Battle in Seattle for QB1

[mykc14]

He doesn't look mobile. His rushing stats are pedestrian. If we draft him, I'll root for him. But he doesn't look special to me.

Rushing stats for College QB's are tough to quantify because they take sacks away from their total rushing yards. An example would be Josh Allen who had 500 yards and 7 TDs as a junior and 200 and 5 TDs as a senior.. Trevor Lawrence had 200 yards rushing as a senior... Russell Wilson had 80 yards rushing as a senior... Mahomes had 280... CJ Stroud had 100 this year... Bryce Young 185- I could go on but I'm sure you get my point. Also, I get that he doesn't look special and he may be a total flop in the NFL, but he has an incredibly high ceiling. He's not playing on a loaded team with a college offense that will inflate his stats. He's not on the best team in a weak conference. He's playing on a team with very lot talent in the most difficult conference in the country.[/quote]

[Old but Slow]

Remember, the pick does not need to be a Mahomes or a superstar to be a success for us. If he can measure up to Geno in a year or so, then he will be a younger, cheaper option at that point. And, frankly, if the pick reached that level he would be considered almost a bust. The ceiling is much higher for the 4 guys mentioned most, and that is what we can hope for.

[Hawktawk]

If he

Remember, the pick does not need to be a Mahomes or a superstar to be a success for us. If he can measure up to Geno in a year or so, then he will be a younger, cheaper option at that point. And, frankly, if the pick reached that level he would be considered almost a bust. The ceiling is much higher for the 4 guys mentioned most, and that is what we can hope for.

Whaaaa?

30 TDs most in the conference , team record for yardage and completions. 79.8 completions led the league , 366 yards rushing . 9 wins despite 46 sacks , no defense , no run game many games .

And if a rook is “ at that level “ they are considered a bust “? if they draft one of these guys and they are as good as Geno in their second year I’ll be delighted as will John and Pete .
Statistically it’s far more likely they get smashed behind a weak line and get beat up and never be as good as Geno right now . Or if Levis is Allen on a stacked team he won’t have won a divisional in 5 years and will lead the league in turnovers with 18 and leave the field with his superstar receiver screaming in his face and leaving with smoke off the tires of his Lamborghini 5 minutes later .

What’s with the Geno bias ? Insulting

[NorthHawk]

If you want to look at stats, look at Geno the last half of the year.
His trend line was down significantly from the start and approached his normal productivity. Teams figured out what we are doing and what Geno's limitations are and began to effectively nullify his
game. Can Geno win a Super Bowl? Probably if everyone else around him is great, but assembling that type of talent will take 3 or 4 years at which he will be 36 or 37 and a different player than he was
last year.

If we expect to win the Super Bowl - and that's the goal of any team, not just making the playoffs, we have to get a QB of the future who has a much higher ceiling than Geno because the odds of getting
a stellar supporting caste is quite low. We need a QB who has the potential to make the big play when needed to take the next step - and to do it more than just once. Wilson had that quality and we got
a championship from it and I doubt anyone would compare Geno favorably to Wilson in his prime or even up to 2019/2020.

[Hawktawk]

Last I checked Mahomes had a 3 pick day vs Denver and almost lost late in the season .
JOSH ALLEN led the league in turnovers with 18 , 5 more than Geno and his play was the main reason they lost the divisional . He’s never won one . 1and done . Like sucky Seattle last 5 years . Trevor Lawrence threw 4 picks in a playoff game just like Russ in the 2014 NFC title game . He didn’t win that game but he sure lost the next one . Even in 2013 it was Richard Sherman making a heroic play on Crabtree or we’re home.

Russ opened the game with a fumble on our 20. Our d held them to 3 or we lose at the end . Other than super bowl 48 Russ didn’t carry the team in the playoffs many times as our 3-9 playoff record last 8 years shows although he did in the regular season many times .

Not saying this to make a bash russ argument thread . It’s just a fact. Both are great but if Brady is the luckiest qb in history Russ might be second .

Our line was terrible down the stretch and even our tackles wore down as we finished 27th in pass pro .
We had 3 games second half with no credible running back for 60 minutes . As I said he was sacked 46 times , third most in the league and pressured constantly .

I wonder how Dk and Lockett would feel watching a guy they love walk and be trying to catch passes from a rook throwing them into the safety and into the ground .

Russ wasn’t perfect but he was a rarity among rookies . The only rookie that started was Kenny Pickett . And only because high draft pick trashbiski failed at his 3rd stop .

