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by **wait_a_sec** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:40 pm

http://espn.go.com/boston/story/_/id/12 ... nship-game

Let the distractions begin!

by **wait_a_sec** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:44 pm

Same as it ever was.

by **c_hawkbob** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:42 am

On the way to work this morning listened to Mort on the sports talk radio show saying that 11 of the 12 balls were under inflated by an average of 16% (about 2 psi) and that the likely punishment would be draft choices. The host was saying that they should take away their entire 2015 draft.

IMO 11 of 12 balls altered 2 hours after being checked by league officials is no coincidence or defect, premeditation is unquestionable.

by **kalibane** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:10 am

Honestly I wouldn't be opposed to them being even harder on the Pats. Not because I think that the deflation of the balls had much of an effect on the outcome of the game but because the Patriots have systematically as a franchise tried to cross the line.

Because they are a repeat offender you have to send a message

by **Hawktawk** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:01 am

The Billacheat and Brady Brat *dynasty* will always have an asterisk next to it****************Habitual offender cheaters. Why not suspend Billacheat for the Super Bowl? Or Brady if he asked to have the balls deflated? I mean Payton lost a whole year over some unproven nefarious bounty pool....Goody will fold though, its Robert Kraft after all. What a friggin joke....
No matter how long Brady plays or Billacheat coaches people will always wonder what illegal thing they are doing to get an edge.

by **burrrton** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:09 am

I'm skeptical about this being intentional, although I admit I have no explanation.

However, how do we figure the ballboy could stand there with a needle and take 2# of air out of 11 'inspected' footballs without someone noticing? Are they stored in the locker room after inspection? Wouldn't the PSSSSSSSSSSSSSS happening over and over look suspicious to someone?

[edit]

Although, maybe 2# of air would come out in an instant ("psst" rather than "PSSSSSSSSSSSSSS"), and 11/12 rules out environmental factors, doesn't it?

by **Hawktawk** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:14 am

It amazes me that people are downplaying the deflated balls. A HOF qb who has said on tape he likes throwing balls with less air in them(the ones Gronk has spiked) had exactly that on a wet and windy day. It was a potentially huge advantage, not only in the passing game but with ball security in the run game. Having played the game I know when it is wet and cold a football is like a pointed slippery rock coming at you like a missile. It was a huge advantage and both Brady and Billacheat had to know. Liar liar pants on fire. Watching the ball boys and knowing what I know now they looked very suspicious in the way they were guarding the balls as well. This is every bit as heinous a violation as Spygate. Oh and BTW you wouldn't hear a PPSSST coming out of a ball at the Klink. Come on now.

by **burrrton** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:29 am

Oh and BTW you wouldn't hear a PPSSST coming out of a ball at the Klink.

Well, they weren't playing at the Clink, but I get your point.

We don't really disagree- I'm just not seeing the logistics as clearly.

by **Uppercut** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:40 am

Somehow the Seahawks will be blamed for this in the media at some point.

by **Distant Relative** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:47 am

NO Doubt in my mind that the Pats had those balls deflated. Those Ball did NOT deflate themselves. Also no way in the world the ball boy takes it upon himself to deflate those balls. I hope the League hands down a heavy punishment for this. Pats are cheaters period and you know what they say: they never prosper.

by **NorthHawk** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:51 am

Does each team play with the balls they supply or do they all go into a bin and then it's random when they are used?

by **burrrton** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:14 am

I've read in multiple places each team takes care of their own batch of footballs.

by **PasadenaHawk** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:19 am

This coming after the latest trick of last minute eligible/non-eligible receivers. Makes you wonder what other stunts these guys will try to get an edge.

by **c_hawkbob** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:20 am

The balls are checked by an official 2 hours before the game. I don't know this for certain but I'd bet these checks are not done on the sideline but are in some room somewhere out of the weather. After being checked they are returned to the teams. I reckon it'd be pretty easy to take a couple psi out of each ball (leaving one at full pressure of course in case they ask you for one to spot check) before they are brought out to the sideline.

by **Distant Relative** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:30 am

NorthHawk wrote:Does each team play with the balls they supply or do they all go into a bin and then it's random when they are used?

The balls are taken to the officials locker room usually 2 hours before game time but in this case it was 2:15 minutes before game time. Each team brings 12 of their own balls for throwing and the league supplies the kicking ball and manages those.

by **NorthHawk** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:36 am

What I'm getting at is are the balls marked for each team to use - meaning you only use the balls you supply or are they all used in random order and teams don't know which balls they might get?

by **Anthony** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:43 am

c_hawkbob wrote:On the way to work this morning listened to Mort on the sports talk radio show saying that 11 of the 12 balls were under inflated by an average of 16% (about 2 psi) and that the likely punishment would be draft choices. The host was saying that they should take away their entire 2015 draft.

