the play on the ball that he did, our corner (Lane?) would have more than likely made the pick on that deflected pass. It's pretty frustrating when you have two guys in position but can't make the play.

That comes from everyone giving 100% effort. I'd rather see that than both DBs waiting for the other to make a play. The game prior to Sunday they had 3 players collide in the end zone going after the ball. It's something that's going to happen when you have a backfield full of ball hawks.

I agree, and I don't want Earl or anyone else to change the way they're playing. They are a ball hawking defenses, and as a rule, we're the beneficiary of all that flying around.

Can't argue with that. Much rather see the occasional popped up ball than to see everyone standing around.

Can't argue with that. Much rather see the occasional popped up ball than to see everyone standing around.

More times than not, it's the defense that will come up with a popped up ball. I know that my heart always skips a beat when it happens to our offense. That play Saturday was just plain ass dumb luck for the Saints. That pass was badly underthrown and not one, but two DB's had a chance to pick it off.

RiverDog wrote:

Can't argue with that. Much rather see the occasional popped up ball than to see everyone standing around.

More times than not, it's the defense that will come up with a popped up ball. I know that my heart always skips a beat when it happens to our offense. That play Saturday was just plain ass dumb luck for the Saints. That pass was badly underthrown and not one, but two DB's had a chance to pick it off.

Yep. Just to itemize the things that led to NO 'having a chance':

1. Kam drops one of the easiest picks he'll see in his career. Scientifically calculated* chance of that happening: 2%.
2. Not one, but TWO, defenders miss what would be among the top two or three easiest picks of either of their careers. Chance: 1%.
3. The two defenders missing the pick leads to a 51 yard completion. Chance: 0.5%.
4. Onside kick gives a tailor-made bounce to one of the surer sets of hands in the league, and it bounces off his chest right to a Saint. Chance: 0.5%.

Enter those numbers into your TI-84, run the standard "Luckiest Team in the NFL" algorithm, and you see the chances of all that happening is roughly one in a billion.

Take heart, Hawks fans. That game wasn't as close as it appeared.

*Meaning: pulled straight from my @ss.

burrrton wrote:

RiverDog wrote:

Can't argue with that. Much rather see the occasional popped up ball than to see everyone standing around.

More times than not, it's the defense that will come up with a popped up ball. I know that my heart always skips a beat when it happens to our offense. That play Saturday was just plain ass dumb luck for the Saints. That pass was badly underthrown and not one, but two DB's had a chance to pick it off.

Yep. Just to itemize the things that led to NO 'having a chance':

1. Kam drops one of the easiest picks he'll see in his career. Scientifically calculated* chance of that happening: 2%.
2. Not one, but TWO, defenders miss what would be among the top two or three easiest picks of either of their careers. Chance: 1%.
3. The two defenders missing the pick leads to a 51 yard completion. Chance: 0.5%.
4. Onside kick gives a tailor-made bounce to one of the surer sets of hands in the league, and it bounces off his chest right to a Saint. Chance: 0.5%.

Enter those numbers into your TI-84, run the standard "Luckiest Team in the NFL" algorithm, and you see the chances of all that happening is roughly one in a billion.

Take heart, Hawks fans. That game wasn't as close as it appeared.

*Meaning: pulled straight from my @ss.

Don't know if I agree with your numbers, but I sure agree with your sentiment. It really did seem like the breaks were often in NOs favor this game.

Don't know if I agree with your numbers

Hey, #SCIENCE.

It really did seem like the breaks were often in NOs favor this game.

To be clear, I'm not saying they were lucky the entire game- just illustrating that their big comeback, their big push that made this game a "nailbiter" when viewed from outside, depended on a number of *very* lucky bounces, any one of which you'll see once or twice in a season, and taken together is virtually once in a lifetime.

Sorry, I posted on my phone in response after rewatching the play and somehow it got lost somehow. Yes Bennett touched the RB, left elbow touched the ground, player down before fumble. That said it does not mean I wasn't pissed that they didn't bother to blow a whistle, if they do, Wagner does not get flagged and it is a "plus" play for the defense. Maybe the refs just swallowed them.....