From the previous draft only Mac Jones was a full time starter and he was benched at one point . Justin Fields was hurt a bunch running the ball on a 3 win team . Ooooo they get the first pick . Fields is Bryce young or CJ stroud . Levis might be a dynamic player or a busted up bust . Nobody wants to talk about these reality’s . Just Geno sucks down the stretch like a lot of more famous well paid guys

But you all think what you want . I hope Kyle Shanahan doesn’t pick him up with all that weaponry .

[mykc14]

Our line was terrible down the stretch and even our tackles wore down as we finished 27th in pass pro .
We had 3 games second half with no credible running back for 60 minutes . As I said he was sacked 46 times , third most in the league and pressured constantly .

I wonder how Dk and Lockett would feel watching a guy they love walk and be trying to catch passes from a rook throwing them into the safety and into the ground .


But you all think what you want . I hope Kyle Shanahan doesn’t pick him up with all that weaponry .

Our line was terrible... when our line was Terrible with Russ it was Russ's fault, but Geno isn't to blame?

3 Games with no run game... that happened to Russ all last year.

Sacked 46 times... when Russ was sacked a lot he was to blame for a lot of them.

Geno wasn't great down the stretch no matter how you want to manipulate the situation. Geno at over 30 million or a Rookie at 7? For me it's a pretty easy answer (although I would like to figure out a way to keep Geno for at least a year). The model for success in the NFL has been pretty clear- you can't pay your QB more than 13% of your cap and hope to be successful (unless he is Patrick Mahomes- and we'll see if he can actually win it. If he does he'll be the first QB since like 1996 to win it while eating up more than 13% of the cap). To keep Geno under that 13% number he'll have to be taking up less than 30 mill of our cap.

Get a cheap QB- surround them with talent!!

Also- DK and Lockette will be just fine as long as the team is winning.

[Old but Slow]

To be clear, I am not down on Geno, and it would be ideal if he were our starter for now, but in a couple of years, or so, we will benefit from a younger player. It seems difficult for some to accept spending a rare high pick on a player who will not be an immediate starter. The mistake, for me, is to overpay Geno and not have the resources to improve the defense and offensive line. If Geno gets offers in the $20m plus range, then move on, go with Lock as the bridge QB.

[RiverDog]

To be clear, I am not down on Geno, and it would be ideal if he were our starter for now, but in a couple of years, or so, we will benefit from a younger player. It seems difficult for some to accept spending a rare high pick on a player who will not be an immediate starter. The mistake, for me, is to overpay Geno and not have the resources to improve the defense and offensive line. If Geno gets offers in the $20m plus range, then move on, go with Lock as the bridge QB.

Just a reminder. Drew Lock is a UFA. Although I doubt that we'd ever get in a spending war with someone over his services, he's currently not on the roster.

My point is that if we decide not to bring Geno back, there are a lot of starting quarterbacks out there looking for a job and might be a better short-term option than Lock. If next season we find ourselves in a situation where we are competing for a title, I'd rather have a decent, experienced starter, someone like Mayfield or Carr.

[tarlhawk]

Just a reminder. Drew Lock is a UFA. Although I doubt that we'd ever get in a spending war with someone over his services, he's currently not on the roster.
My point is that if we decide not to bring Geno back, there are a lot of starting quarterbacks out there looking for a job and might be a better short-term option than Lock. If next season we find ourselves in a situation where we are competing for a title, I'd rather have a decent, experienced starter, someone like Mayfield or Carr.

At this point in time questions are many and answers are few...Drew Lock was already here as a result of our trade and Geno was added to be competition with a leg up on understanding the nuances of the players in camp...the locker room vibe...and ability to execute from Waldron's playbook. Good coaches understand from a team perspective stability and familiarity are strong complements to demonstrated skill sets. They were working with Lock but it never developed into a true competition and with both under contract Geno pulled ahead while Lock was close but ran "out of time" for ...he could see the "finish line" but he could also "see" Geno had already crossed it. They wanted Geno but a one year contract laced with a few incentives was not a desire to commit to a situation they had just escaped from with Russel wanting to take his contract burden to greener pastures. Mayfield and Carr are "known commodities" not instant plug and play special talents. Baker helped ticket sales for closing out the season but his real impact was limited in elevating the teams game play...even with the handicap of a crash course in the Ram's playbook.