IMO 11 of 12 balls altered 2 hours after being checked by league officials is no coincidence or defect, premeditation is unquestionable.

The really good part is it will for sure have the referees watching the Pats closely during the game

by **Distant Relative** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:44 am

From what I am gathering the teams use their own balls. In the article it states on of the players for Indy intercepted Brady twice in their last meeting and the player gave the ball to the equipment manager whom found the ball to be under inflated and brought it the attention of the league.

ESPN Sports Radio 810 in Kansas City reported that the Patriots' footballs were tested at the half, re-inflated at that time when they were found to be low, then put back in play for the second half and then tested again after the game. All of the balls the Colts used met standards, according to the report.

Under NFL rules, no alteration of the footballs is allowed once they are approved.

Troy Vincent, the league's senior executive vice president of football operations, told The Associated Press late Tuesday in response to this report that the "investigation is currently underway, and we're still awaiting findings." He told "Pro Football Talk with Mike Florio on NBC Sports Radio" earlier Tuesday that the NFL expected to wrap up its investigation in "two or three days."

Sources told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter on Wednesday that the Colts had concerns about underinflated balls after their regular-season game against the visiting Patriots on Nov. 16.

During that game, Colts safety Mike Adams twice intercepted Tom Brady and gave the balls to the Colts' equipment manager to save -- and both times there were concerns about the balls feeling underinflated, sources told Schefter.

by **NorthHawk** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:59 am

If teams only use the balls they supply, the NFL is setting itself up for problems.
The game is too big and there is too much money to let something so small, yet possibly significant influence the outcome.

In the case of the Colts game, I doubt it made a difference in the final outcome, but it might have made a difference in the point spread.

by **mykc14** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:19 pm

NorthHawk wrote:If teams only use the balls they supply, the NFL is setting itself up for problems.
The game is too big and there is too much money to let something so small, yet possibly significant influence the outcome.

In the case of the Colts game, I doubt it made a difference in the final outcome, but it might have made a difference in the point spread.

I think we can all agree on this, but I am sure this wasn't the first time this happened, in fact it probably happened the week before against the Raven, a game that was much more closely contended.

by **wait_a_sec** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:09 pm

https://www.youtube.com/embed/vd3D2gsPUR0

by **wait_a_sec** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:16 pm

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/blog ... ted-balls/

by **burrrton** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:24 pm

wait_a_sec wrote:http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/blog/2015/01/21/conan-proves-patriots-deflated-balls/

I lol'd.

by **HumanCockroach** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:22 pm

Google Spike Oneill's "flatest balls" parody, definitely worth a listen, that guy nails it everytime... ( sorry no link, on the KJR FB page, busy at work)

by **Hawktawk** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:32 pm

Id say Billacheat is like Nixon except Nixon won bigger and definitely didn't need to cheat to win. I'm not so sure about Brady and Billacheat. Maybe they needed every trick up their sleeve to win 3 SBs by 9 total points and get to 6.
Setting aside the gift that was the tuck rule it is widely suspected they filmed not only Rams signals but also their pre game practices prior to the SB squeaker.
2003 vs Carolina was their only truly impressive offensive performance in the big game.
2004 was the gimpy TO and the fat sloppy Mcnabb puking on the final drive and still a 3 point squeaker.

Then of course 18-1 in 2007 when the highest flying offense in the league lost to a rather average Giants team a week after the scandal broke.And why should anyone think they hadn't been doing that for 7 years straight until they got caught?
2011 same result as 2007. Now this year we have proof they tampered with balls at least once and really who knows for how long? In the Baltimore game they violated the spirit of the rules if not the actual rules with their bizarre substitution patterns and were very close to crossing the line in the colts game as well.Who knows what else they have been doing? I read a report that stated they may have employed Gillette Stadium locker room attendants to spy on visitors as well. Normally I would dismiss that but with these sleazeballs not so much.And for me the cherry on top was protecting and coddling a cold blooded killer Aaron Hernandez including Billacheat telling him to get a flop house after being made aware the guy was packing heat and was extremely paranoid. Hey whatever it takes to win,thats the Patriot way.They have blood on their hands, sorry.