The NFL QB has many elements seen and unseen that combine to spell "success"...personal frustration can quickly extend to a coaches frustration when everything isn't clicking. The "new" competition between Geno and Drew is a financial one and Seattle might want both without rolling the dice in a draft...but Geno knows the business end of NFL life will have the final "say".

[Hawktawk]

Just a reminder. Drew Lock is a UFA. Although I doubt that we'd ever get in a spending war with someone over his services, he's currently not on the roster.
My point is that if we decide not to bring Geno back, there are a lot of starting quarterbacks out there looking for a job and might be a better short-term option than Lock. If next season we find ourselves in a situation where we are competing for a title, I'd rather have a decent, experienced starter, someone like Mayfield or Carr.

At this point in time questions are many and answers are few...Drew Lock was already here as a result of our trade and Geno was added to be competition with a leg up on understanding the nuances of the players in camp...the locker room vibe...and ability to execute from Waldron's playbook. Good coaches understand from a team perspective stability and familiarity are strong complements to demonstrated skill sets. They were working with Lock but it never developed into a true competition and with both under contract Geno pulled ahead while Lock was close but ran "out of time" for ...he could see the "finish line" but he could also "see" Geno had already crossed it. They wanted Geno but a one year contract laced with a few incentives was not a desire to commit to a situation they had just escaped from with Russell wanting to take his contract burden to greener pastures. Mayfield and Carr are "known commodities" not instant plug and play special talents. Baker helped ticket sales for closing out the season but his real impact was limited in elevating the teams game play...even with the handicap of a crash course in the Ram's playbook.

The NFL QB has many elements seen and unseen that combine to spell "success"...personal frustration can quickly extend to a coaches frustration when everything isn't clicking. The "new" competition between Geno and Drew is a financial one and Seattle might want both without rolling the dice in a draft...but Geno knows the business end of NFL life will have the final "say".[/quote]

Seattle has stated they would like both QBs back. And I've said it many times Pete was effusive in his praise of Drew "swag moments in practice" Nipping at Genos heels in practice".
He mentioned system first, Drew second and Geno 3rd when discussing the QB situation.
I finally read an article saying what I've been saying "Are we overlooking Drew Lock?" I haven't been and according to Pete neither is he.

Drew went up in camp against a guy with 4 years on the roster and 13 quarters starting with a final start of 31-7 20-24 QBR of 138 2 TD passes and a rush TD. Tough to convince the coach not to run that guy out there again.
And almost nobody talks about Covid. Having had the crud I assure you there's no way he was physically OR MENTALLY ready to play NFL football. 10 months after my second bout I am still not myself physically. Its irritating hearing people say "well he couldn't beat out geno"

Pete does praise Geno too. For all the love for Geno everyone suggests they have the ridiculous suggestions of 15 or 20 per year will drive him off. Yeah his second half was down. Wound up having a tough game vs the 9ers after holding a halftime lead with 1 incompletion and a QBR over 130. Then another stellar drive into the red zone after a 7:45 trampling of our pathetic D before a flag and fumble ended the game.

But did you catch the 40 million Dak Prescott vs that same team? Geno led the conference in TDs and the league in completion #. Im as concerned as anyone whether his second half cool off is a trend or an anomaly. Some stuff was self inflicted such as game opening picks vs Carolina and Rams but a lot wasn't .

Geno didn't bail on clean pockets, probably stayed in too many dirty ones to tell the truth. Seems like everyone but Jalen Hurts and Brock Purdy and Joe Burrow seemed to tail off. I point out Josh Allen had 5 more turnovers even with Genos bad half .

It's a question mark but I think the answer is try to come to some sort of an agreement with Geno.But If it not realistic according to the going rate its a non starter that will p1$$ off Geno and will make it impossible to do after FA starts .
There's something like 14 teams with problems at QB.Geno wont be back if hes not signed before FA and Lock might not be either as a young guy with multiple years starting football games .

It's gonna be less expensive to offer fair compensation to Geno than let him hit FA assuming its what the FO wants. If teams like LA can find cap space for anyone 30 mil should be easy.

If Geno bails somewhere and someone makes a run at Lock we're in more trouble that anyone unless there's another Russell in this draft. And once again had we not had the LOB firmly in place that whole story in 2012 thru 14 would have been very different IMO. I see zero rationale to bring in Carr as his last second interceptions are legendary. He was benched for Stidham when he hit 15 picks in week 16 . He lost to Mayfields fabulous furious comeback that had everyone gaga. The he proved hes Baker Mayfield baking up another loss. We had a chance to get him for a song last year and anyone suggesting he should be here needs new glasses. As for Carr hes going to be Geno money so why not have the real thing unless you think Carrs better at this stage ?
Careful Seattle. Like Wyman said "its a lot easier to get worse at QB than better"

[RiverDog]

I'm not necessarily advocating that we bring in either Carr or Mayfield. I brought their names up simply because they are veteran quarterbacks that have started a lot of games, played a lot of football, and are available. There are others out there, ie Ryan, Wentz, etc, that will likely be looking for a team, but those two are the most notable.

But if we were to go that route, I would want them on a one year deal only. They'd be there just in case we happen to have a contending team and need a veteran QB or if our starter got injured, like what happened to the Niners this season.

[NorthHawk]

At #5 we have to get one of the best QBs of the last 2 drafts. That's the bottom line.
By the time we get better in all other phases of the game that will take us deep in the playoffs, we will need a QB that can make the big plays when we need them. Geno will be about 35 then and other
teams will have a large book on him. Add to it this last year might have been a one year exception in his career and we really can't afford to take that chance.
If we sign him to a big contract that slows down the needed talent accumulation maybe by a couple of years because we can't afford FA's and will lose some of our own valuable FAs as well.

I personally don't want to go the Rams route with little draft capital and a large salary base. It's designed for a one year all or nothing chance of things working out, but no sustained success of deep runs
in the playoffs.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

At #5 we have to get one of the best QBs of the last 2 drafts. That's the bottom line.
By the time we get better in all other phases of the game that will take us deep in the playoffs, we will need a QB that can make the big plays when we need them. Geno will be about 35 then and other
teams will have a large book on him. Add to it this last year might have been a one year exception in his career and we really can't afford to take that chance.
If we sign him to a big contract that slows down the needed talent accumulation maybe by a couple of years because we can't afford FA's and will lose some of our own valuable FAs as well.

I personally don't want to go the Rams route with little draft capital and a large salary base. It's designed for a one year all or nothing chance of things working out, but no sustained success of deep runs
in the playoffs.

Unless it's Stroud or Young, you don't pull that trigger on a QB at #5 overall, and you don't trade up to get one.

[NorthHawk]

Any of the top 4 would give us a chance to make another SB run and all 4 are better than last years offerings and may very well be better than next year.
We need to talent for the future and all 4 are capable of delivering at the highest level.

[Hawktawk]

Any of the top 4 would give us a chance to make another SB run and all 4 are better than last years offerings and may very well be better than next year.
We need to talent for the future and all 4 are capable of delivering at the highest level.

Statistically 10% of first Round QBs win 8 or more first year . You have no idea if any of these guys will win squat in the league .

[c_hawkbob]

At #5 we have to get one of the best QBs of the last 2 drafts. That's the bottom line.
By the time we get better in all other phases of the game that will take us deep in the playoffs, we will need a QB that can make the big plays when we need them. Geno will be about 35 then and other
teams will have a large book on him. Add to it this last year might have been a one year exception in his career and we really can't afford to take that chance.
If we sign him to a big contract that slows down the needed talent accumulation maybe by a couple of years because we can't afford FA's and will lose some of our own valuable FAs as well.

I personally don't want to go the Rams route with little draft capital and a large salary base. It's designed for a one year all or nothing chance of things working out, but no sustained success of deep runs
in the playoffs.

Unless it's Stroud or Young, you don't pull that trigger on a QB at #5 overall, and you don't trade up to get one.

I would say Stroud or Levis, but personally I'd rather see Will Anderson or Jalen Carter at #5 and maybe someone like Herndon Hooker at 20 if we still want a 1st round QB.

[Old but Slow]

Yes, none of this crop of QBs will work out, as we know that the draft is a crap shoot and there are no sure things. Got it. But, it must be remembered that there are no sure things with the existing roster, either. Geno, for example, is not a sure thing. He has done well, far better than anybody was projecting, and may be good into the future, but maybe not. A player like Al Woods could retire (no reason to suggest this), or an injury to Lockett, Walker (Penny), or Metcalf. Cross, Woolen or Lucas has a sophomore slump, or injury. It is all chancy.

Any player rated in the first round by the scouts is a very good player. Athletically it is an elite group. All have strengths and weaknesses, so it is futile for someone like us to judge who is better or best. Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one.