Billacheat is paranoid and an absolutely dishonest POS. His act is going to catch up with him starting on Feb 1st.

by **RiverDog** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:19 pm

c_hawkbob wrote:On the way to work this morning listened to Mort on the sports talk radio show saying that 11 of the 12 balls were under inflated by an average of 16% (about 2 psi) and that the likely punishment would be draft choices. The host was saying that they should take away their entire 2015 draft.

IMO 11 of 12 balls altered 2 hours after being checked by league officials is no coincidence or defect, premeditation is unquestionable.

For the benefit of those that are younger than Cbob and myself, there was an incident in a game at New England vs. Miami that involved the Patriots sending a snowblower out onto the field to clear a spot for the Pat's field goal kicker for a game winning attempt, a service they did not provide for the visiting Dolphins. And if I am correct, there were accusations that the Pats used to water down their field to make it slower, and then of course, there was the Spygate scandal.

But this air pressure thing is trivial. The officials and the opposing team's center and quarterback all handled the game balls and so far as I know, none of them objected at the time or even since the story broke. Both teams had to play with the same ball. They do need to send them a message, but stripping them of draft choices goes way overboard. Unless they can prove that someone on the coaching staff was involved, they should let them off with a hefty fine. You have to make the punishment fit the crime.

by **mykc14** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:28 pm

RiverDog wrote:

But this air pressure thing is trivial. The officials and the opposing team's center and quarterback all handled the game balls and so far as I know, none of them objected at the time or even since the story broke. Both teams had to play with the same ball. They do need to send them a message, but stripping them of draft choices goes way overboard. Unless they can prove that someone on the coaching staff was involved, they should let them off with a hefty fine. You have to make the punishment fit the crime.

Each team uses their own balls on offense, they are not cycled through. When the Pats are on O they get 1 of their 12 pre-approved balls to start the series and the other 12 are cycled through. When the Colts were on O they got their 1 of their 12 approved game balls. Luck never handled the deflated balls.

by **RiverDog** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:52 pm

mykc14 wrote:Each team uses their own balls on offense, they are not cycled through. When the Pats are on O they get 1 of their 12 pre-approved balls to start the series and the other 12 are cycled through. When the Colts were on O they got their 1 of their 12 approved game balls. Luck never handled the deflated balls.

Thanks for the correction, mykc. That does make a difference, but unless they can prove the Pats management had something to do with it, I do not go along with the Draconian punishments.

by **Hawktawk** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:25 pm

RiverDog wrote:
For the benefit of those that are younger than Cbob and myself, there was an incident in a game at New England vs. Miami that involved the Patriots sending a snowblower out onto the field to clear a spot for the Pat's field goal kicker for a game winning attempt, a service they did not provide for the visiting Dolphins. And if I am correct, there were accusations that the Pats used to water down their field to make it slower, and then of course, there was the Spygate scandal.

But this air pressure thing is trivial. The officials and the opposing team's center and quarterback all handled the game balls and so far as I know, none of them objected at the time or even since the story broke. Both teams had to play with the same ball. They do need to send them a message, but stripping them of draft choices goes way overboard. Unless they can prove that someone on the coaching staff was involved, they should let them off with a hefty fine. You have to make the punishment fit the crime.

I'm 55 and remember that game well. I'm not sure it was a rule violation, just rude. Kind of like the 12s when the other team has the ball:-) I think you are minimizing this scandal RD.It is being reported that the Colts complained about the balls being under inflated after the last game as well but the NFL took no action.And come on RD,a ball that is 16% softer is a huge advantage, especially on a cold rainy day.Last year and in this years KC game the Pats had turnover-itis. Lately not so much.HMM The rule book states the balls may not be altered or tampered with in any way after the referee inspects them and it boggles the mind to believe they uniformly lost at least 2 PSI in less than 3 hrs. Its cheating pure and simple and I dont give a damn whether it really helped or not. People were making that same case about spy gate which was even more ridiculous as it likely went on for 7 seasons and 3 SB Titles. I have to question much of what they have accomplished.

by **RiverDog** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:47 pm

Hawktawk wrote:I'm 55 and remember that game well. I'm not sure it was a rule violation, just rude. Kind of like the 12s when the other team has the ball:-) I think you are minimizing this scandal RD.It is being reported that the Colts complained about the balls being under inflated after the last game as well but the NFL took no action.And come on RD,a ball that is 16% softer is a huge advantage, especially on a cold rainy day.Last year and in this years KC game the Pats had turnover-itis. Lately not so much.HMM The rule book states the balls may not be altered or tampered with in any way after the referee inspects them and it boggles the mind to believe they uniformly lost at least 2 PSI in less than 3 hrs. Its cheating pure and simple and I dont give a damn whether it really helped or not. People were making that same case about spy gate which was even more ridiculous as it likely went on for 7 seasons and 3 SB Titles. I have to question much of what they have accomplished.