I have been adamant, prejudiced, hysteric, and more in my desire to see us draft a QB at #5. It has nothing to do with Geno or Lock. Having a pick in the top 5 is a rarity and should go to the most important position in sports (second only to first stick on my pool team): quarterback. In fact, I would likely take one if my current guy was Mahomes. Value, pure and simple. To keep or trade, there is no comparable value.

My opinion. I've got one. You can have yours. You are welcome.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Any of the top 4 would give us a chance to make another SB run and all 4 are better than last years offerings and may very well be better than next year.

Not inspiring a lot of confidence with that. Pickett went 20th over all; the next 3 went 74, 86, and 94.

We need to talent for the future and all 4 are capable of delivering at the highest level.

I don't have that level of confidence in Levis and Richardson. I don't think either belong in the 1st round. Maybe late second; more likely the 3rd round. We don't need a QB so badly that we need to reach in the 1st round.

[Hawktawk]

Watched some Levis film . He’s not an NFL starter at this point . Maybe he will be. I guess what makes these QBs even more eye candy is there doesn’t seem to be a sure thing defensive beast at 5 either . I saw an analysis there are 11 edge guys in the top 40 , only 3 noses , 3 QBs . 1 center in first round potentially not CHawk bobs guy . I have no names to put with it .
If I’m Pete and John and not convinced about anyone at 5 I lock up Geno and Lock and trade down a couple spots for a haul . Even with the 5th pick if you reach it’s a mistake . Geno qbot present . Lock qbotf . Build up the D and interior line .

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Yes, none of this crop of QBs will work out, as we know that the draft is a crap shoot and there are no sure things. Got it. But, it must be remembered that there are no sure things with the existing roster, either. Geno, for example, is not a sure thing. He has done well, far better than anybody was projecting, and may be good into the future, but maybe not. A player like Al Woods could retire (no reason to suggest this), or an injury to Lockett, Walker (Penny), or Metcalf. Cross, Woolen or Lucas has a sophomore slump, or injury. It is all chancy.

Any player rated in the first round by the scouts is a very good player. Athletically it is an elite group. All have strengths and weaknesses, so it is futile for someone like us to judge who is better or best. Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one.

I have been adamant, prejudiced, hysteric, and more in my desire to see us draft a QB at #5. It has nothing to do with Geno or Lock. Having a pick in the top 5 is a rarity and should go to the most important position in sports (second only to first stick on my pool team): quarterback. In fact, I would likely take one if my current guy was Mahomes. Value, pure and simple. To keep or trade, there is no comparable value.

My opinion. I've got one. You can have yours. You are welcome.

By this argument, if the best QB available at #5 is rated as a 3rd round pick, you pick him anyway at 5 overall.

[NorthHawk]

If Mahomes and Allen were in this draft you wouldn’t want either because they had bad last years and had a lot of interceptions their final year. You have to look at the total picture to see the ceiling. Unless of course you have no faith in our coaching staff.

[c_hawkbob]

Yes, none of this crop of QBs will work out, as we know that the draft is a crap shoot and there are no sure things. Got it. But, it must be remembered that there are no sure things with the existing roster, either. Geno, for example, is not a sure thing. He has done well, far better than anybody was projecting, and may be good into the future, but maybe not. A player like Al Woods could retire (no reason to suggest this), or an injury to Lockett, Walker (Penny), or Metcalf. Cross, Woolen or Lucas has a sophomore slump, or injury. It is all chancy.

Any player rated in the first round by the scouts is a very good player. Athletically it is an elite group. All have strengths and weaknesses, so it is futile for someone like us to judge who is better or best. Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one.

I have been adamant, prejudiced, hysteric, and more in my desire to see us draft a QB at #5. It has nothing to do with Geno or Lock. Having a pick in the top 5 is a rarity and should go to the most important position in sports (second only to first stick on my pool team): quarterback. In fact, I would likely take one if my current guy was Mahomes. Value, pure and simple. To keep or trade, there is no comparable value.

My opinion. I've got one. You can have yours. You are welcome.

By this argument, if the best QB available at #5 is rated as a 3rd round pick, you pick him anyway at 5 overall.

That's a pretty extreme contortion of his argument though, at least this year. This year there are st least 4 QB's out there, maybe as many a half dozen* worthy of our first pick. It's sound reasoning, even if I do like big uglies better.

*edited correction

[Old but Slow]

I am trying to recall if there has been a draft in which no quarterback is rated or taken in the first round. Anyone know?

[mykc14]

I am trying to recall if there has been a draft in which no quarterback is rated or taken in the first round. Anyone know?

Last year many experts had none of the QB's rated as 1st round prospects, but one was selected- Cody Pickett at #20... apparently it has happened 5 times since 1970 and the most recent was 1996. I would imagine it is pretty unlikely to happen again and last year probably is about as close as we are going to get.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

That's a pretty extreme contortion of his argument though, at least this year. This year there are st least 4 QB's out there, maybe as many a dozen worthy of our first pick. It's sound reasoning, even if I do like big uglies better.

His argument asserts that a QB pick is a value pick at 5th overall regardless. He goes so far as to say the rarity of a 5th overall pick means you have to go QB. I'm merely stating you don't if they aren't good enough. I don't believe there are more than 2 that warrant a first round pick. And maybe 12 worthy of a first round pick? Dubious. I would be very surprised to learn that there has ever been 12 first-round grade QBs in any draft; 4 is stretching it in this draft, and I wouldn't think there's ever been more than 4-6 with first round grades. I don't agree with the reasoning at all.

If Mahomes and Allen were in this draft you wouldn’t want either because they had bad last years and had a lot of interceptions their final year. You have to look at the total picture to see the ceiling. Unless of course you have no faith in our coaching staff.

Yes, I'd be wary of picking a QB who did poorly in his last year; that is, picking him 5th overall. Mahomes was a layup pick; you can make that one with a lot of confidence and not be blasted if it didn't. I probably wouldn't have drafted Allen at 7 overall and wouldn't feel it was much of an "I told you so" considering his collegiate career (big arm, physical guy, small school competition). I've watched Levis and Richardson play; I live in SEC country. Even in his 2021 year, he wasn't incredibly impressive against like competition. Richardson didn't wow either against like competition. That's not to say I have the inside track on how they'll turn out, but I have watched them play and my opinion is formed from that observation. I'm not knocking them strictly from their stats. I'm not saying don't draft them; I am saying don't go 5th overall, and don't go in the first either. Late second maybe; 3rd or later preferred.

As for the coaching staff, I wasn't aware they had stated their opinion of Levis, Richardson, or any qb prospect at this point; unless you're assuming they see the same ceiling you do. They may or may not. Should they make the pick, at 5th or 20th overall, I wont' like it, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that their evaluation made it the right call and let it play out as it will. I don't have a case of myopia; I don't think any QBs but Young or Stroud are worth it in the first.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

I am trying to recall if there has been a draft in which no quarterback is rated or taken in the first round. Anyone know?

Last year many experts had none of the QB's rated as 1st round prospects, but one was selected- Cody Pickett at #20... apparently it has happened 5 times since 1970 and the most recent was 1996. I would imagine it is pretty unlikely to happen again and last year probably is about as close as we are going to get.

But plenty were mocking Willis and Ridder into the first with us QB-needy Seahawks taking Willis. It wasn't until draft day that that notion blew up.

[RiverDog]

Having a pick in the top 5 is a rarity and should go to the most important position in sports (second only to first stick on my pool team): quarterback. In fact, I would likely take one if my current guy was Mahomes. Value, pure and simple. To keep or trade, there is no comparable value.

By this argument, if the best QB available at #5 is rated as a 3rd round pick, you pick him anyway at 5 overall.

That's a pretty extreme contortion of his argument though, at least this year. This year there are st least 4 QB's out there, maybe as many a dozen worthy of our first pick. It's sound reasoning, even if I do like big uglies better.

I'm with Cbob and ObS on this one. As mykc pointed out, last season, when there was just one QB taken in the first round and none in the top 10 was an anomaly. The reality is that at #5 overall, there's going to be at least a couple of QB's available that are worth a #5 overall. Suggesting that blindly following ObS's philosophy could lead to selecting a QB rated as a 3rd rounder is a nonsensical argument.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

His exact words are "it should go to the most important position in sports: quarterback". He didn't mention a thing about whether or not the QB is actually rated high enough to warrant that spot nor did he state that there are other positions worth that spot. OTs and DEs come to mind. I'd amend his statement to say "It should go to the most important position in sports: quarterback if the right guy is there." I can assume he meant this, but it would be just that. An assumption.

And my concern over such logic is you take a guy like Levis or Richardson (2 guys I consider to be 3rd round picks) because they are there and they are QBs and not because they rate that pick. A 5th overall doesn't mean you pick a QB; it means you pick the best guy for that pick.