I am beginning to be swayed towards your side on this, talk. I didn't realize that the teams had separate footballs. We'll have to wait and see how this all plays out.

You're right about the snowblower incident. There wasn't a lot of rules governing things like that back then. It was a pretty blatant attempt to influence the outcome of the game. It was an embarrassment to the league and caused them to implement some controls.

by **Hawktawk** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:04 pm

Madden was quoted a few hours ago as saying that if the balls were under-inflated it was almost certainly done at the request of Tom Brady as opposed to Billacheat. He made a lot of sense in the way he explained his reasoning. I dont have the link unfortunately. But if true its got to take a little luster off the crown doesn't it? If its proven true I think he should be suspended at some point.

by **HumanCockroach** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:18 am

I think you are minimizing this scandal RD.It is being reported that the Colts complained about the balls being under inflated after the last game as well but the NFL took no action

What the NFL knew and took no actions??? Not possible.....

by **monkey** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:04 am

Deflated balls?
Cialis can help!

by **Hawktawk** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:00 am

I caught a little bit of Billacheats press conference. Sounds like he is laying the blame for the flat balls squarely at the feet of Tom Terrific. Remarkable statement 10 days from a Super Bowl...

I think he's full of it. The league was already aware of the allegations weeks earlier and I have a hard time believing a coach as controlling and detail oriented had no knowledge.
But its like rats jumping off a sinking ship.I think Bill knows this one is going to put a world of hurt in someone's wallet and employment situation.

by **NorthHawk** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:22 am

I doubt the Head coach knew about it but maybe the QB coach might, however I think it would have been an agreement between Brady and the Ball boy to make the balls like he wants them. I'm sure he's paid well for a few minutes work.

I would think this will be another topic for the Competition Committee to make changes. How about they all use the same balls?

by **HumanCockroach** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:45 am

Bellichick might not of known, but if the way the handled "bounty gate" is an precursor, it doesn't matter much either..

by **RiverDog** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:56 am

Yea, I'm going to have to do some major back tracking on this. The more I read, the more I've become convinced that you guys are right. This is a big deal.

The balls were reportedly deflated by 2 psi, or 15% below the standard, which is a significant difference. Supposedly the 12 Patriot balls were tested at halftime, found to be below the standard, reinflated and put back in use for the second half. But another report says that there were apparently "issues" with most of the 12 originals so they replaced them with another 12 at halftime. The Pats themselves confirmed that the team had a total of 24 balls available. Why did they take the original 12 out of service? Were all 24 approved?

Concerns about the Pats under inflating game balls were apparently expressed way back in mid November and that those concerns were reported to the league. Tom Brady is on record as saying that he likes using underinflated balls.

As if the league didn't have enough headaches with the Ray Rice and Adrian Peterson scandals, and now this just before their crown jewel event.

by **Hawktown** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:27 am

The LOB will take care of their punishment!!!

Maybe Ryan will pretend to deflate the ball after another punter TD pass/run while pointing at Wilber (bill)?

by **NorthHawk** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:22 am

According to PFT, Brady and Manning were the driving force for the visiting teams to use their own balls.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... footballs/

One thing they could do is give them to the Referees to check, but after approved, leave them with the Refs for use during the game and not go back to the teams.
It would mean an official ball boy on each sideline (an emergency/backup Ref for playoff games, perhaps?), but nobody could tamper with the balls.

by **RiverDog** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:57 am

NorthHawk wrote:According to PFT, Brady and Manning were the driving force for the visiting teams to use their own balls.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... footballs/

One thing they could do is give them to the Referees to check, but after approved, leave them with the Refs for use during the game and not go back to the teams.
It would mean an official ball boy on each sideline (an emergency/backup Ref for playoff games, perhaps?), but nobody could tamper with the balls.

At some point, you have to trust that teams will behave in a sportsmanlike manner and dedicate themselves to the principle of fair play and not simply be motivated by the threat of punishment from the league. Personally, I don't want to see thousands of hired cops combing every inch of turf, inspecting stadiums to make sure they aren't piping in crowd noise, checking locker rooms for electronic surveillance, making sure communications aren't tapped, etc. This is a football game, not a war on terrorism.

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