[RiverDog]

His exact words are "it should go to the most important position in sports: quarterback". He didn't mention a thing about whether or not the QB is actually rated high enough to warrant that spot nor did he state that there are other positions worth that spot. OTs and DEs come to mind. I'd amend his statement to say "It should go to the most important position in sports: quarterback if the right guy is there." I can assume he meant this, but it would be just that. An assumption.

And my concern over such logic is you take a guy like Levis or Richardson (2 guys I consider to be 3rd round picks) because they are there and they are QBs and not because they rate that pick. A 5th overall doesn't mean you pick a QB; it means you pick the best guy for that pick.

My take on what ObS is saying is that the position a draftee plays matters. You're not going to take an offensive guard with the #5 overall no matter how good of a player he is or how badly you need a guard simply because the same player can be had at a much lower slot. Quarterback is the most heavily weighted position in the draft, so if you're in the market for a quarterback and one of the top 2 or 3 rated QB's are available, you take a shot even if he may not be the BPA. It's a risk/reward thing. The risk of a player going bust is roughly the same at every position, but the reward for a quarterback succeeding is much higher than that of a guard.

I haven't seen Levis (I saw some compare him to Jake Locker) and Richardson (compared to Cam Newton) play that much, but the worst I've heard about those two is that they could slip into the 2nd round. I don't know of any publication or analysis that has them rated as 3rd rounders.

[c_hawkbob]

His argument asserts that a QB pick is a value pick at 5th overall regardless. He goes so far as to say the rarity of a 5th overall pick means you have to go QB. I'm merely stating you don't if they aren't good enough. I don't believe there are more than 2 that warrant a first round pick. And maybe 12 worthy of a first round pick? Dubious. I would be very surprised to learn that there has ever been 12 first-round grade QBs in any draft; 4 is stretching it in this draft, and I wouldn't think there's ever been more than 4-6 with first round grades. I don't agree with the reasoning at all.

I actually meant to say half a dozen, don't know how I dropped th 'half' so I do agree there are not 12 first round worthy QB's this year, but ther are definitely 4 and perhaps 6: Bryce Young, CJ Stroud, Will Levis, Anthony Richardson and Hendon Hooker are all projected as first rounders by one publication or another and as we near the draft there's bound to be another contender or two emerge. My point is this year it is unrealistic to think we'd be stuck with a 3rd round talent as a #5 pick QB.

[Hawktawk]

CHawk bob”
His argument asserts that a QB pick is a value pick at 5th overall regardless. He goes so far as to say the rarity of a 5th overall pick means you have to go QB. I'm merely stating you don't if they aren't good enough. I don't believe there are more than 2 that warrant a first round pick. And maybe 12 worthy of a first round pick? Dubious. I would be very surprised to learn that there has ever been 12 first-round grade QBs in any draft; 4 is stretching it in this draft, and I wouldn't think there's ever been more than 4-6 with first round grades. I don't agree with the reasoning at all.[/quote]

I actually meant to say half a dozen, don't know how I dropped th 'half' so I do agree there are not 12 first round worthy QB's this year, but ther are definitely 4 and perhaps 6: Bryce Young, CJ Stroud, Will Levis, Anthony Richardson and Hendon Hooker are all projected as first rounders by one publication or another and as we near the draft there's bound to be another contender or two emerge. My point is this year it is unrealistic to think we'd be stuck with a 3rd round talent as a #5 pick QB.[/quote]

Are they all 6 that high in the draft because they are that good or because nearly half the league needs a quarterback ?

I keep hearing Mahomes and Allen prove this or that about who you have to draft . I’d add Burrow but he was as sure a pick as you ever see. A classic pocket passer with some wiggle and medicine ball. But let’s revisit Allen . Led league in turnovers . He played part of the year with an ulnar nerve injury but he runs wild and it costs him . Love the guy but he’s been one and done every year .

I think back to 12 “suck for Luck”. luck , RG3, Tannehill , cousins , Foles , Russ . Only Russ and Foles have a ring . 3 of the 4 first rounders are retired , none ever won a damn thing . Tannehill is a stiff that cost the Titans a shot at a deep run a year ago with 3 picks to spoil a 9 sack performance by his defense vs Burrow . Russel , the most unlikely became great , one of the best in the league . If we’re doing it through the draft I’d rather see it this way . We need defense and interior line , edge pressure .

[obiken]

I actually meant to say half a dozen, don't know how I dropped th 'half' so I do agree there are not 12 first round worthy QB's this year, but ther are definitely 4 and perhaps 6: Bryce Young, CJ Stroud, Will Levis, Anthony Richardson and Hendon Hooker are all projected as first rounders by one publication or another and as we near the draft there's bound to be another contender or two emerge. My point is this year it is unrealistic to think we'd be stuck with a 3rd round talent as a #5 pick QB.

Bob you as well as I do, that we say that every year and only 2 end up being good-great, the rest are varying degrees of bust. Stroud looks like a good prospect, but thats it to me.

[Old but Slow]

My position I have made clear, so I will leave it at that.

That said, the Senior Bowl is coming up, and we have dipped into that talent pool in the past, so it might be interesting. And then the combine and pro days will cause some adjustments in all the ratings. The early practices at the Senior Bowl has included a lot of positives in defensive linemen, some who are in the 340 plus range, and some that can run with tight ends (Keion White). Several promising linebackers, which was rated as a poor group earlier, but guys like WSUs Henley are getting noticed. Several wide receivers seem to be emerging, also.

Overall not a great draft, but plenty of talent to choose from all the way through.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

I actually meant to say half a dozen, don't know how I dropped th 'half' so I do agree there are not 12 first round worthy QB's this year, but ther are definitely 4 and perhaps 6: Bryce Young, CJ Stroud, Will Levis, Anthony Richardson and Hendon Hooker are all projected as first rounders by one publication or another and as we near the draft there's bound to be another contender or two emerge. My point is this year it is unrealistic to think we'd be stuck with a 3rd round talent as a #5 pick QB.

That makes more sense; I've seen the pundits say exactly what you're saying, but I don't agree that they are all first round projections. Stroud and Young are the only ones who belong in the 1st in my book.

Are they all 6 that high in the draft because they are that good or because nearly half the league needs a quarterback ?

This is what I'm worried about. My amateur opinion is that the next tier of QBs belong in the late 2nd at the earliest, early 3rd more likely.

[tarlhawk]

My take on this is its way too early to "settle" on guessing John and Pete's draft focus...but I do have a couple opinions.

1) Geno is in control...but only kinda. If the draft goes as pundits have it then Jalen Carter and Will Anderson will be gone (as immediate D-line disruptors with true impact) and both of the "worthy" (just my opinion) QB (Stroud and Young) will be lost either to "trade-ups" or two teams ahead of us with QB "needs". If that ends up the case (Come on...need more Levis hype!)...then John may move to trade down where the next best D-line impact is targeted...or further down where next best QB/3rd best D-line weapon resides. You have to have a willing trade partner to get real value in trading down.

2) If the Ravens do lure our QB coach (Dave Canales) away then two "problems" present themselves...Are the Ravens vested in a contract bid war for Geno's services? Is losing Canales going to have an impact on getting a more "developmental project" QB (who becomes 3rd best QB?) if Stroud and Young are indeed...gone? If Geno is gone and Drew Lock re-signs then Locks extension becomes the tell tale sign if this all occurs before the draft in late April...Go Hawks

[NorthHawk]

You are right. There are a lot of questions to be answered before the draft, but if we want to build toward the future that road goes through a top QB, not Geno Smith.
Geno is last year and maybe this year, but he isn't the long term answer, and we have to look down the road if we want to get to a SB.

[obiken]

You are right. There are a lot of questions to be answered before the draft, but if we want to build toward the future that road goes through a top QB, not Geno Smith.
Geno is last year and maybe this year, but he isn't the long term answer, and we have to look down the road if we want to get to a SB.

There was talk NH on News break, of Seattle being a destination for Carr. I think Right now that would be the best option of all. Not well however that Geno is only a year older than Derek, but Carr's numbers are way better than Geno's.

[Old but Slow]

Let's pay a lot of money to a quarterback and not worry about the defense? Is that the thinking? Okay, I'll go eat worms.

[obiken]

Let's pay a lot of money to a quarterback and not worry about the defense? Is that the thinking? Okay, I'll go eat worms.

I am not saying we pay them a boatload OBS but IF we can get them for 25-30 million wouldnt it be worth it.

[NorthHawk]

With our Cap space I don't see us paying a lot for a QB. We got rid of Wilson and freed up a bunch of salary only to use it all up again on another QB?
I'd rather have Geno on a much smaller AAV contract with a bigger guarantee and draft a young QB should one be available.